MuttleyLaff: Like tithing, it is past its "best before" date
but people still use tithing as well as water baptism for sentimental or ignorance reason.
https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-water-baptism/2#34869078

Ubenedictus: you simply said, water baptism was obsolate and those who do it, do so out of ignorance and sentiment! Abi no be so?

MuttleyLaff: Ubenedictus, you know how we got to me making that remark
I didnt abracadabra pluck it out of the air and just blurt out that truth like the manner you're twisting and incorrectly making it out that way
Dont you get tired of this Ubenedictus? You've had a field day of straw-man at my expense

brocab: These Catholic's lie all the time, they are good at twisting words around only because they don't know any truths, all they can't seem to find the truth, that makes any sense. Just remember you are dealing with the unsaved-who believe they were saved in baby baptism.
keep on pushing the word of God into them, Satan never wins.

italo:
@scholars8200, osicom, plus can you help us judge who is lying here?

Let MuttleyLaff show us how Ubenedictus twisted his words and incorrectly made it up, please

Ubenedictus:
lol,

i did not lie, i simply wrote what you said.

You said baptism is an expired, obsolate practice and those who practice it do so out of ignorance and sentiments, that was what you said, isn't it?

MuttleyLaff:







I hear you brocab, but God is neither Catholic, Protestants etc
There is no denomination in the Kingdom of God

MuttleyLaff:
Shown above is the link for the original discussion between muttleylaff and esere826.
This is snapped up and seized by Ubenedictus.
He then vindictively blew it out of proportion, italo in tandem, too has unashamedly dissected it with ulterior intent and brought it up here, as seen following below









MuttleyLaff: 9:10am On Jun 19
Excuse my language
but you've probably guessed that I dont give a Foxtrot-Uniform-Charlie-Kilo about what type of water are in those passages,
as my stance on water baptism is no secret.
Do it, if you're compelled or feel the need to
but if you dont, please do not lose sleep over it. It isnt a do-or-die fanaticism

I just love it when people pull out the heresy card and play it grin grin grin
Something must have rattled and got them fidgety to do that

Nota bene, I am very particular and more concerned about John 3:5 and John 7:8
Do you agree both verses have nothing whatsoever to do with physical or literal water
https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-water-baptism/5#34918196

MuttleyLaff: 7:51am On Jun 24
God bless you.
This exactly is the genesis of this whole matter.
Before it spilled into this thread, it started between Kei144 and I, here https://www.nairaland.com/2352063/enter-kingdom-god-now#34519061
https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-water-baptism/8#35090589

You guys are employing delay tactics, to distract with another straw-man
and so prevent the submission of the promised last post which will settle and put the final nail in this whole thing

osicom:
Nobody should insult any person here.Let's be mature.If you don't agree with a poste does not mean you must take 'arm' against the poster.Here is my take.Preaching,baptism,believe,confession etc appear in the same portion of the Bible, why do you have issue with only baptism.This is a very dangerous way of interpreting the Bible.Why take away baptism but accept others? Was baptism not commanded in the great commission.

See the importance of baptism (go through these passages in you free time,they are quite much).If you object to any,do it objectionably.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Atc 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act_2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act_8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act_8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Act_8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act_8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be[b] baptized[/b]?
Act_8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Act_9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
Act_10:47 Can any man forbid wate[/b]r, that these should not be [b]baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act_10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Act_11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act_16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
Act_16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Act_18:8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.
Act_19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act_19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized [/b]with the [b]baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act_19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act_22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Rom_6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
1Co_1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1Co_1:14 I thank God that I baptized [/b]none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Co_1:15 Lest any should say that I had [b]baptized in mine own name.
1Co_1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co_10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co_12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
1Co_15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
Gal_3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Rom_6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Eph_4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Col_2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Pe_3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


How can someone still go against these and advise or speak on God' behalf to say baptism is not important to one'salvation.That will amount to total disregard of God's commandment.

osicom:
Let's be very careful here.Our opinion and thoughts are not important here but rather what the bible says on this matter.Baptism is as important as any commandment in the Bible.It was part of the great commission where Christ command that we should PREACH the Gospel and whoever BELIEVE and is BAPTIZED will be save (Matt 28:19;Mark 16:15,16 etc).Most people will agree with me that believe,repentance,confessing Christ etc are essential for salvation.But most people always have issue when it comes to baptism which appear simultaneously with these commands.Read what Apostle Paul wrote in Roman 6:3,4: ''Know ye not, that so many of us as were BAPTIZE into Jesus Christ were BAPTIZED into his death? Therefore we are BURIED with him by BAPTISM into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. .When the church started in Act chapter,do you not read of baptism being commanded by Peter to those who asked to be save? Acts 2:38-42 reads :''Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, and be BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION (FORGIVENESS) of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly RECEIVED his word were BAPTIZED: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.


