I have to come with the below meaning of the Definite article ‘THE’ because of mini discussion I had with some JWs about this issue in another thread.

THE determiner (PARTICULAR)
A1 used before nouns to refer to particular things or people that have ALREADY been talked about or are ALREADY known or that are in a situation where it is clear what is happening:
-I just bought a new shirt and some new shoes. The shirt was quite expensive, but the shoes weren't.
-Please would you pass the salt.
-I'll pick you up at the station.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/the?q=The

It is no doubt to any Biblical student that HOLY SPIRIT is sometimes refers to as The Spirit of God, God’s Spirit and The Spirit. In fact the common one in use is The Spirit though Biblical translators sometimes insert the word HOLY as an adjective to describe the attribute of The Spirit where the word HOLY does not appear in the original manuscript.

Apostle Paul in one of his letter to Corinthians gave this brilliant passage about The Holy spirit,

“3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. Such confidence we have through Christ before God…, He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?..., But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is THE SPIRIT, and where THE SPIRIT of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.” 2 Corin 3:3-18, (bold and capital mine) NIV

No doubt that Apostle Paul was talking about the ministerial works of The Holy spirit in the new covenant here which he also interchangeably used the Spirit of the living God and The Spirit (3x) for the Holy spirit.

The most astonish part is that in verse 17 & 18 he wrote “Now the Lord is THE SPIRIT and …which comes from the Lord, who is THE SPIRIT.”

But according to JWs the Lord in those verses is Jehovah (even though the word Jehovah never appeared in any Greek manuscripts) so in their translation they translated those two verses as “Now Jehovah is THE SPIRIT and …exactly as it is done by Jehovah THE SPIRIT.”

Back to the meaning of our definite article ‘THE’ above, THE SPIRIT in verse 17&18 has ALREADY been talked about/known from the preceding verses which means when verse 17 & 18 say “Jehovah is THE SPIRIT and, …exactly as it is done by Jehovah THE SPIRIT“ they’re referring to THE SPIRIT mentioned earlier which happened to be the Holy spirit/the Spirit of the Living God/The Spirit.

Where the problem lies now is, if God’s spirit/the Spirit of God/The Spirit (as anyone can be used for the Holy Spirit) is an ACTIVE FORCE/IMPERSONAL FORCE as JWs believe then this means that Jehovah is an ACTIVE FORCE/IMPERSONAL FORCE.

These whole articles boils down to a "thing". Your trying to tell us jehovah is a thing..an "idol".
I stand to be corrected

TrishaP:
These whole articles boils down to a "thing". Your trying to tell us jehovah is a thing..an "idol".
I stand to be corrected

Are you sure you understand the Op?

Emusan:


Are you sure you understand the Op?

That's why I asked for corrections.

TrishaP:

That's why I asked for corrections.

Ok! God is not a thing He is a person likewise the Holy spirit but Jehovah's witness argument is that Holy spirit is an ACTIVE/IMPERSONAL FORCE if that's the case 2 Corin 3:17&18 say Jehovah is THE SPIRIT, and THE SPIRIT here (according to rule of definite article 'THE') is pointing to something that has been mentioned earlier (which we can see from the preceding verses) happened to be the HOLY SPIRIT.

Do you understand now?

The problem the JW have wif the concept of CHrist and the Holy Ghost, is the same problem the muslims have. Men u need to read how Alisina the ex-muslim explained it.

Op, so how do you reconcile this verses from Gen 1:1-3 ? Focusing on verse 2

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God

---

moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Hope you can noticed the definite article in the underline words...

I have said it so many times that the holy spirit or the spirit like you said in your op is of God..not necessary another person this spirit proceeds from God who in his original nature is a Spirit.

Maamin:
Op, so how do you reconcile this verses from Gen 1:1-3 ? Focusing on verse 2

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God

---

moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Hope you can noticed the definite article in the underline words...

I have said it so many times that the holy spirit or the spirit like you said in your op is of God.. not necessary another person this spirit proceeds from God who in his original nature is a Spirit.

