i have little, infact no regard for a 2faced confused ignorant individual.
Abuzola, did u say Jesus was a fraud?
Yet ur Quran acknowledges him, not just as a prophet but as not A messiah but THE Messiah.
So wat r u on about, tot u said U pple believe in Jesus too,
so u believe in a Fraud? I hope all is well witya o.
Secondly, how come u only quote the bible tho ignorantly to push ur weak arguement.
And when u see other parts of the same bible u quoted as support quoted in the right context
u start spewin garbage? The bible is only right when u myopically USE it erronously?

Blood sacrifice: if both religion to some extent believe there's sth Unique n special bout jesus,
knowin d sacifice of dove, animal and all sort of common animals as practiced earlier culd take the sins of a Nation
how much more will the precious blood of jesus cleans from our unrighteousness
The simplicity of d gospel is a trouble for many who will rather toil for what they cant humanly attain
rather than accept a free gift of salvation.
So, as it's written: "How can we escape if we neglet such a way of salvation"
It irks me when pple just suddenly act/talk d fool cos they pushin an argument.
oNe

Now to the question:
why do we suffer for Adam &Eve's sin, with the view of the quote
According to the book of Deuteronomy 24: 16 Which says. .

The fathers shall not be put ot death for the children,
neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers;
every man shall be put to death for his own sin. .
Lemme try and give u an example tho very pedestian:
the head of state/president aligns with or signs anythin that culd bring sanctions,
tho he signed it but we'l all pay for his error, even tho we did not sign.
Adam was like a fedral head of humanity so d result of his action will be felt by all.
That is one part.
Now there is individual responsibility, so if u as an individual traffic drug, U will be prosecuted, not the state u r from but U
the government of d country wont try Nigeria, or because of that deny ur brother or sister visa but U d drug trafficker.
But Christ has redemmed us from that curse becos he just like adam came in a representative capacity, the reason he was
called The 2Nd Adam,d life giving spirit.

VIOLENCE: yea, there has been religoius war from different religions. Pple go to war when emotion rises and they anger or sth.
Most politically and control motivated, but that has changed for some religions. While some are waxin stronger propelled by the absordity of a fantasy promise.
PPle fite always for different reason, but when u support ur mayhem or ur killing is backed by ur religious book, i hav issues with that.

Abuzola 1:

jesus never intend to die, look how he was troubled and prayed to God to remove the cup of crucifiction,
'Then jesus went with them to a place called Gethsemane and he said to his disciples,'sit here while i go wonder and pray' and taking with him peter and two sons of Zebedee , he began to be sorrowful and troubled.
Then he said to them,'my soul is sorrowful even to death,
remain here and watch with me.
And going a little further he fell on his face (like the muslim do) and prayed,'my father if this is possible, remove this cup pass from me, nevertheless not as i will but as thou will'

mathew 26:36-39

because he knew what it was all about, he knew the prophesy concernin his redemptive work.
He understood d enormous burden and sorrow unto death the experience will be. Takin the sin
of humanity upon oneself is the only thing that can make him be so troubled, it aint easy and he admitted it.
BUT, ABUZOLA
here u go again quotin d scripture, but earlier u said he didnt even die!
Cos further in d book u quoted his death, burial and resurection was documented.
So dont u think u r sooooo distorted and fragmented in ur understanding??
So i ask again hope all is well wit u?
oNe

It bothers me that there are a considerable number of people that believe that a child can be born sinful without any proof of how and why.

I've got a feeling that such damning of babies from the word go is not to far removed from the child abuse that occurs in some parts of nigeria by churches claiming that children are witches.

I think a distinction should also be made between a potential-for-evil and actually-being-evil.

Pastor AIO:

Yes, I think that Christians should familiarise themselves with the works of St. Augustine because a lot of stuff  

Sorry am not a theologian, but a fellower of Jesus Christ. Well i personally as a christian i think bible answers all my questions abt what i believe. i don't need to read a book of a man who forced his views or beliefs unto others in the name of religion.
Bible told us that the word christain originated from Anthioc. The bible also made it clear that the people of Anthioc saw the life Christ in his disciples and called them Christians(Christ like) for the first time. Jesus never forced his belief nor his gospel on anyone. So anybody that forces, fight or kill people in the name of fighting for Christianity or for the gospel of Christ is never a true christain. Check him well, he must be fighting for self course.
For 3 year ministry of Jesus Christ he had only 12 disciples in the Israel.  he never forced nor fought for anyone to believe or accept his gospel. But guess what he kept on preaching with his only 12 disciples, he new that he only plants but the father waters it. What happend when he left? 12 disciples transformed to millions of his disciples we have today.

