Re: Jihad - Is It Only For Defence? by PastorKun(m): 12:07pm On Jan 07, 2015 |
tartar9: they were told as their citizens to pay their tax and not forced to convert as you say. Taquiya! |
Re: Jihad - Is It Only For Defence? by tartar9(m): 12:07pm On Jan 07, 2015 |
usermane:
It is too bad you are yet to realize the problem with jizya from your law. You try equating jizya to tax and an alternative to zakat. No one with a sound understanding of jizya will accept that.
Zakat is paid for feeding the poor and needy, tax is paid for running state services but jizya is paid simply to avoid death. Remember Shari'ah gives non-Muslims 3 choices; convert, pay jizya or face death. Those who do not convert pay jizya to be spared of death, not for any other reason as in tax and zakat where the objective of paying is not to avert death. whats the difference?how many people pay tax from their heart.if they are given the option to pay tax or not how many do you think will even pay.people pay mainly to avoid government punishment even in many countries like china the punishment for tax evasion is death.it also applies to muslims the first major war in islam was against those muslims who refused to pay their zakat tax.like i said before the jizya tax is for not being in the military.as for your option of convert to islam,pay jizya or die could better be rephrased as;"if you convert to Islam you pay your zakat tax and compulsory military service,if you are a non-muslim you pay your little jizya tax for not being in the military,if you dont want to pay your tax better leave the Caliphate because the punishment for tax evasion is death" |
Re: Jihad - Is It Only For Defence? by azaino: 3:22pm On Jan 07, 2015 |
tartar9: they were told as their citizens to pay their tax and not forced to convert as you say. As citizens of who ? You mean ISIS is now their Government? A terrorist group? I ask again what and what were the options they were given cos what you mentioned here is just paying of tax to terrorist group. What are the "options" |
Re: Jihad - Is It Only For Defence? by Ifeann(f): 3:41pm On Mar 29, 2015 |
tartar9: Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim. The phenomenon of the idea that Jihad is only defensive is rapidly being spread amongst Muslim circles. It is without doubt a relatively new idea that seems to have appeared since the demise of the 'uthamani Khilafah and tends to come from the rhetoric of apologists and modernists who seem to have a problem with many key aspects of traditional Islamic 'Aqeedah and Islamic Law. The ironic thing is, those who are calling for a reform to how we should approach the Shariah are also declarers of following 'Traditional Islam'. However, what seems to be more apparent is that they find no qualms in adhering to interpretations of traditional Islamic law in non controversial and non - 'ideological' matters, but when matters of contemporary issues arise, such as Jihad, apostasy, the Islamic penal code, interfaith relations etc, new interpretations are called for. This is a serious problem we are facing and a short article will never be able to address this issue accordingly. Before a Muslim steps into the battlefield, he has already fought a great battle within himself against Satan- against his own desires and ambitions, his personal interests and inclinations, the interests of his own family and of his nation; against anything which is not from Islam; against every obstacle which comes into the way of worshipping Allah and the implementation of the Divine authority on earth, returning this authority to Allah and taking it away from the rebellious usurpers. Those who say that Islamic Jihad was merely for the defense of the 'home land of Islam' diminish the greatness of the Islamic way of life and consider it less important than their 'homeland'. This is not the Islamic point of view, and their view is a creation of modern age and is completely alien to Islamic consciousness. What is acceptable to Islamic consciousness is its belief, the way of life which this belief prescribes, and the society which lives according to this way of life. The soil of the homeland has, in itself, no value or weight. From the Islamic point of view, the only value which the soil can achieve is because on that soil Allah's authority is established and Allah's guidance is followed; and thus it becomes a fortress for the belief, a place for its way of life to be entitled the 'homeland of Islam', a centre for the movement for the total freedom of man. Of course, in that case the defense of the 'homeland of Islam' is the defense of the Islamic beliefs, the Islamic way of life, and the Islamic community. However, it's defense is not the ultimate objective of the Islamic movement of Jihad but it is a mean of establishing the Divine authority within it so that it becomes the headquarters for the movement of Islam, which is then to be carried throughout the earth to the whole of mankind, as the object of this religion is all humanity and its sphere of action is the whole earth. As we have described earlier, there are many practical obstacles in the establishing Allah's