Genesis 1:1-3 is not a hard verse to understand and this is not the only place where Holy spirit was called THE SPIRIT OF GOD in the Bible.

Nothing wrong with the definite article 'THE' here as we know that it's pointing to something.

The bolded part is our focus, but let me start with you by asking you this what do you understand PERSON to mean?

But let stick to the OP.

Emusan:


Genesis 1:1-3 is not a hard verse to understand and this is not the only place where Holy spirit was called THE SPIRIT OF GOD in the Bible.

Nothing wrong with the definite article 'THE' here as we know that it's pointing to something.

The bolded part is our focus, but let me start with you by asking you this what do you understand PERSON to mean?

But let stick to the OP.

If the holy spirit is called the spirit of God how comes you end up referring to that spirit as a separate entity in the godhead(i.e the father is not the holy spirit,the holy spirit is not the father likewise the son) because the trinity doctrine claims co-equality in the godhead, yet we read that the holy spirit is of/from God the father. So your analogy contradict itself where you said "Jehovah is that spirit".

Maamin:
If the holy spirit is called the spirit of God how comes you end up referring to that spirit as a separate entity in the godhead(i.e the father is not the holy spirit, the holy spirit is not the father likewise the son) because the trinity doctrine claims co-equality in the godhead, yet we read that the holy spirit is of/from God the father. So your analogy contradict itself where you said "Jehovah is that spirit".

Everything in the universe is of/from God.

So when Bible called Holy spirit THE SPIRIT OF God means Holy spirit is different from other evil spirit, that's why the 'HOLY' always used as an adjective as being explained in the OP

It's so ridiculous to think because the Bible says The Spirit OF God means is not distinct from The Father.

So stick to the OP once again.

Looking at the scriptures u quoted, Unless we agree that the holy spirit is also the father. It is not possible to assume that the holy spirit is a person like God.
If the father is also the holy spirit . Then they are not two persons but rather one person exhibiting two personalities which goes contrary to the trinity doctrine which emphasises co equality of 3 persons . If the father is not the holy spirit , then how do we explain that the spirit is jehovah.

dolphinheart:
Looking at the scriptures u quoted, Unless we agree that the holy spirit is also the father. It is not possible to assume that the holy spirit is a person like God.
If the father is also the holy spirit . Then they are not two persons but rather one person exhibiting two personalities which goes contrary to the trinity doctrine which emphasises co equality of 3 persons . If the father is not the holy spirit , then how do we explain that the spirit is jehovah.

For a proper understanding of the relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Ghost here is the Nicene Creed (with the filioque clause) :

I believe in one God, the Father
Almighty, Maker of heaven and
earth, and of all things visible and
invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the
only-begotten Son of God,
begotten of the Father before all
worlds; God of God, Light of Light,
very God of very God; begotten,
not made, being of one substance
with the Father, by whom all
things were made.
Who, for us men for our salvation,
came down from heaven, and was
incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the
virgin Mary, and was made man;
and was crucified also for us
under Pontius Pilate; He suffered
and was buried; and the third day
He rose again, according to the
Scriptures; and ascended into
heaven, and sits on the right hand
of the Father; and He shall come
again, with glory, to judge the
quick and the dead; whose
kingdom shall have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Ghost,
the Lord and Giver of Life; who
proceeds from the Father [and the
Son]; who with the Father and the
Son together is worshipped and
glorified; who spoke by the
prophets.
And I believe one holy catholic and
apostolic Church. I acknowledge
one baptism for the remission of
sins; and I look for the
resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come

Papist:

For a proper understanding of the relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Ghost here is the Nicene Creed (with the filioque clause) :

