lexiconkabir:


Good, then this hadith says those on left hand side had their face to be as dark as charcoal, other hadith says those on the left hand sides are the disbelievers, why cant both hadith be reconciled such that the ones that disbelieved will be the ones that will get their face darkened which takes us back to the first ayah i quoted?

If because the hadith mentioned just black and white, then to you is not reliable, will you then say Allaah's word is not reliable because some people face will become tabyadu and taswadu only without any other color? A'udhubillaah!

# The hadith in question talks about creation and beginning of man. The ayah and the hadith in Buhari talks about The day of reckoning.

# The hadith in question talks about Descendant of Adam - White and black man. The ayah talks about bright and dark Faces.

# The hadith talks about racial selection and injustice placement with injustice statement of "I don't care". The ayah talks about Allah's selection based on belief and deeds. Really Allah cares as regard to these two in apportioning Paradise and Hell.

How on earth can you marry these separate entities together and say it's the same? Haba!

AlBaqir:


Kindly point out where the hadith selected based on deeds as you claim.

There is no deed in the text of the narration, I was explaining based on the understanding of what leads man into hell or paradise. It seems when you want to start this your probing the authenticity of sahih hadith in sunni books, you forget Islam totally, and argue like one who is alien to Islam. Another question, the narration says enter hell and enter paradise, are the descendants of Adam in either places now?! Does this not imply that it is referring to what would happen at the end?! I thought you pride yourself in understanding the metaphorical and all other figures of speech that is involved in communication in Arabic?!

For the fact that Qur'an had mentioned people of the right, and people of the left, as well as those whose faces would be black, and those with white faces, should have been enough for a sincere believer.

AlBaqir:


# Ma sha Allah. He is All-Knowing, All-Powerful. However His knowledge and power is supported by other attributes of His - Adl (Justice ) and Hikma (Wisdom). That is why He is Al-Adl and al-Hakim.

But you are the one questioning His wisdom and justice by poorly criticizing a narration you fail to understand. If I, a Professor in a University, enters a class for the first time and inform my students, in this class, there are two groups, those that would pass, and those that would fail. Have I been unjust?! It is a fact that there would be those who would fail and those who would pass, I have superior knowledge with regards to this, so I can boldly inform the class of this, at the beginning of the class.

AlBaqir:

# The fact that He knows where every individual will end up doesn't mean He decreed it forcefully to the extent that whoever is doing good deeds but hell has been decreed for him, will just switch to bad deeds and die with it and enter hell.

What would you say of a man who had been righteous, and close to his last days, he committed shrik?! or an idol worshipper who died fews days after accepting Islam?! Does the narration says he forced people to end up in hell?! Just like the analogy of the university professor I presented above, there would be a group of descendants of Adam (AS) who would end up in paradise, and another group in hell, those in paradise are described with being white (illuminated) and those in hell black (devoid of light, burnt and black like charcoal).

AlBaqir:

# Here we talk about Monotheism and Polytheism. Not Atheism.

# Atheists are thieves. And there arguments are irrational. Nobody is born as atheist. They usually grew up with certain "monotheistic belief" and change after.

# What majority of them do not believe is the Islamic or Christianic God. Many of them now believe the positivity of a "Designer". Their inner rationality and thought which they outwardly denied made many of them to divulge these secret.

# Kindly check two videos I upload under the thread, "God and Evolution".

Well I do not really care, the fact is atheist do not believe God exist!

AlBaqir:

# I have said lot on this already.



# Again this point of yours which I agree with is one of many deadly punches that expose that bogus "sahih" had it.

Lol, you are just deluding yourself bro, which deadly punches?! You are the one infusing the meaning of race and skin colour into the narration, it is your problem not mine. Since it is established that we do not have just two races or skin colours in the world, and the fact that the Qur'an talks of similar information, i.e people of the left and the right, as well as those with black and white faces, then it is only logical to conclude that the narration is never about race or colour!

AlBaqir:


# The hadith in question talks about creation and beginning of man. The ayah and the hadith in Buhari talks about The day of reckoning.

# The hadith in question talks about Descendant of Adam - White and black man. The ayah talks about bright and dark Faces.

# The hadith talks about racial selection and injustice placement with injustice statement of "I don't care". The ayah talks about Allah's selection based on belief and deeds. Really Allah cares as regard to these two in apportioning Paradise and Hell.