There are numerous examples and instructions in support of baptism in the new testament.I should stop here for now not to have a lengthy poste,but read all the conversions (People becoming christian) in the book of Acts,and you come to realize the importance of this commandment. People of today disregard this just because of their personal view or of being thought differently in their respectively denomination by religious leaders.Whatever we say especially in this discussion of baptism if not supported in the bible should be disregarded.Let us base whatever we say,do on the Bible

MuttleyLaff:
Shown above is the link for the original discussion between muttleylaff and esere826.
This is snapped up and seized by Ubenedictus.
He then vindictively blew it out of proportion, italo in tandem, too has unashamedly dissected it with ulterior intent and brought it up here, as seen following below









MuttleyLaff: 9:10am On Jun 19
Excuse my language
but you've probably guessed that I dont give a Foxtrot-Uniform-Charlie-Kilo about what type of water are in those passages,
as my stance on water baptism is no secret.
Do it, if you're compelled or feel the need to
but if you dont, please do not lose sleep over it. It isnt a do-or-die fanaticism

I just love it when people pull out the heresy card and play it grin grin grin
Something must have rattled and got them fidgety to do that

Nota bene, I am very particular and more concerned about John 3:5 and John 7:8
Do you agree both verses have nothing whatsoever to do with physical or literal water
https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-water-baptism/5#34918196

MuttleyLaff: 7:51am On Jun 24
God bless you.
This exactly is the genesis of this whole matter.
Before it spilled into this thread, it started between Kei144 and I, here https://www.nairaland.com/2352063/enter-kingdom-god-now#34519061
https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-water-baptism/8#35090589

You guys are employing delay tactics, to distract with another straw-man
and so prevent the submission of the promised last post which will settle and put the final nail in this whole thing

brocab:
But there is truth. You either walk with it' all you lie about it. Which one are you
Jesus said one must be born again, if there is no denomination, then why is the Lord calling for the body' His Church, His personal army to believe in Him.
We are born again Christians, the Church that belongs to God. There's no other church that stands above the Lords Church, one must be born again.
How about you

MuttleyLaff:
Do you agree that there is no record of Paul ever being water baptised?

osicom:


Exactly correct! Faith and baptism are inextricably linked.There is no way one can preach the gospel without commanding the need to hear the gospel,having faith in it,believe,repentance,confessing Christ and being added to the church to be save as we read in Act 2:28-42 and numerous examples repleted in the Bible.

And you have rightly noted some people simply play with scripture,but we must declare it as it is.

Thanks

osicom:
I am reiterating my earlier (above) comment by adding the following for those who still kick against water baptism as essential to one's salvation with insurmountable evidence from the Bible.

osicom:
Act_8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Act_8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Act_9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
Act_10:47 Can any man forbid water that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

osicom:
Water baptism as a 'must step' for whoever want to be born again (to be a christian).
I affirm this because christ said in Matt 28:28:
''Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost''

osicom:
Baptism was commanded for numerous reasons among them is the forgiveness of sin Act 2:38 ''Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost''
It may interest you to know that baptism is not only for the people in the Bible, but for all who God will call Act 2:39
''For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

osicom:
Why can we just rely on what the Bible say rather than opposing it with so called knowledge which is like a rage juxtapose with God wisdom.

Ubenedictus:


lol brocab,

I am a born again Christian, I am surprised that you seem to think God is you sole property! God is not for you alone! He isn't for even Christians alone.

The is only One God and he is for all and all belongs to him.

If you believe in a God that belong to you alone then you are serving an idol.

Ubenedictus:
Here!

brocab:
But there is truth. You either walk with it' all you lie about it. Which one are you
Jesus said one must be born again, if there is no denomination, then why is the Lord calling for the body' His Church, His personal army to believe in Him.
We are born again Christians, the Church that belongs to God. There's no other church that stands above the Lords Church, one must be born again.
How about you

brocab:
Born again Christians couldn't possibility lie like you, it's only liars such as yourself Uben that can never make any sense when trying to twist words that never existed.
And when did you become a born again' was it at the time of baptism infants into the Catholic Church as you had claimed from the beginning.
So you are surprised, you seem to think God has sole property over my life-well he does-as well as the many millions of born again Christians He has called into His kingdom.
Jesus said one must be born again, not become a Catholic worshipper who join pagan religion and worship Idol's, such as you standing at the feet of Mary's statue, bowing down lighting a candle praying she will pray for you, as your mediator.
Why then is the Lord calling His people to come to Him-If you believe He isn't for even Christians alone' who else beside babies will go into heaven without Him knowing?[/color]
THEIRS NO BACK DOOR INTO HEAVEN.