I believe in one God, the Father
Almighty, Maker of heaven and
earth, and of all things visible and
invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the
only-begotten Son of God,
begotten of the Father before all
worlds; God of God, Light of Light,
very God of very God; begotten,
not made, being of one substance
with the Father, by whom all
things were made.
Who, for us men for our salvation,
came down from heaven, and was
incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the
virgin Mary, and was made man;
and was crucified also for us
under Pontius Pilate; He suffered
and was buried; and the third day
He rose again, according to the
Scriptures; and ascended into
heaven, and sits on the right hand
of the Father; and He shall come
again, with glory, to judge the
quick and the dead; whose
kingdom shall have no end.
And I believe in the Holy Ghost,
the Lord and Giver of Life; who
proceeds from the Father [and the
Son]; who with the Father and the
Son together is worshipped and
glorified; who spoke by the
prophets.
And I believe one holy catholic and
apostolic Church. I acknowledge
one baptism for the remission of
sins; and I look for the
resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come

What scripture passages back up ur belief in these creed?

dolphinheart:
Looking at the scriptures u quoted, Unless we agree that the holy spirit is also the father. [size=14pt]It is not possible to assume that the holy spirit is a person like God.[/size]
If the father is also the holy spirit . Then they are not two persons but rather one person exhibiting two personalities which goes contrary to the trinity doctrine which emphasises co equality of 3 persons . If the father is not the holy spirit , then how do we explain that the spirit is jehovah.

The problem you're having is to think the Father alone is YAHWEH in the Godhead.

The bolded part is wrong WE ARE NOT ASSUMED but how the Bible describes Holy spirit as a person, this verse is one of them.

dolphinheart:
What scripture passages back up ur belief in these creed?

Your own is to look at the creed and point out anywhere that is not scriptural.

Emusan:


Your own is to look at the creed and point out anywhere that is not scriptural.

Was about to ask him to also just point out what is unscriptural in the creed. So seconded.

Emusan:


The problem you're having is to think the Father alone is YAHWEH in the Godhead.

The bolded part is wrong WE ARE NOT ASSUMED but how the Bible describes Holy spirit as a person, this verse is one of them.

Well for starters, its good you have now agreed with the word jehovah used by the nwt in that verse.
Jehovah is the name of the father, the almighty God.no other person bears that name.

Emusan:


Your own is to look at the creed and point out anywhere that is not scriptural.

Quite convenient . You believe in the creed as truth from the bible. Prove it !

The Spirit, and the spirit of God, are the Holy Spirit of God.

the Spirit=the Holy Spirit
Mat_10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

the Spirit of God=the Holy Spirit
Rom_8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


the Holy Spirit of God=the Holy Spirit
Eph_4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
the Spirit of God=the Holy Spirit=the holy Spirit of God

did you notice the Spirit of God=the Spirit of Christ

armageddon is not a battle but a place, a place where God destroys the armies of the world that are coming against Jerusalem (yet future)
Rev 16:16 And he gathered the armies together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

which is the area in Israel known as har meddigo

John the Revelator calls that battle "the battle of that great day of God Almighty" rev 16:14
just two verses before he tells where it takes place

The Holy Spirit can't be an active force or an influence because Jesus said except he goes the Holy Spirit can't come. if he is an active force or influence why did Jesus say that.
2) the bible says
1 corinthians 3 : 16
Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLS IN YOU?

1 JOHN 4:4
YOU are of God little children and have overcome them because GREATER IS HE THAT IS IN YOU than he that is in the world.

This two verses point out the personality of the Spirit.

Acts 13: 2
as they ministered unto the Lord and fasted THE HOLY SPIRIT SAID separate unto ME barnabas and saul for the work I HAVE called them to do.

oprajo:
The Holy Spirit can't be an active force or an influence because Jesus said except he goes the Holy Spirit can't come. if he is an active force or influence why did Jesus say that.
2) the bible says
1 corinthians 3 : 16
Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that THE SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLS IN YOU?

1 JOHN 4:4
YOU are of God little children and have overcome them because GREATER IS HE THAT IS IN YOU than he that is in the world.

This two verses point out the personality of the Spirit.

Acts 13: 2
as they ministered unto the Lord and fasted THE HOLY SPIRIT SAID separate unto ME barnabas and saul for the work I HAVE called them to do.