Pastor AIO:

Every major religion is guilty of condemning, attacking and killing anyone who doesn't share their belief. Not just Islam.
I cant remember the last time a christain killed someone jst becoz he didn't accept Jesus as his/her lord and saviour, neither do remember the last time someone was stone to death or wiped with lashes jst becoz he/she sinned god/Alah.
In fact Jesus thought us a good lesson of That when they brought an adulterous woman to him. They thought he would condemn the woman to death, but you know what he did.
So any body in history,  presently, or in future fighting, attacking and killing people in the name of Christianity is not fighting for Christ but his/her self course.

That is the clear difference between Muslims and Christians. We boldly condemn such acts openly, but Muslims treat such people as their religious heroes, as such encourages young people to blow themselves up together with those who doesn't accept their teachings. Jst as my brother Abuzola would have blown many up here on Nairaland if he were to meet them face to face all in the name of religion.

princekevo:


I cant remember the last time a christain killed someone jst becoz he didn't accept Jesus as his/her lord and saviour, neither do remember the last time someone was stone to death or wiped with lashes jst becoz he/she sinned god/Alah.
In fact Jesus thought us a good lesson of That when they brought an adulterous woman to him. They thought he would condemn the woman to death, but you know what he did.
So any body in history, presently, or in future fighting, attacking and killing people in the name of Christianity is not fighting for Christ but his/her self course.

That is the clear difference between Muslims and Christians. We boldly condemn such acts openly, but Muslims treat such people as their religious heroes, as such encourages young people to blow themselves up together with those who doesn't accept their teachings. Jst as my brother Abuzola would have blown many up here on Nairaland if he were to meet them face to face all in the name of religion.

Right, it seems that you are not familiar with the history of christianity. Try this one for size:

The Very first crusade was called the Albigensian crusade. Christian soldiers descended on the south of France and killed everybody because they were not christians but Cathars. When it was reported back to Pope Innocent that some of the people being slaughtered weren't Cathars but christians, do you know what the Pope responded.
"Kill them anyway, The Lord will recognise his own when they get to the other side" (I paraphrase).

And as regards the comparison with Islam, did you know that when the Arab conquests were going on the Arabs refused to convert any of the conquered peoples to Islam. This was because they imposed a heavy tax on the people but Moslem were exempt from the taxes or paid less tax. It followed that the more people you converted, the less tax revenue you earned. Conversion was not good for imperialism.

Arab Conquest wasn't to spread Islam, it was to create a political empire.

All these major religions seek converts when they are weak or when there is politcal advantage in making conversions. Once it is politically disadvantageous they suddenly become very reluctant to convert you to their religion. It becomes an insiders thing.

princekevo:

Sorry am not a theologian, but a fellower of Jesus Christ. Well i personally as a christian i think bible answers all my questions abt what i believe. i don't need to read a book of a man who forced his views or beliefs unto others in the name of religion.
Bible told us that the word christain originated from Anthioc. The bible also made it clear that the people of Anthioc saw the life Christ in his disciples and called them Christians(Christ like) for the first time. Jesus never forced his belief nor his gospel on anyone. So anybody that forces, fight or kill people in the name of fighting for Christianity or for the gospel of Christ is never a true christain. Check him well, he must be fighting for self course.
For 3 year ministry of Jesus Christ he had only 12 disciples in the Israel.  he never forced nor fought for anyone to believe or accept his gospel. But guess what he kept on preaching with his only 12 disciples, he new that he only plants but the father waters it. What happend when he left? 12 disciples transformed to millions of his disciples we have today.

Why are you trying to distance yourself from theology just because you think that it will put your prejudices at a disadvantage? This is the wiki defintion of Theology.

The term "theology" literally means the study of God, deriving from the Greek word theos, meaning 'God', and the suffix -ology from the Greek word logos meaning (in this context) "discourse", "theory", or "reasoning". Augustine of Hippo defined the Latin equivalent, theologia, as "reasoning or discussion concerning the Deity"

Are you trying to tell me that you do not discuss God. That you do not reason about God. That you do not study God?