Ubenedictus:
lol,

you have manage to insult me.

Weldone.

You can show everyone where I lie, if you can't shame on you.

MuttleyLaff:
Until just now, I wasnt going to dignify your posts with comments.
Please scrutinise the thread to know what so far has been been written or posted because your post reeks of regurgitations, ill-informed opinions and unnecessary barriers

MuttleyLaff:
Too many holes in these poor attempt at trying to gel-together three verses,
too many inconsistencies and you know what they are

MuttleyLaff:
Please dont cook up a phatom Matt 28:28 and dont try to build a water baptism doctrine on it.
There is no such thing as Matt 28:28
Correcting you, where is water in Matt 28:19?
Have you not read what I hinted about Matt 28:19 to Ubenedictus?

MuttleyLaff:
Which baptism was commanded?
What kind of baptism was Peter refering to for the almost 3000 converts there in Act 2:38?
Compare and contrast the following: Moses baptism, John baptism and Jesus baptism

MuttleyLaff:
Ask yourself that question, why can't we just rely on what the Bible say rather than concocting up doctrines and man traditions like Pharisees do
and just bear in mind that to inform is all that's so far being done on this thread, to know is the duty of the readership
Putting out what we ALL, really ought to know, but often like in this case, few, despite all discussed here, which has been very instructive to all, wish they might not have known

MuttleyLaff:
Nicodemus wasnt laughing at that lecture, like you just now did.
brocab took style to tell you that, like that night time visiting Pharisee or shall we "Far-to-see" you're coming across as not "seeing"
You're not acknowledging what you "see".
If you're not accepting or admitting what is in sight, hmm, there is something somewhere or somehow wrong
- the source or origin of your accouchement is being questioned

MuttleyLaff:
Shown above is the link for the original discussion between muttleylaff and esere826.
This is snapped up and seized by Ubenedictus.
He then vindictively blew it out of proportion, italo in tandem, too has unashamedly dissected it with ulterior intent and brought it up here, as seen following below









MuttleyLaff: 9:10am On Jun 19
Excuse my language
but you've probably guessed that I dont give a Foxtrot-Uniform-Charlie-Kilo about what type of water are in those passages,
as my stance on water baptism is no secret.
Do it, if you're compelled or feel the need to
but if you dont, please do not lose sleep over it. It isnt a do-or-die fanaticism

I just love it when people pull out the heresy card and play it grin grin grin
Something must have rattled and got them fidgety to do that

Nota bene, I am very particular and more concerned about John 3:5 and John 7:8
Do you agree both verses have nothing whatsoever to do with physical or literal water
https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-water-baptism/5#34918196

MuttleyLaff: 7:51am On Jun 24
God bless you.
This exactly is the genesis of this whole matter.
Before it spilled into this thread, it started between Kei144 and I, here https://www.nairaland.com/2352063/enter-kingdom-god-now#34519061
https://www.nairaland.com/2383797/saved-faith-water-baptism/8#35090589

You guys are employing delay tactics, to distract with another straw-man
and so prevent the submission of the promised last post which will settle and put the final nail in this whole thing

italo:
If this were in Greek, I could have used the Internet to interpret...

Please who can understand and interpret jargons? please tell us...

Was he able to say how Ubenedictus twisted his words?

MuttleyLaff:
OK, never mind, seems you're arent aware of the additions inserted in that passage. Seems you dont want to admit whose name specifically was used by the Apostles, Paul included when baptising and/or water baptising after Jesus' death and resurrection

Even if you tried, you know you'll only get yourself tied into a twist with the gymnastics flirtation with Matt 28:19 "invoking the Holy Trinity".
I like how you avoided or sidestepped the question though
I had answered you in so many ways before
but you seem not ready for the truth, talkless of recognising it
Forom another angle, try, a glorified "Placebo effect"?