I believe the answer to ur question lies in knowing what jesus, in relation to his followers , went to heaven to do . By knowing that, we will know why he had to go before the spirit is being poured upon them.

dolphinheart:


I believe the answer to ur question lies in knowing what jesus, in relation to his followers , went to heaven to do . By knowing that, we will know why he had to go before the spirit is being poured upon them.

what of acts 13:2?

oprajo:

what of acts 13:2?

The holy spirit is an active force that jehovah uses to perform different functions and this force exerts power. Some of those Anointed with the holy are said to be able to perform certain miraculous works . Some are said to be able to see visions, some giving power to endure certain trials while others are said to hear directives and instructions through the holy spirit. All these is part of the helper role that jesus said it will perform when it comes upon followers of jesus.
In acts 13:2 , the people who are there were ministering to jehovah when it was recorded that the holy spirit said. Does this not imply (in accordance with the other bible verses on Gods usage of the holy spirit ) that god used that force to impact what was said to them .
That the holy spirit speak does not imply that it is a person. A radio speaker saying understandable sounds does not mean that the radio is the originator of the sound , but someone(a person) is using the ability the radio has to transmit information, and anyone giving such oportunity can use that radio to do the same thing.

In not sure of the following bracketed statement but I still assume it is true unless contrary prove is being brought forward( Unlike jesus, angels , demons, jehovah, spirit creatures that the bible ascribed personality to , holy spirit has in no where in the scriptures been said to have a conversation with someone. other spirit creatures mentioned have had conversation /discussion with others and it is recorded .)

The holy spirit is being poured out and likened to a gift to different People and it is being used to anoint .
Luke 11:13 explains that God gives those who ask for it the holy spirit just like a father gives his children gifts. Surely this holy spirit is not a person.

The Holy Spirit is a person in the same sense that God the Father is a person, and the Lord Jesus Christ is a person.

The holy spirit acts as a person;
John14:26
26 “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit,
whom the Father will send in My name,
He will TEACH YOU all things, and bring
to your remembrance all that I said to
you.

The holy spirit guide into all truth,he speak and show;
John 16:13
13 “But when He, the Spirit of truth,
comes, He will guide you into all the
truth; for He will not speak on His own
initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

He Has The Attributes of A Person

"What constitutes the essentials of
personality? Usually three things - a
person must possess INTERLINGENC,
EMOTION, AND WILL. A thing lacks
these, but the Holy Spirit is not a
THING because He has intelligence,
emotions and will".

EMOTION;
Ephesians 4:30
30 Do not GRIEVE the Holy Spirit of God,
by whom you were sealed for the day
of redemption.
And the spirit loves christians>>>Romans 15:30
30 Now I urge you, BRETHREN, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the LOVE OF THE SPIRIT , to strive together with me in your prayers to God for me,

INTERLINGENCE;
1 Corinthians 2:10–11
10 1aFor to us God revealed them
through the Spirit; for the SPIRIT
SEARCHES all things, even the DEPTHS OF GOD.
11 For who among men knows the
thoughts of a man EXCEPT the spirit of
the man which is in him? Even so the
thoughts of God no one knows EXCEPT THE SPIRIT OF GOD.

WILL;
The spirit can give gift to the believers as He will.
1 Corinthians 12:11
11 But one and the same Spirit works all
these things, distributing to each one
individually just as He WILLS.

When Jesus condemned the blasphemy against the holy spirit, Jesus was treating Him(the holy spirit) as a PERSON .

Emusan. God bless you for this wonderful thread.

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Christians know Him

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Christians are in the faith, we know that Jesus Christ is in us
jw's don't know that Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit, that Jesus Christ is God, which makes them reprobate

reprobates
G96

ἀδόκιμος
adokimos
ad-ok'-ee-mos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate.
Total KJV occurrences: 8



Like Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Christianity died with the last of the apostles. They believe Christianity was not resurrected until their founder, Charles Taze Russell, began organizing the Watchtower Society in the 1870s.

