Who believes in psychics?

Maybe I would have believed if I hadn't watched youtube videos of how James Randi has disgraced world renowned psychics and faith healers; or Deren brown who time and time again have demonstrated that the whole phychic sh*t is a psychological trick.

I believe in Psychic abilities. Whether I believe in any professional psychic is a different matter. One's own subjective experiences are enough to know that it is possible.

SirJohn:

Maybe I would have believed if I hadn't watched youtube videos of how James Randi has disgraced world renowned psychics and faith healers; or Deren brown who time and time again have demonstrated that the whole phychic sh*t is a psychological trick.

Surely, they could not have gone through "the whole" about the phenomenon known as 'psychic' - past, present and yet to occur. It is such kind of sentiments ('the whole') that one should avoid making.

@pilgrim1, you're right but then I'd rather classify them all as the same; its just a defence tactic I picked up lately against charlatans.

SirJohn:

@pilgrim1, you're right but then I'd rather classify them all as the same; its just a defence tactic I picked up lately against charlatans.

I know how you feel. Charlatans often get us worked up and upset - but that is not sufficient reason to establish 'guilt by association' by making every case the same as the work of a charlatan. It would be as erroneous for any one of us to declare all scientists as frauds just because a few 'charlatans' have shown up here and there. Each case requires investigation on their own merit.

Come to think of it pilgrim1, who is a psychic? Is it someone who claims he can bend a spoon with his mind or push an object without touching them or make a cup of cofee boil without external heat? I think such people only exist in hollywood. Except of course you've seen one.

SirJohn:

Come to think of it pilgrim1, who is a psychic? Is it someone who claims he can bend a spoon with his mind or push an object without touching them or make a cup of cofee boil without external heat? I think such people only exist in hollywood. Except of course you've seen one.

No, I cannot claim to have seen one myself - except, of course, it depends on what is meant by 'psychic' in context.

There are different levels of paranormal phenomena to which that term 'psychic' is applied. Ordinarily, it has come to mean both a noun and an adjective as pertaining to what are 'apparently sensitive to things beyond the natural range of perception'. It is in this sense that I hinted about the 'different levels' to which the word is applied, so that it should not surprise us that some researchers also include such things as clairvoyance, ESP, telepathy, etc. as tending to 'psychic' phenomena.

Again, I don't know how the term 'psychic' may apply to such phenomena as bending a spoon with one's mind or pushing an object without touching them. I think in some other instances, there are demonstrations of pushing objects without having 'touched' them directly. See vids below as to what I mean ('martial arts masters who apparently knock people out without having touched them'):

[flash=340,285]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HXyJTXGTOk&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]


On the other hand, there are also phenomena that have to do being 'apparently sensitive to things beyond the natural range of perception' - in this case, "synaesthesia" may fit the description of what is beyond the natural range of perception (since it is not common to many people), although I'm not comfortable classifying that as 'psychic'. Synaesthesia is more properly defined as a psychological phenomenon whereby a particular sensory stimulus triggers a second kind of sensation. An example is where the sound of musical notes may trigger the visual sensation of the various colours in the mind or the eye of the synaesthete. Please see again below for this category:

[flash=340,285]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R_A4tUMOtI&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]


So, who then is a 'psychic' in the context that you and I are seeking to clarify? I guess it more properly refers to someone who exhibits demonstrations of the power of the mind in paranormal activity or beyond the natural range of perception. Perhaps you have somewhat a different view - it would be great to read yours.

As an asides, more on synaesthesia: fancy a combination of chicken, ice-cream and sauce? Just as you might be wondering about how that might taste in your mouth, perhaps for the synaesthete it is a 'perfect' dish - he's tasting a different kind of 'flavour' than most of y'all are used to. Enjoy:

[flash=340,285]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvwTSEwVBfc&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]

no i don't.

@pilgrim1, I studied automotive engineering and I'm presently a telecoms engineer; psychology, metaphysics, esoterics and all that is way off my field. However, having watched several videos of James Randi in an open contest with world renowned psychics, they've never been able to reproduce their 'power'; besides none have been able to claim his $10,00 cheque.

pilgrim.1:

. See vids below as to what I mean ('martial arts masters who apparently knock people out without having touched them'):

If you watch the videos to the end the guy was only using some trick because they tried it on a skeptic who believes it was false and it failed. All the other performances were explained through natural means. If there is anything that the whole documentary shows is that psychics are frauds. They are only good in making people believe in falsehoods.

bindex:

If you watch the videos to the end the guy was only using some trick because they tried it on a skeptic who believes it was false and it failed. All the other performances were explained through natural means. If there is anything that the whole documentary shows is that psychics are frauds. They are only good in making people believe in falsehoods.

For one, the whole documentary was not about 'psychics', so how could it be pushing your idea that it shows 'psychics are frauds'? It's alright to believe what you may, but it's disturbing in itself to read issues into the documentary that are not there in the first place. Look again at what I wrote:

[list]

pilgrim.1:

Again, I don't know how the term 'psychic' may apply to such phenomena as bending a spoon with one's mind or pushing an object without touching them.