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks
To you, this is a debate, to you, this is about winning, to you, this is about scoring cheap points.
All this, is to you is scalping-cutting for hanging trophies

You, Syncan and Ubenedictus have continually wielded and threw about one form of straw-man to another,
all in different shapes, forms and guises
and you have the cheek you accuse someone else or say that, that one is avoiding pertinent questions and diverting with trivial matters

When answers are given, you single out a sentence
and without taking in account the train thought nor the flow of the discussion, build indictments with them.

osicom:
I never attacked your person for you to attack me.

osicom:
We are debating issues here not the person who can use the best of words. Address and discuss the passages in the Bible I quoted.

osicom:
It is not for you to say baptism is not important. With the numerous passages I cited and examples of people who were baptized, recorded in Bible I am well informed to believe what the bible says on this matter. I never posted my opinion here, what I posted was backed by scriptures I cited.

osicom:
How do I cause barrier? If I caused any barrier by simply saying exactly how the Bible puts its, so be it. I would rather prefer to be seen as causing barrier, saying exactly how it is, than going with popular notion.

osicom:
Where are the holes,those passages simple tell of water as a medium of baptism. Where are the inconsistencies? Are you telling me that you do not compare different passages of the bible for proper understanding of a topic? If u think otherwise, then it becomes very difficult to discuss further.

osicom:
I was supposed to type verse 19 instead of 28. Don't crucify me for what I never intended to type. To tell that it was a mistake, did you not see the reading that accompanied the quotation?

osicom:
My friend this is not a phantom.

osicom:
I am not building a water baptism doctrine. Did Christ not command baptism, did the apostles not administer it to would-be Christians

osicom:
what about the Ethiopia eunuch, what about Paul? What about the numerous believers in Act chapter 2. I once again implore you to read and see water being used to administer baptism here:

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Act_8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Act_8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water[i], both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Act_8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Act_10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? [/i]

osicom:
On the issue of which baptism, I agree there were many baptism mentioned in the new testament.
There was John baptism of repentance for the remission of sin Mk_1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Luk_3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
We also read of baptism of suffering of christ:
Mark_10:38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
Mar_10:39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
Luk_12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
We are read of baptism of the Holy Ghost which empower the Apostle as we see in Act 2:
Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mat_3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
This passages also made mention of baptism in fire which connotes destruction.
From all these example,we can that baptism (Baptizo from greek) mean to be submerge/immerse/covered/overwhelm in something.

osicom:
In our discussion, one is immersed in water for baptism.

osicom:
It is important to note that John's baptism was no longer in effect and was replace by the one commanded by christ. For this reason, those who received John baptism were baptized properly:
Act_19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act_19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

osicom:
Concoct what? I simple quote and read of baptism of being mentioned and practiced by the 1st century Christians. Yet you say I concocted it. This is not funny. I hope no body accuses you of concocting something when u tell them to stop stealing, repent, believe,do good works and numerous thing you read of in the bible. It becomes a concocted doctrine when one mentions baptism. Hmm. Where is our standard here.

Ubenedictus:


lol,

you have manage to insult me.

Weldone.

You can show everyone where I lie, if you can't shame on you.

Ubenedictus:


sorry my dear this you epistle doesn't cut it, brocab just called be a liar, along with your own accusation of twisting words.

You guys just attacked my person instead of the topic, so kindly show me my "twisting" and brocab can kindly prove I am a liar.

If anybody is denying what they see its both of you! You have went to great length to try and say "water and spirit" is not water and spirit, you have continued to divert issues by by throwing questions around. Your idea of a "picture" has been rebuted but you prefer to still play around.

MuttleyLaff:
cc Ubenedictus
What is "born again"?
Why must anyone be born again?
How did this issue of "born again" come about? What was the background, circumstance and reason?
Why did Jesus bring up the "born again" matter?
How many people on record did Jesus teach or preach "born again" to?
Jesus is known to preach and teach to multitudes, is it on record He preached and taught "born again" to any of the multitudes?
What benefit, was mentioned as the objective of being "born again"?
What is the sharp distinction and/or difference between "born again" and "born of water and spirit"?

btoks:
From the last 2 pages, you see an example of how sola scriptura doesn't work.
one person says baptism is important and saves, others say water baptism is obsolete.!
How do we know the truth?

btoks:
From the last 2 pages,you see an example of how sola scriptura doesn't work.one person says baptism is important and saves,others say water baptism is obsolete.!How do we know the truth?

italo:
You will have to ask Barnabaseloka and Muttleylaff,

They seem to have assumed ownership of the "spirit."
They know who has the Spirit and who doesn't.
They even know how much of the spirit each person has.

The problem is that that "spirit" tells them contradictory things sometimes.

btoks:
From the last 2 pages,you see an example of how sola scriptura doesn't work.one person says baptism is important and saves,others say water baptism is obsolete.!How do we know the truth?