Antiparticle:
The problem with @winner01's arguments is that he is mainly trolling theists and does not attempt whatsoever to explain logically why his god (Yahweh/Jesus) is real. He fails to explain why a logical and rational human should believe in the virgin birth, resurrection and miracle claims of the Bible (a book written mostly written by Bronze age desert inhabiters). He needs to explain why we should believe the Bible's extraordinary claims but not the equally extraordinary claims of other religions/deities.

He needs to justify the Old Testament actions of Yahweh commanding mass murder and infanticide left and right. He needs to help theists understand why Yahweh is a just god and is real.

But he won't do this, he insists on making correlational arguments that are all copy-and-paste and make no case for Christianity whatsoever.

What is copy and paste?
I am here to share my belief in God. Not with you, not with any other atheists. Whatever you think I need to do for you man, just keep expecting.
The singular claim i've made has made you all over the place: Religious minds have been more productive than atheistic minds. Instead of addressing that, you are busy appealing to the emotion of readers.

Let me add to your woes; If Isis, boko haram and all other islamic groups continue to kill people at this rate for the next 80 years, they stii would pale in comparison to the mass murders of atheism in the last 100 years alone. I've proved that in some of the links I posted here.

I've not and I'm not interested in proving God or the Bible to you or anyone. This is an avenue to share my belief in God as the picture below says, not to prove God. You should tell us if you are here to share your unbelief, you should tell us why you need people not to believe in God with you. I want to hope that you do not have a problem interpreting simple instructions.

To anyone reading this thread and wants to understand why winner01's argument that "religious minds have been more productive than atheistic minds" is a weak & fallacious point, here it goes:

Religion was psychologically soothing when humans had little knowledge about the mechanisms behind the workings of nature, and as a result most humans historically were religious. Scientists, mad men, murderers, good people, bad people, etc in Western Europe were almost all associated with the church because they either truly believed in the Christian god or they were culturally Christian.

Back in those days, I probably too would have been Christian because we (humanity) didn't at the time have enough information and freedom to debunk the Bible's claims. Now we know that Adam and Eve are invented stories (see evolution). Now we know that the resurrection story, virgin birth, miracle claims, and more are complete bullshiit. We now know that nature fundamentally is well ordered and can be rationally described mathematically. This is why a much smaller fraction of scientists today are Christian than four centuries ago.

As a matter of fact most of western Europe today is majority unreligious! A majority! Also, a large fraction of Silicon Valley engineers and innovators are straight up atheists. Mark Zuckerberg (Facebook) is atheist. Sergey Brin (Google) is not religious. Bill Gates (Microsoft) is not religious. Our own Seun Osewa (Nairaland) is atheist. As a matter of fact, according to the Pew Research Center, a much smaller fraction of American scientists believe in god/gods compared to the general public! The Pew Research Center is a credible polling organization, as opposed to the random cherry-picked Facebook posts that @winner01 keeps copy and pasting. I am a physicist/engineer and I live in a western country, and it is the rare exception to meet a religious person at the researcher level in the pure sciences (such as physics, evolutionary biology, etc).

The more scientifically advanced a country becomes, the less theistic it becomes. This is why the west has gotten more irreligious over the past century. This is inarguable fact. @winner01's correlations about the religion of medieval age scientists is just what it is, correlation without causality. I can come up with outrageous correlations associating religious people to mass murder (and there's a whole lot of proof for this), hypocrisy, and obstructionism towards science but there's no point doing this. What matters is that his religion is false and he can't defend it so he has to resort to ad hominem attacks and weak correlational arguments.

@winner01 says I should tell everyone why I need people to not believe in God, well he is Exhibit A for the damaging effects of religion. Religion makes it difficult to distinguish fantasy from reality. Religion dulls rational thinking. Certain Christian ideologies promote discrimination and hate (e.g. homophobia towards gay people, racism towards arabs, prejudice against people of other religions, slavery, etc). Christianity causes people to waste their time on ineffective activities (praying & fasting, sowing seed offerings which is a total scam, wasting intellectual capital twisting science to fit the Bible, etc). @winner01 is probably an otherwise talented individual, but with Christianity he has to expend intellectual capital twisting reality to fit the fantasy of the Bible.

In short, theism is an anachronism that is past its expiry date. That scientists today are significantly less religious (given that we now know a lot more about the universe) than they were in the archaic Middle Ages shows the fatal flaw in @winner01's logic and arguments.

Ranchhoddas:
It's easy for you to believe the OP but difficult to believe Hardmirror. You should understand that it's a two-way street. People are always going and coming. There is nothing special about your beliefs. It's just one of the thousands that abound. They are good coping mechansims. Deal with it.

HardMirror was never a Pastor. If he was, but has decided against God today, he won't have any need to be hiding. Why is he hiding and just castigating but refusing any reasonable debate with any Christian? Let him open his mouth and talk, let him use his knowledge, his vastness in the Pastoral office he held in the past, to debate us, then we will know if he indeed was a pastor or a fraud.
I called him up once to post his old links here with this Moniker when he was a Christian Pastor, let's see the kind of Christian Pastor he was before the Fall (if there was a fall).
Am certain he is a renown atheist in this forum who opened a new Moniker and is here talking rubbish which he can't defend. It's not enough to open threads and spew trash, but when called forth, he won't come out.