Of course not! You do all of these things but you do them in a shallow and superficial way, informed by prejudice. That is why when you meet with others that have probed deeper into these matters than you have, you try to dismiss it by saying you're not a theologian but a christian, as if theology is something other, or lesser. What do you call all what is in St. Paul's letters if not theology.

Yes, the term 'christian' was first coined in Antioch, but I want to now ask you a question.

[size=15pt]Where did the People of Antioch see Jesus, or know Jesus that they recognised that his followers were like him or that their lives were like his?

[/size]
Please I really need to know your non theological answer to this question.

Pastor AIO:

It bothers me that there are a considerable number of people that believe that a child can be born sinful without any proof of how and why.

I've got a feeling that such damning of babies from the word go is not to far removed from the child abuse that occurs in some parts of nigeria by churches claiming that children are witches.

I think a distinction should also be made between a potential-for-evil and actually-being-evil.

Seems you guys missunderstood bible most of the time as such contradicts yourself in the name of searching for faults in the bible.
Bible never said a child is born with sins from  Adam, but it said men are born by the sinful nature of Adam. Meaning it is in our nature to sin. That is why you can see a child of a month old can get angry, who thought a child of a year plus how to lie? Who taught a child how to do something bad and when the parent asked  he keeps quite or denies it. Who thought a child how to be disobedient, you can see many times that a crawlling child will always do what you ask him not to do. I don't know if you have been closed to kids you will understand this very clear. You will tell a child less than a year not to  touch something or you even take him far away from it, once you turn your back he craws back there again, if you insist with him on not touching it he gets angry and starts crying. Who taught him all that? but becoz it our nature.
Have you asked your little child b4 who knows nothing, to help you pick something on the floor for you and he says No? Who taught them to say No? you or the mother? If you need a substantial proof for this when next your wife gives birth start mornitoring the activities of the child from day 1, you will be amazed at some of his actions that you will ask yourself how,  and where he learnt all  that from.
These are little things we count as sin of disobedient for adults. But for the  children bible doesn't count them as sin, coz they have no knowledge of what they doing as being bad. That is why we have age of accountability, the age at which these things can be counted as a sin to them.

princekevo:

Seems you guys missunderstood bible most of the time as such contradicts yourself in the name of searching for faults in the bible.
Bible never said a child is born with sins from  Adam, but it said men are born by the sinful nature of Adam. Meaning it is in our nature to sin. That is why you can see a child of a month old can get angry, who thought a child of a year plus how to lie? Who taught a child how to do something bad and when the parent asked  he keeps quite or denies it. Who thought a child how to be disobedient, you can see many times that a crawlling child will always do what you ask him not to do. I don't know if you have been closed to kids you will understand this very clear. You will tell a child less than a year not to  touch something or you even take him far away from it, once you turn your back he craws back there again, if you insist with him on not touching it he gets angry and starts crying. Who taught him all that? but becoz it our nature.
Have you asked your little child b4 who knows nothing, to help you pick something on the floor for you and he says No? Who taught them to say No? you or the mother? If you need a substantial proof for this when next your wife gives birth start mornitoring the activities of the child from day 1, you will be amazed at some of his actions that you will ask yourself how,  and where he learnt all  that from.
These are little things we count as sin of disobedient for adults. But for the  children bible doesn't count them as sin, coz they have no knowledge of what they doing as being bad. That is why we have age of accountability, the age at which these things can be counted as a sin to them.

Who is looking for faults in the bible?  Yes, we have a tendency to sin, but that is not what makes babies angry.  Do you really consider anger a sin?  So did Jesus sin when he cleared the temple?
Is the child that refuses to bow down to his parents idols guilty of the sin of disobedience?  Is it sinful to be curious and test boundaries, to do what your parents tell you not to do? 

When Jesus said he wasn't going to Jerusalem when in fact he was going, was that a sin? 

Anyway sha, all the above is long long story. You did not answer my pertinent question that I asked in the previous thread. I'll repeat it for you.


