truthman2012:


[s]The Arabs were complaining to Muhammad that the quran is so difficult for them to understand and allahh/muhammad said why not? Why do you say you cannot understand something written in arabic and the messenger is even an arab. This is enough to show a reasonable person that the religion is arabian. If the arabs could not understand it, how could the non-arabs?[/s]

[s]

Allah confirms the quran is made difficult. Why? To manipulate the people:

[/s]nONSENSE!

[Quran 3:7] He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, AND SEARCHING FOR ITS HIDDEN MEANINGS, BUT NO ONE KNOWS ITS HIDDEN MEANINGS EXCEPT ALLAH. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

''No one knows the hidden meaning of the quran except allahh''. What does this mean?

Allah has a hidden agenda which no muslims know. And the hidden agenda is to deceive mankind. Why should the meaning be made hidden?

Nobody, even the arabs in whose language the quran was written cannot understand it because only allahh understands the manipulations it contains.

Tell me, why should only allahh know something meant for your use? How do you apply it since you can't know but only allahh.

May the true God open your eyes.

Obviously you have no idea what islam is. Imran verse 7 is talking about methodology. God is teaching us two ways by which knowledge can be derived from Quran: External and Internal knowledge. Or Implicit and explicit knowledge.

Explicit (external knowledge) are verses of the Quran which are plain and clear. They only need tafsir (further explanation). It's from this aspect of knowledge all our obligatory practices, hudood etc derived. Which means anyone can pick up the Quran, read and understand many verses without interpretation.

Implicit(Internal knowledge) are verses that are not entirely clear. These sort of verses need INTERPRETATION. That's what the verse means by allegorical (mutashabiat). None know their meanings except Allah and His messanger and religious learned men.

Now let me go a little further.

There is difference between Tafsir and Tawil. Tafsir is explanation. Tawil is interpretation. Get that?.

The Mutashabihat and Muhkamat Ayat

Allah states that in the Qur'an, there are Ayat that are Muhkamat, entirely clear and plain, and these are the foundations of the Book which are plain for everyone. And there are Ayat in the Qur'an that are Mutashabihat not entirely clear for many, or some people. So those who refer to the Muhkam Ayat to understand the Mutashabih Ayat, will have acquired the correct guidance, and vice versa.

This is why Allah said

هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَـبِ

(They are the foundations of the Book), meaning, they are the basis of the Qur'an, and should be referred to for clarification, when warranted,

وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَـبِهَـتٌ


(And others not entirely clear) as they have several meanings, some that agree with the Muhkam and some that carry other literal indications, although these meaning might not be desired.

The Muhkamat are the Ayat that explain the abrogating rulings, the allowed, prohibited, laws, limits, obligations and rulings that should be believed in and implemented. As for the Mutashabihat Ayat, they include parables, oaths, and what should be believed in, but not implemented.

Muhammad bin Ishaq bin Yasar commented on,

مِنْهُ آيَـتٌ مُّحْكَمَـتٌ

(In it are verses that are entirely clear) as "Containing proof of the Lord, immunity for the servants and a refutation of opponents and of falsehood. They cannot be changed or altered from what they were meant for.'' He also said, "As for the unclear Ayat, they can (but must not) be altered and changed, and this is a test from Allah to the servants, just as He tested them with the allowed and prohibited things. So these Ayat must not be altered to imply a false meaning or be distorted from the truth.''

Therefore, Allah said,

فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ فى قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ

(So as for those in whose hearts there is a deviation) meaning, those who are misguided and deviate from truth to falsehood,

فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَـبَهَ مِنْهُ

(they follow that which is not entirely clear thereof) meaning, they refer to the Mutashabih, because they are able to alter its meanings to conform with their false interpretation since the wordings of the Mutashabihat encompass such a wide area of meanings. As for the Muhkam Ayat, they cannot be altered because they are clear and, thus, constitute unequivocal proof against the misguided people. This is why Allah said,

ابْتِغَآءَ الْفِتْنَةِ

(seeking Al-Fitnah) meaning, they seek to misguide their following by pretending to prove their innovation by relying on the Qur'an -- the Mutashabih of it -- but, this is proof against and not for them. For instance, Christians might claim that ﴿`Isa is divine because﴾ the Qur'an states that he is Ruhullah and His Word, which He gave to Mary, all the while ignoring Allah's statements,

[size=20pt]إِنْ هُوَ إِلاَّ عَبْدٌ أَنْعَمْنَا عَلَيْهِ[/size]

(He ﴿`Isa﴾ was not more than a servant. We granted Our favor to him.) ﴿43:59﴾, and,

إِنَّ مَثَلَ عِيسَى عِندَ اللَّهِ كَمَثَلِ ءَادَمَ خَلَقَهُ مِن تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ قَالَ لَهُ كُن فَيَكُونُ

(Verily, the likeness of `Isa before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!'' and he was.) ﴿3:59﴾.

