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Tatbir (flagellation) - A Disturbing Innovation - Islam for Muslims (2) - Nairaland

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Re: Tatbir (flagellation) - A Disturbing Innovation by AlBaqir(m): 9:25pm On Oct 16, 2016
10 October, 2016
Hizbullah secretary general, Sayyid Hassan Nasrallah blasts shameful Ashura rituals (including tatbir) by some Shia, questions insistence on bloodletting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnNO7vZBhmU
Re: Tatbir (flagellation) - A Disturbing Innovation by Demmzy15(m): 10:23pm On Oct 16, 2016
FriendChoice:


This lie pass 3D. Uncountable D
grin angry grin angry grin angry grin

1 Like

Re: Tatbir (flagellation) - A Disturbing Innovation by MrOlai: 6:27am On Oct 17, 2016
AlBaqir:
^Hey yah sorry. Chest beating and taking off shirt never add up to blood ritual via body flagellation.

# And I need to add: The word "Haram" simply means it is legislatedly forbidden by Allah or His Nabi. No scholar has the right to declare anything Haram which Allah or His Nabi never declared. Hence a good jurist should be careful using the word "halal" and "haram".


This is a fatwa from Ayatollah Seestani permitting and encouraging shia to slash themselves:

sino:


The following are the Fatawa of 19 of the most Eminent Maraje’ of the Shi'a world
regarding the TA’ZIA or AZADARI for Imam Hussain peace be upon him
[the list below is not exhaustive, but it only enlists some of the eminent Maraje'.]



Ayatollah al-Udhma al-Seyyid al-Seestani

The current leader of the Hawzah of the holy city of Najaf.

Question:
What is the ruling regarding the lashing with chains, chest beating, and walking on fire on the occasion of mourning the martyrdom of Imam Hussain peace be upon him?

Answer:
If (these are) not associated with extreme harm or loss of limb, there is no objection.


Albaqir and deception!

Shaytan(la) needs to give you PhD in Deception!

3 Likes

Re: Tatbir (flagellation) - A Disturbing Innovation by Nobody: 6:32am On Oct 17, 2016
lol MrOlai,
sino posts don suffer for your hand grin grin

2 Likes

Re: Tatbir (flagellation) - A Disturbing Innovation by MrOlai: 6:40am On Oct 17, 2016
lexiconkabir:
lol MrOlai,

sino posts don suffer for your hand grin grin


Gaskiya my Brother! grin

1 Like

Re: Tatbir (flagellation) - A Disturbing Innovation by Nobody: 6:52am On Oct 17, 2016
MrOlai:



Gaskiya my Brother! grin

sino will be like;

3 Likes

Re: Tatbir (flagellation) - A Disturbing Innovation by sino(m): 9:46am On Oct 17, 2016
AlBaqir:
^Hey yah sorry. Chest beating and taking off shirt never add up to blood ritual via body flagellation.

# And I need to add: The word "Haram" simply means it is legislatedly forbidden by Allah or His Nabi. No scholar has the right to declare anything Haram which Allah or His Nabi never declared. Hence a good jurist should be careful using the word "halal" and "haram".
Why not present where Sistani said tatbir is haram! So he allowed you guys can hit your heads, and beat your chests, but all of a sudden hitting your head with sword or knife and beating your chests with chains, cannot be found, so no Shi'a asked him such questions?!

AlBaqir, this is for you, Kwantinue!!!

4 Likes

Re: Tatbir (flagellation) - A Disturbing Innovation by sino(m): 10:01am On Oct 17, 2016
lexiconkabir:


sino will be like;




grin grin grin

The Shirazi site blew the Shi'a lies to smatterings, so they want me to believe Shirazi had to go the extra mile to fabricate fatwas of different Ayatollahs, Presented their names, their status and pictures, paste it on the internet for all to see, then no one of them have challenged the claims on the site....At least they would have presented the correct fatwas of those mentioned where they said tatbir is haram, I am still waiting for them to present their proofs...
Re: Tatbir (flagellation) - A Disturbing Innovation by Nobody: 10:06am On Oct 17, 2016
sino:


grin grin grin

The Shirazi site blew the Shi'a lies to smatterings, so they want me to believe Shirazi had to go the extra mile to fabricate fatwas of different Ayatollahs, Presented their names, their status and pictures, paste it on the internet for all to see, then no one of them have challenged the claims on the site....At least they would have presented the correct fatwas of those mentioned where they said tatbir is haram, I am still waiting for them to present their proofs...


Cc: ShiaMuslim

3 Likes

Re: Tatbir (flagellation) - A Disturbing Innovation by Demmzy15(m): 10:29am On Oct 17, 2016
lexiconkabir:



Cc: ShiaMuslim
Cc ShiaMuslim!

