Ubenedictus:


as to your first paragraph, i got my rankin spot on, if thing should be accepted as intellectually sound simply because they came from the west they abortion and euthanasia should be listed. They are all product of the new western civilisation. Secondly, the idea that you can talk about something unless you have experienced it is baloney. I haven't killed someone, but i know murder is wrong. I don't need to experience it to make objective comment, i have empathy so i have a pretty good idea of how the other feel.


As to your second paragraph, marriage by definition is a union between a man and a woman, toward a communion of love and the procreation and upbring of kids. The term "gay marriage" is itself contradictory, marriage deal with complimentary sex by definition. Again I know homosexuality isn't all about sex, if you were attentive on the thread you would have noticed where i differentiated between the inclination and the act. And lastly, to correct and rebuke are all qualities that a good Christian should have.

Kay17:
@ubenedictus

I hardly understand how you able to separate an individual from his actions when his actions are what defines the individual's identity. Let me break down a bit, a true Christian proves his faith through his actions. His actions are his fruits by which he is known. Equally a sinner is known to be a sinner by his sins. So it is an abstract to love a person and then hate his actions; to persecute his crimes without persecuting his person. The Catholic Church in he past, has burnt heretics for their heresy, hence it is misplaced to love a heretic and burn his person for his heresy.

italo:


If your child steals from you, would you hate both him and his crime?

It seems like you Atheists just deliberately shut down a part of your brains when you want to criticize religion.

nobilis:


Holier-than-thou, sanctimonious Christian.
You know more about the bible than a doctor of theology in the person of Bishop Kaigama?
Or maybe you feel that Bishop Kaigama's bible doesn't contain the passage about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (herein after referred to as S&G).

But O you Christian, have you not read in the book of Ezekiel where the sins for which S&G were destroyed were listed? The list of their misdeeds is there in Ezekiel's prophecy. Check that list and tell me where homosexuality is on that list.

Secondly, Ezekiel also cautioned Israel that their misdeeds far surpassed those of S&G. Meaning that if you choose to believe (like u staunchly do) that S&G were destroyed because of homosexuality, Israel did far worse things.

All these are in your bible, dear Christian hypocrite-homophobe.

nobilis:


Euthanasia is not murder. Not all killing is murder. That is why a court differentiates manslaughter from murder. Euthanasia isn't murder neither is it even manslaughter. And I still reiterate, baloney or not, unless you've been in a particular situation, do not judge.

For example, unless you've had a family member who in what is medically known as permanent vegetative state, you won't understand. When you've spent all your money trying to sustain someone who is living off of machines and who has no hope of waking up, then you'll understand. Have you ever wondered why people who are in advanced stages of illness sign DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) forms in hospitals.

Have you ever been faced with the prospect of raising a rapist's or an armed robber's child. Has any of your female relatives been raped before and she got pregnant? Or has your wife been raped by an armed robber and she got pregnant for him? Until you've been in these situations, stop using the morality card. Never you judge these issues from the sidelines.

The Catholic Church will always try to save its face as the traditionalist that it is. Secondly, no Pope will want to be responsible for any such sweeping changes in the church's theology. That's why when anyone becomes pope, even if he was a liberal and progressive before, he becomes conservative after he becomes pope (Benedict XVI is a perfect example). Before any such changes occur, an ecumenical council will have to be the one to decide that. And make such changes. And such contemporary issues as contraception, euthanasia, abortion, etc, became prominent after the conclusion of Vatican Council II.

As for that definition of marriage you gave above, who gave such a definition. Pray tell.

Kay17:

I punish the child. If a man commits murder, the State punishes him with the death penalty! The murderer loses his own life for his actions.

italo:

If your child steals from you, would you hate both him and his crime?

kemqox:


And so do you. The only interest satan has about deceiving men to rebel against God is to destroy his creation works. And so do you guys that buy satan's idiosincresy to thwart procreation order are aggressively challenging God to his face!
I wonder what you guys gain if humanity to go into extinction?

Ubenedictus:
ignoring what stuff?

italo:


This post is riddled with fallacies and ignorant assumptions.

1. How is euthanasia not murder?

2. Do I have to be in a situation to know whether an action right or wrong? Wait until you're Pope then before you judge whether our Popes are right or wrong. Rubbish!

3. Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI was always conservative.

4. No Council can change a dot in the teachings of the Catholic Church.

ifeness:


Shut your trap noob!!! You no nothing but to quote from your useless book.

nobilis:


Holier-than-thou, sanctimonious Christian.
You know more about the bible than a doctor of theology in the person of Bishop Kaigama?
Or maybe you feel that Bishop Kaigama's bible doesn't contain the passage about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah (herein after referred to as S&G).

But O you Christian, have you not read in the book of Ezekiel where the sins for which S&G were destroyed were listed? The list of their misdeeds is there in Ezekiel's prophecy. Check that list and tell me where homosexuality is on that list.

Secondly, Ezekiel also cautioned Israel that their misdeeds far surpassed those of S&G. Meaning that if you choose to believe (like u staunchly do) that S&G were destroyed because of homosexuality, Israel did far worse things.

All these are in your bible, dear Christian hypocrite-homophobe.

masonkz:
I do hope this is true. And if it is, this man should be ready for the mouthlash from even his own people.


One thing I want to understand is: Did Jesus EVER propagate hate against gay people. If your answer remains no, then by all means, please shift to the left.

And if you dare show me any other passage of the bible that the hebrew men wrote, then I'll show you other verses of that same bible that MOST (if not all) Christians don't adhere to.


I'm gay. Beat it.

italo:





It's a "yes" or "no" question.

The kind that you dodge by all means to hide the giant flaws in your thinking.

GSKing:


Was Jesus queer? We don't know. But it is a possibility that cannot be ruled out. One version of St. Mark's gospel - which is still the subject of academic dispute - alludes to Jesus having a homosexual relationship with a youth he raised from the dead.
According to the US Biblical scholar, Morton Smith, of Columbia University, a fragment of manuscript he found at the Mar Saba monastery near Jerusalem in 1958, showed that the full text of St. Mark chapter 10 (between verses 34 and 35 in the standard version of the Bible) includes the
passage:

"And the youth, looking upon him (Jesus), loved him and beseeched that he might remain with him. And going out of the tomb, they went into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days, Jesus instructed him and, at evening, the youth came to him wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. [size=25pt] And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the Kingdom of
God". [/size]

The veracity of this manuscript is hotly contested by other Biblical scholars. This comes as no surprise. The revelation of a gay Jesus would undermine some of the most fundamental tenets of orthodox Christianity, including its rampant homophobia. But even if the text is genuine, does this ambiguous, elliptical passage offer evidence of Jesus's homosexuality? It is hard to say. The precise nature of the relationship between Christ and the youth is not spelled out. Sexual relations are suggested but not explicitly stated.

The Morton Smith document is, in fact, irrelevant to the vexed issue of Christ's sexual orientation.
What we can say for certain is that the standard, accepted Biblical narrative gives us no information at all about Jesus's sexuality. This absence of firm information does not, of course, mean that we can take it for granted that Christ was heterosexual. Far from it! The lack of information about his erotic inclinations begs more questions than it answers. The truth is that we simply don't know whether Jesus was straight, gay, bisexual or celibate. There is certainly no evidence for the Church's unspoken presumption that he was either heterosexual or devoid of carnal desires. Since nothing in the Bible points to Christ having erotic feelings for women, or relationships with the female sex, the possibility of him being gay cannot be discounted.

In the absence of any evidence - let alone proof - that Jesus was heterosexual, the theological basis of Church homophobia is all the more shaky and indefensible. How can established religion dare denounce homosexuality when the founder of its faith was himself a man of mysterious, unknown sexuality who could, for all we know, have been
homosexual?
The Bible tells us that Jesus was born a man and therefore presumably had male sexual feelings. It would have been more or less impossible, biologically, for him not to have an element of erotic arousal - even if only having the normal male response of waking with an erection.


www.petertatchell.net/religion/jesus.htm

More Info here:

www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=7&article=1431

www.en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_of_Jesus

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/apr/20/was-jesus-gay-probably

www.tektonics.org/gk/gayjesus.php

www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/born_gay.html

www.wouldjesusdiscriminate.org/biblical_evidence/gay_couple.html

www.bustedhalo.com/questionbox/what-did-jesus-have-to-say-about-homosexuality

www.thoughtcatalog.com/ronnie-hafmerb/2013/01/7-reasons-jesus-was-gay/

www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jegay.htm

kemqox:



You devil incarnates can be so fearless to dare even the Maker Of The Universe.
If some of us - the commonest men - with high burning libido of continual urge for sex can have a cause to stay away from conjugal affair at 34, 35 onwards till the right time, what about the one that can starve his flesh of nutrition for 40days and night consecutively?
The one who was founding an ages long ministery for the freedom and civility of mankind?

*****Sobbing*****

beryl04:


Trust me dear,the only humans that'll go into extinction is people that reasons like u.in no time ur type, 2geda with d accompanied mindset wudve been obsolete.
Deal with it sweerie!

GSKing:



Let it be known to all that today is #NationalComingOutDay

Happy October 11,

Happy Rainbow World,

Happy Queer People,

Happy Pride.

beryl04:




This was originally made for a homophobe in another thread but seeing as u, kemgox and d girl possess similar traits and characteristics ,it becomes apt for u: I don't worship that HATEFUL GOD OF YOURS. MY GOD loves ALL his creations. MY GOD hates NO ONE. However, human beings can and do hate, but not God. God is the root of all love, void of hate. I worship a LOVING God, NOT a God-fearing one who NEVER wrote the bible. Man wrote the bible, not God! Feel free to be scared into insanity all you want though by a book written 1,000 years ago which supports genocide/murder, incest, slavery and polygamy and which says you must be put to DEATH if you work on Sunday (EXODUS 35:2) or if females are non-virgins on their wedding night (DEUTERONOMY 22:20-21). Be brainwashed and scared into insanity all you want, but don't force me to believe in your "evil bible" because I'll not. We have freedom OF religion and freedom FROM religion in this country.

Ubenedictus:


it isn't double speak, it is simple theology, hate the sin, love the sinner.
I also think the arch bishop is very clear, he never said that nigeria should agree to gay marriage or decriminalise gay sex, that isn't the point he is making. He instead is saying that nobody should be arrested, harrassed or mistreated because he has a different "sexual orientation". The same way nobody can be harrassed simply for having an innate likeness for porn, stealing, eating, having sex...e.tc, nobody should be harrassed for his inclinations. The only things that can be criminalised is actions. The church is pretty clear on this, nobody should be discriminated against simply because he is attracted to the same sex. If he sins, then you should rebuke and correct him but his inclinations isn't a reason to condemn him.


It is found in the catholic catechism in a much cleaner way, in the very place homosexual sex is condemned and the inclination said to be disordered it clearly says inclination aren't basis for any kind on judgement in the matter. This is the important sections. For context it follows stuff like masturbation, fornication, pornoraphy, prostitution and rape.


CCC 2357 and 2358

Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of form through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psycholoical genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on sacred scripture, which represent the homosexual ACTS as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always decleared that "homosexual ACTS are intrinsically disordered". They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complimentarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is no neligible. This INCLINATION, which is objectively disordered, constitute for most of then a trial. they must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfil God's will in their lives and, if they are christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition"


anyone who really studies those statements will see that the acts is separated from the inclination, while the acts are always condemn, the inclination is simply disordered and the gay individual should be treated with acceptance and respect, compassion and sensivity. It isn't doubble speak it is pretty clear theology and it has nothing to do with the secularism in europe.

nikkyshyne:
Who are we to judge them?? Are we God?? He who is without sin, cast the first stone. We may as well punish fornicators and adulterers. They are all sexual sin.

kemqox:


What a waste. Sorry.

kemqox:


Kaigama's stand doesn't reflect catholic's nor the nigerian catholic bishop's stand. Besides, the news has not been confirmed of him, ok.
But then, my level of moral maturity cannot be compromised by whatsoever any Church leader believes is in his bible or theology that contradicts the PURE UNDILUTED will of God.
Not even you, that fearlessly level heinous blatant contradiction against prophet Ezekiel, just to justify your mischief.
An example of what prophets means when they weigh Israelite disobedience to other nations is: If a lay married man has extra-marital affair with another woman, people can bland it any simpler names like ''he made love to his secretary,'' ''he slept with his neighbour'' etc, but when it is any Reverend or other clergy tries it just once, people will shout ''SCANDAL!'' ''ATROCITY!'' ''SACRILAGE!'' etc.
That is to say that ''to whom more is given, much is expected!'' Who has ever prophesise to the sodomites then? But Israel abused series of prophets given to them.

You need to refer us to that baseless chapter of yours.
But before you do that, pay attention to this. God himself commanded that ''No man is to have se.xual relationship with another man, God HATES that.'' Leviticus 18:20. And for you to understand how much he hates it, which led to the destruction of Sodom, he sternly commanded further in Leviticus 20:13 that ''If a man has se.xual relationship with another man, they have done a DISGUSTING thing, and both shall be put to DEATH!'' according to GNB translation.

So, take it now that God ''disgustingly hates'' gay practices peculiarly, QED!

kemqox:


You sound like a les.bian.
You shall grow to understand the magnitude of threat this thing pose to straight marriages, and procreation.
Or should I pray you get married to a ho.mo man. Then you shall have a bitter taste of unhappy married life.

kemqox:


In other words, we should kiss the gay after they did it, serve them delicious food and drinks, tickle their chin and smilishly tell them; ''una for no do that thing na hahaha.''

Moral Painters twisting simple religious matters since 500BC. There is no amount or quality of white paint you put on a sepulcher that can make the rotten corps in it good enough to behold.

Look at the magnitude of mess you made of our doctrine. Tchewwww!

Even common mast.urbation has never be seen considerate enough to grant it venial status.

You shall know how much bad this thing is when your little boy of primary or secondary school age is subjected adult diaper usage in your house, his character changed girlish, delay or deny you opportunity of seeing your grand children. That will be when you shall really feel like...

kemqox:
You are the worst heretic liar ever.
Catholic church cannot take such stand against the rule in a country.
God punished them and their land in Sodom, so why wont we after all?

kemqox:



You devil incarnates can be so fearless to dare even the Maker Of The Universe.
If some of us - the commonest men - with high burning libido of continual urge for sex can have a cause to stay away from conjugal affair at 34, 35 onwards till the right time, what about the one that can starve his flesh of nutrition for 40days and night consecutively?
The one who was founding an ages long ministery for the freedom and civility of mankind?

*****Sobbing*****

kemqox:


You sound like a les.bian.
You shall grow to understand the magnitude of threat this thing pose to straight marriages, and procreation.
Or should I pray you get married to a ho.mo man. Then you shall have a bitter taste of unhappy married life.

Kay17:
@ubenedictus

I hardly understand how you able to separate an individual from his actions when his actions are what defines the individual's identity. Let me break down a bit, a true Christian proves his faith through his actions. His actions are his fruits by which he is known. Equally a sinner is known to be a sinner by his sins. So it is an abstract to love a person and then hate his actions; to persecute his crimes without persecuting his person. The Catholic Church in he past, has burnt heretics for their heresy, hence it is misplaced to love a heretic and burn his person for his heresy.