[size=15pt]Where did the People of Antioch see Jesus, or know Jesus that they recognised that his followers were like him or that their lives were like his?
[/size]

Pastor AIO:

Why are you trying to distance yourself from theology just because you think that it will put your prejudices at a disadvantage? This is the wiki defintion of Theology.
The term "theology" literally means the study of God, deriving from the Greek word theos, meaning 'God', and the suffix -ology from the Greek word logos meaning (in this context) "discourse", "theory", or "reasoning". Augustine of Hippo defined the Latin equivalent, theologia, as "reasoning or discussion concerning the Deity"
Are you trying to tell me that you do not discuss God. That you do not reason about God. That you do not study God?

Why do you think i must go to theological school b4 i could know abt God? I agree with with that theology is the Study of God. As a christian do i need to depend on someones knowledge to know abt God or his word?
I have my bible which explained everything i need to know abt God. i spent good 3 yrs searching and studyng abt God and by his grace i have known him to an extent, still knowing him more and more as the day goes by. So no pastor, theologian can decieve me or change the my knowledge abt God. i didnt become a christain by listening to any pastor preach to me, neither by reading the works of Augustus. Rather, i became a christain for the knowledge i have abt God and christ through reading his word (bible).

So i study abt God and i have every reason to study abt him daily , but through his word (holy bible)

Pastor AIO:

Who is looking for faults in the bible? Yes, we have a tendency to sin, but that is not what makes babies angry. Do you really consider anger a sin? So did Jesus sin when he cleared the temple?

anger is not a sin, but it is a sin to be angered without a cause Read (Mathew 5:22) "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire". Jesus did'nt jst get angry and there was a cause why he did, and the bible made it clear abt anger. It says you can be angry but, it become a sin when you let it see the next day.

Pastor AIO:

Is the child that refuses to bow down to his parents idols guilty of the sin of disobedience?

Well we are talking abt new born babies, who are not up to the age of accountability. So they definitely dont know what is wrong or right, how can they possibily know that it is wrong to bow to Idols let alone disobeying their parent to it.

Pastor AIO:

Is it sinful to be curious and test boundaries, to do what your parents tell you not to do?

Kids does'nt know what curiosity means or testing of boundaries. They do all these for pleasure, not knowing whether is right or wrong. If your question is about an adult, i will then refer you to the 10 commandment of god, Obey your parents.
An adult who saw where it was written 'do not urinate here' and went ahead urinating there. He is consciouse that he is doing the wrong thing. As such, if caught can he defend himself by saying , he was jst testing boundaries or being curious? When an action is not right then it must be wrong.
You know that sometimes when kids do these things we adult percept it as being wrong, but they dont know what their doing coz it is in human nature do both the right and wrong things. The same things can be counted as a sin to an adult. Sin of disobidient.

Pastor AIO:

When Jesus said he wasn't going to Jerusalem when in fact he was going, was that a sin?

Anyway sha, all the above is long long story. You did not answer my pertinent question that I asked in the previous thread. I'll repeat it for you.

[size=15pt]Where did the People of Antioch see Jesus, or know Jesus that they recognised that his followers were like him or that their lives were like his?
[/size]

I will start answering your question by giving an example. I can say some is Adolphus Hitler of our time and i can say some is like Idia Amin, i made such conclusion based on the character he/she possessed and exhibit, the way he/she does things, which is fa milliar with that of Adolphus Hitler or Idia Amin. Does my conclusion means that i was there to witness the activities of Adolphus Hitler? No, but becoz of his negative fame in the whole world and he became so much famous to the world not becoz every one met him or witnessed his activities, but becoz of the news people heard abt him.
The same thing with Jesus Christ the bible said in the book of (Mathew 9:26 and 31), due to the good things he was doing, healling the sick and raising the death, His fame spreaded over abroad. The people of Anthioc were not that stupid and dumb that when they saw his disciples preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, healing the sick, and living a life of gentleness and humility, could not recognise them as being Christ like(Christian) or identify them with Christ.

Moreover, don't forget that Anthioc was just 300miles north of Jerusalem, which was the Metropolis of Syria, and afterward became the capital of the Roman province in Asia. Bible recorded that in the account of Mathew that Jesus healed many sick from Syria. (Matthew 4:23-24)
"And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

24And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatic, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.

So man, people of Anthioc wasn't so dumb that they do not know abt Christ, his fame, doings, teachings, and miracles. The account of Acts said when they saw the disciples, they did something, said things, lived things, a type of character they only heard of Jesus Christ. that was why they called them CHRISTIANOI, meaning Christ people!