Is the Jehovah's Witness religion Christian?
by Matt Slick

The answer to the question is, "No. It is not Christian." Like all non-Christian cults, the Jehovah's Witness' organization distorts the essential doctrines of Christianity. It denies the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and salvation by grace. These make it non-Christian. In addition, to support its erring doctrines, the Watchtower organization (which is the author and teacher of all official Jehovah's Witness' theology) has altered the Bible to make it agree with its changing and non-Christian teachings.

continue reading this short and informative article
https://carm.org/is-the-jehovahs-witness-religion-christian

dolphinheart:


The holy spirit is an active force that jehovah uses to perform different functions and this force exerts power. Some of those Anointed with the holy are said to be able to perform certain miraculous works . Some are said to be able to see visions, some giving power to endure certain trials while others are said to hear directives and instructions through the holy spirit. All these is part of the helper role that jesus said it will perform when it comes upon followers of jesus.
In acts 13:2 , the people who are there were ministering to jehovah when it was recorded that the holy spirit said. Does this not imply (in accordance with the other bible verses on Gods usage of the holy spirit ) that god used that force to impact what was said to them .
That the holy spirit speak does not imply that it is a person. A radio speaker saying understandable sounds does not mean that the radio is the originator of the sound , but someone(a person) is using the ability the radio has to transmit information, and anyone giving such oportunity can use that radio to do the same thing.

In not sure of the following bracketed statement but I still assume it is true unless contrary prove is being brought forward( Unlike jesus, angels , demons, jehovah, spirit creatures that the bible ascribed personality to , holy spirit has in no where in the scriptures been said to have a conversation with someone. other spirit creatures mentioned have had conversation /discussion with others and it is recorded .)

The holy spirit is being poured out and likened to a gift to different People and it is being used to anoint .
Luke 11:13 explains that God gives those who ask for it the holy spirit just like a father gives his children gifts. Surely this holy spirit is not a person.

your logic is weak. You didn't even read what you wrote. you said that the holy spirit speaking doesn't mean he is a person? . let's use your ideology. you said if a speaker using the radio to transmit information doesn't mean that the radio is a person but someone using the radio. if you were hearing from the radio will you say THE RADIO SAID TO ME?or the BROADCASTER SAID? BUT
2) will you also hear the radio use first PERSON PRONOUNS LIKE (I AND ME)
but the holy spirit used personal pronouns
acts 13:2
as they ministered unto the Lord and fasted the HOLY SPIRIT SAID separate unto ME ( he didn't say unto God.) saul and barnabas for the work I ( NOTICE HE DIDNT SAY GOD) have called them to do.
concerning conversation or communication.
2 corinthians 13:14
the grace of our lord jesus christ the love of God and the COMMUNION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT .
THE COMMUNION IS KOINONIA .
IT means
1) partnership 2) communication 3) participation 4) intercourse 5) fellowship.
all these words are always used when two persons are involved.
you can't partner with a force or influence neither can you fellowship with a force.
This verse brings forth a question
if the holy spirit is an active force. or the influence of God then he is a part of God and not a person but if that is correct why did paul say love of God and the COMMUNION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND not LOVE AND COMMUNION OF GOD .

acts 15 : 28
for it seemed good TO THE HOLY SPIRIT AND US..... ..


you said that the holy spirit poured out on many and likened to a gift. but that doesn't negate his personality because
galatians 3:20 NIV
for all of you that have baptized into Christ HAVE CLOTHED YOURSELVES WITH CHRIST

if Christ is a person how can we wear him as a clothe ?
him being a gift doesn't in any way deny his personality. I have more but let me rest now

The holy spirit is being poured out and likened to a gift to different People and it is being used to anoint .
Luke 11:13 explains that God gives those who ask for it the holy spirit just like a father gives his children gifts. Surely this holy spirit is not a person.

We have a human spirit,
without it we are a corpse, and it goes back to God who gave it.
God gives his own spirit to believers, the Holy Spirit.

Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

the Father is Spirit, He is a person.
Saying His Spirit is not a person is saying the Father who is Spirit is not a person.

Holy does not mean active and
Spirit does not mean force.

Holy means sacred, pure etc.
spirit means mind, and is likened to air which cannot be seen.

God gives His own mind to dwell in believers.
The more the faith of a believer, the more they are in tune with God's own mind.


1Co_2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Php_2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: