I have been going to church since I came into London 2yrs ago. (Catholic church)
What surprises me is that more of the congregation is made up of black people - especially from Africa.
Only elderly white folks go to church.

Are these not supposed to be the people who brought the religion to us?
They suddenly got tired?
Was it a convinient way of subduing our forefathers?
What is going on?
Some of white guys I spoke to laughed and told me that church is just a nice way Africans network and socialise.
A neat way for sharp people to become billionaires
Whaaaat
I have started thinking about returning to the old traditional ways we have left to suffer and fade away.
Something is fishy.

Do white people take Christianity as seriously as we do? Only in America. George Bush, you see, is 'born again'.

Most of the modern day white folks have already realised that christianity was based entirely on fiction fantasy,so they dumped it.
It takes a lot of courage to do that,and they have plenty.

1.Are these not supposed to be the people who brought the religion to us?

The Europeans who initially spread Christianity to Africa are now dead. So no, those aren't the same 'white people' who brought religion to 'us'.

2. Most of the modern day white folks have already realised that christianity was based entirely on fiction fantasy.

No. In the U.K, unlike Nigeria and America, Christianity is no longer fashionable- it's not necessarily a case of individuals realising that Christianity is fiction. You'll probably find (if you talk to people) that a lot of people haven't really taken the time out to consider what they do or do not believe.

Christianity is still deemed a necessity within American society, with regular church attendance not uncommon. Around about 70% the American population would be classed as 'white'.

p.s.
This thread is dumb.

beacuse they are not fake,
They do not need to be "Seen" so that people will think they are good.
Please all the people you see in the church , ask them what the "pastor " said they will not know .But one month later they will still remember the colour of mrs okafors shoes and the handbag.

this just goes down to show us that christianity is just a chain of confusion else how will the originators of a religion run away from it and leave it to the people they passed it unto to dwell in it? even the white americans do not go to church as much as africans do. they believe christiuanity is just going to the church besides just a few of them do go(only the old people attend regularly) their form of christainity is very very different with the one we practice in nigeria. in america(US) black people are the ones that go to church most of the time.

I am so happy that this observation is coming from someone who can be refered to as a "partcipant observer" in London and i must congratulate you my fellow compatriot for just coming to terms with what some of us have been saying all along that "religion" and that is the so called imported religions in Nigeria is just a social movement where some smart alecs feed fat on the ignorance of the people or have you not wondered why inspite of our so called "religiousity" the Nigerian society is still so disorganised and corrupt?

For those of you who think we have not been tricked all along by oyibo, take a look at this:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061104/ap_on_re_us/haggard_sex_allegations


One popular hypocrite just owned up to illicit and gay sex plus hard drugs.

Na this kin people make us forget our own religion and culture.

Make una shine eye o

Ibexy,

Christianity was at one time useful for Europeans to rule the world, but now it is dangerous as other races get a hold of what the bible actually says.

So it is being dropped by Europeans.

There are precedents for this in history.

For instance in Kenya, Jomo Kenyatta was locked up for constantly quoting the bible, "that God had given to each nation it's own land."

Whites were more agitated by his continous reading of that verse, then they were by the Mumu with guns.

In America, Bible reading was outlawed for Blacks, when those who read the bible figured out that oppression was a biblical no-no.

In Haiti, they were told, they could only worship the number 2 God --the devil. This is why Voodoo or Juju remained so big in Haiti.

In South Africa, it was Christian students who began the boycotts that led to the soweto massacre and eventual freedom of South Africa.

Whites quickly try to withdraw from christianity when it seems that others are going to get a hold of what the bible really says.

America is a special case. Even though still in America it is shown over and over again.

African Americans attend church more.
African Americans believe in the bible more i.e. the Creation story.
African Americans are less likely to support abortion or gays.
African Americans give more to help churches and poor people.

Other groups in America are considered more or less "cultural christians", i.e. they attend church because their neighbors attend church and it is expected of them.

The bible and God really do not have much to do with church attendance.

On the other hand some white Americans are considered true believers and they are diligent about their religion but it may not be related exactly to the gospel but more or less to prosperity gospel.

@All,
I agree with exu; this is one of the dumbest threads of all time. I see the originator and most of those who agree with him as individuals with very low self-esteem and suffer from inferiority complex. Otherwise, at this time and age of individual acquisition of wisdom, some peoples are still using the "white man's" attitude as a barometer of what should or should not be an inidividual quest at faith and understanding.
Well, white man also gave us Africans education, and by all information available, university enrollment is dropping fast here in UK and most of europe, so why dont you stop going to school and go back to hunting like your fore-fathers?.
Dont you guys sound pathethic and moronic!

Havila,

I did not take the question that way. I expected that the person wanted to know why Christianity is losing favor with whites.

Christianity has always been secondary to "white culture", so when it is not as useful to white culture anymore, then of course it will be dropped.

I think the disavowing of Christianity is an purposeful attempt to keep Black people away from what the bible really says.

No, I think it's because the world is outgrowing the bible.

Seun,

That would be premature.

Religion (belief in something better than oneself and that one is getting rid of evil) is the only platform on which successful revolutions have been run.

If the world out grows the bible before Africa goes through it's rebirth, then we have a situtation where Africa is doomed to be the welfare mother of the world for eternity.

Africans must use religion first, as other areas have used it, to unify and put an end to backwardness.

Again which is back to my point, of why whites would want to get rid of the bible, at this time, before Africa uses religion to get on it's feet.

Religion (belief in something better than oneself and that one is getting rid of evil) is the only platform on which successful revolutions have been run.

That is precisely the problem that makes religion so dangerous. It can be used to justify the vilest crimes agains humanity. Instead of calling it bloodshed, we call it revolution. Any system that discourages people from using their minds will be used by oppressors to keep the common man under. Religion is one such system.

(I) @Drusilla,
I think you are trying 'dress-up' or 'make sexy' what the original poster is saying by your eloquent reasoning. However, it is clear he is not asking why 'christianity' is losing favor with whites but rather "why we are bothering with 'christianity' when the whites who introduced it to us are obviously loosing interest". I am writing christianity in quote because obviously the writer's concept or undrstanding of christianity is as a 'religion'; and the not the true concept of christianity as a faith-- an "individual" quest at wisdom, spiritual understanding and maturity through the belief in, and discipleship of the doctrines or teachings of Jesus Christ. True faith in Christ results in the liberation of the mind, the scriptures bring such depth of wisdom to man, that I really am not surprised at the attempts by the white supremacist in those days to prevent black peoples from reading the bible. The fight for emancipation of blacks, end of slavery and death of apartheid in South Africa were all birthed through the increase in faith and understanding of christianity by leading black figures who led such fights. Rather than use the attitude of the so called 'whites' as a barometer, an intuitive mind will rather see it as what happens when the true purpose of something is corrupted to fulfill certain selfish objectives. What do I mean? White peoples brought 'christianity' to Africa, together with education and unfortunately also brought slavery. The 'religion of chrsitianity' was used to then to perpetuate slavery, but you cannot build lies upon truth, so slavery collapsed when faith started increasing backed by education. A lot of whites now are loosing interest in 'religion' of christanity not just because of science or techonological advancement, but more importantly because they are somehow ashamed to be associated with a 'religion' used by their fore-fathers to perpetuate wickedness, slavery etc. The 'fact' that christianity was used then to perpetuate illegality did not and has not removed the 'truth' about what christianity really is - an individual decision of faith in the true God and knowledge of grace from the true God. Now, this is a spiritual understanding that each person will seek rather than use somebody else as a barometer for understanding; and a lot of factors influence seeking such understanding; true understanding of science, availability of sincere knowledgeable teachers or leaders, maturity, etc

(II) Quote from Seun: Any system that discourages people from using their minds will be used by oppressors to keep the common man under.  

Most of Seun's comment are rather immature, devoid of understanding, and backed by faulty logic; rather than premature. To his own understanding, 'christianity' is one of the systems that discourages people from using their minds. Well, that is the 'religion' of christianity mindset to which he and a lot seem to 'understand'; and not the mindset of 'Christian faith' which is a truly liberated mind i.e a mind that digs deep, seeks wisdom, direction and understanding using the characteristics or principles of the living God. Does he know this, I doubt it. The white supremacists in America, south Africa used the concept of christianity as a religion to subjugate the blacks, but the blacks on the other hand rather got the faith-understanding of christianity to fight for their God-given freedom. In all things, it is always better to seek wisdom and understanding personally.

IBEXY,

I noticed the same thing when I first moved to the UK a few years ago,when I inquired the reason for this phenomenon I got similar reasons given by members on this forum.
After a few years of living in the European system and a staunchly Catholic country Ireland,I have come to a simple conclusion.This Is The Age Of Reason.

You see that the western would is controlled by Reason and Technology.You don't need to fast for 7 days to get a loan from your bank or pray for good grades in college and definitely no need to pray for success in farming,business.

If you watch Sky TV you would notice that the channels you see black people is the religious channels,you would see loads of black people sitting down and their pastor telling how successful they would be if the pray hard,fast and pay their tithes.

Drusilla,

Drusilla:

African Americans attend church more.
African Americans believe in the bible more i.e. the Creation story.
African Americans are less likely to support abortion or gays.
African Americans give more to help churches and poor people.

"Religion is Opium of the People" Karl Marx.

This is true of Poor People,what better way to deal with their miserable condition than to believe that there is life after death and all the bad white people would burn in hell

Havila:

(II) Quote from Seun: Any system that discourages people from using their minds will be used by oppressors to keep the common man under.

Most of Seun's comment are rather immature, devoid of understanding, and backed by faulty logic; rather than premature. To his own understanding, 'christianity' is one of the systems that discourages people from using their minds. Well, that is the 'religion' of christianity mindset to which he and a lot seem to 'understand'; and not the mindset of 'Christian faith' which is a truly liberated mind i.e a mind that digs deep, seeks wisdom, direction and understanding using the characteristics or principles of the living God.

Havila,your argument is incoherent and logically flawed.
Please explain how you come to the conclusion that:
1. Seun's comment is immature? Why do you consider it immature?
2. Seun's comment is devoid of understanding? What understanding is it devoid of?
3. Seun's comment is backed by faulty logic? Wat logical flaws are there in his argument?
Christianity is [b]indeed [/b]one of the systems that discourages people from using their mind. Just check the bible and you will see it's anti-intellectual anti-rational stance. If that doesn't convince you, you can always glance over the suppression of freethought in the history of Christianity. It is quite illuminating.
Your statement the mindset of 'Christian faith' which is a truly liberated mind i.e a mind that digs deep, seeks wisdom, direction and understanding using the characteristics or principles of the living God is very confusing. Can you ellaborate how faith liberates the mind, how it digs deep, how it seeks wisdom and what type of understanding you're talking about?
Also, what are the characteristics or principles of the living God?

mrmayor:

You see that the western would is controlled by Reason and Technology.You don't need to fast for 7 days to get a loan from your bank or pray for good grades in college and definitely no need to pray for success in farming,business.

Mrmayor,

Even though there isn't that much overt religiosity in western europe left, I wouldn't go as far as declaring that the western world in controlled by reason and technology. Very few people actually embrace the scientific mindset. Even though they actively use the fruits of science (technology), apart from those directly involved in science and technology, most haven't got the slightest idea what underlies it's very success. There's still a lot of magical thinking going around. Where there may be a significant difference is that most western intellectuals are squarely on the side of reason (except for the US, where loonies rule the airwaves).

@Topic


The whole idea of Christianity was to lead the sheep to the wolves. White people were the wolves posing as the shepherd. Now that we worship white Jesus, we are also worshipping white people, this is the reason why white people are the richest people on this planet. Black people worship them through the religion they gave Black people. That was the only reason why they introduced their version of Christianity to us, for the purposes of spiritually enslaving black people. What is spiritual enslavement? Spiritual enslavement is when you enemy, becomes your deity. You can't conquer your white enemy if in your mind, ultimately Jesus is white, making white people the so called chosen ones of God.

The question in the minds of black people becomes, how valuable are black people to God? This is what black people are thinking. Now black people are like Cain and Able. The white people are Able the one Cain killed because he was jelous of the offering Able made to God. Able was kept alive by God to walk the earth but a mark was put upon him to show that he was a murderer of his brother. Able had to go out the rest of his life in trying to gain Gods love. That is what black people are now doing, they are going about the rest of our lives to try and please God to the point of sacraficing their self. The whole thing is, the God they are trying to please is the white God, AKA white people in general. White man is God, white woman is Mary the mother of white Jesus. Black people have been really fooled by white people.

If you don't believe me that black people believe that Jesus hence God is white, put it to a test. Ask your young children what color is God or Jesus. Ask any young black child this question. They are going to tell you that he is white. If you ask them why is Jesus white, they are going to say "I don't know" or shrug their shoulders. The reason why they don't know why they believe Jesus or God is white, is because they have been indoctrinated and told through subliminals that Jesus or God is white. A child is not conscious to subliminal affects.