He claims he has been in Christ for years, let's then talk Christianity that he had known and worked within for years. The Internet is the world, he can copy any body's experience and post here passing it as his, but who even cares if he was an Ex-Pope anyway?
Judas was a disciple of Christ. All through Christ' Ministry Judas was present. When the Apostles where empowered to heal the sick, cast out demons, and the rest, Judas also did all that. He was there through out, listening to the same sermons like others, but he was a thief.
If Judas could betray Christ, who is HardMirror who am sure is not and has never known Christ?

HardMirror:

There are hundreds of well established pastors, evangelists etc who ended up being atheist. All I can say is, I sought the God with all my heart, I tried real hard not to give up on all the years of my assumed relationship with God, but in the end I had to yield to reason (common sense) for to believe in God, you have to allow your emotions make decisions for you and not your common sense.

Liar oshi, mention twenty out of these hundreds of Well established pastors/evangelists. When you sought God with all your heart, you found Him. That was when you were saved, baptised and gifted,remember? When you sought for what wasn't missing with the serpent is when you went down like Eve.

HardMirror:

There are hundreds of well established pastors, evangelists etc who ended up being atheist. All I can say is, I sought the God with all my heart, I tried real hard not to give up on all the years of my assumed relationship with God, but in the end I had to yield to reason (common sense) for to believe in God, you have to allow your emotions make decisions for you and not your common sense.

You tried hard not to give up on all the years of "YOUR ASSUMED" relationship with God? You assumed you were in a relationship with God? And yet you were a pastor? Do you listen to yourself? If you didn't know for sure who Jehovah was, how then did you know you had Christ in the first place?
If You ASSUMED you were in a relationship with Christ, how did you then get the CALL into ministry? How did you know your assignment on earth was to be a pastor?
For you to answer a Call into the Pastoral Ministry, you must have a means through which God communicates with you, which was yours?

Am not a pastor, and am not into any ministry, but God speaks to me through vivid dreams. How was he talking to you when you were a Pastor?

I have asked you before HardMirror, every believer who indeed is born again, has a testimony of redemption. What was yours?

There's always a point of reversal in everyone who truly is born again, What was yours?

At what point did you realize you were lost and needed saving?

What led to that realization? Who was your mentor or mentors who groomed your growth as a Christian?

HardMirror, are you married? If yes, is it possible for you to assume being married to your wife without really knowing, meeting and communicating with her?

If No, right now, can you assume being in any relationship with anyone without meeting and communicating with the lady or gay guy you are in a relationship with?

Are you sure you were not in a Marine cult called a "Church?"
For what is worth, you were a Tare in our midst, and now that you are gone, It's a pleasure to loose you.

winner01:
Give the names of those books please, i'm interested.

The Republic by Plato deals with 'forms of good'.

Aristotle dealt with what it means to be 'good'.

Aesop's Fables are a collection of tales with moral maxims, they predate the Jesus myth by at least 500 years.

Those authors based their theories on ideas that were already around at the time - several hundred years prior to the myth of Christ.

The Zororastrians also dealt with the matter of 'good' and 'evil' in their primary religious text - the Avesta, a book that is dated several hundred years prior to the earliest books of the Bible.

In the 20th century we had authors such as Betrand Russell who dwelt on the matter, amongst many others. I'm sure that you if you look in a book store or decent library you will find sufficient texts on philosophy that tackle the topic with far greater finesse and depth than the Bible.

I suggest that you broaden your reading, the Bible is far from the only or even the oldest text to raise the matter of morality. There were several before it and many after it. Most of the religions that came before Judaism and Christianity dealt with the matter in a non-linear, non-simplified manner.

Most of mankind's fables and fairy-tales deal with philosophical issues, the Bible is simply a continuation of that tradition. Sadly, some people have chosen to take children's tales literally.

Ranchhoddas:
So people do not convert from Christianity to Islam? Sometimes I wonder if you are mentally challenged or something.

Is this thread about interfaith conversions?

Antiparticle:
@winner01, this will be my last response to you.

All your claims (that Christianity and science are self re-enforcing) are transparently bogus and are based on the fallacy that correlation implies causation, which isn't true. I can't continue feeding you if you won't decide to rid yourself of these psychological biases.

Your responses, also, are full of bile and desperation. If your arguments were self sufficient, you wouldn't need to exhibit such vitriol towards the counterparty.

I'll let the neutral open-minded intelligent reader to decide which of us is making sense.

Well, have a good life.

**FYI, please learn to prepare logical arguments, and not ones that solely rely on correlation to imply causation. This is my problem with religion, it makes it difficult to distinguish fantasy from reality.

Poor guy. You consider yourself more intelligent than Winner01? What exactly have you been feeding him with? because he beats you into the mud at all points. Imaooo.

mmsen:
I'm guessing that Paul Kalanithi prayed for healing and that his family prayed that he would be able to see his daughter grow up.

Every child needs a father so why would an 'all loving', 'all knowing' god take a father away from his daughter?

Am sure you feel fulfilled now that you have succeeded in letting us know the kind of mind you have.
If you believed in God in the first place, then you should asked yourself, whose prerogative it is to do as he pleases, when he please with what belongs to him. Did God create man for Himself or for his children? When God wants to take what belongs to him, will he consult with his family members seeking their permission to do his will? BTW, how did you know the death came from God?
If you use death to judge God, then you are the best fool ever. For us Christians, death is nothing bad, it's a passage to eternity. They same eternity giving you atheists constipation.

