Toyolad:

finofaya:

Stumped? I understand your confusion.

Toyolad: what do you mean by 'suppose there were nothing'?...nd what laws do you mean?


Pls pardon my dumbness,I jst wanna see things from your perspective,

lastmessenger: Stupidity stupidity stupidity

finofaya:

What's the insult for?

finofaya: For those who wonder why any thing exists at all, instead of nothing, and attribute the existence of anything at all to some sort of God or the other, I present to you a quick proof from the book Why Does The World Exist by Jim Holt which shows that there could not have been nothing, and that the question "why something rather than nothing" is therefore pointless and that God is not necessary, since there was no nothing for him to annihilate and bring forth existence. It reads;

"Suppose there were nothing. Then there would be no laws; for laws, after all, are something. If there were no laws, then everything would be permitted. If everything were permitted, then nothing would be forbidden. So if there were nothing, nothing would be forbidden. Thus nothing is self-forbidding.
Therefore, there must be something. QED."

Watertight.

finofaya: For those who wonder why any thing exists at all, instead of nothing, and attribute the existence of anything at all to some sort of God or the other, I present to you a quick proof from the book Why Does The World Exist by Jim Holt which shows that there could not have been nothing, and that the question "why something rather than nothing" is therefore pointless and that God is not necessary, since there was no nothing for him to annihilate and bring forth existence. It reads;

"Suppose there were nothing. Then there would be no laws; for laws, after all, are something. If there were no laws, then everything would be permitted. If everything were permitted, then nothing would be forbidden. So if there were nothing, nothing would be forbidden. Thus nothing is self-forbidding.
Therefore, there must be something. QED."

Watertight.

lastmessenger:
Ask Ogun

musKeeto:
This argument just states the obvious. There was never 'nothing'. Something had to be self-existent. As DeepSight would say, some could call it the Universe, others call it God.

finofaya:

Does it? Anyway, the crux of the argument is that nothing is self-forbidding. No magic or divinity or anything is required to cause anything to exist. Just this mindless, inanimate proposition. You could call it God, by why would you? There might be a God after all (as in a sentient one like Allah), but he simply isn't the cause of existence.

Toyolad: Never was there Nothing,cos being cannot come from non-being!..so as sir muskeeto had said earlier,you're just dancing round the obvious fact.

So tell us how the many things(in this universe) came out of this something that was.
Don't tell me you believe we and everything just came to be at ones.

finofaya:
That[b] he just sprang from nothingness [/b]with all these qualities in place?

musKeeto:
I'm atheist.

musKeeto:
You fail to grasp the import of your own argument.

finofaya:

What obvious fact? You know by extension, God's being has to come from another being, abi?

I don't know how the many things in the universe came to be. I don't know if it's God, tho HE seems an UNLIKELY CANDIDATE.

Imagine a God that is self existent, and conscious, and personal, and intelligent, and emotional, and all powerful and so much more. Isn't it a little too lucky for such a PERSON that he exists? That he just sprang from nothingness with all these qualities in place?

musKeeto:
This argument just states the obvious. There was never 'nothing'. Something had to be self-existent. As DeepSight would say, some call it the Universe, others call it God.

finofaya:

Does it? Anyway, the crux of the argument is that nothing is self-forbidding. No magic or divinity or anything is required to cause anything to exist. Just this mindless, inanimate proposition. You could call it God, by why would you? There might be a God after all (as in a sentient one like Allah), but he simply isn't the cause of existence.

"By their fruits you shall know them". Atheist always contradict their inner mind, they take solace in searching for the truth by reading books that confuses them the more.
Just do yourself a favour and read the Bible and sincerely ask God to reveal Himself to you. You will love the experience.

Toyolad: @capslocked,that LIKELY CANDIDATE that seems to have done the job is the GOD we're referring to.



Nt a person though(not all beings are persons,agree?)Of course,He is lucky if that's what you wanna know.and He has and still using the qualities He got frm luck to control the universe.

plaetton:

Exactly the point I always make, that consciousness, just like everything else, evolved in the universe, when the frequency of electromagnetic energy reached a mathematical threshold.
Thus, a consciousness did not beget existence, but aggregated from the sum of energy interactions within the universe.

If there is a god, a universal consciousness, then it too is the product of an evolving universe.

finofaya:

I said unlikely candidate. Which one is likely again?

Bible God is a person. Not all Gods have personhood. If luck has a role in God's existence, wouldn't you want to re examine how much reverence you give to him?

Toyolad: you don't get it do you?
If there's an UNLIKELY CANDIDATE then there must be a LIKELY CANDIDATE.

Bible God is a spirit, a supreme being and not a (physical) person.

If 'by luck' a president gets elected (perhaps he does and perhaps he does not deserve it) does that mean that he wouldn't be able to exercise his power? Does that mean he would have no say in his country? Does that mean that his people wouldn't give him reverence?


What you call LUCK is what I call his DIVINITY and his MYSTERY,some things will just remain mysteries to man no matter how much you search for His source of Power and Qualities, I'm not saying you shld give up searching but just get it...that the more you look;the less you see,the more knowledge you seek about how He got his qualities and how He came to be;the more Confused you get.(Which automatically leads you to conclude that He doesn't exist) and IF you're confused on what to believe in,you try to criticize His actions.

#All is Well

plaetton:

Meaningless.

If god is a mystery, then what makes you believe for sure that he exists?
If the mystery of god is a source of confusion, then does anyone bother to not only believe, but to worship, and even kill for the sake of a mystery?

If god is a mystery, then what is the need and purpose of religion?

finofaya:

Na Ogun send you abi? Mindless beast.

Toyolad: you don't get it do you?
If there's an UNLIKELY CANDIDATE then there must be a LIKELY CANDIDATE.

Bible God is a spirit, a supreme being and not a (physical) person.

If 'by luck' a president gets elected (perhaps he does and perhaps he does not deserve it) does that mean that he wouldn't be able to exercise his power? Does that mean he would have no say in his country? Does that mean that his people wouldn't give him reverence?


What you call LUCK is what I call his DIVINITY and his MYSTERY,some things will just remain mysteries to man no matter how much you search for His source of Power and Qualities, I'm not saying you shld give up searching but just get it...that the more you look;the less you see,the more knowledge you seek about how He got his qualities and how He came to be;the more Confused you get.(Which automatically leads you to conclude that He doesn't exist) and IF you're confused on what to believe in,you try to criticize His actions.

#All is Well

lastmessenger:
Only a beast post stupid thread on nairaland.