AnonyNymous:
One of the first passages that led to my unbelief was as a 10 year old kid, reading the story of the Pharaoh and the Egyptians. . . I mean, your god supposedly 'hardened' his heart, and then punished him for making decisions with the 'hard' heart. . . going as far as to kill Pharaoh Rameses innocent first born son who had no influence in his father's decision. Why did he do all that? To show off how powerful he was. What a twisted and evil thing to do.

AnonyNymous:
One of the first passages that led to my unbelief was as a 10 year old kid, reading the story of the Pharaoh and the Egyptians. . . I mean, your god supposedly 'hardened' his heart, and then punished him for making decisions with the 'hard' heart. . . going as far as to kill Pharaoh Rameses innocent first born son who had no influence in his father's decision. Why did he do all that? To show off how powerful he was. What a twisted and evil thing to do.

analice107:

its well oo.
So all Pharaoh did before Moses appeared in the scene has no significance to you?
Let me ask you this, What led to Moses being raised in Pharaohs' Palace?

Its is very wrong to be bias ooo.
For many Centuries the Israeli male Children were being killed by Pharaoh, to you it was alright. The Pharaoh turned every Israeli to a slave used them to build their cities for 430years. It wasn't God who hardened his heart to do all that sir.

Its wrong to only look at the effect and neglect the causes. Something always happens for something else to happen.

You became an atheist because God Hardened Pharaoh's heart not to let his people go? After 430 yrs of Tyranny and cruelty to fellow humans, you are angry that judgment was mitted out to Pharaoh?

So, Pharaoh's son was much more precious to Pharaoh that the Israeli Boys were to their parents right?

This is what your stance imply, "the Muslims have been killing Christians for as long as there has been Islam in Nigeria, but Christians don't retaliate, If God commands the Christians today retaliate, you'll call God wicked for asking the Christians to retaliate".


What goes around, Comes around. what you sow is exactly what you'll reap.

See what we are doing here, we shall be judged and rewarded.

AnonyNymous:

Look, I'm not even talking about what pharaoh did. Nobody said it was right. But why should you continue to force his heart to be hardened so that you can punish him for things that you're making him do. Not to talk of that, the innocent Egyptian children that were killed! So Thats how your god responds, he responds to evil with his own evil?

An2elect2:
Hardened does not mean to make one's heart more evil. No.

The bible made us understand that the heart of man is desperately wicked, and no one can understand it.
From this we can understand that man is capable of carrying out any kind of evil even ones that are unimagined. But what has men not consume themselves even when their hearts are full of wickedness? It is the restraining hand of God upon men.

God retrains many men from fully doing what is in their hearts and does not restrain others as much. When God ceases to restrain a man from acting upon his evil thoughts, he heart becomes hardened.

God's restraining hand was upon Pharaoh for a while then (even though he was already unleashing terror on God's people). At that time, there was a limit God allowed Pharaoh not to go beyond, but when the time was ripe for God to fulfil His promises, God let go His strong restraining arm on pharaoh's sinful heart. And pharaoh was hardened

AnonyNymous:

Nice attempt to re-define the word 'harden'.
"But the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he did not listen to them"

An2elect2:
No if you have studied the bible well you will appreciate the need for context when trying to understand.
There are so many symbolic meanings in scripture one cannot overlook. Pharaoh was no different from other men and is not different from us today. He had the same heart, the bible described as hard and unmoved. He had the same old unwilling and disobedient spirit that stubbornly rejects the commands and instructions of God.

But this God's promise to all men in Christ
Ezekiel 36:26;
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh

What am i saying? If we literally interpret the "hardened" in this scenario we would be forced to accept man has a soft and obedient heart which is contrary to the fundamental teaching of the scripture; which teaches that man's heart is hard already

Emusan:


That's the problem with you people, you can only pick where God said He will harden Pharaoh's heart but fail to agree with the part of what happened before God made that statement.

Sorry bro, you chose to be unbelieved!

AnonyNymous:

I, for one, do not believe that men are born with evil/wicked hearts. But you do. Well, Thats good for you. But it seriously beats me why there has to be so much effort to justify and re-explain the bible. If your god really existed, according to the qualities and descriptions you ascribe to him, he'd make it simple and clear. Just as you are making a serious attempt to justify your god hardening Pharaoh's heart, people do the same to justify walking around naked, being gay, and so much more.

An2elect2:
Lol. Well the ignorance of a thing does not stop it from existing. It only makes one vulnerable and very unready for what is coming upon him. He cant even escape the consequences of his unbelief.

Whether we like it or not or even deny it, the heart is evil and wicked. Even our greatest "good" (which is not good enough for God) is stained with so much selfishness and pride.

When it comes to God, the submissive heart must be willing to accept how God had chosen to reveal himself. And also ready to accept that God cannot be fully understood by man, his character not fully grasped by the mind.

He must also know how to run His world according to His counsel whether it makes sense to our carnal minds or not. He has secrets, deep secrets we cannot understand.

God makes himself clear to whomever he wants to. And is under no obligation to make himself clear to anyone.

Why is it so? because God made everything for himself The world is God-centred and not man-centred. When the holy spirit reveals this to us, it makes us submit to the power and sovereign will of God, and puts us at mercy before God

Lennycool:

The religious will always try to justify the unspeakable when it comes to their God. If God had so much power why didn't he just kill the pharaoh or magically teleport the Israelites since anything is possible for him. God does not exist

AnonyNymous:

Oh no, don't be mistaken, that isn't my argument as to why the Christian god doesn't exist. . .I was merely stating one of the first things that sparked my curiosity.
I don't 'believe' things. I see proof and get convinced.
In your own little world you find solace in justifying the combined writings of Israelite cattle rearers and medieval scholars. Thats good for you, as long as you don't harm anyone else because of it.