Antiparticle:
To anyone reading this thread and wants to understand why winner01's argument that "religious minds have been more productive than atheistic minds" is a weak & fallacious point, here it goes:

Religion was psychologically soothing when humans had little knowledge about the mechanisms behind the workings of nature, and as a result most humans historically were religious. Scientists, mad men, murderers, good people, bad people, etc in Western Europe were almost all associated with the church because they either truly believed in the Christian god or they were culturally Christian.

Back in those days, I probably too would have been Christian because we (humanity) didn't at the time have enough information and freedom to debunk the Bible's claims. Now we know that Adam and Eve are invented stories (see evolution). Now we know that the resurrection story, virgin birth, miracle claims, and more are complete bullshiit. We now know that nature fundamentally is well ordered and can be rationally described mathematically. This is why a much smaller fraction of scientists today are Christian than four centuries ago.

As a matter of fact most of western Europe today is majority unreligious! A majority! Also, a large fraction of Silicon Valley engineers and innovators are straight up atheists. Mark Zuckerberg (Facebook) is atheist. Sergey Brin (Google) is not religious. Bill Gates (Microsoft) is not religious. Our own Seun Osewa (Nairaland) is atheist. As a matter of fact, according to the Pew Research Center, a much smaller fraction of American scientists believe in god/gods compared to the general public! The Pew Research Center is a credible polling organization, as opposed to the random cherry-picked Facebook posts that @winner01 keeps copy and pasting. I am a physicist/engineer and I live in a western country, and it is the rare exception to meet a religious person at the researcher level in the pure sciences (such as physics, evolutionary biology, etc).

The more scientifically advanced a country becomes, the less theistic it becomes. This is why the west has gotten more irreligious over the past century. This is inarguable fact. @winner01's correlations about the religion of medieval age scientists is just what it is, correlation without causality. I can come up with outrageous correlations associating religious people to mass murder (and there's a whole lot of proof for this), hypocrisy, and obstructionism towards science but there's no point doing this. What matters is that his religion is false and he can't defend it so he has to resort to ad hominem attacks and weak correlational arguments.

@winner01 says I should tell everyone why I need people to not believe in God, well he is Exhibit A for the damaging effects of religion. Religion makes it difficult to distinguish fantasy from reality. Religion dulls rational thinking. Certain Christian ideologies promote discrimination and hate (e.g. homophobia towards gay people, racism towards arabs, prejudice against people of other religions, slavery, etc). Christianity causes people to waste their time on ineffective activities (praying & fasting, sowing seed offerings which is a total scam, wasting intellectual capital twisting science to fit the Bible, etc). @winner01 is probably an otherwise talented individual, but with Christianity he has to expend intellectual capital twisting reality to fit the fantasy of the Bible.

In short, theism is an anachronism that is past its expiry date. That scientists today are significantly less religious (given that we now know a lot more about the universe) than they were in the archaic Middle Ages shows the fatal flaw in @winner01's logic and arguments.

Simply and brilliantly put.

analice107:

Am sure you feel fulfilled now that you have succeeded in letting us know the kind of mind you have.
If you believed in God in the first place, then you should asked yourself, whose prerogative it is to do as he pleases, when he please with what belongs to him. Did God create man for Himself or for his children? When God wants to take what belongs to him, will he consult with his family members seeking their permission to do his will? BTW, how did you know the death came from God?
If you use death to judge God, then you are the best fool ever. For us Christians, death is nothing bad, it's a passage to eternity. They same eternity giving you atheists constipation.

Where is the 'judgement' in my statement? I asked questions.

If death does not come from 'god' then he/she/it is not all powerful.

If he/she/it acts in an arbitrary manner without due consideration as to how it effects the living then he/she/it is not 'all loving'.

Antiparticle:
To anyone reading this thread and wants to understand why winner01's argument that "religious minds have been more productive than atheistic minds" is a weak & fallacious point, here it goes:

Religion was psychologically soothing when humans had little knowledge about the mechanisms behind the workings of nature, and as a result most humans historically were religious. Scientists, mad men, murderers, good people, bad people, etc in Western Europe were almost all associated with the church because they either truly believed in the Christian god or they were culturally Christian.

This is a baseless claim that holds no water. Religion was to many people in the olden days just as it is now. In this era when humans had little knowledge about the workings of nature, there were several people who did not believe in God. This idea of yours is a nothing but a desperate attempt to disprove the effects of christianity in the rise of science.

Antiparticle:

Back in those days, I probably too would have been Christian because we (humanity) didn't at the time have enough information and freedom to debunk the Bible's claims. Now we know that Adam and Eve are invented stories (see evolution). Now we know that the resurrection story, virgin birth, miracle claims, and more are complete bullshiit. We now know that nature fundamentally is well ordered and can be rationally described mathematically. This is why a much smaller fraction of scientists today are Christian than four centuries ago.

The information which has "liberated" you now, who are those that espoused much of them?
And who are the we that know that Adam and Eve are invented stories? . What is the proof of macro-evolution? Why are the important fossils that can take macro-evolution beyond reasonable doubt missing in all the important places?
Who are those that described nature? And why have the "scientists of today" not been able to establish equivalent feats acheived by the greatest scientists of old?