There are other Ayat that clearly assert that `Isa is but one of Allah's creatures and that he is the servant and Messenger of Allah, among other Messengers.

Allah's statement,

وَابْتِغَآءَ تَأْوِيلِهِ

(And seeking for its Ta'wil,) to alter them as they desire. Imam Ahmad recorded that `A'ishah said, "The Messenger of Allah recited,

هُوَ الَّذِى أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَـبَ مِنْهُ آيَـتٌ مُّحْكَمَـتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَـبِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَـبِهَـتٌ

(It is He Who has sent down to you the Book. In it are verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book; and others not entirely clear,), until, أُوْلُواْ الأَلْبَـبِ

(Men of understanding) and he said, «فَإِذَا رَأَيْتُمُ الَّذِين يُجَادِلُونَ فِيهِ، فَهُمُ الَّذِينَ عَنَى اللهُ، فَاحْذَرُوهُم»

(When you see those who argue in it like you just did up there and you and your fellow "christgangs" have been doing for 5 months now (using the Mutashabihat), then they are those whom Allah meant. Therefore, beware of them.)''

Al-Bukhari recorded a similar Hadith in the Tafsir of this Ayah ﴿3:7﴾, as did Muslim in the book of Qadar (the Divine Will) in his Sahih, and Abu Dawud in the Sunnah section of his Sunan, from `A'ishah; "The Messenger of Allah recited this Ayah,

هُوَ الَّذِى أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَـبَ مِنْهُ آيَـتٌ مُّحْكَمَـتٌ

(It is He Who has sent down to you the Book. In it are verses that are entirely clear,) until,

وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلاَّ أُوْلُواْ الأَلْبَـبِ

(And none receive admonition except men of understanding.)

He then said,

«فَإِذَا رَأَيْتِ الَّذِينَ يَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ؛ فَأُولئِكَ الَّذِينَ سَمَّى اللهُ، فَاحْذَرُوهُم»

(When you see those who follow what is not so clear of the Qur'an, then they are those whom Allah described, so beware of them.)''

Now, I am expecting you to say "trash". That's what kafir does best.

Iceflox:

The bible is a book of two religions, Judaism and Christianity.
old testament was Judaism while new testament is Christianity.
so, if you quote chronicles.which falls in old testament, saying Judaism was corrupt, you may be right.
Judaism and all other religions are corrupt, only Christianity is pure

rubbish! Why then your pastors and other Christians here quote old testament?. truthman2012 quoted Leviticus to suggest that christianity forbids bestiality but the chapter is in Old testament which means Christianity does not forbids bestiality.

tola9ja:


PROVIDE EVIDENCE

DON'T LET YOUR PASTOR HERE THAT

AND AS FROM TODAY DON'T QUOTE FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT

old testament like other religions of the world have moral lessons.or the 10 commandments that christians should learn and emulate , that's why we do not totally discard old testament.
also, Christianity has it's origin and early history from Judaism

Iceflox:

old testament like other religions of the world have moral lessons.or the 10 commandments that christians should learn and emulate , that's why we do not totally discard old testament.
also, Christianity has it's origin and early history from Judaism

THAT MEANS YOU PRACTICE JUDACHRIST ?

tola9ja:

THAT MEANS YOU PRACTICE JUDACHRIST ?

lol we have different believes, that is what makes us different

Empiree:
rubbish! Why then your pastors and other Christians here quote old testament?. truthman2012 quoted Leviticus to suggest that christianity forbids bestiality but the chapter is in Old testament which means Christianity does not forbids bestiality.

Don't mind them, they don't know.
few christians know about the religion they practice.

Empiree:
http://answeringchristians..com/2011/03/christians-massacre-muslims-burn.html

thanks and i condemn this barbaric and callous acts. But last last, did they do it, chanting scriptures on why they should kill. I doubt that. I believe its a political sympathy of sorts with coloration of "christian". Inaddition, the op is insinuating that kill people that dont believe in the christian God which we dont advocate nor follow but what you posted is killing becos of political difference.

tola9ja:

2 Chronicles 15:13King James Version (KJV)

13 That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

at op, are you insinuating we have abandoned this verse by not doing its bidding or what? Do you advocate we practice it?

unphilaz:
at op, are you insinuating we have abandoned this verse by not doing its bidding or what? Do you advocate we practice it?

Remove it

tola9ja:


Remove it

why if i may ask? Is it offensive? Is it permissible? Is it anti human? Or what that it should be removed?

unphilaz:
why if i may ask? Is it offensive? Is it permissible? Is it anti human? Or what that it should be removed?

No, it's not offensive to muslims. What's offensive is you not following those laws but pointing fingers at muslims for following theirs