Let me begin by saying that this post is not in anyway aimed at portraying Islam and their Allah in a bad light.As a matter of fact i do envy the seriousness of muslims in the worship of Allah.
Now my understanding tells me that the truth should be attractive.It should be willingly accepted and should not be a source of fear.it should be a means to freedom.Any ear that hears the truth should be quick to respond.
Now muslim believe that Islam as a religion offers the truth to the world but what i have not come to understand is the reason why this truth must be enforced by human agent.why is there much use of force in islam.you must do as exactly as it is written even when you may not want to.failure to cover well could be detriment to a female muslim worshipper.leaving the religion to another religion is termed apostacy and is punishable by death and sometimes new converts to the religion is by force eg Usman Danfodio.
This clearly shows that there is excessive use of force in islam.so my simple question why use force when the truth should be attractive and freely accepted,sweet and a means to freedom?

All religions rely upon on the use of force otherwise their numbers would dwindle.

There isn't a religion or cult on this planet that does not encourage parents to compel their children to attend religious ceremonies that they may or may not understand. Many such parents resort to force to get this point across.

It is incredibly naive/dishonest to direct such a post at Islam, the major religions have all used violence to spread their message.

We are even lucky, Islam teaches it's followers to kill anybody who do not worship Allah. Let's pray they don't enforce this fully as commanded

datguru: We are even lucky, Islam teaches it's followers to kill anybody who do not worship Allah. Let's pray they don't enforce this fully as commanded

shot up don't say what you don't know and have no proofs of..if truly Islam teaches its follower to kill anybody who do not worship God (Allah) then why are you still alive ? are there no Muslims in your hoods.
Anyway, bad apple spoil good apple

lastmessenger: Let me begin by saying that this post is not in anyway aimed portraying Islam and their Allah in a bad light.As a matter of fact i do envy the seriousness of muslims in the worship of Allah.
Now my understanding tells me that the truth should be attractive.It should be willingly accepted and should not be a source of fear.it should be a means to freedom.Any ear that hears the truth should be quick to respond.
Now muslim believe that Islam as a religion offers the truth to the world but what i have not come to understand is the reason why this truth must be enforced by human agent.why is there much use of force in islam.you must do as exactly as it is written even when you may not want to.failure to cover well could be detriment to a female muslim worshing.leaving the religion to another religion is termed apostacy and is punishable by death and sometimes new converts to the religion is by force eg Usman Danfodio.
This clarely shows that there is excessive use of force in islam.so my simple question why use force when the truth should be attractive and freely accepted,sweet and a means to freedom?

hey !!!! SO CHRISTIANITY WASN'T FORCED ON OUR FORE FATHERS BY THE COLONIAL MASTERS...
OGA ABATE YOUR IRE ON ISLAM.

may u understand the truth about the existence of God and his Christ whom you have blasphemed over and over again.

That's why I'm saying we are lucky because they are not acting fully on these

Kingharzyz:

shot up don't say what you don't know and have no proofs of..if truly Islam teaches its follower to kill anybody who do not worship God (Allah) then why are you still alive ? are there no Muslims in your hoods.
Anyway, bad apple spoil good apple

Use force clearly show lack of truth. If it is the truth it is capable of surviving on its own.

Kingharzyz:

hey !!!! SO CHRISTIANITY WASN'T FORCED ON OUR FORE FATHERS BY THE COLONIAL MASTERS...
OGA ABATE YOUR IRE ON ISLAM.

I didnt know that the missionaries used force in converting people?please did they kill our fore fathers because i know that some of them where killed by those whom they were trying to convert.
Being a christain is a choice.nobody cut of your hand or flog u for breaking one commandment unlike in islam where people pay severly for failing to abide by one of rules.why should people be declared apostate and killed for leaving islam and converting to other religion.why should young girls be forced to marry against their wish?why should human agent be used in enforcing Allahs rule?the question is endless.
If islam hold a promise of showing the world the truth,then i question why everything is done by force in islam.you dare not ask questions or challenge authority even when you have a different opinion.once again,i maintain that truth should be liberating,it should bring peace to the mind,it should be accepted willingly,it should be attractive,every heart should yearn for the truth,it should remove fear from the mind truth should bring peace to the world and it should not be forced on people.

Just to drive home my point sunni rebels who newly declared the ISIL as a new caliphate comprising some part of iraq and syria has asked all the christains and other religious minorities to convert to islam before the end of saturday or face death.you now ask yourself how the truth could be forcefully imposed on people.if islam is the truth,then people be allowed to happily accept it as the truth and not by someone asking you to convert with a gun pointed at your head.

lastmessenger: Let me begin by saying that this post is not in anyway aimed at portraying Islam and their Allah in a bad light.

If you say so!

lastmessenger:
As a matter of fact i do envy the seriousness of muslims in the worship of Allah.

Really??

lastmessenger:
Now my understanding tells me that the truth should be attractive.It should be willingly accepted and should not be a source of fear.it should be a means to freedom.Any ear that hears the truth should be quick to respond.

Um...sorry to burst your bubbles but despite the fact that the truth is expected to be liberating, people can respond to the truth in various ways. For some the truth is not attractive, accepted and a source of fear. The quick response for some to what is true may be outright denial, rejection and some times they try to kill it before it gets out.

lastmessenger:
Now muslim believe that Islam as a religion offers the truth to the world but what i have not come to understand is the reason why this truth must be enforced by human agent.

Some times, what is true need to be enforced by humans. The right to life is true but it would make very little meaning if humans do not enforce it.

lastmessenger:
why is there much use of force in islam.you must do as exactly as it is written even when you may not want to.failure to cover well could be detriment to a female muslim worshipper.

One reason why we have those would probably be because for those states, the constitution is inspired by the Quran. If a people decide, without compulsion, to accept the tenets of the Quran as part of their constitution then they necessarily should abide by it.

lastmessenger:
leaving the religion to another religion is termed apostacy and is punishable by death and sometimes new converts to the religion is by force eg Usman Danfodio.

The apostasy thingy really looks bad but one small detail we consistently overlook is the reason behind that proclamation by Muhammad. When Islam started, there was no such rule or law. People were free to join Islam or reject it freely.

The law came at a time where Muslims became the prime targets for any Tom, D*ck and Mariah who does not like the growing, non-violent, influence of Muhammad. I believe the law was meant to achieve same purpose as that for espionage, more or less.

lastmessenger:
This clearly shows that there is excessive use of force in islam.so my simple question why use force when the truth should be attractive and freely accepted,sweet and a means to freedom?

I deviate a bit on that.

^^^
I agree with u a little bit on the need to enforce some truths especially when it directly harm the next human.Apart from this case no religious truth should be enforced by human agent.why should be people be forced to adhere or convert to religions they did not believe or accept.an example is the case of ISIL where the leader asked christains and other religious minories to convert to islam or face death.i mean people should be free to choose who or what to worship anywhere anytime.

^^^

Christianity was forced down the throat of our ancestors. Sometimes, indirect compulsions were used. Like refusal of access to medical facilities, education, etc.

Rarely can a religion stand the test of time if they don't use the fear-factor or moral suasion.

Why is Christianity still preaching "hell"?

^^
I doubt if the above is true but even if it true,i am also aware that some of the missionaries were killed in the process of trying to preach and spread christainity. in christainity.you are left to give in to fear-factor on your own free will.christains do not points gun and tell you to convert.
well wether they preach hell or not,people are still left with the right to choose to obey the bible or not.in christainity nobody says u must obey or you cannot join another religion.

when did usman Dan fodio force people to convert?trough out history there haved not been any forced mass convertion to Islam.

tartar9: when did usman Dan fodio force people to convert?trough out history there haved not been any forced mass convertion to Islam.

no need to argue. just google how usman danfodio forcefully converted northern nigeria to islam.he was on his to eastern nigeria when he heard that the white men has arrived in the north and he turned back.

lastmessenger:

^^
I doubt if the above is true but even if it true,i am also aware that some of the missionaries were killed in the process of trying to preach and spread christainity. in christainity.you are left to give in to fear-factor on your own free will.christains do not points gun and tell you to convert.
well wether they preach hell or not,people are still left with the right to choose to obey the bible or not.in christainity nobody says u must obey or you cannot join another religion.

Why are you bickering on Islam? You are into your religion by virtue of locality and upbringing. The same way, majority of those who are Muslims inherited it. Do you think that by casting aspersions on their religion, it helps validate yours?

You should go and research more on your-imposed-religion. Christianity has a lot of historical issues. No religion is without such issues. "Google" is your friend.

Stop your religious bigotry! You're feeling so proud of an imported religion. hmmm. smh4u

qstar:

Why are you bickering on Islam? You are into your religion by virtue of locality and upbringing. The same way, majority of those who are Muslims inherited it. Do you think that by casting aspersions on their religion, it helps validate yours?

You should go and research more on your-imposed-religion. Christianity has a lot of historical issues. No religion is without such issues. "Google" is your friend.

Stop your religious bigotry! You're feeling so proud of an imported religion. hmmm. smh4u

Thats the problem "intolerance".you are already showing anger by calling me names.even if i am to agree that christains once used force on people,the good thing is that christains no longer use force on anybody on the matter of religion.the world has seen civilization and peoples way of doing things are beginning to take a different shape but it seems islam is still lacking behind in trying to adapt to changes in the world.Bokoharam is still saying that western education is evil,they are killing innocent children,adopting underaged girls,there is still child marriage which normally happens against the wish of the child bride.my guy that came back from dubai told me that you dare not eat as a christain during the ramadan period.these are evidence showing that islam employs the use of force in its practices.
This is my point.if you have or claim to have the way of truth,then people should be allowed to embrace it without being forced.this is the key to world peace "religious tolerance"

^^^
I don't think i called you names. If so, point at it. Or you are accusing me falsely.

Anyway, have a nice day.

qstar:
^^^
I don't think i called you names. If so, point at it. Or you are accusing me falsely.

Anyway, have a nice day.

before you go,do you think forcing people to adhere to a particular religion is good? Pls be sincere

lastmessenger:
before you go,do you think forcing people to adhere to a particular religion is good? Pls be sincere

I am irreligious.
In a healthy society, we don't need religion to be civil. Civility is necessary for the growth and development of a society.

But, when you talk of Islam, also talk of Christianity. Do not be biased. You guys are more evangelical than the Muslims. Shouting at the top of your voices, binding and casting imaginary Devils.
Now, that's pathetic! When you tell them you are irreligious, they condemn you to "hell" and eternal torture by their deity.

qstar:

I am irreligious.
In a healthy society, we don't need religion to be civil. Civility is necessary for the growth and development of a society.

But, when you talk of Islam, also talk of Christianity. Do not be biased. You guys are more evangelical than the Muslims. Shouting at the top of your voices, binding and casting imaginary Devils.
Now, that's pathetic! When you tell them you are irreligious, they condemn you to "hell" and eternal torture by their deity.

Now my point is that you have been allowed to be irreligious and nobody is pointing a gun at your head to take your life.this is freedom and thats my emphasy.now its left for you to believe in hell or not.is not by force.do what you have to do with your life if only it will not be a harmful to the next fellow.this the choice that you may not be allowed in some countries whose main religion is islam.

lastmessenger:
Now my point is that you have been allowed to be irreligious and nobody is pointing a gun at your head to take your life.this is freedom and thats my emphasy.now its left for you to believe in hell or not.is not by force.do what you have to do with your life if only it will not be a harmful to the next fellow.this the choice that you may not be allowed in some countries whose main religion is islam.

Ok.

[quote author=lastmessenger]
no need to argue. just google how usman danfodio forcefully converted northern nigeria to islam.he was on his to eastern nigeria when he heard that the white men has arrived in the north and he turned back.[/Islam has been the main religion in north centuries before usman Dan fodio was even born.]

datguru: We are even lucky, Islam teaches it's followers to kill anybody who do not worship Allah. Let's pray they don't enforce this fully as commanded

Their restraint is not by choice. The defensive capabilities of other countries are keeping them in check. There is no chance of America or Britain paying the 'jizya' to Riyadh for being non Muslim nations. Btw, I hope that jizya isn't pronounced jizz ya. That would be odd. LOL.

qstar:

Why are you bickering on Islam? You are into your religion by virtue of locality and upbringing. The same way, majority of those who are Muslims inherited it. Do you think that by casting aspersions on their religion, it helps validate yours?

You should go and research more on your-imposed-religion. Christianity has a lot of historical issues. No religion is without such issues. "Google" is your friend.

Stop your religious bigotry! You're feeling so proud of an imported religion. hmmm. smh4u

Here are the biblical verses that buttresse your points:

JESUS ON UNBELIEVERS - Revelation 21:8
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars — their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

JESUS, ON NONBELIEVERS - John 3:18 (NIV)
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

JESUS, ON NONBELIEVERS - John 15:6 (KJV)
"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

PAUL ON BELIEVERS AND UNBELIEVERS - 2 Corinthians 6:14-15
"Believers must not commune with unbelievers. What fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness, light with darkness, believers with infidels?"

THE ULTIMATE BRIBE FOR BELIEF-
Even most of those that believe are offered a bribe to do so: John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

Christian religious wars and biblical support for violence and genocide:

... ... Little by little I will drive them out from before you, until you have increased and possess the land (Ex 23:23-33; see also Ex 32:25-29, where the sin of making the golden calf by the Israelites leads to the command: "Each of you kill your brother, your friend, and your neighbor".

But as for the towns of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, you must not let anything that breathes remain alive. You shall annihilate them - the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites ... - just as the Lord your God has commanded (Deut 20:16-17; see also Deut 7:2-16).

And at the seventh time, when the priests had blown the trumpets, Joshua said to the people, "Shout! For the Lord has given you the city [Jericho]. The city and all that is in it shall be devoted to the Lord for destruction. ... Then they devoted to destruction by the edge of the sword all in the city, both men and women, young and old, oxen, sheep, and donkeys (Joshua 6:16-21; cf. Heb 11:30-33, where a New Testament writer condones such passages in the Old Testament).

Thus says the Lord of hosts, "... Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey" (1 Sam 15:2-3). (Saul did not carry this command fully in that he spared some cattle as booty. For this action God rejected Saul as king of Israel (verses 8-9, 13-15, 26), and gave the kingdom to David, although even David killed only men and women in the conquered lands of other nations and spared the cattle, 1 Sam 27:8-9, cf. 2 Sam 8:2).

They did battle against Midian, as the Lord had commanded Moses, and killed every male (Num 31:7). Little by little I will drive them out from before you, until you have increased and possess the land (Ex 23:23-33; see also Ex 32:25-29, where the sin of making the golden calf by the Israelites leads to the command: "Each of you kill your brother, your friend, and your neighbor".

But as for the towns of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, you must not let anything that breathes remain alive. You shall annihilate them - the Hittites and the Amorites, the Canaanites ... - just as the Lord your God has commanded (Deut 20:16-17; see also Deut 7:2-16).

They did battle against Midian, as the Lord had commanded Moses, and killed every male (Num 31:7).

Continued for New Testament:

when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus (2 Thess. 1:7-. [Christ will destroy] every ruler and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet (1 Cor. 15:25).

But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to reign over them -- bring them here and slaughter them in my presence (Luke 19:27, not a saying of Jesus but of a character in a parable).

only hold fast to what you have until I come. To everyone who conquers (temptation to apostasy) and continues to do my works to the end, I will give authority over the nations; to rule them with an iron rod, as when clay pots are shattered -- even as I also received authority from my Father (Rev 2:25-27, cf. Psalm 2:8-9). And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron (Rev 12:5).

^^^does all the things you wrote up there justify the killing of a human being in the name of religion.this is my point,God is the creator and he has the right to condemn or justify and that right should be God's exclusive reserve .no human should force another into believing what he or she does not want to believe even if you are sure that your religion is the best.