[/list]

The point was that, while some researchers use the term 'psychic' to describe the demonstrations in italics (as suggested by SirJohn), I don't see that as necessarily a sound inference - thus, my comment: "I don't know how the term 'psychic' may apply to such phenomena".

@SirJohn,

SirJohn:

@pilgrim1, I studied automotive engineering and I'm presently a telecoms engineer; psychology, metaphysics, esoterics and all that is way off my field. However, having watched several videos of James Randi in an open contest with world renowned psychics, they've never been able to reproduce their 'power'; besides none have been able to claim his $10,00 cheque.

If I were you, I would not place my bet on James Randi - he's as much a fraud as he accuses others, and he's been confirmed to lie on several occasions. When this point is mentioned, those who are devoted to or fawn over his style of debunking go red in the face with anger. Although there are indeed psychic frauds, Randi has been openly challenged several times by several claimants to genuine paranormal phenomena. The funny thing is that he (Randi) has never faced up to those challenges - what's he scared off, that someone might indeed claim his $1million and end his career? Examples of these challenges to Randi have been discussed in another thread - 'Why I Am Not An Atheist':

         Montague Keen:
         scroll down to 'The challenge to Mr. Randi and friends'
         see also 20 spelt out 'cases from which Mr. Randi may wish to select a handful to answer'

         Victor Zammit:
         there are a few outlines reposted and highlighted about Zammit's challenge
         to Randi et al - see here, here, and here.


An earlier example I gave (although not a challenge to Randi nor was it posted as a psychic phenomena) was about John Safran in his encounter with Bob Larson. It is significant that while the former was well known as a die-hard skeptic about anything tending to the paranormal or supernatural, he could not deny the reality of what happened to him in his encounter with the latter.

Psychic is an act of witchcraft, these group of people derive their power to foretell and foresee from the dark powers of this world. Yes in most times what they foretell comes to pass but the real purpose of it is to draw gullible people who are willing to serve GOD from the right direction.

It is one among many of Satan's axis of evil to manipulate the world and lure them in to the lake of fire. So be careful and dont be doomed.

"Then I saw a second beast; it emerged from the ground;
it had two horns like a lamb, but made a noise like a dragon. This second beast was servant to the first beast, and extended its authority everywhere,
making the world and all its people worship the first beast,
which had the mortal wound and had been healed.
And it worked great miracles, even to calling down fire from heaven on to the earth while people watched."
Revelations 13:11-12

@pilgrim1,
like I said earlier, the paranormals is way off my grasp for now and neither you nor myself can claim knowledge of this very abstract phenomenon.
Yes Mr Randi may not be able to explain everything and yes there may be real psychics out there but one may begin to wonder why these guys dont win lotteries and stuff.
Do you know about James Hydrik or Uri Geller?

good question. i don't believe in psychics but I believe in hypnotists though

@SirJohn,

SirJohn:

@pilgrim1,
like I said earlier, the paranormals is way off my grasp for now and neither you nor myself can claim knowledge of this very abstract phenomenon.

True; and although neither of us could claim knowledge of this phenomena, my position is different from that of the 'skeptic' whose underlying assumption is to deny any existence or reality of such phenomena.

SirJohn:
Yes Mr Randi may not be able to explain everything and yes there may be real psychics out there but one may begin to wonder why these guys dont win lotteries and stuff.

I don't know why they don't win lotteries and stuff - at best, I could conjecture that such activities are not the reason for anyone being a 'psychic'. Winning lotteries or any such in itself proves nothing - they do not authenticate or validate the reality of psychic paranormal phenomena.

SirJohn:

Do you know about James Hydrik or Uri Geller?

Yes, but I didn't pay that much attention to them. For one, even before I came across info about Hydrik's fraud confession to investigative journalist Dan Korem, it seemed 'something' was just missing in his acts. Such fellows are give-aways to Randi's style of debunking.

As regards Uri Geller, please see this link where I posted something about this. One thing I often watch out for in such 'claims vs counter-claims' propaganda is that the essential gist is lost somewhere in the excitement of the surrounding controversies.

oyinda.:

good question. i don't believe in psychics but I believe in hypnotists though

Hypnosis is a gradual process of becoming a psychic, hence you relax yourself and start imagining situations in deep and severe mental concenstration that graduates to nervous sleep ( eys open but away from the activities of the world). This kind of practise is not healthy for a normal human being, if cares not taking it proceeds to a state of  mental disablement.

The practise also is what the psychic adopts but conjure spiritualism into it by a means of dark powers. So be very careful about what you do.

Read this again.
Psychic is an act of witchcraft, these group of people derive their power to foretell and foresee from the dark powers of this world. Yes in most times what they foretell comes to pass but the real purpose of it is to draw gullible people who are willing to serve GOD from the right direction.

It is one among many of Satan's axis of evil to manipulate the world and lure them in to the lake of fire. So be careful and dont be doomed.

"Then I saw a second beast; it emerged from the ground;
it had two horns like a lamb, but made a noise like a dragon. This second beast was servant to the first beast, and extended its authority everywhere,
making the world and all its people worship the first beast,
which had the mortal wound and had been healed.
And it worked great miracles, even to calling down fire from heaven on to the earth while people watched."
Revelations 13:11-12