Antiparticle:

As a matter of fact most of western Europe today is majority unreligious! A majority! Also, a large fraction of Silicon Valley engineers and innovators are straight up atheists. Mark Zuckerberg (Facebook) is atheist. Sergey Brin (Google) is not religious. Bill Gates (Microsoft) is not religious. Our own Seun Osewa (Nairaland) is atheist. As a matter of fact, according to the Pew Research Center, a much smaller fraction of American scientists believe in god/gods compared to the general public! The Pew Research Center is a credible polling organization, as opposed to the random cherry-picked Facebook posts that @winner01 keeps copy and pasting. I am a physicist/engineer and I live in a western country, and it is the rare exception to meet a religious person at the researcher level in the pure sciences (such as physics, evolutionary biology, etc).
.

Western Europe owes its rise in power to christianity, even though some rebellious folks may try to hijack the glories acheived by their founding fathers.
Mark zuckerberg: Is an atheist but unlike you, he does not spend his life encouraging people not to believe in God, same goes with Sergey Brin.
Bill gates: Irreligiousity is not the same as atheism. In fact Bill gates admitted how sensible it is to believe in God. (source)
Seun osewa: At least, he spends his time to further his cause in his own way.

I dont know whether you want to make this about wealth but 56.2 percent of the worlds billionaires, identify themselves as Christians when asked about their faith (nonpartisan wealth research, 2015)

Antiparticle has resorted to lies as on the same link he posted, 51.8% scientists believe in God or higher powers. People can check the link by themselves HERE.

Some Scientists have admitted to feigning atheism to gain scientific recognition. I gave examples in the link to causes of atheism which i posted earlier.

Antiparticle:

The more scientifically advanced a country becomes, the less theistic it becomes. This is why the west has gotten more irreligious over the past century. This is inarguable fact. @winner01's correlations about the religion of medieval age scientists is just what it is, correlation without causality. I can come up with outrageous correlations associating religious people to mass murder (and there's a whole lot of proof for this), hypocrisy, and obstructionism towards science but there's no point doing this. What matters is that his religion is false and he can't defend it so he has to resort to ad hominem attacks and weak correlational arguments..

You have subtly shifted the goal post from atheism to irreligiousity. Irreligious countries are not atheist countries. You need to make up your mind instead of clinging on to science or irreligiousity to validate your claims. Countries that are also ruled by atheists today can be observed. North korea is a good example of what atheism can do to a country and its people.

Of course you can come up with proof associating religious people and mass murder. But you certainly cannot come up with proof associating religious people to mass murders of atheistic magnitude. The historical record of collective atheism is 182,716 times worse on an annual basis than Christianity’s worst and most infamous misdeed, the Spanish Inquisition. The average atheist crime against humanity is 18.3 million percent worse than the very worst depredation committed by Christians, even though atheists have had less than one-twentieth the number of opportunities with which to commit them. I have proved that in the links i posted. People can check out my threads too.

Those who are interested in how atheism has suppressed science can click HERE

You can not incite me to try to discuss my religion with you no matter what you type. I'm past all that. I know better than wasting my time on people who have closed their minds and feel they have a monopoly of reasoning.

Antiparticle:

@winner01 says I should tell everyone why I need people to not believe in God, well he is Exhibit A for the damaging effects of religion. Religion makes it difficult to distinguish fantasy from reality. Religion dulls rational thinking.

No proof whatsoever. Actually, the opposite is true. The fact that atheists repeat these lines everyday does not make it true. Today, we build on the products of religious minds. You need people not to believe in God with you because you are unsure of your stand and insecure. Only unbalanced individuals spend each day of their lives talking about "someone" that does not exist. There are studies that confirm the correlation between religion and mental health.


The prestigious Mayo Clinic found that religious involvement and spirituality are associated with better physical health and mental health outcomes

Religion has "enormous potential for lowering the risk of substance abuse among teens and adults," according to the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse

Antiparticle:
Certain Christian ideologies promote discrimination and hate (e.g. homophobia towards gay people, racism towards arabs, prejudice against people of other religions, slavery, etc)..

Christianity put smiles on peoples faces, I wont repeat myself, I've made this clear in my previous replies. Christ-ians are people who strive to be like christ. Whatsoever you claim christians do, can be judged from their standard, which is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ taught love, not to christians alone, but to everyone.
Atheism on the other hand has done absolutely nothing for the human race, except maybe democide.

Antiparticle:
Christianity causes people to waste their time on ineffective activities (praying & fasting, sowing seed offerings which is a total scam, wasting intellectual capital twisting science to fit the Bible, etc). .

They waste their time praying and still come out to be far more productive than atheists . Millions of people all over the world see the results of praying and fasting. We sow seeds into the lives of people and also to proclaim the Gospel of Christ. If you have problems with these, them i'm sorry, you will keep crying for longer than you expected.

Antiparticle:
@winner01 is probably an otherwise talented individual, but with Christianity he has to expend intellectual capital twisting reality to fit the fantasy of the Bible.

In short, theism is an anachronism that is past its expiry date. That scientists today are significantly less religious (given that we now know a lot more about the universe) than they were in the archaic Middle Ages shows the fatal flaw in @winner01's logic and arguments.