How on earth can you marry these separate entities together and say it's the same? Haba!

So you are choosing to pick this narration in isolation? I asked you a question but you ignored, a question that perhaps will make it clear, i talked about predestination then asked what Allaah meant by "he misguides whom he wills"

Or are you one of those shi'a that believe in the concept of bada?

tunderay:
is this Hadith authentic? Everything the Prophet said is contrary to this, I don't believe this Hadith

always wait for proper explanation or do your research before you make such careless statement.

lexiconkabir:


the hadith is authentic, so don't say you don't believe it, maybe you should read the explanation I gave.

OK, thanks

sino:

The narration is authentic, Allah (SWT) had established the two sets of humans, those on the right and those on the left, those destined for paradise and those destined for hell respectively. The colour reference has nothing to do with skin colour, other evidences proves this, both in the Qur'an and Hadith.

OK, thanks

udatso:

always wait for proper explanation or do your research before you make such careless statement.

Thanks

Trust albaqir would bring it on

The hadith, as I said before, OWE NI.

I'm not the type that supports anything and everything placed in Sahih hadith but I rather be selective after going through some searches.

This particular hadith in the op, OWE NI


It is only problematic if taken literally. If the above hadith is taken to signify that inhabitants of both Paradise and Hell Fire will be from amongst the descendants of Adam (a.s), it's fair determination.

But if the quoted hadith statements are taken to mean that Allah created one race or color of people for Paradise and another for Hell, or that all people of race, color would go to paradise and the other for Hell, then such determination are absolutely against the clear Guidance and cannot be accepted as authentic.

Allah says in sura Al-Qur'an ayat 6-11. Read that yourself.

This is very simple.

Empiree:
Trust albaqir would bring it on

The hadith, as I said before, OWE NI.

I'm not the type that supports anything and everything placed in Sahih hadith but I rather be selective after going through some searches.

This particular hadith in the op, OWE NI


It is only problematic if taken literally. If the above hadith is taken to signify that inhabitants of both Paradise and Hell Fire will be from amongst the descendants of Adam (a.s), it's fair determination.

But if the quoted hadith statements are taken to mean that Allah created one race or color of people for Paradise and another for Hell, or that all people of race, color would go to paradise and the other for Hell, then such determination are absolutely against the clear Guidance and cannot be accepted as authentic.

Allah says in sura Al-Qur'an ayat 6-11. Read that yourself.

This is very simple.

@@bold, unfortunately that is exactly what this hadith says even with that unjust, racial statement which all these brothers ran far away from. I meant the statement of "I don't care ". Is that also "Owe?"

AlBaqir:


@@bold, unfortunately that is exactly what this hadith says even with that unjust, racial statement which all these brothers ran far away from. I meant the statement of "I don't care ". Is that also "Owe?"

Is anybody in hell or heaven now?

sino:

But you are the one questioning His wisdom and justice by poorly criticizing a narration you fail to understand. If I, a Professor in a University, enters a class for the first time and inform my students, in this class, there are two groups, those that would pass, and those that would fail. Have I been unjust?! It is a fact that there would be those who would fail and those who would pass, I have superior knowledge with regards to this, so I can boldly inform the class of this, at the beginning of the class.

# Unfortunately for you the hadith we talk about as already destined some class to Paradise and some to hell before they are even born and established on earth, and it even support it with "I don't care". I just don't understand why all of you run far far away from that statement.

# Your analogy never match. What matches the hadith is for the new prof to tell some selected students, "You are promoted to the next class" and to other students, "You are failed". And upon asking why this injustice? And he says, "I don't care".

AlBaqir:


@@bold, unfortunately that is exactly what this hadith says even with that unjust, racial statement which all these brothers ran far away from. I meant the statement of "I don't care ". Is that also "Owe?"

Well, that shouldn't be much of a problem. The phrase " I don't care" should be discounted as one of those attributed flinges . I believe the hadith as a whole is khayr but just that little element was unnecessarily inserted. Another version of the hadith uses " I don't mind".

Empiree:
Well, that shouldn't be much of a problem. The phrase " I don't care" should be discounted as one of those attributed flinges . I believe the hadith as a whole is khayr but just that little element was unnecessarily inserted. Another version of the hadith uses " I don't mind".

