Kindly read this scripture and tell us where you think the 12 disciples are now.

Jesus Comforts the Disciples
…2"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3"If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. 4"And you know the way where I am going." - John 14:-2-4

They are with Jesus in His father's kingdom, Heaven.

They are in d grave waiting for the 2nd coming and ressurection of saints for their reward

I'll be following this thread with keen interest. @ Frosbel, I usually find your posts interesting...

frosbel: Kindly read this scripture and tell us where you think the 12 disciples are now.

Jesus Comforts the Disciples
…2"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3"If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. 4"And you know the way where I am going." - John 14:-2-4

They are with us; living, breathing, and eating.

PastorOluT: They are with Jesus in His father's kingdom, Heaven.

But how can this be ?

Let's examine the circumstances in which Jesus made this quote :
This was during the Passover meal when Jesus had washed their feet and told them he was going to be betrayed and will be going away, they were deeply troubled and he went on to comfort them that he will come back at a later date and this time they will be together for good.( Read John 13 )

Now let's dissect this scripture :

1. He told them he was going away and where he was going they could not come - John 13:36-37
2. They were troubled for he said :
“Do not let your hearts be troubled." - John 14:1
3. He comforted them

Now let's further analyse point 3 :

i. He said his father had many many houses or mansions
ii. He was going to prepare a place for his followers , in this instance 12 of them ( Judas later replaced by Matthias ).
iii. After he prepares this place he will come back and take them to be with him forever.


A. Now considering that when Jesus died and resurrected , he went out of their sight from Mount Olives in the vicinity of Bethany, we are sure he had not come back for them at that point.

B. On the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was poured out, Jesus had also not come back to take them to be with him.


Question : If you say the disciples are now with Jesus, can you kindly tell us when this happened.


Thanks.

paulcr7: They are in d grave waiting for the 2nd coming and ressurection of saints for their reward

They're in paradise observing.

frosbel:

But how can this be ?

Let's examine the circumstances in which Jesus made this quote :
This was during the Passover meal when Jesus had washed their feet and told them he was going to be betrayed and will be going away, they were deeply troubled and he went on to comfort them that he will come back at a later date and this time they will be together for good.( Read John 13 )

Now let's dissect this scripture :

1. He told them he was going away and where he was going they could not come - John 13:36-37
2. They were troubled for he said :
“Do not let your hearts be troubled." - John 14:1
3. He comforted them

Now let's further analyse point 3 :

i. He said his father had many many houses or mansions
ii. He was going to prepare a place for his followers , in this instance 12 of them ( Judas later replaced by Matthias ).
iii. After he prepares this place he will come back and take them to be with him forever.


A. Now considering that when Jesus died and resurrected , he went out of their sight from Mount Olives in the vicinity of Bethany, we are sure he had not come back for them at that point.

B. On the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was poured out, Jesus had also not come back to take them to be with him.


Question : If you say the disciples are now with Jesus, can you kindly tell us when this happened.


Thanks.

This man if full of heresy laced contradictions.The disciples & apostles died ages ago.Will Jesus have to announce to you before he took them to his kingdom?....and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it at death Eccl.12:7.Why am I even replying this thread.

ByfireByfire:
This man if full of heresy laced contradictions.The disciples & apostles died ages ago.Will Jesus have to announce to you before he took them to his kingdom?....and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it at death Eccl.12:7.Why am I even replying this thread.

You miss road , is this how you will respond to new converts or true seekers ? SMH.

Answer the question and stop dodging, when did he come for his disciples , if you cant answer remain silent.

frosbel:

You miss road , is this how you will respond to new converts or true seekers ? SMH.

Answer the question and stop dodging, when did he come for his disciples , if you cant answer remain silent.

he came at the moment to their death.

Ubenedictus: he came at the moment to their death.

How can this be ?

- If they died will their spirits not go up to Jesus , why will he come for them ?
- Also they died at different times, did Jesus come for them individually or collectively

frosbel:

How can this be ?