You can resort to ad hominems, Its what you do when your stand is shattered.

If theism is past its expiry date, you wont work yourself up so hard to fight it. . Its funny Voltaire said the same of christianity in 1778. 50 years after his death, the Geneva Bible Society used his house and printing press to produce stacks of Bibles.
Hundreds of years later, christianity is still stronger than ever.

cloudgoddess:

Simply and brilliantly put.

My sister, even your ancestors will be looking at this comment like:

.

winner01:
This is a baseless claim that holds no water. Religion was to many people in the olden days just as it is now. In this era when humans had little knowledge about the workings of nature, there were several people who did not believe in God. This idea of yours is a nothing but a desperate attempt to disprove the effects of christianity in the rise of science.

The information which has "liberated" you now, who are those that espoused much of them?
And who are the we that know that Adam and Eve are invented stories? . What is the proof of macro-evolution? Why are the important fossils that can take macro-evolution beyond reasonable doubt missing in all the important places?
Who are those that described nature? And why have the "scientists of today" not been able to establish equivalent feats acheived by the greatest scientists of old?

One of the oldest homo sapiens fossils is 160,000 years old, much older than the supposed ~6,000 years old that the Bible claims! This clearly debunks the Adam and Eve story. There are several other genetic and archaeological findings that have excavated other homo sapiens fossils that are within the 100,000 to 200,000 years old range.

You suggest that scientists have not been able to establish equivalent feats achieved by the greatest scientists of old! I'm about to laugh. What are you typing with? How are you communicating with me? Do you realize that there's more to know about the universe than we currently know? And do you realize that science has advanced significantly since the Middle Ages? Space travel, quantum mechanics, vaccines, antibiotics, and the like are incredible innovations that have vastly changed our quality of life.

In any case, you still keep making these indefensible correlational arguments.

winner01:
Western Europe owes its rise in power to christianity, even though some rebellious folks may try to hijack the glories acheived by their founding fathers.

Please pick up the book "Guns, Germs, and Steel" by Jared Diamond. Read up on history. This is another false correlational argument.

winner01:
Mark zuckerberg: Is an atheist but unlike you, he does not spend his life encouraging people not to believe in God, same goes with Sergey Brin.
Bill gates: Irreligiousity is not the same as atheism. In fact Bill gates admitted how sensible it is to believe in God. (source) Seun osewa: At least, he spends his time to further his cause in his own way.

I won't toot my own horn here, I'll leave it at that.

winner01:
I dont know whether you want to make this about wealth but 56.2 percent of the worlds billionaires, identify themselves as Christians when asked about their faith (nonpartisan wealth research, 2015)

Wealth can also be achieved through scamming poor people, manipulating capital markets, and more! This is another indefensible correlational argument.

winner01:
Antiparticle has resorted to lies as on the same link he posted, 51.8% scientists believe in God or higher powers. People can check the link by themselves HERE.

Intellectual dishonesty 101. I wrote that " a much smaller fraction of American scientists believe in god/gods compared to the general public!", you will see that ten times more American scientists don't believe in god/gods or a higher power vs the general public (41% to 4%). Also, you conveniently lump all religions or claims of believing in a higher power together when you want to make arguments for Christianity. This is classically disingenuous and dishonest. If you were debating a Zeus worshipper you would be arguing that he/she worshiping a false deity, yet in this debate you would dishonestly lump him/her into the same camp as you. You can't point out arbitrary correlations and use them to make indefensible arguments.

winner01:
Some Scientists have admitted to feigning atheism to gain scientific recognition. I gave examples in the link to causes of atheism which i posted earlier.

Ok, you really think anyone will take your points seriously after reading this?

winner01:
You have subtly shifted the goal post from atheism to irreligiousity. Irreligious countries are not atheist countries. You need to make up your mind instead of clinging on to science or irreligiousity to validate your claims. Countries that are also ruled by atheists today can be observed. North korea is a good example of what atheism can do to a country and its people.

Of course you can come up with proof associating religious people and mass murder. But you certainly cannot come up with proof associating religious people to mass murders of atheistic magnitude. The historical record of collective atheism is 182,716 times worse on an annual basis than Christianity’s worst and most infamous misdeed, the Spanish Inquisition. The average atheist crime against humanity is 18.3 million percent worse than the very worst depredation committed by Christians, even though atheists have had less than one-twentieth the number of opportunities with which to commit them. I have proved that in the links i posted. People can check out my threads too.

Correlation does not imply causation. Also, your data is cherry-picked and is purely correlational. I can do the same for all religions but nah!

winner01:
Those who are interested in how atheism has suppressed science can click HERE

You really think this is a credible website? This website (conservapedia) by the same Christian fundamentalists who fight against the teaching of the science of evolution in schools? The same Christian fundamentalists who attempt to teach the Genesis creation story as facts? You really don't expect me to take this seriously.

winner01:
You can not incite me to try to discuss my religion with you no matter what you type. I'm past all that. I know better than wasting my time on people who have closed their minds and feel they have a monopoly of reasoning.

Ok. Good for you. Stick with your correlational arguments.

winner01:
No proof whatsoever. Actually, the opposite is true. The fact that atheists repeat these lines everyday does not make it true. Today, we build on the products of religious minds. You need people not to believe in God with you because you are unsure of your stand and insecure. Only unbalanced individuals spend each day of their lives talking about "someone" that does not exist. There are studies that confirm the correlation between religion and mental health.

Correlation does not imply causation. Also, stop lumping all other religions together. If your religion is true, then defend it.

winner01:
The prestigious Mayo Clinic found that religious involvement and spirituality are associated with better physical health and mental health outcomes
Religion has "enormous potential for lowering the risk of substance abuse among teens and adults," according to the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse

The website you lifted these images from is conservapedia again, a discredited source. Correlation does not imply causation.

winner01:
Christianity put smiles on peoples faces, I wont repeat myself, I've made this clear in my previous replies. Christ-ians are people who strive to be like christ. Whatsoever you claim christians do, can be judged from their standard, which is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ taught love, not to christians alone, but to everyone.
Atheism on the other hand has done absolutely nothing for the human race, except maybe democide.

They waste their time praying and still come out to be far more productive than atheists . Millions of people all over the world see the results of praying and fasting. We sow seeds into the lives of people and also to proclaim the Gospel of Christ. If you have problems with these, them i'm sorry, you will keep crying for longer than you expected.

You can't invent your own "facts". Give the readers just one single example of how prayer and fasting has solved a real human problem like regrowth of an amputated limb. The readers are waiting.

Antiparticle:

Religion was psychologically soothing when humans had little knowledge about the mechanisms behind the workings of nature, and as a result most humans historically were religious. Scientists, mad men, murderers, good people, bad people, etc in Western Europe were almost all associated with the church because they either truly believed in the Christian god or they were culturally Christian.

While people have been christian for many selfish reasons in different ages till date, there is no truth to suggest that they were almost all christian in Western Europe. Christianity was a state religion in many places and that made it popular, but they were not almost all christian at any time, except you do not know what christianity is.

Back in those days, I probably too would have been Christian because we (humanity) didn't at the time have enough information and freedom to debunk the Bible's claims. Now we know that Adam and Eve are invented stories (see evolution). Now we know that the resurrection story, virgin birth, miracle claims, and more are complete bullshiit. We now know that nature fundamentally is well ordered and can be rationally described mathematically. This is why a much smaller fraction of scientists today are Christian than four centuries ago.

There are professors and intelligent people who are still christian today. Being christian is not PRIMARILY a thing to do with intellect or science or intelligence. Evolution does not disprove Adam and Eve in any way. Nothing is yet to show that the resurrection story, virgin birth, miracle claims, and more are complete bullshiit. All that is talk, a lot of noise.

As a matter of fact most of western Europe today is majority unreligious! A majority! Also, a large fraction of Silicon Valley engineers and innovators are straight up atheists. Mark Zuckerberg (Facebook) is atheist. Sergey Brin (Google) is not religious. Bill Gates (Microsoft) is not religious. Our own Seun Osewa (Nairaland) is atheist. As a matter of fact, according to the Pew Research Center, a much smaller fraction of American scientists believe in god/gods compared to the general public! The Pew Research Center is a credible polling organization, as opposed to the random cherry-picked Facebook posts that @winner01 keeps copy and pasting. I am a physicist/engineer and I live in a western country, and it is the rare exception to meet a religious person at the researcher level in the pure sciences (such as physics, evolutionary biology, etc).

It is a rare exception to meet a terrorist who is a true christian too. What exactly are you saying? The fact is that birds of the same feather tend to flock together, however, there is no sphere of life and influence where you do not see acclaimed religious people. They are everywhere, rare or not.

The more scientifically advanced a country becomes, the less theistic it becomes. This is why the west has gotten more irreligious over the past century. This is inarguable fact. @winner01's correlations about the religion of medieval age scientists is just what it is, correlation without causality. I can come up with outrageous correlations associating religious people to mass murder (and there's a whole lot of proof for this), hypocrisy, and obstructionism towards science but there's no point doing this. What matters is that his religion is false and he can't defend it so he has to resort to ad hominem attacks and weak correlational arguments.

It is also in the Bible, duh. People tend not to trust in God but in their power and ability when they have it. There are so many warnings on that in scriptures, BECAUSE that is the tendency. It is not strange.

@winner01 says I should tell everyone why I need people to not believe in God, well he is Exhibit A for the damaging effects of religion. Religion makes it difficult to distinguish fantasy from reality. Religion dulls rational thinking. Certain Christian ideologies promote discrimination and hate (e.g. homophobia towards gay people, racism towards arabs, prejudice against people of other religions, slavery, etc). Christianity causes people to waste their time on ineffective activities (praying & fasting, sowing seed offerings which is a total scam, wasting intellectual capital twisting science to fit the Bible, etc). @winner01 is probably an otherwise talented individual, but with Christianity he has to expend intellectual capital twisting reality to fit the fantasy of the Bible.

Religion did not do all the listed to Sir Isaac Newton, find another excuse. No christian ideology promotes hate BTW. Atheism makes people waste their very soul and eternity. There are many talented people all over the world and successful people who CLAIM that some god/God is the source and reason for what they achieve. Being christian doesn't make you untalented or whatever rubbish you are saying.

In short, theism is an anachronism that is past its expiry date. That scientists today are significantly less religious (given that we now know a lot more about the universe) than they were in the archaic Middle Ages shows the fatal flaw in @winner01's logic and arguments.

blablabla. Some fellow said this many centuries ago, he's dead, gone, forgotten, and of course in hell.

mmsen:


Where is the 'judgement' in my statement? I asked questions.