3 Likes

Re: Tatbir (flagellation) - A Disturbing Innovation by ShiaMuslim: 10:44am On Oct 17, 2016
Ayatollah Sistani releases official fatwas with his seal or directly from his official website (www.sistani.org) .

If the alleged fatwa of Ayatollah Sistani has neither a seal and nor from his website (no link), that fatwa is not genuine.

I just checked the above website.

I checked the Q&A and also made a search on tatbeer or tatbir and I got no results.
Re: Tatbir (flagellation) - A Disturbing Innovation by ShiaMuslim: 10:58am On Oct 17, 2016
Demmzy15:
Cc ShiaMuslim!

Why are you guys excited about tatbeer?

We owe you guys no explanation. The 1% among us who do it, do it on their bodies. You guys should be ashamed of the ideology of terror you follow which sees your brothers blow up people of other faiths in takfiri attacks.

Even those among us like myself and Albaqir who are in the overwhelming majority and we condemn tatbeer, we still understand the rationale behind the 1% who perform it. It's symbolic and its philosophical. Imam Hussein (as) was killed along with his household and companions by your fifth Sunni caliph. He was abandoned and betrayed by the hypocrites. The blood letting the minority perform either sincerely because they are overtaken by emotions or for show, is symbolic that they can use their blood to defend Imam Hussein (as). Now what is halal and what is haram? In Islam, actions are judged by intentions.

You're following apparent error and supporting the path of the enemies of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and the conspiracy of Saqifa, yet you make tatbeer an issue beyond its proportions. It's 1% or even less that do tatbir. The beauty of Shia Islam is that we are allowed to hold differing views on matters of jurisprudence and the branches of religion without us fighting among ourselves or shedding the blood of one another or passing on ourselves Takfir like your people do.

People who share an ideology with those who use the same ideology to justify shedding the blood of innocent people of other faiths have no grounds to make tatbeer an issue.

You guys should continue being childish and have fun. Brother Albaqir shouldn't entertain you guys.
Re: Tatbir (flagellation) - A Disturbing Innovation by MrOlai: 12:27pm On Oct 17, 2016
See drama here!

Albaqir speaking with both sides of his mouth:

"Shia Scholars have declared it HARAM! They have not decleared it HARAM"!

See deception oooo! grin

AlBaqir:


# To sino post, unfortunately his only reference is the same al-shirazi website I have castigated. Is that an evidence?

# The two leading maraji of about 90% Shia worldwide are Ayatullah Ali Sistani and Ayatullah Ali Khameini. They both have official websites where their books and fatwas can be checked. THEY BOTH DECLARE TATBIR HARAM based on many facts top of which is it does not exist in the Quran, sunnah of the Nabi and the Ahl al-bayt..


AlBaqir:
^Hey yah sorry. Chest beating and taking off shirt never add up to blood ritual via body flagellation.

# And I need to add: The word "HARAM" simply means it is legislatedly forbidden by Allah or His Nabi. NO SCHOLAR HAS THE RIGHT to declare anything HARAM which Allah or His Nabi never declared. Hence a good jurist should be careful using the word "halal" and "haram".

3 Likes

Re: Tatbir (flagellation) - A Disturbing Innovation by sino(m): 5:00pm On Oct 17, 2016
Well I found another relevant information from Shirazi site again, this time around, it was a fatwa passed during Ashura 1423 H. And this time around it has the pictures of the Ayatollahs, the scanned image of their statement with their stamps and signature.

Please see here: http://imamshirazi.com/tatbir%20fatawa1423.html

It should be noted that only 7 Ayatollahs were mentioned here, some of the names of these 7 can also be found in the earlier list already presented.

ALBaqir and ShiaMuslim, were are the statements of your Ayatollahs (with stamps and signature, perhaps with scanned pix too, at least Shirazi did his homework), except for Ayatollah Khamenei, that states categorically that tatbir is HARAM?!

Are all these Ayatollahs who said tatbir is permissible misguided?!

3 Likes

Re: Tatbir (flagellation) - A Disturbing Innovation by Demmzy15(m): 10:35am On Oct 18, 2016
ShiaMuslim:


A Wahhabi, or whosoever for that matter, calling a Shia "nasibi" and "takfiri" shows how religiously and spiritually bankrupt you are.

Of course I'm a Wahabi, who hates and preaches against terrorism just as how scholars of Wahhabism of past and present had done. While you're a fake lover of Ahl Bayt, a Nasibi who hates the Ahl Bayt and a Takfir who has declared wives and close companions apostates. Don't even try and do takkiyyah here.