Bro, you just don't make statements you cannot prove, especially with regards to religious issues. It is better you are silent. First let me bring a better translation of the said narration:

Narrated AbudDarda'

Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: Allah created Adam when He had to create him and He struck his right shoulder and there emitted from it white offspring as if they were white ants. He struck his left shoulder and there emitted from it the black offspring as if they were charcoal. He then said (to those who had been emitted) from the right (shoulder): For Paradise and I do not mind. Then He said to those (who had been emitted) from his left shoulder: They are for Hell and I do not mind.

Transmitted by Ahmad

Source: http://www.alim.org/library/hadith/TIR/38

Secondly, the narration used the same phrase for both the people of paradise and the people of hell, what does that tell you?! That is justice, each group getting what they deserve, and no prejudice involved! One of the first aspect of tawheed is to understand Allah's will, which is divided into two Qawniyah and Shar'iyah. When you have full understanding of this two, you wouldn't fall into doubts and skepticisms, and finding it difficult to accept and understand the narration in question.

sino:


Bro, you just don't make statements you cannot prove, especially with regards to religious issues. It is better you are silent. First let me bring a better translation of the said narration:

Narrated AbudDarda'

Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: Allah created Adam when He had to create him and He struck his right shoulder and there emitted from it white offspring as if they were white ants. He struck his left shoulder and there emitted from it the black offspring as if they were charcoal. He then said (to those who had been emitted) from the right (shoulder): For Paradise and I do not mind. Then He said to those (who had been emitted) from his left shoulder: They are for Hell and I do not mind.

Transmitted by Ahmad

Source: http://www.alim.org/library/hadith/TIR/38

Secondly, the narration used the same phrase for both the people of paradise and the people of hell, what does that tell you?! That is justice, each group getting what they deserve, and no prejudice involved! One of the first aspect of tawheed is to understand Allah's will, which is divided into two Qawniyah and Shar'iyah. When you have full understanding of this two, you wouldn't fall into doubts and skepticisms, and finding it difficult to accept and understand the narration in question.

I dont think what i said go against what you and lexicon have said. And what you said here doesnt contradicts what I said either. If I'd simply said it daef would have been different case. I m not naive when Quran speaks of "black and white faces". I know it is more like metaphorical. So your post here doesnt really concern me that much. As you can see, albaqir seems to disagree with me as well.

Maybe I should rephrase it. I said "If it is taken literally it would have been in conflict with Qur'an". Is that difficult to understand?. I dont think i have disagreed with what you and lexicon have been saying. Maybe you misunderstood my post.

Empiree:
I dont think what i said go against what you and lexicon have said. And what you said here doesnt contradicts what I said either. If I'd simply said it daef would have been different case. I m not naive when Quran speaks of "black and white faces". I know it is more like metaphorical. So your post here doesnt really concern me that much. As you can see, albaqir seems to disagree with me as well.

Maybe I should rephrase it. I said "If it is taken literally it would have been in conflict with Qur'an". Is that difficult to understand?. I dont think i have disagreed with what you and lexicon have been saying. Maybe you misunderstood my post.

I was referring to your statement, "I believe the hadith as a whole is khayr but just that little element was unnecessarily inserted", which I presume to mean was inserted by fabricators and the likes, if you mean the translation used by AlBaqir, then I am sorry for misunderstanding you.

Empiree:
I dont think what i said go against what you and lexicon have said. And what you said here doesnt contradicts what I said either. If I'd simply said it daef would have been different case. I m not naive when Quran speaks of "black and white faces". I know it is more like metaphorical. So your post here doesnt really concern me that much. As you can see, albaqir seems to disagree with me as well.

Maybe I should rephrase it. I said "If it is taken literally it would have been in conflict with Qur'an". Is that difficult to understand?. I dont think i have disagreed with what you and lexicon have been saying. Maybe you misunderstood my post.

actually I think he is speaking with respect to your statement;

I believe the hadith as a whole is khayr but just that little element was unnecessarily inserted.

do you have proof for the insertion? if insertion here means fabrication.

sino:


I was referring to your statement, "I believe the hadith as a whole is khayr but just that little element was unnecessarily inserted", which I presume to mean was inserted by fabricators and the likes, if you mean the translation used by AlBaqir, then I am sorry for misunderstanding you.

Oh no. when i said "little element was unnecessarily inserted", I was referring to a phrase "I dont care" in the hadith. In another version, is says " I dont mind".