If death does not come from 'god' then he/she/it is not all powerful.

If he/she/it acts in an arbitrary manner without due consideration as to how it effects the living then he/she/it is not 'all loving'.

Since He is sovereign doing absolutely as He please, when he please, and how He please, what are you then going to do about it? Kill Him? because your blabs don't leave your mind or even when you speak them out, they can't hurt a rat in your one room face me i face you quarters. What will you do?

HardMirror:

There are hundreds of well established pastors, evangelists etc who ended up being atheist. All I can say is, I sought the God with all my heart, I tried real hard not to give up on all the years of my assumed relationship with God, but in the end I had to yield to reason (common sense) for to believe in God, you have to allow your emotions make decisions for you and not your common sense.

If you mean God as in JESUS CHRIST, I will like to tell you that you are not led by your emotions/feelings nor allow your emotions to make decisions for you but the Holy Spirit of GOD

analice107:

Since He is sovereign doing absolutely as He please, when he please, and how He please, what are you then going to do about it? Kill Him? because your blabs don't leave your mind or even when you speak them out, they can't hurt a rat in your one room face me i face you quarters. What will you do?

If you believe that God does as He pleases then why do you pray?

Image123:


While people have been christian for many selfish reasons in different ages till date, there is no truth to suggest that they were almost all christian in Western Europe. Christianity was a state religion in many places and that made it popular, but they were not almost all christian at any time, except you do not know what christianity is.



There are professors and intelligent people who are still christian today. Being christian is not PRIMARILY a thing to do with intellect or science or intelligence. Evolution does not disprove Adam and Eve in any way. Nothing is yet to show that the resurrection story, virgin birth, miracle claims, and more are complete bullshiit. All that is talk, a lot of noise.



It is a rare exception to meet a terrorist who is a true christian too. What exactly are you saying? The fact is that birds of the same feather tend to flock together, however, there is no sphere of life and influence where you do not see acclaimed religious people. They are everywhere, rare or not.



It is also in the Bible, duh. People tend not to trust in God but in their power and ability when they have it. There are so many warnings on that in scriptures, BECAUSE that is the tendency. It is not strange.


Religion did not do all the listed to Sir Isaac Newton, find another excuse. No christian ideology promotes hate BTW. Atheism makes people waste their very soul and eternity. There are many talented people all over the world and successful people who CLAIM that some god/God is the source and reason for what they achieve. Being christian doesn't make you untalented or whatever rubbish you are saying.


blablabla. Some fellow said this many centuries ago, he's dead, gone, forgotten, and of course in hell.

How come the fellow is in hell and Satan and his demons who caused the whole problem are still roaming about?

Ranchhoddas:
How come the fellow is in hell and Satan and his demons who caused the whole problem are still roaming about?

Na so we see am oh, no be me put am there. Are you confused with the reality or the morality? Jefferson is in Prison, Atiku is enjoying, lol. Is it real, is it moral?

Image123:


Na so we see am oh, no be me put am there. Are you confused with the reality or the morality? Jefferson is in Prison, Atiku is enjoying, lol. Is it real, is it moral?

Both. The morality especially.

Ranchhoddas:
Both. The morality especially.

Well as you can see, it happens here on earth, so nothing strange about the reality. About the morality, i'm not in charge of that one. Who is the source of your morality, God is my own source. So your guess is as good as mine, whatever He does is lovely.
Also, satan is a spirit, already deposed of powers and judged, just that he is yet to start his sentence. Man is man, and his own judgement time starts after death. Is it moral for man to be pregnant for 9months, while some other animal is pregnant for 30months? They are not the same class, i think.

Image123:


Well as you can see, it happens here on earth, so nothing strange about the reality. About the morality, i'm not in charge of that one. Who is the source of your morality, God is my own source. So your guess is as good as mine, whatever He does is lovely.
Also, satan is a spirit, already deposed of powers and judged, just that he is yet to start his sentence. Man is man, and his own judgement time starts after death. Is it moral for man to be pregnant for 9months, while some other animal is pregnant for 30months? They are not the same class, i think.

If he has been deposed of his powers why then are you and your ilk always tormented by demons? What is the point of your endless night vigils? What are you always binding and casting? Your story does not add up. The source of my morality by the way is my conscience.

Ranchhoddas:
If he has been deposed of his powers why then are you and your ilk always tormented by demons? What is the point of your endless night vigils? What are you always binding and casting? Your story does not add up. The source of my morality by the way is my conscience.

i said deposed of powers, i did not say deposed of ALL his powers. i am not tormented by demons. i do not have endless night vigils, but people have the right to. Your source of morality is very poor BTW. i know someone whose conscience thinks it is okay to kill homosexuals.

Image123:


i said deposed of powers, i did not say deposed of ALL his powers. i am not tormented by demons. i do not have endless night vigils, but people have the right to. Your source of morality is very poor BTW. i know someone whose conscience thinks it is okay to kill homosexuals.

Mine doesn't tell me to kill anyone. So it's good enough for me.What powers were the bogeyman deposed of since he can still apparently go on sprees.

.

Ranchhoddas:
If you believe that God does as He pleases then why do you pray?