- If they died will their spirits not go up to Jesus , why will he come for them ?
- Also they died at different times, did Jesus come for them individually or collectively

This is what happens when you read Scriptures with the light of the sun. What we all should ask ourselves is that what is the house of the Father?

Believe Jesus at your peril.
The man was full of lies and deceit.

frosbel:

But how can this be ?

Let's examine the circumstances in which Jesus made this quote :
This was during the Passover meal when Jesus had washed their feet and told them he was going to be betrayed and will be going away, they were deeply troubled and he went on to comfort them that he will come back at a later date and this time they will be together for good.( Read John 13 )

Now let's dissect this scripture :

1. He told them he was going away and where he was going they could not come - John 13:36-37
2. They were troubled for he said :
“Do not let your hearts be troubled." - John 14:1
3. He comforted them

Now let's further analyse point 3 :

i. He said his father had many many houses or mansions
ii. He was going to prepare a place for his followers , in this instance 12 of them ( Judas later replaced by Matthias ).
iii. After he prepares this place he will come back and take them to be with him forever.


A. Now considering that when Jesus died and resurrected , he went out of their sight from Mount Olives in the vicinity of Bethany, we are sure he had not come back for them at that point.

B. On the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was poured out, Jesus had also not come back to take them to be with him.


Question : If you say the disciples are now with Jesus, can you kindly tell us when this happened.


Thanks.

Sorry I won't be able to produce scriptures with references n quote now 'coz of what I am browsing with, but I know u won't doubt the paraphrased scriptures as a student of the bible.

Now the first thing to be understood in the discourse of Jesus with the disciples (starting from ch 13 as u rightly pointed out n all the others), Jesus wasn't just saying this to the disciples but to all that would be a disciple as he later pointed to Peter when he asked 'are u saying this to us only, n Jesus said not just u but to all. so the emphasis u made that He was coming for the 12 alone isn't accurate.

Now about the question, the scriptures u provided never proved Jesus had come for them. Though this can be seen in two forms. The first when a man (saved) dies his spirit goes up according to the scriptures, and he will be received by Jesus into the kingdom and not a cast away, so technically He had come for them (though this I agree is just a speculation but it isn't far from the truth of the scriptures). And the other one is (this is very scriptural), though man dies his spirit returns to God n the body is done away with but would be returned for on the last days. This is accurately shown when in the book of Jude Satan disputed with angel Michael over the body of Moses, it was very clear that the body of Moses isn't Moses in the actual sense but just his body n it will be needed for the spiritual change of body (spiritual body) at the endtime (probably discussion for another day). Moses is in Heaven which was the reason he manisfested to Jesus on the mountain of transfiguration (a dead man can't manifest u know, or?). To better understand what Jesus meant by coming back for them, u have to understand that man is a tripriatite being (as I have always told u before that man is created spirit,soul n body).

So we might say He had come back for them (though not by the suggestions u gave but after their death), also that is full coming back for them would be rapture when they come for their bodies 1&2 Thessalonians, but their spirit surely is with God n God is in Heaven or do u doubt that?.

AlfaSeltzer: Believe Jesus at your peril.
The man was full of lies and deceit.

Is your own prophet Muhammad any better?

frosbel: Kindly read this scripture and tell us where you think the 12 disciples are now.

Jesus Comforts the Disciples
…2"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3"If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. 4"And you know the way where I am going." - John 14:-2-4

I have a counter question for you

42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” (ESV)

Where did the man and Jesus go to be together?

LordReed:

I have a counter question for you

42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” (ESV)

Where did the man and Jesus go to be together?

bible intentional translation error , it should be :

Truly, I say to you today , you will be with me in Paradise.

Notice the coma after the today and not before.

Like I keep saying , people who sought control in the church have tried to alter the bible to suit their doctrines, it is no longer working.

The MAN is dead but Jesus will receive him when he comes to establish the final kingdom here on earth ( Paradise ).

frosbel:

bible intentional translation error , it should be :

Truly, I say to you today , you will be with me in Paradise.

Notice the coma after the today and not before.

Like I keep saying , people who sought control in the church have tried to alter the bible to suit their doctrines, it is no longer working.

The MAN is dead but Jesus will receive him when he comes to establish the final kingdom here on earth ( Paradise ).

How do you know the comma was moved?

frosbel:

bible intentional translation error , it should be :

Truly, I say to you today , you will be with me in Paradise.

Notice the coma after the today and not before.

Like I keep saying , people who sought control in the church have tried to alter the bible to suit their doctrines, it is no longer working.

The MAN is dead but Jesus will receive him when he comes to establish the final kingdom here on earth ( Paradise ).

How do you know the comma was moved?

[quote author=PastorOluT]

Now the first thing to be understood in the discourse of Jesus with the disciples (starting from ch 13 as u rightly pointed out n all the others), Jesus wasn't just saying this to the disciples but to all that would be a disciple as he later pointed to Peter when he asked 'are u saying this to us only, n Jesus said not just u but to all. so the emphasis u made that He was coming for the 12 alone isn't accurate.

This is scripture twisting par excellence.

I just read John 13 again to make sure I was not missing something and he was clearly talking to his disciples during the passover meal. Please stop forcing your interpretation into scripture, this is why there are so many errors today.

Now about the question, the scriptures u provided never proved Jesus had come for them. Though this can be seen in two forms. The first when a man (saved) dies his spirit goes up according to the scriptures, and he will be received by Jesus into the kingdom and not a cast away, so technically He had come for them (though this I agree is just a speculation but it isn't far from the truth of the scriptures).

No, the bible says ALL spirits return to God after death , both the wicked and righteous , so this spirit is not a person but the breath or life giving force of God.

"When you hide your face, they are terrified; when you take away their breath, they die and return to the dust." - Psalm 104:29

"If He should determine to do so, If He should gather to Himself His spirit and His breath, 15All flesh would perish together, And man would return to dust.…" - Job 34:14

"then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. " - Ecclesiastes 12:7

I repeat this spirit is not the person but the life that was given by God , please do not go beyond what it written.

Moses is in Heaven which was the reason he manisfested to Jesus on the mountain of transfiguration (a dead man can't manifest u know, or?).

This was clearly a vision !

"As they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, "Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man has risen from the dead." - Matthew 17:9

To better understand what Jesus meant by coming back for them, u have to understand that man is a tripriatite being (as I have always told u before that man is created spirit,soul n body).

MAN is a Living SOUL only because he has the life of GOD in his body. When MAN dies , he becomes a dead body the spirit returns to God.

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." - Genesis 2:7

So we might say He had come back for them (though not by the suggestions u gave but after their death), also that is full coming back for them would be rapture when they come for their bodies 1&2 Thessalonians, but their spirit surely is with God n God is in Heaven or do u doubt that?

Brother, you are all over the place and you are not making any sense.

The coming of Jesus is to resurrect the dead 100% , not 50% body.

LordReed:

How do you know the comma was moved?

How do you know the comma was moved?

Because I have done my research !

frosbel:

Because I have done my research !

OK please post links we can examine.

LordReed:

OK please post links we can examine.

I correct myself, the coma was not moved, it never existed , it was placed where it is today by the translators who wanted it to confirm to their own version of the truth.

Try this random site :

http://www.ucg.org/booklet/heaven-and-hell-what-does-bible-really-teach/heaven-gods-reward-righteous/thief-cross/

[quote author=frosbel][/quote]

I can see ow much sense u r making, u call itself a bible student n disclaim peter asked Jesus that question if He was talking to them or to all? I wasn't particularly quoting from the book of John, which I thought u will easily know as a student of the bible. Probably I overated u? I will provide the scriptural refrences to help ur comprehension since u read over again to be sure if u aren't missing anything.

