In His Name, The Most High
Peace upon muhammad and his household.

Controversy!
One of the areas where Shi'a is usually being misunderstood is on the infallibility of the prophets of God, Muhammad and his ahl al-bayt (the Imams).
Many believed and wrongly interpreted shi'a to have given the Imams Allah's deserved attributes. Only a Kafir can hold such a belief; for Allah has NO equal in anything! He is ABSOLUTE! Far from what we ascribe unto Him. The infallibility of Allah is ABSOLUTE while that of the prophet (s) and the Imams is Relative.

To even reason that He is 'infallible' is like not really doing justice to His being because "whatever you think of Allah, He is beyond that"~ (6th Imam Jafar sadiq -a.s-). Since no being can ever comprehend His Essence (dhatiLLAH), therefore, He introduce Himself through His Asmaul Husna (Attributes and names).

OUR BELIEF!
We believe ALL the prophets of God(a.s), the holy prophet Muhammad (saws) and the Imams of his ahl al-bayt (a.s) are constantly being guided by Allah (and have been given ilm al-Yaqeen -manifest evidence or knowledge) in their deeds, action (consciously or unconsciously), thought, speech etc therefore they are vis-a-vis free from mistakes or error (infallible). This belief is not peculiar to Shi'a alone for there exit bulk of main stream Sunni (esp. Sufi) who share this view as well.

OUR ARGUMENT!

1. Ways Of Shay'tan (satan)!

In sura Hijr chp. 15 vs 30-42 , Allah talks about how Shaytan envy Nabi Adam (a.s) and disobeyed Him as a result. Shaytan was evicted from the kingdom of Allah's mercy. He however ask for respite till the end of time and promised to misguide sons of Adam, ALL of them "illah ibadaka mukhlaseen" (Except the devoted servant of God among them).

Allah in return confirmed that he can never have dominion (sultan) over "this devoted servant of His".

With this verse and many of it, we believe that this "ibadaka mukhlaseen" whom satan cannot deceive or manipulate refer to no other than the prophets, Muhammad (saws) and the ahl al-bayt of Rasul (a.s). Imagine shaytan talked before they were even born.

2. IKHTIYAR (Free-will)!

"By the soul, And the proportion and order given to it;
And its enlightenment as to its wrong and its right;
Truly he succeeds That purifies it
And he fails That corrupts it " ~Qur'an chp 91 vs 7-10.

Human being is created perfect and choice is given to him controlled by his intellect and choose by his free-will. Sinning is by free-will and never coercion or predestined.

Prophets and ahl al-bayt (a.s), because of their close proximity and devoted service to Allah, have been granted lutf (grace) to over-power their desires and free-will. Not that they cannot sin but the manifest knowledge (ilm yakeen) and grace (lutf) given to them is so powerful that they could see whatever form an evil or indecency present itself. This door is open to anyone who solely dedicate his life for Allah.

3. VERSE OF PURIFICATION (al-Ahzab vs 33)

"...it is Allah's desire to remove from you RIJZ (blemishes), O AHL AL-BAYT, and to cleanse you with thorough purification"

ALL muffassir (Sunni or Shia alike) agreed on this verse to be honor for the household of the prophet (the ahl al-bayt).

They were so spiritually cleansed that ONLY these group represented Islam at the field of 'Mubahala' against the Christian ~Sura al-imran vs 59 - 61. MUBAHALA!!! (Meaning, implications etc is beyond this article).

These are tip of the ice-berg from among many evidences and argument to justify the Isma of the prophets, Muhammad and his ahl al-bayt (saws).

Verses which talks about "mistakes", "error" or "sin" of a particular prophet or others in the holy Qur'an cannot be explore here as this article might be too cumbersome.

Wa salam alaykum

Read.

May Allah guide us!

Although am as liberal as I can be, pls wat is the essence of promoting all this post to the frontpage.

Thot this was a secular forum.

show us something that will improve our lives.

if U are going to ban me pls dnt delete my post so pple can atleast see wat am being banned for.

may i ask why this (and other related posts) are on front page??



mtcheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew

Man made religion will never solve our problems!

@baba_eleko,
Amin thuma amin

@bebe2, @imsu.boy
This is a RELIGIOUS forum NOT SECULAR.
Just as life is by choice, the spiritual innate of man is also by choice whether to improve it or not.
This forum is a RELIGIOUS forum and I tend to improve my understanding of what I believe will lead to goodness in the hereafter for
NO IGNORANT WILL ENTER PARADISE!
I believe my choice should be respected and not criticized.
You are free to visit and comment on any forum you seems will improve your lifestyle.
I don't wanna see my muslim brethren outside and have an ill thought about him or her just because of different creed; therefore, we need to understand ourselves better amidst what causes division and schism among us.