If you don't know those are trademark words we use to describe our haters and enemies and the enemies of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and their followers, you must be drunk on Yazeed's urine. You are lost as to whether to follow the Ahlul-Bayt (as) or their enemies, so you end up following both; and that is of no use islamically.

See this soldier ant o, you're like the Christians. They claim to love and adore Jesus, but in reality they're far from him. So those the Shia, you claim to love the Ahl Bayt, whereas in reality you're far from them. They'll deny you on that day just as how Isa would deny the nasara! tongue

Find out the meaning and origin of the word "nasibi" and the word "takfiri". Otherwise there's no need talking to someone this ignorant. Your religious points are based on blind allegiance and sentiments.

I know the meaning and I state again, you're a Nasibi and a Takfiri! undecided

5 Likes 1 Share

Re: Tatbir (flagellation) - A Disturbing Innovation by AlBaqir(m): 3:41pm On Oct 18, 2016
[size=14pt]In the name of Allah, the Beneficent the Merciful, I beg you guys to stop abusing and labeling one another with all sort of names. It has grown embarrassing and contradict the Quran and Sunnah that all of you claimed to believe in.[/size].

Sissie I implore you to close this thread should this embarrassing attitudes continue.

Fi amanillah

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Tatbir (flagellation) - A Disturbing Innovation by AlBaqir(m): 4:44am On Aug 26, 2020
TATBIR (BODYFLAGELLATION) IS HARAM IN SHI'A FIQH (ISLAMIC JURISPRUDENCE)

Surah Al-Hujraat, Verse 6:

O you who believe! if an evil-doer comes to you with a report, look carefully into it, lest you harm a people in ignorance, then be sorry for what you have done."


It has become a tradition that every year during Ashura commemoration, both western media and uninformed individuals will ignorantly or deliberately flood the internet with pictures and videos of _certain Shia_ with their practice of tatbir where sharp objects like knives, swords etc are used to injure themselves for blood to gush out, all in the name of mourning the greousome and barbaric killing of Imam Husein and his blessed companions.

Little do people know that some of these pictures and videos are:

1. Old pictures and videos but reposted every year to fool people

2. Some of the scene are choreographed and acted just like films are acted by the Hollywood and Nollywood actors

Besides, some Shia extremists do practice tatbir in truth but they do not represent Shia mainstream.

FACTS

# For a fact, tatbir (body flagellation) is Haram according to the Fatawa of the Shia leading scholars (dead or alive). For example,  here's the fatwa of Ayatullah Ali Khameini:

{[Q. Is hitting oneself with swords ḥalāl if it is done in secret? Or is your fatwā in this regard universal?

A: In addition to the fact that it is not held in the common view as manifestations of mourning and grief and it has no precedent at the lifetime of the Imams (a.s.) and even after that and we have not received any tradition quoted from the Infallibles (a.s.) about any support for this act, be it privately or publicly, this practice would, at the present time, give others a bad image of our school of thought. Therefore, there is no way that it can be considered permissible.]}

https://www.leader.ir/en/content/21984/Performing-tat%CC%A3b%C4%ABr-(qamazan%C4%AB)-secretly


# A website is dedicated to educate people on the history and Shia scholar's fatawa on tatbir declaring it HARAM (FORBIDDEN): http://tatbir.org/

Furthermore, 41 Shia Fatawa from various Shi'a scholars were put together in the same website: http://tatbir.org/?page_id=98

Shia mainstream knew tatbir to be haram and refrain from it, leaving only the extremists who called themselves Shia. However, those who chose to cause fitnat will stoop so low hiding popular and majority view on tatbir but display extreme view and practice to misguide and poison people's mind.

# The fact that tatbir is haram, this is the reason some Shia Ulama advice to donate blood at the hospitals for those in need of it, rather than participating in the barbaric practice of tatbir and zanjeer where blood is wasted.

LAST SHOT

99% of the world terrorists from Boko haram to ISIS and al-Qaeda with their heinous crimes against humanity, ALL of them with no exception profess Salafiyyah of Ahlu Sunnah. And today, the western world media have "succeeded" in synchronizing Sunnism or Ahlu Sunnah to terrorism because of these extremists and bad egg. Is such generalization accepted by Islam?

Quran says:

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 8:

"O you who believe! Be upright for Allah, bearers of witness with justice, and let not hatred of a people incite you not to act equitably; act equitably, that is nearer to piety, and he careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is Aware of what you do."


Therefore, why would any rational human being and Muslim who believe in the above noble verse pack all the Shia together and ascribe such greousome and barbaric practice to them all?

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