So it is important for us today if we say we are Christians how we live our life in the society, does it reflect the life of Christ? Does peoples around you see the life of Christ in you? Not jst am a christian by mouth or going to church every sunday. You don't need to announce to people around you that you are a Christian, but by the way you live your life and do things, even the unbelievers will know that you are a true Christian. a disciples of Christ.

@ princekevo, ur illustration is as erroneous as even you can understand. We are not saying it isn't possible, but we are talking about the ideal- is it just?follow this. http://newageofreason./2009/11/21/the-sonhood-and-sacrifice-of-christ/
Major problem,since jesus already wiped those sins, why then are babies damned as sinners from birth? http://newageofreason./2009/12/01/poor-damned-souls/

Reasonably:

@ princekevo, your illustration is as erroneous as even you can understand. We are not saying it isn't possible, but we are talking about the ideal- is it just?follow this. http://newageofreason./2009/11/21/the-sonhood-and-sacrifice-of-christ/
Major problem,since jesus already wiped those sins, why then are babies damned as sinners from birth? http://newageofreason./2009/12/01/poor-damned-souls/

Reasonably's link says:

More unreasonable is damning every soul sinners for what they know nothing about.
Another worrisome issue is why should the infant be a sinner when Jesus already washed out our sins with his blood? If the super detergent already washed it out, why label that baby a sinner still?

This was a big issue with the Anabaptists. They claimed that infant baptism is wrong and it was not practiced in the bible. One must be adult and consciously able to accept christian doctrine before being baptised.

The shocking thing for the people at large was, since they were taught in church that we were born in sin, due to the high rate of infant mortality in those days that meant that most of their children were going to hell. Infant baptism at least saved the dead children from the sin they were born with.
People hated the Anabaptists, they even went as far as to lay siege on them in the city of Munster and eventually slaughter them.

Reasonably:

@ princekevo, your illustration is as erroneous as even you can understand. We are not saying it isn't possible, but we are talking about the ideal- is it just?follow this. http://newageofreason./2009/11/21/the-sonhood-and-sacrifice-of-christ/
Major problem,since jesus already wiped those sins, why then are babies damned as sinners from birth? http://newageofreason./2009/12/01/poor-damned-souls/

Listen, am not talking abt an ideal man, am talking abt a reality which is far from ideal,
I jst read your article on the blog, but you jst ended up confussing yourself with the two examples you gave. they are in no way related to the reality of what Jesus Christ did on the cross.
In the first place, Jesus Christ dying on the cross for our sins wasn't mandatory to him by God. Bible made it clear that he volunteered himself to die for our sins. An angel could have volunteered, but for his love for man he volunteered to come and die for our sin. The question was "Who shall we send and who shall go for us"? You can see  it was an open request to many by God.

Secondly Jesus never complained to you dying for our sin, but for you to make use of his death. Infact he had an opportunity to let the cup pass over him in Gethsemane, but he still maintained that the will of God be done. All to saving you from eternal damnation.
Am sure from the example you gave on your blog, if the the guy was giving a choice in the court, he would never chose to die for the sin of his father. That is what makes it different from Jesus death.
Dying for someone out of free will is totally different from when you are mandated to die for someones sin. there you have no choice, but out of free will , you can change your mind even at the point death.

Reasonably:

Major problem,since jesus already wiped those sins, why then are babies damned as sinners from birth?

That Jesus died the sin of man doesn't mean that sin does not exist on earth anymore. That is where many of get the bible wrong. We jst pick passage in the bible interpret it in our own understanding.
In the old testaments people were making sacrifice with materials, for their sins. Infact God gave them a specific instruction on how and what to use for the scarifies. You can imagine amount the amount they spent every year for sacrifice for their sins.
Jst like you asked, making this sacrifice does not mean there was no sin then. In the new testament we see Jesus coming to make the last sacrifice for us that involved human blood. That does not mean that sin seized to exist. It implies that though you are sinner, you can be made pure by his blood. You don't need to make any sacrifice anymore to be pure or free from sin. All you need to do is go to him in praying and ask for forgive, he is the blood is always the cleanse you from all your sins.