@omoredia,
Yes you are right a man-made religion will never save our lives.
I am proud to be a Muslim, a follower of ISLAM whose source is God.
Unlike christianity whose name and 85% practice was through PAUL.
Sorry if I ever offend you but that's plain truth.

@op plz read only quran very well nd try to understand,cos r alittle bit confused!

Salaam alekum.ضصیبالبذمثوژغعهختذژتتلزذدنبژردتتاذاا

Al-Baqir:
@baba_eleko,
Amin thuma amin

@bebe2, @imsu.boy
This is a RELIGIOUS forum NOT SECULAR.
Just as life is by choice, the spiritual innate of man is also by choice whether to improve it or not.
This forum is a RELIGIOUS forum and I tend to improve my understanding of what I believe will lead to goodness in the hereafter for
NO IGNORANT WILL ENTER PARADISE!
I believe my choice should be respected and not criticized.
You are free to visit and comment on any forum you seems will improve your lifestyle.
I don't wanna see my muslim brethren outside and have an ill thought about him or her just because of different creed; therefore, we need to understand ourselves better amidst what causes division and schism among us.

@omoredia,
Yes you are right a man-made religion will never save our lives.
I am proud to be a Muslim, a follower of ISLAM whose source is God.
Unlike christianity whose name and 85% practice was through PAUL.
Sorry if I ever offend you but that's plain truth.

ok, from the last paragraph, i guess u want @omoredia to come back and argue, curse and fight u for saying christains are following paul?

why una like confrontation??

i hope he doesnt stoop to ur level

Please is Islam synonymous with Boko Haram?

@baqir pls fear Allah and don't spread the aqeedah of shia,u are not a scholar of quran,u don't know the sciences of the quran,what is the evidence for your statement where is the hadith to back it up,is that how prophet (SAW)translate the verses ,if no then who are you to contradict the prophet's statement.we need evidence from the hadith(authentic).

@Oladraz,
It is one thing to accuse for 'hatred' and its another thing to accuse wrongly and yet its another thing to challenge and yet its another thing to dialogue intellectually.

I don't rely mind you hating Shi'a (I have once did) but if you have any issues with those Quranic verses (arabic to translation) to (ahlu sunna) Tafsir and sahih hadith, kindly indicate.

Fierce stubbornness or Ignorancy won't help!

Jazaakalahu khairan, I appreciate your advice,ain't trying to show hatred to any sect in islam.all I ask from you is to quote the evidences.but I know no one can know more than Allah's messanger and his companions(radiallahu anihum) in this respect.

pls tell me where in qouran that solely supports terrorism cos am kinda confused Y all the terror attacks are attributed to muslims... tot we were taught in school that islam is a religion of peace or has it changed

So much for front page..
I'm tired of seeing this stuffs on fp..

I know this post might be hidden, but I think the mod/mods are bias..

.

flavin: pls tell me where in qouran that solely supports terrorism cos am kinda confused Y all the terror attacks are attributed to muslims... tot we were taught in school that islam is a religion of peace or has it changed

The same way a lost fish is attributed to the Rat..

Yeah, cos we all know about Rats' obsession with fish.

I can only pray 4 Allah 2 guide u aright. The prophet(P.B.U.H) has been reported 2 av said d@ His ummah will split in2 73 and only d ones who stay on d quran and sunnah will see jannah. Most people will ignore dis ur post nd rule it as useless, but @ least some of us who dont want u lost will try nd admonish u. There are many things wrong wit dis ur 'aqeeda'. Follow d quran nd sunnah and stop inventing Ideologies in d religion of Allah. Peace

dyfatai: I can only pray 4 Allah 2 guide u aright. The prophet(P.B.U.H) has been reported 2 av said d@ His ummah will split in2 73 and only d ones who stay on d quran and sunnah will see jannah. Most people will ignore dis ur post nd rule it as useless, but @ least some of us who dont want u lost will try nd admonish u. There are many things wrong wit dis ur 'aqeeda'. Follow d quran nd sunnah and stop inventing Ideologies in d religion of Allah. Peace

It is not enough to say things like this. People should post better teachings rather than just ignore and condemn.