The whole idea of the introduction to white Christianity was to keep black people subserviant to white people, letting white people have their way with black people. White peoples independance depends on the dependance of black people and black people are dependant upon God who is white. White people made sure to make it a never ending 360 degree cycle. Africa is what made Europe what it is today while the people of Africa suffer.

Right now, white people are brining in toxic waste from Europe, and storing it on African land where the toxic waste is killing Africans. Again, the white mans Christian religion has made black people the human sacraficials to the white race. They told us white Jeusus died for our sins, so in our black minds, we don't mind dying for white people sense white Jesus died for us.

Have you seen how Africans worship white Jesus? All over Africa, Africans have thousands of portraits containing white Jesus. Black people deify white Jesus.


White mans job to gain economical independence was done after he introduced Christianity to black people. There is no need for him to now attend church when he has manufactured Negroes who will further his plight.

Can we(Nigeria) really say we are taking Christianity Seriously?

In my own point of view? NO.

ONE
Example: All the churches in Lagos alone(forget the rest of Nigeria) are more than all the Churches in Japan put together. Leave Japan and hop into Thailand. All you see is Buddha. Nothing else. Get to Vietnam and its another story. Go to the UK and its the oldies that you find in Church. Get to America and Yes theres a lot of Christianity, but a lot of unbelievers too(really way off in worse directions than the ones in Nigeria). South America is not too better. Talk about other countries where Christianity is not as pronounced as Nigeria.

If TAKING CHRISTIANITY SERIOUSLY was the major requirement for God's blessings, Nigeria will be #1. But see the conditions of these countries and compare with Nigeria. In the Bible, God blessed those that served him. Are we blessed? YES, perhaps because our fore-fathers took God seriously. In fact, over blessed, but now that the blessing is too much, we use the blessings and hurt and destroy ourselves and our own future generations.

TWO
The thing is not in "TAKING CHRISTIANITY SERIOUSLY". The ultimate is doing the right thing. "I AM A CHRISTIAN" - written on church-paper is different from "I AM A CHRISTIAN" - with my name written in Heaven.

WE TAKE CHRISTIANITY SERIOUSLY, BUT WE DONT TAKE GOD SERIOUSLY.
OBEYIING THE WHOLE WORD OF GOD is not the same as OBEYING THAT PART THAT I FEEL I CAN OBEY.

Imagine: someone leaves Church for home after Sunday service and an Okada man scratches his car(in the most negligible way) and the next thing, this BROTHER comes out of church and gets physical with an okada man. The question is: what did he hear in Church?

2Ki 17:32 So they feared the LORD, and made unto themselves of the lowest of them priests of the high places, which sacrificed for them in the houses of the high places.

2Ki 17:33 They feared the LORD, and served their own gods, after the manner of the nations whom they carried away from thence.f

Think about the import of the statement: THEY FEARED THE LORD AND SERVED THEIR OWN GODS.
"THEY FEARED THE LORD" - This is what we can see
"THEY SERVED THEIR OWN GODS" - God sees this - deep into the heart of the individual.

Today, all we are doing is calling LORD LORD, but not doing what HE SAYS!!! What of the Pastors that Preach outright error and still people flock after them. Yes we know its the end times, but its part of the problem.

The politicians, governors, house of assembly members, etc, bank execs, and people in authority stealing wealth? are the majority of them totally pagans? NOPE. Even if they were, what about CONSCIENCE? They are serving God, abi?

This is not to say that there are no true believers at all. yes their are, but we need more. Can we found this(below) prevailent basically and by default in Nigeria and among Nigerians(one to another)?
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it,

definitely not. the passage says

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

what is the problem? who is the problem? Is it Mr. President and his boys?
Answer: None of the above. The problem is the people. A change has to start first from the people.

There are 150+ million Nigerians. Do we have 75million politicians + army, police and their groups? NO.
So if a change for the better were to start, could it pervade our entirety? YES, if we want to.

So what has the white man got that we havent: lemme say it like this:
The little of true Christianity that they practice earns them enough of Gods favor that they are blessed much more abundantly. That is why they have left us behind.

Many are called, few are chosen. Its not how much you give, but how you give it.

THREE

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

If only we could judge all our actions by this passage. I think it would be a start to a new beginning.
If politicians and those in authority could seek to do good things,
if the masses could seek to elect good people,
if you and I were looking for the next good thing we can do,

honestly, what else would we be looking for.