If the Nigerian Government declared free education to all its citizen. Only those who made themselves available by going to school will be educated. You can sit in your house and assume that since it is free education for all automatically you are educated. Until you are aware of the benefits of education and making yourselves available to be educated you cant be educated. That is just a proper illustration of it all . Jesus died for our sins until recognise you are a sinner and ask for cleansing, you can be free from sin.
In otherwords, a new born child or a kid cannot recognise his wrong doings, as such cannot as for forgiveness. So God does not count what ever their wrong doings as a sin as long as they are not up to the age of accountability.
Hope you understand this, and may God give you more insight to his word

@dbr- The true jesus is different from the trinity jesus of ur bible, the true jesus was not crucified


did you read the post with a clear mind ? Jesus was afraid to die and prayed to God to avoid being crucified luke 22:42 , has he forgotten the fake Prophecy ?

princekevo:

Why do you think i must go to theological school b4 i could know abt God? I agree with with that theology is the Study of God. As a christian do i need to depend on someones knowledge to know abt God or his word?
I have my bible which explained everything i need to know abt God. i spent good 3 yrs searching and studyng abt God and by his grace i have known him to an extent, still knowing him more and more as the day goes by. So no pastor, theologian can decieve me or change the my knowledge abt God. i didnt become a christain by listening to any pastor preach to me, neither by reading the works of Augustus. Rather, i became a christain for the knowledge i have abt God and christ through reading his word (bible).

So i study abt God and i have every reason to study abt him daily , but through his word (holy bible)

Nobody said you must go to theological school before you can know about God! Are you trying to put words in people's mouths. If you profess christianity then you ought to be familiar with christian doctrine.

You say that the bible is enough to explain to you everything that you need to know. I can appreciate that. Each to his own, so far you are pursuing your path in sincerity and truth. However most other christians believe in doctrines that are not explicitly stated in the bible. These they have received from the church. Even the bible that they read derives it's authority from the church and so they read it as it is interpreted by the church, ie. orthodoxly.

If your faith is based on your personal understanding and interpretation of the bible then I am in no position to criticise that.

@Poster:

Suppose you contacted HIV and then get married and have children. I'm not a medic but believe the "innocent" baby will also have HIV. When Adam sinned (got HIV), he had not had any children and in effect, the "disease was in his and Eve's loins when they bore children who thus automatically had the Disease by reason of heredity.

You could wonder why HIV or HBP or Diabetes, race or skin color is transferred from generation to generation but its not likely you can change the fact that they are, indeed, hereditary and therefore part of the child itself!

Or maybe you know a white couple who gave birth to a black child. , ,

GOD forgave them after their disobedience,so theres nothing like ORIGINAL SIN,so stop your HIV example

@nuclearboy
HIV is not hereditary. Also, for your information even couples that are HIV positive do have HIV negative children, thanks to retro-viral drugs and good HIV management of infected pregnant women.

You re right mr isorry4u

thats when the forgiveness came in= the prevention method of hiv to unborn child

Pastor AIO:

Nobody said you must go to theological school before you can know about God! Are you trying to put words in people's mouths. If you profess christianity then you ought to be familiar with christian doctrine.

You say that the bible is enough to explain to you everything that you need to know. I can appreciate that. Each to his own, so far you are pursuing your path in sincerity and truth. However most other christians believe in doctrines that are not explicitly stated in the bible. These they have received from the church. Even the bible that they read derives it's authority from the church and so they read it as it is interpreted by the church, ie. orthodoxly.
If your faith is based on your personal understanding and interpretation of the bible then I am in no position to criticise that.

That is exactly where many Christains of today are falling short of.
They believe so much on the doctring of the church more than what the bible said. They dont spend time to study the bible to see if their church doctrins are biblical or not, if what the pastor preaches is biblical or not.

Hmmm

princekevo:

That is exactly where many Christains of today are falling short of.
They believe so much on the doctring of the church more than what the bible said. They dont spend time to study the bible to see if their church doctrins are biblical or not, if what the pastor preaches is biblical or not.

But what is the higher authority, The Church or the Bible. There was a church before there was a bible, it was the church that compiled the bible. But anyway, all these points have been thrashed out over and over again on nairaland so there is no need to go into them again.