The essence of this post on front page is this:

1. Are Prophets (AS) infallible?

2. If so, does Islam view it from Al-Baqir's point of view?

3. This is not about squabbling but about spreading knowledge.

4. If you say Al-Baqir is wrong, post knowledge with wisdom. He and others might learn.

I could have intervened earlier, but that might be perceived as trying to direct responses against the OP. Now, that he has had a feel of people's uncoached reactions to his post and ideology, let us make progress with knowledge, wisdom and respect.

What the shia believe

These are what the shia believe about their imams, Al-Kulaynî' al kafi says in the table of contents:

• The Imams have all of the knowledge that was given to the Prophets and the Angels.

• The Imams know when they will die and they only die at the time of their own choice.

• The Imams know all that was and all that is and all that may have been but was not; nothing is hidden from them.

• The Imams know all the revealed books in the languages that they were revealed.

• When Imams have the upper hand, they will judge as Prophet Dâwûd (David) used to do; they should not be questioned about the evidences of their judgments.

• None collected all the Qur’ân but the Imams.

• The only truth known to human beings is that which has been brought to them by the Imams, anything not coming directly from them is falsehood.

• The Earth is entirely in the hands of the Imam.

Sheikh Muhammad Ridâ Al-Mudhaffar says, "We believe the Imam, like the Prophet, must be free from all forms of corruption and vice, what is
apparent of them and what is concealed, whether committed deliberately or neglectfully, from the time of infancy until death. Likewise, an Imam must be free from absentmindedness, forgetfulness and error." (Muhammad Ridâ Al-Mudhaffar, `Aqâ’id Al-Imamîyah, 95.)

Al-Majlisî says, "We do not admit any difference between the concept of the Prophethood and that of the Imamate." (Al-Majlisî, Bihâr Al-Anwâr, 26:82; and Al-Kulaynî, Usûl Al-Kâfî, 21:260-263)

What Islam says

Everyone is prone to error. Making mistakes is part of being human.

The prophet says : And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Every son of Adam sins, and the best of those who sin are those who repent.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2499; classed as hasan by al-Albaani.


While the Prophets infallibly convey the Revelation, their infallibility does not extend beyond this. How many Prophets have been admonished by Allah, and on occasions corrected? Allah mildly reproved the Prophet in a well-known Chapter of the Qur’ân, saying:

"He [i.e. the Prophet] frowned and turned away - Because there came to him the blind man, [interrupting]. But what would make you perceive, [O Muhammad], that perhaps he might be purified – Or be reminded and the remembrance would benefit him? As for he who thinks himself without need, - To him you give attention. And not upon you [is any blame] if he will not be purified. But as for he who came to you striving [for knowledge] - While he fears [Allah], - From him you are distracted. No! Indeed, they [i.e. these verses] are a reminder ( Qur’ân 80:1-11.)


On another occasion, Allah tells Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him):

May Allah pardon you, [O Muhammad]; why did you give them permission [to remain behind]? [You should not have] until it was evident to you who were truthful and you knew [who were] the liars. (Qur’ân 9:43.)

Allah also says addressing the Prophet, "…while you concealed within yourself that which Allah is to disclose. And you feared the people, while Allah has more right that you fear Him…" (Qur’ân 33: 37.)

There are other examples in the Qur’ân which confirm the fact that Prophets' infallibly does not extend beyond conveying Revelation. An example of this is the verse that reads,

"[Noah] said, "My Lord, I seek refuge with You from asking that of which I have no knowledge. And unless You forgive me and have mercy upon me, I will be among the losers (Qur’ân 11: 47)

And in another verse Prophet Ibrâhîm (Abraham) says, "And Who I aspire that He will forgive me my sin on the Day of Recompense." (Qur’ân 26: 82.)

Allah also tells about Yûnus (Jonah), "And [mention] the man of the fish [i.e. Jonah], when he went off in anger and thought that We would not decree [anything] upon him. And he called out within the darknesses, “There is no deity except You; Exalted are You. Indeed, I have been of the wrongdoers." (Qur’ân 21: 87)

maclatunji:

It is not enough to say things like this. People should post better teachings rather than just ignore and condemn.

The essence of this post on front page is this:

1. Are Prophets (AS) infallible?

2. If so, does Islam view it from Al-Baqir's point of view?

3. This is not about squabbling but about spreading knowledge.

4. If you say Al-Baqir is wrong, post knowledge with wisdom. He and others might learn.

I could have intervened earlier, but that might be perceived as trying to direct responses against the OP. Now, that he has had a feel of people's uncoached reactions to his post and ideology, let us make progress with knowledge, wisdom and respect.

