Asalaam Alaykum.

I have been doing research on the first creation of humanity in Quran, Hadiths and scholars tafseer(exegesis).

We all know how Adam(AS) was created but as for Eve(AS) Quran also mentioned how she(Eve) was created but scholars have brought up different opinions on how exactly she was created, using the hadiths which says she was created from Adam's rib which the Quran didn't mention, some even said she was created from extra/remaining clay used for Adam.

It was making sense in the Quran until scholars started giving different opinions on how exactly Eve was created.

tintingz:
Asalaam Alaykum.

I have been doing research on the first creation of humans in Quran, Hadiths and scholars tafseer.

We all know how Adam(AS) was created but as for Eve(AS) Quran also mentioned how she(Eve) was created but scholars have brought up different opinions on how exactly she was created using the hadiths which says she was created from Adam's rib which the Quran didn't mention, some even said she was created from extra/remaining clay used for Adam.

It was making sense in the Quran until scholars started giving different opinions on how exactly Eve was created.

Walaikum Salaam.

Well, Qur'an does says this:



[size=15pt]“And God said: ‘O Mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person (Adam) and from Him (Adam) He created his wife (Eve), and from them both He created many men and women.’”[/size] (Quran 4:1)


Underlined suggests a lot. It give rooms for theory and opinions. Hence, Tafsir ibn Kathir gave his opinion of Hawwa been created from ribs which is popular opinion


The hadith only give broad view of what @underlined means. The traditions of Prophet Muhammad(SAW) relate that Eve was created while Adam was sleeping from his shortest left rib and that, after sometime, she was clothed with flesh. He (Prophet Muhammad) used the story of Eve’s creation from Adam’s rib as a basis for imploring people to be gentle and kind to women. [size=13pt]“O Muslims! I advise you to be gentle with women, for they are created from a rib, and the most crooked portion of the rib is its upper part. If you try to straighten it, it will break, and if you leave it, it will remain crooked; so I urge you to take care of the women.”[/size] (Saheeh Al-Bukhari)


But there may be other tafasir of different opinions within Sunni exegesis. I believe Shi'i exegesis don't believe in ribs story.

Empiree:
Well, Qur'an does says this:



[size=15pt]“And God said: ‘O Mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person (Adam) and from Him (Adam) He created his wife (Eve), and from them both He created many men and women.’”[/size] (Quran 4:1)


Underlined suggests a lot. It give rooms for theory and opinions. Hence, Tafsir ibn Kathir gave his opinion of Hawwa been created from ribs which is popular opinion


The hadith only give broad view f what @underlined means. The traditions of Prophet Muhammad(SAW) relate that Eve was created while Adam was sleeping from his shortest left rib and that, after sometime, she was clothed with flesh. He (Prophet Muhammad) used the story of Eve’s creation from Adam’s rib as a basis for imploring people to be gentle and kind to women. [size=13pt]“O Muslims! I advise you to be gentle with women, for they are created from a rib, and the most crooked portion of the rib is its upper part. If you try to straighten it, it will break, and if you leave it, it will remain crooked; so I urge you to take care of the women.”[/size] (Saheeh Al-Bukhari)


But there may be other tafasir of different opinions within Sunni exegesis. I believe Shi'i exegesis don't believe in ribs story.

Thank you for saying scholars have their opinions and you didn't criticize them.

The Quran verse you quoted mentioned nafs(soul) and not rib while the hadith mentioned rib(I read the Jews corrupted some hadiths) but since the hadith you quoted came from Sahih Bukhari I'm confused as some opinion said it was a metaphor.

As a Muslim should we follow the popular rib story or which one?

tintingz:
Thank you for saying scholars have their opinions and you didn't criticize them.

The Quran verse you quoted mentioned nafs(soul) and not rib while the hadith mentioned rib(I read the Jews corrupted some hadiths) but since the hadith you quoted came from Sahih Bukhari I'm confused as some opinion said it was a metaphor.

As a Muslim should we follow the popular rib story or which one?

JazakaAllahu Khayra.

The thing is, the concept of SOUL is broad. Very BROAD. Soul means lots of things but little Allah revealed to mankind. So technically indeed, ribs are from the body and material body is from soul. Hence it is still within Adam's soul. Remember a verse in the Quran which instructs the prophet about the soul?. The verse says little is revealed in the kitab (Qur'an).

I understand that Jews infiltrated hadith. No doubt about that. I was going to post something to that effect today. I just remembered something last night before i went to bed. Anyways, ribs mentioned in the hadith or tafsir is not in conflict with nafs still. It is still within the scope. It is like when Allah says in different verses that he created mankind from nutfat(sperm) but did he create Adam from sperm?. No. Yet you and I came from sperm. And if you trace origin of sperm to the last, it goes back to clay or dust. He (SWT) also said He created mankind from clay, from dust etc. Its all means the same thing.

Now, to prove that ribs story is Jewish interpolation, you may need to bring up Biblical or Torah's theory of how Hawwa(as) was created to see if there is any comparison. I dont recall what their text says about that.

Empiree:
JazakaAllahu Khayra.

The thing is, the concept of SOUL is broad. Very BROAD. Soul means lots of things but little Allah revealed to mankind. So technically indeed, ribs are from the body and material body is from soul. Hence it is still within Adam's soul. Remember a verse in the Quran which instructs the prophet about the soul?. The verse says little is revealed in the kitab (Qur'an).

I understand that Jews infiltrated hadith. No doubt about that. I was going to post something to that effect today. I just remembered something last night before i went to bed. Anyways, ribs mentioned in the hadith or tafsir is not in conflict with nafs still. It is still within the scope. It is like when Allah says in different verses that he created mankind from nutfat(sperm) but did he create Adam from sperm?. No. Yet you and I came from sperm. And if you trace origin of sperm to the last, it goes back to clay or dust. He (SWT) also said He created mankind from clay, from dust etc. Its all means the same thing.

Now, to prove that ribs story is Jewish interpolation, you may need to bring up Biblical or Torah's theory of how Hawwa(as) was created to see if there is any comparison. I dont recall what their text says about that.

Genesis 2:22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out... "

Rilwayne001:


Genesis 2:22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out... "

I knew Mr Rilwayne is expert in this Bible exegesis. You wasted no time to bring it up really quick

All i can say at this point is, Wallahu Ta'la Alam

Empiree:
I knew Mr Rilwayne is expert in this Bible exegesis. You wasted no time to bring it up really quick

All i can say at this point is, Wallahu Ta'la Alam

I am no expert o.. Lol

^

But do remember the 3 religions or the so called "Abrahamic faiths" do have similarities one way or the other since they all claimed the same origin. Just like the case of Jesus(as). His similarities in both scriptures are undisputable.

Empiree:
^

But do remember the 3 religions or the so called "Abrahamic faiths" do have similarities one way or the other since they all claimed the same origin. Just like the case of Jesus(as). His similarities in both scriptures are undisputable.

Yes indeed. There are lots of similarities in the 3, but we can't rely on the Bible. In my opinion, the Bible is corrupted entirely starting from the OT. NT is even worse.

Rilwayne001:


Yes indeed. There are lots of similarities in the 3, but we can't rely on the Bible. In my opinion, the Bible is corrupted entirely starting from the OT. NT is even worse.

Yup.....there is no relying on it

Rilwayne001:


Yes indeed. There are lots of similarities in the 3, but we can't rely on the Bible. In my opinion, the Bible is corrupted entirely starting from the OT. NT is even worse.

Hahaha. No let ifea.n and Co hear you oooo.

udatso:

Hahaha. No let ifea.n and Co hear you oooo.

I can bet that parisbookaddict aka ifeann, truthmans2012 and Annunaki2 know nothing about their Bible.

Chai. You just declared war. They are coming for you

udatso:
Chai. You just declared war. They are coming for you

I'm ready for them

I am looking for a thread opened by a fellow like 2 months ago about making niyah before offering Salat/Ghusl. At the time, i didnt remember until last night to proof the brother is not wrong. Some brothers criticized his thread that uttering niyat is bid'a. But in fact, it is really not. It is rather understanding of Scholars who wrote the Tira back then. Yet, it was in Sahih Bukhari.

What I am trying to say is, making niyah before prayer or ghusl (ritual birth), it used to be in Sahih Bukhari when i was in college. But now it has been ceremonially expunged from Sahih Bukhari and Muslim. That's why modern muslims dont see it there is the reason they termed it bid'a.

I am going to derail a little so pardon me op. When I was in college in Ilorin in 1999, we treated subject of ghusl. Alhaja, who was our islamic lecturer asked everyone of us to describe how we perform ghusl after intercourse or wet dream. The class was "Adult Content" and everyone was shy. So, years before then when i was in high school, i have been reading a booklet (tira) of dua of all types of ritual births. Most of them in Sahih Muslim and Bukhari. And I have been practicing the rituals long before i came to college in ilorin.

Long story short, all the niyat start with "Nawaitul bla bla bla" Same with Tayamam. Nawaitu tayamam bla bla bla... Thats how i used to do it. So in class in year 2000, everyone would describe how to take birth and provide references from Islamic sources. However, I have understood that ghusl as explained in the ahadith that we should wash hand first, wash private area, divide your head into three parts (meaning, wash one part of the head first then the other). I understood back then that the prophet(saw) was simply saying to wash entire body and water MUST reach everywhere. It doesnt mean you have to divide into three. So many of my colleagues explained to Alhaja Sherifat how the hadith stated it (literally) but I understood it differently. When it came to my turn, I simply told her my niyah and provided reference from Sahih Bukhari and wash my body as I normally do and i just make sure water reaches every part of my body.

When i finished my explanation in less than 2 minutes, they all laughed at me except Alhaja. Reason they laughed was bcus they took minimum of 15 minutes to explain the procedure and we students were more than 50. Class session was only an hour. We had to borrow more time from the next lecturer. So Alhaja was like, why are you laughing - he is correct. She said only two thing is most important: Niyat and water must reach all parts of your body. But then, she warned that after you take birth, you must not touch your private area. Otherwise, you have to make wudhu before you pray. But without touching private area after ghusl Janaba, salat is valid. There is no need to make wudhu.

Bottomline is, at that time, Alhaja herself did not understand that niyah does not have to be said out (utterly). Niyat is in the mind. It is automatically preconceived. So we all had references from Sahih books. But today, those references are expunged from hadith. Isnt that evidence of tampering with hadith?. Search internet you will hardly find such narrations now. Thats why modern muslims think it is bid'a if someone utters niya before ghusl or salat. It is not bida's bcus there used to be references for it. I would probably have said it is bid'a too if i didnt have the hadith back then. Even now, i seldom utter the word but fact is, it was the understanding of those who wrote the "hadith" that niya should be uttered. But now, knowledge has evolved. We now understood niya does not need to be uttered. Reason is very simple. If you just had intercourse with your wife, you got up to go to the bathroom to take shower, intention is already formed that you are taking shower to CLEANSE yourself. See how simple that is?. But i insist that it is not bida to utter the word bcus there was evidence. But the evidences are no longer there in 21 century.

Also, washing private area first or dividing head into three parts is literal meaning. At the time they wrote the hadith there was no wall shower. They used to use bucket and plate. So it made perfect sense to divide body part bcus if you poured water on you, most likely it would not reach entire body. But today, it is silly(excuse me) to stand under shower and divide your body parts while water is pouring on you already. Whether you divide your body or allow shower to throw water on you, it is still Sunnah as long as water reaches every cranny. This is evidence of tampering with Sahih hadith. I forgot to mention this long ago. "Science of hadith" did not prevent this tampering at all.

I felt bad for the brother after some brothers commented on his thread that it is bid'a to utter niya. But he posted those niyat based on his understanding. So not only this one but many practices that are acceptable in Islam are now expunged from sahih Bukhari and Muslim. Bcus these modern muslims dont see it there is the reason they accuse everything of bid'a today. It is not their fault though. I believe that this discrepancy occurred at the start of 21 century (2000) but of course it was happening before then slowly. Back then, i didnt hear much crazy stuff in the hadith about the prophet(SAW). They most likely just inserted some of those mad things there in 21 century computer age. So Science of Hadith did not capture those discrepancies. They edited those ahadith during advancement of technology. But the ribs story has always been there though.

@Empiree

assalam alaykum,

References to expunged Hadith will be appreciated. A screenshot of old vs new Hadith showing missing hadith's will also be appreciated.

ypeace:
@Empiree

assalam alaykum,

References to expunged Hadith will be appreciated. A screenshot of old vs new Hadith showing missing hadith's will also be appreciated.

Walaikum Salaam

Lol...you talking about some 19 yrs ago when i dont even know where the tira is anymore. This is no issue for me though. And you don't have to believe what i just posted up there really.

^
I wish NL facilitated uploading video stored on PC. I could upload a video where Alfa said the same thing recently. The video is on my PC but it looks like it is deleted on YouTube. He said what i just said. I also wished i still have the booklet with me. That was the time computer was just making its way in nigeria. And I have not been around there in 15yrs now. So I cant possibly scan the tira. Plus Scanners was just invented at that time.

The video am talking about is titled "Fola Anobi Toro" by Imam Offa. I was looking for it last night on Youtube but it is not there anymore. He said the same thing. But I downloaded the video in Ramadan and i have the video right now on my PC and USB but can't upload it here.

Empiree:
JazakaAllahu Khayra.

The thing is, the concept of SOUL is broad. Very BROAD. Soul means lots of things but little Allah revealed to mankind. So technically indeed, ribs are from the body and material body is from soul. Hence it is still within Adam's soul. Remember a verse in the Quran which instructs the prophet about the soul?. The verse says little is revealed in the kitab (Qur'an).

@bolded, What i understand from the Quran is that the body and soul are two different thing.

God created the body with clay and breath his spirit to the body which becomes the soul.

I understand that Jews infiltrated hadith. No doubt about that. I was going to post something to that effect today. I just remembered something last night before i went to bed. Anyways, ribs mentioned in the hadith or tafsir is not in conflict with nafs still. It is still within the scope. It is like when Allah says in different verses that he created mankind from nutfat(sperm) but did he create Adam from sperm?. No. Yet you and I came from sperm. And if you trace origin of sperm to the last, it goes back to clay or dust. He (SWT) also said He created mankind from clay, from dust etc. Its all means the same thing.

The thing here is the Quran didn't mention rib instead nafs(soul), "created you from a single soul/being and created its mate of the same (kind)" the statement here can be said Eve was created from same specie which is Adam and not specifically from his rib.

Now, to prove that ribs story is Jewish interpolation, you may need to bring up Biblical or Torah's theory of how Hawwa(as) was created to see if there is any comparison. I dont recall what their text says about that.

Here is the bible verse:

And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof. And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. " ( Genesis 2:21-22)

tintingz:

@bolded, What i understand from the Quran is that the body and soul are two different thing.

Maybe I didnt word it properly. But Nafs is very difficult to explain. Right now that we still breath is bcus soul is there. Noone can tell where soul is in our body. Our flesh (body) is material body. Is like it is extract from soul when we die.


For instance, there is a hadith that I am just going to paraphrase it. It was about a Sahaba who just had intercourse with his wife. He took ghusl afterward. The prophet(saw) summoned him to join ji.had ....I think battle of Badr. But his wife was still sexually active and she detained her husband from leaving the house. Hence, they had intercourse again. But the man was so worried to join the battle. When he got up he had no time to take ghusl. He went like that straight to the battle and was shahid. Just when he was killed, his body is on the ground but the prophet(saw) looked up in the sky and said SubhanaAllah!. Others enquired what prophets saw in the sky?. He said he (saw) saw Angel washing the Sahaba who was just shahid. So from what i know is the body on the ground is material and it is going back where it came from to begin with(dust). But the body seen being washed by the Angel will be resurrected. Need more lesson on this though.

The thing here is the Quran didn't mention rib instead nafs(soul), "created you from a single soul/being and created its mate of the same (kind)" the statement here can be said Eve was created from same specie which is Adam and not specifically from his rib.

Well, far as i am concen whether it says ribs or not, dosnt really make diff to me. I dont think it is appropriate for Quran to say 'We created Eve from his rib". I believe Quran uses general term SOUL to describe she was created from him. But then, there are other opinions. If I say she was created from Adam, she was created from Adam's soul, she was created from Adam's body etc its all mean the same thing to me. Just like when we die, from appearance, we die the same death. But in Islamic epistemology, haqiqa, we do not die same death. But in reality death is death. Meaning Eve was created from Adam. Thats just what matters the most. I do not have further knowledge of this other than to submit to text bcus there is nothing to suggest the hadith needs tawil. This doesnt mean I succumb to Judeo/christian version.

Another example is, if someone asks you where/how your child is created?. How are you going to answer that?. Dont worry about sperm.

Here is the bible verse:

And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof. And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. " ( Genesis 2:21-22)

Indeed, there is striking resemblance. Wallahu Ta'la alam

^^Jazakallah khairan Empiree... I understand you.

Anyways I really don't follow the rib story.

tintingz:
Asalaam Alaykum.

I have been doing research on the first creation of humans in Quran, Hadiths and scholars tafseer.

We all know how Adam(AS) was created but as for Eve(AS) Quran also mentioned how she(Eve) was created but scholars have brought up different opinions on how exactly she was created using the hadiths which says she was created from Adam's rib which the Quran didn't mention, some even said she was created from extra/remaining clay used for Adam.

It was making sense in the Quran until scholars started giving different opinions on how exactly Eve was created.

# May Allah bless you more for this thread.

# @underline, I really can't blame the scholars for having different views. Some rely on the literal meaning of some ahadith while others take clear linguistic meaning of the Quran. I absolutely do not take the literal meaning of hadith which says women were created from a crack rib. Rather I took it metaphorical. Therefore I do not subscribe to the idea of Hawa being created from the rib of Adam though Allah is powerful to do that but there is absolutely no evidence of this in the Quran (and hadith if not taken literally).

# Let us go through several Tafasir of this noble ayah. Kindly observe how different views also affected even various translations.

# Allamah Hussein Tabatabai

4. Surah An-Nisa, Verse 1

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

4:1 O people! fear your Lord, Who created you from a single being and created its mate of the same (kind) and spread from these two, many men and women; and fear Allah, by Whom you demand one of another (your rights), and (be mindful of) relationship; surely Allah is vigilant over you."

* Commentary

"....The words, "Who created you from a single being and created its mate of the same (kind)": "an-Nafs (translated here as "being" according to the dictionary and language denotes the thing itself. They say: "He came to me (nafsuhu - himself); or "He came to me ('aynuhu; - the self same); although the basis for use of these two words, "an-nafs" and "al-'ayn" in this meaning (self; same; quiddity of a thing) is etymologically different. an-Nafs of a man is that because of which man is man; and it is the combination of soul and body in this life and only the soul in the life of al-Barzakh, as we have explained in the Commentary of the verse: And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead; nay, (they are) alive, but you do not perceive (2:154).

The context obviously shows that the words, "a single being", refer to Adam (a.s.) and "its mate" to Adam's wife. These two were the progenitors of this species to which we all belong; and all the human beings return to the same root, to those two parents, as Allah says in other verses too: He has created you from a single being, then made its mate of the same (kind) (39:6); O children of Adam! let not the Satan cause you to fall into affliction as he expelled your parents from the Garden 17:27); and the Satan is quoted as saying: If Thou shouldst respite me to the Day of Resurrection, I will most certainly cause his progeny to perish except a few (17:62). ....

...The phrase, "and created its mate of the same (kind)": ar-Raghib has said: "Each member of a pair of opposite sexes in living creatures is called az-zawj (pair, couple, mate); so is a pair in animate and inanimate things, e.g., a pair of socks or shoes; also it is used for anything taken together with another, whether they are similar or opposite to each other use of az-zawjah (wife) (to denote female or the above-mentioned pairs) is bad language."

The clause, "and created its mate of the same", apparently is meant to show that its mate was of the same species - similar in humanity to the (original) "single soul"; and that all these human beings are the offspring of the original couple - the two similar human beings. The preposition min (from, of) therefore signifies origin. The verse has the same import as the others given below:

And Allah has made wives for you from among yourselves, and has given you sons and grandchildren from your wives... (16:72);

And one of His signs is that He created mates for you from yourselves that you may find rest in them, and He put between you love and compassion (30:21);

The Originator of the heavens and the earth; He made mates for you from among yourselves, and mates of the cattle too, multiplying you thereby (42 :11);

Of similar connotation is the verse: And of every thing We have created pairs that you may be mindful (51:49).

In spite of this clear meaning, some exegetes have written that the verse tends to show that the mate was derived from that single being and created from one of its parts. These explanation aims at making the verse conform with some traditions, which say that Allah had created Adam's wife from one of his ribs. But the fact remains that the verse does not support this view.
http://www.almizan.org/tafsir/112-1-4/


# Abdullah Yusuf Ali's English translation and commentary (vis-a-vis Tafsir Kabir of Imam Razi):

"O mankind! reverence Your Guardian Lord, Who created you from a single Person, created, of like nature, his mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women..."

* Commentary

504. Nafs may means: (1) soul; (2) self; (3) person, living person; (4) will, good pleasure, as in iv. 4 below. Minha: I follow the construction suggested by Imam Razi. The particle min would then suggest here not a portion or a source of something else, but a species, a nature, a similarity. The pronoun ha refers of course to Nafs. The Biblical story of the creation of Eve from a rib of Adam may be allegorical, but we need not assume it in Quranic teaching.


# Tafsir Ibn Kathir (and Tafsir Jalalayn)

(1. O mankind! Have Taqwa of your Lord, Who created you from a single person, and from him He created his mate, and from them both He created many men and women, and have Taqwa of Allah through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and revere the wombs. Surely, Allah is always watching over you.)"

* Commentary

"Allah commands His creatures to have Taqwa of Him by worshipping Him Alone without partners. He also reminds to them of His ability, in that He created them all from a single person, Adam, peace be unto him.

وَخَلَقَ مِنْهَا زَوْجَهَا

(And from him He created his wife) Hawwa' (Eve), who was created from Adam's left rib, from his back while he was sleeping. When Adam woke up and saw Hawwa', he liked her and had affection for her, and she felt the same toward him. An authentic Hadith states,

(Woman was created from a rib. Verily, the most curved portion of the rib is its upper part, so, if you should try to straighten it, you will break it, but if you leave it as it is, it will remain crooked.) Allah's statement,

(And from them both He created many men and women means, Allah created from Adam and Hawwa' many men and women and distributed them throughout the world in various shapes, characteristics, colors and languages. In the end, their gathering and return will be to Allah. Allah then said..."
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=721&Itemid=59


# Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs

And on his authority from Ibn 'Abbas on Allah's saying: (O mankind!) [he said:] 'This is an expression of general applicability, but it could also be of particular applicability. (Be careful of your duty to your Lord) obey your Lord (Who created you) by means of copulation (from a single soul) from the soul of Adam alone, for the soul of Eve was included in his (and from it) from the soul of Adam (created its mate) Eve (and from them twain has spread abroad) He created through the copulation of Adam and Eve (a multitude of men and women) scores of human beings: male and female. (Be careful of your duty towards Allah) obey Allah (in Whom ye claim (your rights) of one another) your stuff and rights by Allah's right, (and towards the wombs (that bare you)) and also by the right of kinship and filiation; or it could also mean: keep the ties of kinship and do not sever them. (Lo! Allah hath been a Watcher over you) He has been a Protector: He shall ask you about that which He has commanded you of acts of obedience and keeping ties of kinship.

http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=4&tAyahNo=1&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

^

Apart from Tafsir Ibn Kathir, others' views you quoted are not specific. They simply suggested Hawwa(as) was created from Adam. In my opinion, I believe SOUL is general term. For instance, I can say my child is created from my soul (which is very correct). But in reality, my child is created through copulation. Hawwa was not created into being like us. She had the honor of being "extracted" from him(Adam) - AS. Whatever it was, she came from Adam somehow best known to HIM (Azal wajal)

Empiree:
^

Apart from Tafsir Ibn Kathir, others' views you quoted are not specific. They simply suggested Hawwa(as) was created from Adam. In my opinion, I believe SOUL is general term. For instance, I can say my child is created from my soul (which is very correct). But in reality, my child is created through copulation. Hawwa was not created into being like us. She had the honor of being "extracted" from him(Adam) - AS. Whatever it was, she came from Adam somehow best known to HIM (Azal wajal)

# Obviously you did not read properly. You just scan through. Tafsir al-Mizan and Abdullah Yusuf Ali clearly reject the idea of Hawa being created from Adam. But none of them is interested on how Hawa was created in particular which Ibn Kathir concluded. And you seem not to have made up your mind brother @bold .

# My concern is that Quran did not suggest such Biblical belief. Those who subscribe to Tafsir ibn Kathir simply try their best in bending Quran to the literal suggestion of the hadith in question. And that has always been the problem of Tafsir. Many do not study Quran in its unique interpretation of itself rather they study it through a secondary means (usually ahadith).

AlBaqir:


# Obviously you did not read properly. You just scan through. Tafsir al-Mizan and Abdullah Yusuf Ali clearly reject the idea of Hawa being created from Adam. But none of them is interested on how Hawa was created in particular which Ibn Kathir concluded. And you seem not to have made up your mind brother @bold .

# My concern is that Quran did not suggest such Biblical belief. Those who subscribe to Tafsir ibn Kathir simply try their best in bending Quran to the literal suggestion of the hadith in question. And that has always been the problem of Tafsir. Many do not study Quran in its unique interpretation of itself rather they study it through a secondary means (usually ahadith).

Thank you for the bolded.

AlBaqir:
# Allamah Hussein Tabatabai

4. Surah An-Nisa, Verse 1

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

4:1 O people! fear your Lord, Who created you from a single being and created its mate of the same (kind) and spread from these two, many men and women; and fear Allah, by Whom you demand one of another (your rights), and (be mindful of) relationship; surely Allah is always watching over you. "




# Abdullah Yusuf Ali's English translation

"O mankind! reverence Your Guardian Lord, Who created you from a single Person, created, of like nature, his mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women."




# Tafsir Ibn Kathir (and Tafsir Jalalayn)

(1. O mankind! Have Taqwa of your Lord, Who created you from a single person, and from him He created his mate, and from them both He created many men and women, and have Taqwa of Allah through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and revere the wombs. Surely, Allah is always watching over you.).

There is seems to be slight different translations in the three. But the first and second aligned. The third however which is what I quoted in my first post suggests or more specific. This thirds interpretation of the ayah makes the hadith and Tafsir Ibn kathir in harmony with Quran.

Let's put aside the Tafsir for a minute. The first two translations only claimed Hawwa was created like Adam (as). Is there a record showing the creation of Hawwa like Adam was created? i:e her statue and Allah breathed into it?.

I have never came across that. I do not see any historical fact(s) that Hawwa created separately from clay or dust. The tafsir provided by first and second translations suggest she was created from Adam's soul which is what I have been trying to convey. Just that, the second translation and Tafsir (Ibn kathir) was specific and detailed.

If Hawwa was created from Adam's soul, rib story is very close since there is no record of Hawwa creation separately from dust.

What do you think?

Empiree:
There is seems to be light different translations in the three. But the first and second aligned. The third however which is what I quoted in my first post suggests or more specific. This thirds interpretation of the ayah makes the hadith and Tafsir Ibn kathir in harmony with Quran.

# @underline, No. It rather forced the Quran to agree with it.

# Alhamdulillah you were able to spot the differences even in the translation. Translators are often influenced by their respective beliefs.

# I tell you, the translation (of Muhsin Khan or sahih Int'l) which is used for the English Tafsir of Ibn Kathir in this particular ayah is absolutely not correct (that very part in question). It is too deliberate to align with the hadith.

# I believe translators should not be influenced by whatever his belief is. Mahmud Picktall and Abdullah Yusuf Ali remain my best translations.

Empiree:

Let's put aside the Tafsir for a minute. The first two translations only claimed Hawwa was created like Adam (as). Is there a record showing the creation of Hawwa like Adam was created? i:e her statue and Allah breathed into it?.

# As far as Quran is concern, there is no specific narration about the creation of Hawwa. It only highlights the same form of creation from the word az-Zawj - pair of same specie. Unfortunately that word az-Zawj - pair of same specie is almost understood to be "female".

Empiree:


I have never came across that. I do not see any historical fact(s) that Hawwa created separately from clay or dust. The tafsir provided by first and second translations suggest she was created from Adam's soul which is what I have been trying to convey. Just that, the second translation and Tafsir (Ibn kathir) was specific and detailed.

If Hawwa was created from Adam's soul, rib story is very close since there is no record of Hawwa creation separately from dust.

What do you think?