U spoke about vision as if it has nothing to do with reality, now I know ur problem, u discard whatever ur mind can't comprhend. Rightly true a vision, but what was it all about, or was that his for a show?

Discussing with can be funny at times with ur level of comprehension, as I have always told u that it is only letter u know, and remember the bible says the letter kills while it is the spirit that gives life.

Hmm, so u have problem with my being everywhere?

frosbel:

I correct myself, the coma was not moved, it never existed , it was placed where it is today by the translators who wanted it to confirm to their own version of the truth.

Try this random site :

http://www.ucg.org/booklet/heaven-and-hell-what-does-bible-really-teach/heaven-gods-reward-righteous/thief-cross/

Thanks for pointing this out. Apparently many things will change if we examine the Greek texts as the Greek texts did not make use of punctuation as we do in English. As to the motivations of translators I cannot say this or that but one has to believe they did it in good faith so as to present the message to a different audience from the one the original was written to if not then all translations are suspect.

SMH... Seriously, I didnt blame the church fathers of the middle ages that tried to hid the bible from people like frosbel...

frosbel:

I correct myself, the coma was not moved, it never existed , it was placed where it is today by the translators who wanted it to confirm to their own version of the truth.

Try this random site :

http://www.ucg.org/booklet/heaven-and-hell-what-does-bible-really-teach/heaven-gods-reward-righteous/thief-cross/

What makes you think that the your research source is right and that the coma was delibrately placed there... You version of christianity reeks off "fishy-flightless-bird-type"....

@frosbel

Luke 12:41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

This is where I quoted from as obviously u don't know that, what I was saying was that when Jesus was speaking to the disciples He wasn't normally only speaking to them but also to all who will believe. So when He said He was coming back for them, it wasn't just them but all who will believe, this He also reiterated in His famous prayer John 17.

uboma:


Is your own prophet Muhammad any better?

No

PastorOluT:

I can see ow much sense u r making, u call itself a bible student n disclaim peter asked Jesus that question if He was talking to them or to all? I wasn't particularly quoting from the book of John, which I thought u will easily know as a student of the bible. Probably I overated u? I will provide the scriptural refrences to help ur comprehension since u read over again to be sure if u aren't missing anything.

U spoke about vision as if it has nothing to do with reality, now I know ur problem, u discard whatever ur mind can't comprhend. Rightly true a vision, but what was it all about, or was that his for a show?

Discussing with can be funny at times with ur level of comprehension, as I have always told u that it is only letter u know, and remember the bible says the letter kills while it is the spirit that gives life.

Hmm, so u have problem with my being everywhere?

A good example of dishonesty and scripture twisting.

I can't help you.

frosbel:

A good example of dishonesty and scripture twisting.

I can't help you.

Typical of frosbel, smile.

So u dint see the scripture I quoted for u? I will put it up again for all to see.

The scripture again for all to see who is reeally insincere, I really fear for ur soul frosbel.

PastorOluT: @frosbel

Luke 12:41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

This is where I quoted from as obviously u don't know that, what I was saying was that when Jesus was speaking to the disciples He wasn't normally only speaking to them but also to all who will believe. So when He said He was coming back for them, it wasn't just them but all who will believe, this He also reiterated in His famous prayer John 17.

^^^

Strange.

We were talking about John 14:-2-4, how did we suddenly jump to the gospel of Luke

You have wrenched the verse out of context by bringing in a totally unrelated scripture. But let me oblige you on this one. In Luke 12:41, Peter asked the question " is this parable to only us or ALL ", what was Jesus's reply ? I don't want to presuppose this scripture but Jesus never told him that this was for ALL if I want to play that game as well , or did he ?

Now coming back to John 14:2-4 which you seem to have missed, tell the house where exactly Jesus was talking to anyone else other than the disciples.

Also , you are yet to enlighten us on how Jesus has already come for them.

Was it ;

1. Individually after death
2. Collectively after the last one died.

Please stick to John 14 and stop beating around the bush.

Thanks.