How is this spreading knowledge?

Do you know how many people read this, absorbed it and accepted it? It is not as if everyone can discern what is correct and what is not.. You know how these arguments degenerate..

flavin: pls tell me where in qouran that solely supports terrorism cos am kinda confused Y all the terror attacks are attributed to muslims... tot we were taught in school that islam is a religion of peace or has it changed

"All the terror attacks that have been over-explored" you should say
Hitler was not a muslim - he killed 6million people. Does that qualify as terror?
Mandela has never been a muslim. He was a terrorist until 2007.
The Tamil Tigers were never muslims - they killed by suicide bombing
Timothy McVeigh bombed govf office in Oklahoma. Your statement would be correct only if Mcveigh converted to Islam after he was executed
Andrew Stack who crashed his plane into a tx office in Texas was never a muslim
the ETA in Spain are not muslims
The NLFT converting Hindus by force into Christianity in India are not Muslims - of course they are Christians
The IRA are not muslims - infact they are christians
The US deliberately injected Guatemalans with syphilis as part of an experiment - is that terror or not?
US deliberately instigate crises in various countries to engineer regime change - many lives were lost thereby. Is that terror or not?
The Aum Shinrikyo in Japan are not muslims

maclatunji: Read.

Salaam alaykum,

I couldn't get your PM because I've discontinued that mailbox can you reply me through my gmail?

O Prophet! Why do you forbid (for yourself) that which Allah has allowed to you, seeking to please your wives? And Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

(Quran, 66:1)

Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he went astray.
Then his Lord chose him, and turned to him with forgiveness, and gave him guidance.

(Quran, 20:121-122)

…and he (Dawood, AS) sought forgiveness of his Lord, and he fell down prostrate and turned (to Allah) in repentance.
So We forgave him that, and verily, for him is a near access to Us, and a good place of (final) return

(Quran, 38:23-24)

He (Musa, AS) said: ‘My Lord! Verily, I have wronged myself, so forgive me.’ Then He (Allah) forgave him. Verily, He is the Oft-Forgiving, the Most Merciful.

(Quran, 28:16)

bebe2:


ok, from the last paragraph, i guess u want @omoredia to come back and argue, curse and fight u for saying christains are following paul?

why una like confrontation??

i hope he doesnt stoop to ur level

You are on point bro... It is totally of no use arguing with someone who apparently does not know how his religion came to be! castigation of Christianity and Christians is like denying the origin and very essence of Islam. "To avoid being banned, please ensure that your post is not offensive to any religion." Seun Osewa, what are you waiting for?! Ban the @op already!!!

BetaThings:

"All the terror attacks that have been over-explored" you should say
Hitler was not a muslim - he killed 6million people. Does that qualify as terror?
Mandela has never been a muslim. He was a terrorist until 2007.
The Tamil Tigers were never muslims - they killed by suicide bombing
Timothy McVeigh bombed govf office in Oklahoma. Your statement would be correct only if Mcveigh converted to Islam after he was executed
Andrew Stack who crashed his plane into a tx office in Texas was never a muslim
the ETA in Spain are not muslims
The NLFT converting Hindus by force into Christianity in India are not Muslims - of course they are Christians
The IRA are not muslims - infact they are christians
The US deliberately injected Guatemalans with syphilis as part of an experiment - is that terror or not?
US deliberately instigate crises in various countries to engineer regime change - many lives were lost thereby. Is that terror or not?
The Aum Shinrikyo in Japan are not muslims

You have not answered the question on acts of terrorism and Islam... At best, you only have succeeded in confusing the questioners even more! All you have mentioned are acts that are NOT faith-based. If you don't have answers for them, just keep mute and let things be. Just saying.

tunshe:

Salaam alaykum,

I couldn't get your PM because I've discontinued that mailbox can you reply me through my gmail?

I doubt that. That was my third attempt at getting to you.

Just consider my second post here as instructive.

tbaba1234:

How is this spreading knowledge?

Do you know how many people read this, absorbed it and accepted it? It is not as if everyone can discern what is correct and what is not.. You know how these arguments degenerate..

Actually, I am convinced it is on several levels. It is my job to prevent "degeneration".

tbaba1234: What the shia believe

These are what the shia believe about their imams, Al-Kulaynî' al kafi says in the table of contents:

• The Imams have all of the knowledge that was given to the Prophets and the Angels.