# # In the same Tafsir al-Mizan, here is a report:

"ash-Sahybani narrates from 'Amr ibn Abi 'l-Miqdam, from his father that he said: "I asked Abu Ja'far (a.s.): 'From what did Allah create Hawwa'?' He (a.s.) said: 'What do these people say?' I said: 'They say that Allah created her from one of the ribs of Adam.' He said: 'They have said a lie. Was Allah incapable of creating her from (something) other than his ribs?' I said: 'May I be made your ransom, from what did He create her?' He said: 'My father informed me through (the chain of) his fathers that the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.) said: "Verily, Allah, Blessed and High is He, took a handful of dust and mixed it with His right hand - and both His hands are right - and created Adam from it; and there remained (some) residue from the dust, so He created Hawwa' from it."'" (Nahjul-bayan)

The author says: A similar tradition has been narrated by as.-Saduq from 'Amr. There are some other traditions to the effect that she was created from the shortest left rib of Adam. The same thing is said in Chapter 2, of the Genesis. Although this story is not impossible in itself, but as we have explained earlier, it is not proved by the Qur'anic verses."
http://www.almizan.org/tafsir/112-1-4/

Empiree:
JazakaAllahu Khayra.

Anyways, ribs mentioned in the hadith or tafsir is not in conflict with nafs still. It is still within the scope. It is like when Allah says in different verses that he created mankind from nutfat(sperm) but did he create Adam from sperm?. No. Yet you and I came from sperm. And if you trace origin of sperm to the last, it goes back to clay or dust. He (SWT) also said He created mankind from clay, from dust etc. Its all means the same thing.

..

# Quran says: "...and He began the creation of man from dust. Then He made his progeny of an extract, of water held in light estimation" [32: 7- 8]

AlBaqir:






# # In the same Tafsir al-Mizan, here is a report:

"[i]ash-Sahybani narrates from 'Amr ibn Abi 'l-Miqdam, from his father that he said: "I asked Abu Ja'far (a.s.): 'From what did Allah create Hawwa'?' He (a.s.) said: 'What do these people say?' I said: '[size=13pt]They say that Allah created her from one of the ribs of Adam.'[/size] He said: 'They have said a lie. Was Allah incapable of creating her from (something) other than his ribs?' I said: 'May I be made your ransom, from what did He create her?' He said: 'My father informed me through (the chain of) his fathers that the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.) said: "Verily, Allah, Blessed and High is He, took a handful of dust and mixed it with His right hand - and both His hands are right - and created Adam from it; [size=13pt]and there remained (some) residue from the dust, so He created Hawwa' from it[/size][size=8pt][/size]."'" (Nahjul-bayan)

See highlighted part is so close. Both referred back to creation of Hawwa from Adam. But the former is specific than the later.

Empiree:
See highlighted part is so close. Both referred back to creation of Hawwa from Adam. But the former is specific than the later.

Really its two opposite view. When the hadith says, "what do these people says", it refer to those of opposite view from the Imams of Ahl al-bayt.

@tintingz

I am quite interested to know what you would gain by knowing how Eve was created…

Well, I see no reason this should be an issue, Allah (SWT) states that Eve was from Adam (AS), which is the most important point to understand, whether it is from his soul, body or rib has no impact on the original belief.

Why are you confused?! You do not like that Eve was created from Adam’s rib?! Would believing this affect your faith?! How?! Is it impossible for Allah (SWT) to create Eve from Adam’s rib?!

Scholars do what they do best; explain in details the noble verses with evidences. You said you read somewhere that “hadiths were corrupted by the Jews”, I do not take such statements seriously, perhaps the narration in question has been corrupted, but that would be a huge task to prove, where, when and how?! (i.e the narration quoted by Ibn Kathir which is authentic by the way).

Know that you cannot fault the mufaasir for his opinion presented, especially if backed by authentic evidences, the narration quoted by Ibn Kathir is quite clear and simple to understand, I do not see any reason to claim literal meaning and metaphorical meaning. Anyway, Allah (SWT) in His divine wisdom has stated in His Book, what we all can understand to mean: Eve was created from Adam (AS), this is simple and straight forward, it doesn’t contradict the narration in question, and the narration does not conflict with the Qur’an (whether taken literally or not).

Below is the appropriate translation of the narration:

Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “I enjoin you to treat women well, for the woman was created from a rib and the most curved part of the rib is its uppermost part. If you try to straighten it you will break it, but if you leave it as it is it will remain curved. So be good to women.”

Source: Sahih Bukhari 3153, Sahih Muslim 1468

You may click HERE to read the narration in Arabic.

And Allah Knows best!