rule on earth, such as the power of state, the social system and traditions and, in general, the whole human environment. Islam uses force only to remove these obstacles so that there may not remain any wall between Islam and individual human beings, and so that it may address their hearts and minds after releasing them from these material obstacles, and then leave them free to choose to accept or reject it. We ought not to be deceived or embarrassed by the attacks of the Orientalists on the origin of Jihad, nor lose self-confidence under the pressure of present conditions and the weight of the great powers of the world to such an extent that we try to find reasons for Islamic Jihad outside the nature of this religion, and try to show that it was a defensive measure under temporary conditions. The need for Jihad remains, and will continue to remain, whether these conditions exist or not! 1 Like |
Re: Jihad - Is It Only For Defence? by Unbias: 9:17am On Mar 30, 2015 |
This is the second muslim I'll see on NL that is factual on traditional islam. Most NL muslims understand jihad as practised in the epoch of Muhammad and know how islam pushed her frontiers aggresively between 6th to say 11th century, some give hidden solidarity to anyone trying to enforce Islam or kill infidels but deny offensive jihad in public 2 Likes |
Re: Jihad - Is It Only For Defence? by PastorKun(m): 9:38am On Mar 30, 2015 |
Unbias: This is the second muslim I'll see on NL that is factual on traditional islam. Most NL muslims understand jihad as practised in the epoch of Muhammad and know how islam pushed her frontiers aggresively between 6th to say 11th century, some give hidden solidarity to anyone trying to enforce Islam or kill infidels but deny offensive jihad in public
Very true, we their religion encourages them to be barefaced hypocrites. 2 Likes |
Re: Jihad - Is It Only For Defence? by gunpoint(m): 4:01pm On May 20, 2016 |
OP Must everything in islam be on the threat of death? What happened to live and let leave? Unfortunately you are just speaking the truth. I know tooo many "secular" muslims who deny this, but islam is a bloodletting religion on Monday to Sunday. You are a fundamentalist by all measures. Shame. Waiting to see you face plastered all over the tv for blowing shit up soon. Assuming you are still alive that is 1 Like |
Re: Jihad - Is It Only For Defence? by Nobody: 2:59pm On May 22, 2016 |
gunpoint: [s]OP Must everything in islam be on the threat of death? What happened to live and let leave? Unfortunately you are just speaking the truth. I know tooo many "secular" muslims who deny this, but islam is a bloodletting religion on Monday to Sunday. You are a fundamentalist by all measures. Shame. Waiting to see you face plastered all over the tv for blowing shit up soon. Assuming you are still alive that is[/s] Did you read the topic with your b*tt-hole |
Re: Jihad - Is It Only For Defence? by tartar9(m): 10:36pm On Sep 24, 2017 |
k |
Re: Jihad - Is It Only For Defence? by shadeyinka(m): 8:13am On Sep 25, 2017 |
tartar9: so because they are jews the so-called Gods 'choosen people' they should avoid justice for their crimes.this is not like in the bloodthirsty bible that depicts a god ordering the rape and slaughter innocents including women and children and even animals! Fighting the Jews is almost synonymous with fighting against God's cause. Even in Islam 90% of all the prophets you claim you believe in are Jews. It doesn't sink down to Muslims that Jesus Himself was a Jew...and fro a religion where you are given rewards for killing a Jew, it must be satanic. |
Re: Jihad - Is It Only For Defence? by shadeyinka(m): 8:19am On Sep 25, 2017 |
tartar9: where did i support terrorism? Terrorism is infact haram,Jihad is far more glorious than that,just see what those kharijites terrorist haved reduced Jihad to,petty terrorism! You did not openly accent to terrorism, but you justified why jihad should be aggressively offensive (and not just defensive). All jihadists thread that same path. In an offensive war, how do you determine "a just cause" for an invasion? In the case of Islam, the rest of the world outside the Muslim umah belong to the "house of war". But I like you all the same. You spoke the truth about the relationship between Islam and Jihad. Any other view is un-islamic no matter how people want to make it look civil. |
Re: Jihad - Is It Only For Defence? by tartar9(m): 10:07pm On Jan 11, 2018 |
shadeyinka: [s]
Fighting the Jews is almost synonymous with fighting against God's cause. Even in Islam 90% of all the prophets you claim you believe in are Jews. It doesn't sink down to Muslims that Jesus Himself was a Jew...and fro a religion where you are given rewards for killing a Jew, it must be satanic.[/s] In summary,jews are so special they are free to commit any crime including murdering your god. Most of the Prophets aren't jews. |
Re: Jihad - Is It Only For Defence? by tartar9(m): 10:09pm On Jan 11, 2018 |
shadeyinka:
You did not openly accent to terrorism, but you justified why jihad should be aggressively offensive (and not just defensive). All jihadists thread that same path.
In an offensive war, how do you determine "a just cause" for an invasion?
In the case of Islam, the rest of the world outside the Muslim umah belong to the "house of war".
But I like you all the same. You spoke the truth about the relationship between Islam and Jihad. Any other view is un-islamic no matter how people want to make it look civil. You're correct 1 Like |
Re: Jihad - Is It Only For Defence? by shadeyinka(m): 10:58pm On Jan 11, 2018 |
tartar9:
In summary,jews are so special they are free to commit any crime including murdering your god.
Most of the Prophets aren't jews. You said that on your own How can they be justified for doing evil? Even Jesus condemned His own people by saying Matthew 23:34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: Luke 13:34O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! So, your insinuation is as wrong as your hatred for the same Jews. Answering your last mistake, if most of your prophets aren't Jewish, who are these? Arabs? Yakub Yusuf Dauda Sulaimon Yahaya Al Yasa Imran Musa Harun Isa Sakariyau Dhul-Kifl BTW, If you can double this number with non Jewish prophets then you speak the truth. Otherwise go learn more about substantiating assertions with facts and not just memorisations |
Re: Jihad - Is It Only For Defence? by tartar9(m): 11:22pm On Jan 11, 2018 |
shadeyinka:
You said that on your own How can they be justified for doing evil? Even Jesus condemned His own people by saying Matthew 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
So, your insinuation is as wrong as your hatred for the same Jews.
Answering your last mistake, if most of your prophets aren't Jewish, who are these? Arabs? Yakub Yusuf Dauda Sulaimon Yahaya Al Yasa Imran Musa Harun Isa Sakariyau Dhul-Kifl BTW,
If you can double this number with non Jewish prophets then you speak the truth. Otherwise go learn more about substantiating assertions with facts and not just memorisations " And We have sent a messenger to every nation: "You shall serve God and avoid evil." Some of them were guided by God, and some of them deserved to be misguided. So travel in the land, and see how the punishment was of those who denied" (Quran 16:36) " We sent Messengers before you. Some of them We have told you about and others We have not told you about. No Messenger can bring a Sign except with Allah´s permission. But when Allah´s command comes the matter will be decided with truth and then and there the liars will be lost" (Quran 40:78) |
Re: Jihad - Is It Only For Defence? by shadeyinka(m): 6:52am On Jan 12, 2018 |
tartar9:
" And We have sent a messenger to every nation: "You shall serve God and avoid evil." Some of them were guided by God, and some of them deserved to be misguided. So travel in the land, and see how the punishment was of those who denied" (Quran 16:36)
" We sent Messengers before you. Some of them We have told you about and others We have not told you about. No Messenger can bring a Sign except with Allah´s permission. But when Allah´s command comes the matter will be decided with truth and then and there the liars will be lost" (Quran 40:78) You didn't respond to my challenge. I assume you now know that MOST if the Prophets you know in Islam are Jews. I wasn't speaking of the ones you don't know. As per Quran16:36 you quoted, you know quite well that it isn't true (but you won't ask why) 1. If indeed God sent prophets to every tribe/nation in the world, then Islam should have come independently to several nations of the world. Or I Ned your explanation why no trace of Islam is found in the whole of Asia, Africa, Europe and America dating before Mohammed's Brand of Islam. 2. Mention the name of one prophet sent to any of the 238 tribes/nations of Nigeria. Or, is Sango and Ahmadioha one of the Islamic prophets? 3. The Romans and the Greeks have fairly recent ages AND they both have written histories. How come your so called prophets of Islam wrote nothing and nothing was documented about them? Think! |
Re: Jihad - Is It Only For Defence? by Kolanist(m): 7:12am On Jan 20, 2018 |
Ifeann:
Tartar9 is being honest here. Unlike the majority of Muslims he stated facts about the command to spread Islam via force and jihad. Here are some narrations, hadiths and quran verses to understand his mindset.
Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."
Tabari VIII:40 "The Messenger of God commanded that furrows should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence."
Quran 8:39. "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do."
Qur'an (9:29)-"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Sura 9:5. "When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them."
Bukhari 2:24: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah." Here are more verses QURAN 2:216-218, QURAN 9:122-123, QURAN 47:4, QURAN 2:190-193 .browse also~ http://www.chick.com/m/reading/tracts/readtract.asp?stk=1031 |