@Sista

You are seriously confused.

The whole idea of Christianity was to lead the sheep to the wolves. White people were the wolves posing as the shepherd. Now that we worship white Jesus, we are also worshipping white people, this is the reason why white people are the richest people on this planet. We worship them through the religion they gave us. That was the only reason why they introduced their version of Christianity to us was to spiritually enslave us. What is spiritual enslavement? Spiritual enslavement is when you enemy becomes your deity. You can't conquer your white enemy if in your mind ultimately Jesus is white making white people the so called chosen ones of God.

And how many of you are WORSHIPPING A WHITE JESUS?

I dont WORSHIP A WHITE JESUS. God has no color, if you read your Bible very well.

And maybe if you read your Bible very well, deeper than what your pastor read for you, the idea of Jesus being white and black would have erased out of your mind. Hope you are not racist.

Example: America
GEORGE BUSH CANNOT STAND AND SAY THAT AMERICA IS WHAT IT IS TODAY BECAUSE OF THE WHITE AMERICANS. If you remove the BLACKS from their, it ceases to be America. Forget the slave trade. Talk about what America is as a nation, in all its arials, culture, power, intelligence, resources, everything. Not only the blacks, think of other cultural mixes. The IQ of a black baby is normally higher than that of a white baby if both are born under the same normal equal conditions. That has been proven a long time ago. How many babies are born under normal conditions in Africa? is it because of the white man? Can't we make the conditions RIGHT? Dont we have the know-how.

A survery I read sometime ago says "Nigerians are the most educated ethnic groups in America, that an average Nigerian has another Univ. Certificate / Practicable profession other than his B.Sc". Now there are thousands of more Nigerians who want to run away from Nigeria tomorrow morning if given the opportunity.

U mentioned about why white people are the richest on the planet: here: they are the richest because they use their brain, no matter how little it is. In Africa, we use our brains for the wrong stuff - totally for the wrong stuff. See, while Bill Gates was reasoning how to write computer programs, thinking about algorithms here and there, a Nigerian was trying to figure out the 419 puzzle. Do you think it is easy just to sit down and dupe someone (without any references of a former act - think of the first attempt of whoever the idea started from), plan everything, put things in place - all the lies and the stories. I was reading up on a site that its one of the greatest ideas of the past 100years. In fact, the commentator estimated the IQ of the originator of that idea to be in the genius level. He wasnt making any fun of it. The article was on something to make computers obtain information from each other, for example: a computer(the lier) wants to obtain some information from another computer, and this lier(computer) would have in store answers, all the possible questions/queries it might be probed for and it can generate more and more, until it gets what it wants - more like a chess game where there is a solution for every move.

Another reason is that we love quick results, a tree planted today that will grow tomorrow. Is this possible? The word "LONG TERM" is not in our dictionary. Go to S. Korea and you'll find Fiber Optic cables already laid underneath refuse dumps. All that needs to be done is for the piece of land to be cleared and you erect your house and then call a technician to get you connected. Who laid those cables? well, maybe they are long dead by now or at least old, not enjoying the "Technology".

The always Perpendicular roads in America were not planned by the present day hip-hopper Americans. Americans who lived ages ago planned it for security purposes. Are they enjoying it now? NO, coz the are passed away. In Africa/Nigeria, is it common to see people doing things for the future generations? NO. We do only what will profit us in our own-life-time. There are no plans for the next 50-100 years while we would have passed away, and then we'll complain that the white man is richer than we are.

The reason for the above is that we dont commend good things. Its common to hear the saying "You are on your own". The president is on his own and im on my own. The man on the street is on his own and im on my own. Thats the problem. Suppose, I do anything good, even out of personal sacrifice, the fact that im on my own, either in success or failure would not propel me to give it a try in the first place. Lack of trial is not so much different from failure.

If you don't believe me that black people believe that Jesus hence God is white, put it to a test. Ask you young children what color is God or Jesus. Ask any young black child this question. They are going to tell you that he is white if you ask them why is he white, they are going to say "I don't know" or shrug their shoulders. The reason why they don't know why they believe Jesus or God is white, is because they have been indoctrinated and told through subliminals that Jesus or God is white. A child is not conscious to subliminal affects.

Fine, you cannot fault the CHildren. That is all they know, all they have seen, all they have heard, all they have been taught.

Tell me one thing SISTA, IS THE BIBLE BLACK OR WHITE, im not talking about the paper book now, im talking THE BIBLE - WHOLE PICTURE.