Wot is even wrong with my xtian fwends? The bible states that the sin of the parents wil b on the offspring up on 2 d 7th generation & that's y jesus came 2 atone 4 it, now u say d same bible states that The fathers shall not be put ot death for the children,. Which 1. Do u want us 2 blive sef, nawa o. Nw i c y there are atheists, i cant realy blame them (atheist) because most of them read only d bible and it's contradictory... Y nt try d quran and understand it.. I bet u, u'l surely knw God exist for ''we have shown them signs in them and in d universe until it became manifest 2 them that this is d truth(God, the quran, islam e.t.c)''

Wot is even wrong with our xtian fwends? The bible states that the sin of the parents wil b on the offspring up on 2 d 7th generation & that's y jesus came 2 atone 4 it, now u say d same bible states that The fathers shall not be put ot death for the children,. Which 1. Do u want us 2 blive sef, nawa o. Nw i c y there are atheists, i cant realy blame them (atheist) because most of them read only d bible and it's contradictory... Y nt try d quran and understand it.. I bet u, u'l surely knw God exist for ''we have shown them signs in them and in d universe until it became manifest 2 them that this is d truth(God, the quran, islam e.t.c)''

dani1luv: sumborri please answer me

Here is your answer

The undetailed story of adam in the Bible potrayed this image of God as the betrayer of his maker and a weakling.and his God also as an imperfect creator, blaspheming the All seeing Eye and Omniscient God
This has made Adam suffer multi generational deformity and has also produce athesist which believd that the source of all toils, hardship,sickness and death is from the genesis tragedy,
An invincible God that decided to create something which he proclaimed is His image and likeness can be judged in that which he created,if we say Adam is a weakling are we not indeirectly say that his maker is also a weakling? If not,then we need to look into the matter more carefully.
Let us look into the story of this awesome never born titanic creature, what he did , not as deceived but to prove the deceiver (lucifer) to be the deceived.
Gen 1 vs26-27 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Looking closely at the account of creation , you will observe that God was not exactly calling things that be not as though they were, rather He spoke and called forth the entire creation from already existent materials,asking them to bring forth according to thier kind,God continued in this manner until he got to the creation of man, So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.gen 1vs 27.
The above verse was the creation of Adam,how come the bilble said in gen 2:5 that ' there was no man to till the ground' after which the Lord God formed man of the dust of the earth,the account of chapter 1 used the word 'creation' which is making something out of none existing material , while chapter 2 used 'form' which is making from an already existing material,
God is a spirit being therefore when he proposed to make man in His image ,after his likeness, He created the spirit and the soul of the man gen 1:27. It was in this state that God embedded the spirit of prophecy in Adam, (rev 19:10c for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.), this spirit of prophecy formed the basic form of knowledge that Adam had,which was exhibited when he had to name all the animals , including the first woman eve gen 2:19 ....and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
The angels did not know about the creation of the mans spirit and soul but they witnessed the forming of mans body.This was why in comparing themselves to man they could not comprehend the attention God is giving to man, they wondered what is about man that God is so mindful of him (psalm 8:4).
Adam having the spirit of prophecy knew that except a seed falls into the ground and die it abides alone (john 12:24).And for procreation to take place ,he being the first man must die ( leave his original exalted state in Eden to become a mortal msn in the earth.gen 1:28
There is no procreation in Eden, as it is a heavenly place , which is in its complete system of generation.hence for procreation to happen Adam must descend to the earth ( which was actually where he was given as his jurisdiction) which is not yet a perfect world. The only passport to the earth is the fruit of the tree of motality(the tree of the knowledge of good and evil)
In taking a rib from Adam to make eve, God made for man what he can die for, and that was why adam, even when he knew the consequences of eating of that tree and what lies ahead of eve after she has done so, decided to take full responsibility and die for the love he has for her, just like our Lord Jesus Christ chose to be made sin and died for the love he has for us to redeem us (including Adam)from that orginal sin.and if Adam could not died for eve Jesus could not have died for the church .
This is the foundation of the church , this is the summary of the plan of salvation.a God that knows the end from the beginning is a master architect and a perfect planner,
in conclusion Adam was not deceived 1st 2:14 ,he was a seed sown for mankind so that you and I will come, if you understand this,then you will understand that Adam did which he has to do,also rising up to his responsibility as 'the man' who is the head of the woman(1st corth 11:3) and the father of the entire mankindhe is a strong man and he is also a prophet, he is the second Lord refered to in psalms 110:1,and Jesus the Lord of lords.

Ark of jesus ministries