• The Imams know when they will die and they only die at the time of their own choice.

• The Imams know all that was and all that is and all that may have been but was not; nothing is hidden from them.

• The Imams know all the revealed books in the languages that they were revealed.

• When Imams have the upper hand, they will judge as Prophet Dâwûd (David) used to do; they should not be questioned about the evidences of their judgments.

• None collected all the Qur’ân but the Imams.

• The only truth known to human beings is that which has been brought to them by the Imams, anything not coming directly from them is falsehood.

• The Earth is entirely in the hands of the Imam.

Sheikh Muhammad Ridâ Al-Mudhaffar says, "We believe the Imam, like the Prophet, must be free from all forms of corruption and vice, what is
apparent of them and what is concealed, whether committed deliberately or neglectfully, from the time of infancy until death. Likewise, an Imam must be free from absentmindedness, forgetfulness and error." (Muhammad Ridâ Al-Mudhaffar, `Aqâ’id Al-Imamîyah, 95.)

Al-Majlisî says, "We do not admit any difference between the concept of the Prophethood and that of the Imamate." (Al-Majlisî, Bihâr Al-Anwâr, 26:82; and Al-Kulaynî, Usûl Al-Kâfî, 21:260-263)

What Islam says

Everyone is prone to error. Making mistakes is part of being human.

The prophet says : And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Every son of Adam sins, and the best of those who sin are those who repent.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2499; classed as hasan by al-Albaani.


While the Prophets infallibly convey the Revelation, their infallibility does not extend beyond this. How many Prophets have been admonished by Allah, and on occasions corrected? Allah mildly reproved the Prophet in a well-known Chapter of the Qur’ân, saying:

"He [i.e. the Prophet] frowned and turned away - Because there came to him the blind man, [interrupting]. But what would make you perceive, [O Muhammad], that perhaps he might be purified – Or be reminded and the remembrance would benefit him? As for he who thinks himself without need, - To him you give attention. And not upon you [is any blame] if he will not be purified. But as for he who came to you striving [for knowledge] - While he fears [Allah], - From him you are distracted. No! Indeed, they [i.e. these verses] are a reminder ( Qur’ân 80:1-11.)


On another occasion, Allah tells Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him):

May Allah pardon you, [O Muhammad]; why did you give them permission [to remain behind]? [You should not have] until it was evident to you who were truthful and you knew [who were] the liars. (Qur’ân 9:43.)

Allah also says addressing the Prophet, "…while you concealed within yourself that which Allah is to disclose. And you feared the people, while Allah has more right that you fear Him…" (Qur’ân 33: 37.)

There are other examples in the Qur’ân which confirm the fact that Prophets' infallibly does not extend beyond conveying Revelation. An example of this is the verse that reads,

"[Noah] said, "My Lord, I seek refuge with You from asking that of which I have no knowledge. And unless You forgive me and have mercy upon me, I will be among the losers (Qur’ân 11: 47)

And in another verse Prophet Ibrâhîm (Abraham) says, "And Who I aspire that He will forgive me my sin on the Day of Recompense." (Qur’ân 26: 82.)

Allah also tells about Yûnus (Jonah), "And [mention] the man of the fish [i.e. Jonah], when he went off in anger and thought that We would not decree [anything] upon him. And he called out within the darknesses, “There is no deity except You; Exalted are You. Indeed, I have been of the wrongdoers." (Qur’ân 21: 87)

In addition, Islam has never placed people on a pedestal just because of the family to which they were born.

Yes, Muslims have to respect the Prophet's (SAW) family but know that Allah says in the Qur'an Suratul Hujurat Chapter 49 Verse 13:

O men! Behold, We have created you all out of
a male and a female, and have made you into
nations and tribes, so that you might come to
know one another. Verily, the noblest of you in the sight of God is the one who is most deeply conscious of Him. Behold, God is all-knowing, all-aware.

This verse clearly shows those whom God has placed on a pedestal. It doesn't say they are infallible.

Al-Baqir:


[size=18pt]Only a Kafir can hold such a belief;[/size] for Allah has NO equal in anything! He is ABSOLUTE! Far from what we ascribe unto Him.
Wa salam alaykum

this got me rocking in delight... infid l... proudly an infid l



If you feel you are a Kafir...like my post.... PROUDLY EnfideL!

http://politix.topix.com/homepage/7948-army-vet-sues-michigan-for-denying-him-infidel-license-plate