Are you a Christian?

@Kimba

I will have to respond to you later because I have to go now. For sure I will be back to respond.

@nferniy,
My opinion on 'most' of seun's comment stands based on 'most' of his contributions on the religion forum; I don't need to explain it to you.

And you, an atheist, who has declared that the bible is anti-intellectual and anti-reasoning in your own understanding, attempting to dispute my elucidation on christian faith put's a strain on logic. How can you dispute what you do not know, have or understand? Even, if you had faith before and lost it when you became 'enlightened', then yours' was like the seed that fell by the way side or fell on shallow ground i.e no root because nobody taste of the truth of God and let go. Trials and tribulation might shake it, but not remove it.
Declaring that suppression of freethought is in the history of christianity is a clear indication that your mind is unable to comprehend my earlier post on what christianity really is; as contrasted to what or how it's been used before. I am not surprised at your asking me "what are the characteristics or principles of God"; it is in your 'anti-intellectual' bible but can only be decoded by a humble mind, not a haughty one. Maybe you've heard of the expression that 'people have eyes but yet they cannot see, they have ears but cannot ear'.
Now, if you still can't digest and be nourished from milk, how do we go to feeding you meat and bone?

Nferyn,

My apologies for using the word Controlled,what I mean is Europe has in most sense of the word abandoned the idea of a benevolent God solving the problems of society.Technology has given humans the ability to control the world they live in according to their desires,you can predict natural disasters and prepare for it.

Does religion stifle dabate and free speech?Look no futher,holier-than thou-members here are a stack reminder

@ Havila,
So basically you refuse to answer. Could that be because you don't have an answer, that you need to remain in your sheltered cocoon of faith?

Havila:

And you, an atheist, who has declared that the bible is anti-intellectual and anti-reasoning in your own understanding, attempting to dispute my elucidation on christian faith put's a strain on logic. How can you dispute what you do not know, have or understand?

It only reinforces the priorly held beliefs of those that already believe, it doesn't ellucidate at all, on the contrary, it only muddles the waters.

Havila:

Even, if you had faith before and lost it when you became 'enlightened', then yours' was like the seed that fell by the way side or fell on shallow ground i.e no root because nobody taste of the truth of God and let go. Trials and tribulation might shake it, but not remove it.

Yeah, define something out of existence. That's what theists are good at.

Havila:

Declaring that suppression of freethought is in the history of christianity is a clear indication that your mind is unable to comprehend my earlier post on what christianity really is; as contrasted to what or how it's been used before.

Do as I say, but - by God (pun intended) - don't do what I do. Self-professed Christians have been responsible for countless atrocities in the name of God and you know what, their Bible clearly and quite literally supported them, things like not suffering witches to live and slaying the unbelievers in front of Jesus' feet. Maybe you can look up the specific verses. You people just cherry pick from the nice parts of the Bible and ignore what's less pleasant.

Havila:

I am not surprised at your asking me "what are the characteristics or principles of God"; it is in your 'anti-intellectual' bible but can only be decoded by a humble mind, not a haughty one. Maybe you've heard of the expression that 'people have eyes but yet they cannot see, they have ears but cannot ear'.
Now, if you still can't digest and be nourished from milk, how do we go to feeding you meat and bone?

Of course, if you don't believe, you cannot understand and if you do believe you're no longer in need of that understanding. Circular reasoning at it's best. You're asking to have faith and when asked why to have faith, you say that you need to have faith before you can understand.

By the way, there's a consistent trend among theist debating me here to screw up my username. I wonder what the underlying cause is.

mrmayor,

Gotcha. You're spot on.

wow

I did not know this thread would generate such rhetorical thunderstorm

Everyone wants to defend his angle to the last
As if they would be "found wanting" if they failed to speak up - and that is exactly the problem. Many christians are doing because everyone else is doing it.

Methinks religion - christianity is the most abused stuff in the world

-  hypocrites use it to hide themselves
-  war mongers use to to rally support
-  hard core capitalists have found its the easiest route into people's pockets thus becoming stupendously rich

Christianity= confussuion and fraud(most especially in Nigeria) .

- hard core capitalists have found its the easiest route into people's pockets thus becoming stupendously rich

Hard core capitalists have a lot of integrity. We do not believe in the use of fraud to earn money. Business needs an atmosphere of mutual respect and trust to thrive. Hard core capitalists are very different from criminals.