An2elect2:
No one believes without evidence. There are two types of evidence; 1, The unseen evidence and the 2, The seen evidence.

False religions teach us to believe without any evidence but God cannot make you serve Him without conviction.

He must convince/convict you before you become His. This cannot be seen by men but only the result of your conviction can they see

AnonyNymous:

Well, Allah has also shown his followers proof, so have Amaterasu, Isis and Osiris, Zeus, etc.
For some reason, all the gods (including Jehovah) don't seem interested in showing me proof. Maybe its already in his plan that I will burn forever, maybe thats been predestined. As this thread is trying to explain 'we don't have free will'.
One more thing,
ev·i·dence - /ˈevədəns/
noun
1. the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
'Evidence' cannot be 'unseen'. It has to be readily available.

An2elect2:
Lol What's more interesting? That you may not explain these proofs you say other gods have shown their followers. Or that no one readily and joyfully testifies of the goodness and truth of his God except the Christian. He is always quick to tell you to taste and see that his God is good. Because truth makes it bearers bold and willing to die for.

Evidence can be seen and unseen. Unseen by all but only seen by you. Because it happens within you, when your Spirit is enlightened/awaken. You cannot be unaware of it even if you choose to deny it (Lol you wont even deny it)

Evidence is not readily available when it comes to faith. God wills in eternity when things should be and makes it come to pass in time

An2elect2:
Lol What's more interesting? That you may not explain these proofs you say other gods have shown their followers. Or that no one readily and joyfully testifies of the goodness and truth of his God except the Christian. He is always quick to tell you to taste and see that his God is good. Because truth makes it bearers bold and willing to die for.

Evidence can be seen and unseen. Unseen by all but only seen by you. Because it happens within you, when your Spirit is enlightened/awaken. You cannot be unaware of it even if you choose to deny it (Lol you wont even deny it)

Evidence is not readily available when it comes to faith. God wills in eternity when things should be and makes it come to pass in time

cloudgoddess:

That is called personal, subjective experience, not evidence. Please learn the meaning of evidence.

If someone walked up to you and said Zeus appeared to them in a dream, and that that was evidence for Zeus's existence, you wouldn't believe them (& for good reason). So why should anyone believe the same about the Jewish god? If you don't have hard evidence, just your feelings and emotions & mental images, then your beliefs are no more valid than anyone who believes in any other gods, supernatural entities, or mythical creatures.

AnonyNymous:

So according to you, I just have to wait for god. Ok
And be sure I'm not hallucinating. Or that god isn't taking credit for my hard work.
And what you said is not true though, many religions 'testify' the goodness and benevolence of their gods.

An2elect2:
No i didn't say wait for any "god"… I have been talking about God since.

Many followers of other religions "testify"? I bet that's what you mean? because a religion cannot testify. May i know them and how?

Lennycool:

The religious will always try to justify the unspeakable when it comes to their God. If God had so much power why didn't he just kill the pharaoh or magically teleport the Israelites since anything is possible for him. God does not exist

AnonyNymous:

There are enough a simple google search would help you find. Even otemanuduno on here testifies the greatness and miracles performed by 'Domino Reverad'

analice107:

its well oo.
So all Pharaoh did before Moses appeared in the scene has no significance to you?
Let me ask you this, What led to Moses being raised in Pharaohs' Palace?

Its is very wrong to be bias ooo.
For many Centuries the Israeli male Children were being killed by Pharaoh, to you it was alright. The Pharaoh turned every Israeli to a slave used them to build their cities for 430years. It wasn't God who hardened his heart to do all that sir.

Its wrong to only look at the effect and neglect the causes. Something always happens for something else to happen.

You became an atheist because God Hardened Pharaoh's heart not to let his people go? After 430 yrs of Tyranny and cruelty to fellow humans, you are angry that judgment was mitted out to Pharaoh?

So, Pharaoh's son was much more precious to Pharaoh that the Israeli Boys were to their parents right?

This is what your stance imply, "the Muslims have been killing Christians for as long as there has been Islam in Nigeria, but Christians don't retaliate, If God commands the Christians today retaliate, you'll call God wicked for asking the Christians to retaliate".


What goes around, Comes around. what you sow is exactly what you'll reap.

See what we are doing here, we shall be judged and rewarded.

AnonyNymous:

Nice attempt to re-define the word 'harden'.
"But the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he did not listen to them"

An2elect2:
You see i am not talking of miracles. Even the devil can perform a lot. I am talking of the knowledge of the truth. If i have to Google search if other followers testify then they are not testifying since i have never seen or heard any one cry out like the Christian who is always hungry to share the truth even when it seems he has nothing from it

AnonyNymous:
Ever heard the phrase 'Allahu Akbar'? What do you think it means?

An2elect2:
No i don't. What does it mean?

AnonyNymous:

Its Arabic for 'god is the greatest'. Not a day passes that I don't hear that phrase. In fact, Boko Haram are using force to make everyone proclaim that (albeit violently).
*****
If you think Christians are the only one testifying about the god/gods they serve then you are wrong. Let me tell you a fact, you're only a Christian because of where you were born. If you had been born into some Eastern country, you probably would be Hindu or Buddhist by now.