Dependence, trust, and obedience.
Guy, stay off my mention.

analice107:

Dependence, trust, and obedience.
Guy, stay off my mention.

So you pray knowing fully well that your prayers aren't going to be answered. No wonder... You should scroll up though. You quoted me first. Twice actually.

winner01:
Thank you Sir, you just confirmed my claims; How else can you fight God, but to pretend He does not exist..
We see death as a transition to glory. Death is painful no doubt and at times one may not understand why. But to conclude that God does not exist because people die is not rational. The Bible is the only book that gives a rational explanation on the origin and existence of evil. No other book on philosophy carefully takes care of this. If the Bible was really written by mere humans, then i'm willing to know what kind of superhuman intelligence they possessed.

IMO, I think the atheists are not actually saying that there is no possibility of God's existence, but rather, all the so-called gods are not the GOD OF THE UNIVERSE. That's why you see atheists requesting for clear evidence of a true GOD(not gods).

I have an answer for all atheists, THERE IS GOD WHO CREATED THE UNIVERSE WITH A BIG BANG. HE CREATED THE FIRST HOMOS WHOM PEOPLE NOW KNOW AS Gods(e.g Vishnu, Jehovah(Allah), Odin, Olorun, Oghene, Jupiter, Mercury, etc.)

THE NAME OF THE GOD WHO CREATED THE UNIVERSE WITH A BIG BANG IS 'LORD'. HE HAS NO PERSONAL NAME, BUT FOR DIFFERENTIATION SAKE, I AM BEING INSTRUCTED TO USE 'DOMINO REVERAD'.

our God does not require WORSHIP FROM ANYONE. HE DOES NOT KILL. HE HAS COMMITTED THE AFFAIRS OF ALL HIS STARS AND PLANETS TO NATURE AND NATURE IS WHAT GIVES MIRACLES, HEALINGS, ETC.

that's why no matter the religion you put yourself in, when the time comes for nature to MANIFEST, IT MANIFESTS AND NO ONE CAN STOP IT.

dead people has risen by the power of NATURE. Mad people has been restored by the power of nature. I AM A TESTIMONY OF HOW NATURE BRINGS ABOUT GREAT CHANGE IN MY LIFE AFTER WALKING OUT OF THE RELIGION OF BONDAGE(CHRISTIANITY) MADE BY jehovah/jesus, one of the first sets of HOMOS created by DOMINO REVERAD OUR GOD in the periods of the NEANDERTHALS and HOMINIDS.

[s]

Antiparticle:
One of the oldest homo sapiens fossils is 160,000 years old, much older than the supposed ~6,000 years old that the Bible claims! This clearly debunks the Adam and Eve story. There are several other genetic and archaeological findings that have excavated other homo sapiens fossils that are within the 100,000 to 200,000 years old range.

You suggest that scientists have not been able to establish equivalent feats achieved by the greatest scientists of old! I'm about to laugh. What are you typing with? How are you communicating with me? Do you realize that there's more to know about the universe than we currently know? And do you realize that science has advanced significantly since the Middle Ages? Space travel, quantum mechanics, vaccines, antibiotics, and the like are incredible innovations that have vastly changed our quality of life.

In any case, you still keep making these indefensible correlational arguments.

Please pick up the book "Guns, Germs, and Steel" by Jared Diamond. Read up on history. This is another false correlational argument.


I won't toot my own horn here, I'll leave it at that.

Wealth can also be achieved through scamming poor people, manipulating capital markets, and more! This is another indefensible correlational argument.


Intellectual dishonesty 101. I wrote that " a much smaller fraction of American scientists believe in god/gods compared to the general public!", you will see that ten times more American scientists don't believe in god/gods or a higher power vs the general public (41% to 4%). Also, you conveniently lump all religions or claims of believing in a higher power together when you want to make arguments for Christianity. This is classically disingenuous and dishonest. If you were debating a Zeus worshipper you would be arguing that he/she worshiping a false deity, yet in this debate you would dishonestly lump him/her into the same camp as you. You can't point out arbitrary correlations and use them to make indefensible arguments.

Ok, you really think anyone will take your points seriously after reading this?

Correlation does not imply causation. Also, your data is cherry-picked and is purely correlational. I can do the same for all religions but nah!

You really think this is a credible website? This website (conservapedia) by the same Christian fundamentalists who fight against the teaching of the science of evolution in schools? The same Christian fundamentalists who attempt to teach the Genesis creation story as facts? You really don't expect me to take this seriously.

Ok. Good for you. Stick with your correlational arguments.

Correlation does not imply causation. Also, stop lumping all other religions together. If your religion is true, then defend it.

The website you lifted these images from is conservapedia again, a discredited source. Correlation does not imply causation.

You can't invent your own "facts". Give the readers just one single example of how prayer and fasting has solved a real human problem like regrowth of an amputated limb. The readers are waiting.

[/s]

This guy is very dishonest and its obvious winner01 's arguments and responses are intellectually superior . You clearly said that you wont respond again and the fact that you keep responding means that winner01 's arguments refute your puerile specious arguments - you are uneasy and have the compulsive need to respond .

To be laconic , you are losing this argument so badly . I'm enjoying the uneasiness though . Nice thread bro . Logic and reason will always prevail over atheism's foolishness

Thanks, sister.

cloudgoddess:
Simply and brilliantly put.