Thats why i said the phrase should be discounted. I am not bothered much by the phrase. I already looked around and it was not addressed by scholars why the little statement is there.

Empiree:
Oh no. when i said "little element was unnecessarily inserted", I was referring to a phrase "I dont care" in the hadith. In another version, is says " I dont mind".

Thats why i said the phrase should be discounted. I am not bothered much by the phrase. I already looked around and it was not addressed by scholars why the little statement is there.

# I don't care, I don't mind. All na same brother. That's choice of English translation. It doesn't change anything. It remains a racial and unjust statement after a group have been destined for paradise and other for hell before they even came to earth and before they even sinned or do good deeds. Obviously it makes our actions here meaningless and Qiyamat, a mere show trial.

AlBaqir:


# I don't care, I don't mind. All na same brother. That's choice of English translation. It doesn't change anything. It remains a racial and unjust statement after a group have been destined for paradise and other for hell before they even came to earth and before they even sinned or do good deeds. Obviously it makes our actions here meaningless and Qiyamat, a mere show trial.

I understand bold part. But I am really saying is, it should be snubbed or discountred even though it sounds irrational. It doesn't bother me as a person.

lexiconkabir:


So you are choosing to pick this narration in isolation? I asked you a question but you ignored, a question that perhaps will make it clear, i talked about predestination then asked what Allaah meant by "he misguides whom he wills"

Or are you one of those shi'a that believe in the concept of bada?

@bold,
https://www.nairaland.com/1794405/islam-muslims-side-talk-station/73#50257718

AlBaqir:


# Ma sha Allah. He is All-Knowing, All-Powerful. However His knowledge and power is supported by other attributes of His - Adl (Justice ) and Hikma (Wisdom). That is why He is Al-Adl and al-Hakim.

# The fact that He knows where every individual will end up doesn't mean He decreed it forcefully to the extent that whoever is doing good deeds but hell has been decreed for him, will just switch to bad deeds and die with it and enter hell.



# Here we talk about Monotheism and Polytheism. Not Atheism.

# Atheists are thieves. And there arguments are irrational. Nobody is born as atheist. They usually grew up with certain "monotheistic belief" and change after.

# What majority of them do not believe is the Islamic or Christianic God. Many of them now believe the positivity of a "Designer". Their inner rationality and thought which they outwardly denied made many of them to divulge these secret.

# Kindly check two videos I upload under the thread, "God and Evolution".



# I have said lot on this already.



# Again this point of yours which I agree with is one of many deadly punches that expose that bogus "sahih" had it.

@bolded, actually everybody is born rational.

I have seen kids asking where is God, who's God, why did God do so so so... Reason because they think rational until parents and society started indoctrinate them.

Don't let atheist come for you.

Hadiths war-lords season #201

tintingz:
@bolded, actually everybody is born rational.

I have seen kids asking where is God, who's God, why did God do so so so... Reason because they think rational until parents and society started indoctrinate them.

# Wallah that's it. Thats exactly how Allah created man. Monotheism and knowledge of the Creator has been ingrained in our fitrah. Intellect brings it out no matter how small it is. Children are just too inquisitive and ask questions to know their natural environment. Here, you come across God. Look at the case of Nabi Ibrahim at childhood as explained in the Quran.

tintingz:
Don't let atheist come for you.

And they will meet me for house - wàn a bami ni le.

Always put in mind Albaqir, dat the arguments from muslims with ur weird kind of aqeeda with folks like LexiconKb, sino are for ppl who don't know abt islam well, thus the arguments, to clarify truth and condemn falsehood, if not, who get ur tym. Don't feel ur sef that ppl come 2 comment on ur 'posts' which are always misleading! Kb and co, pls don't go around in circles with him(albaqir) and him kind!

AlBaqir:


# Wallah that's it. Children are just too inquisitive and ask questions to know their natural environment. Here, you come across God. Look at the case of Nabi Ibrahim at childhood as explained in the Quran.

Abraham(AS) was destined to be a prophet.

I'm talking about people of this age, imagine yourself growing up in a society like China or india, imagine what you will believe in.

Now imagine yourself growing up where people don't believe in spirituality.

And they will meet me for house - wàn a bami ni le.

Are you ready to go rational with them since you think they are irrational?

tintingz:
Abraham(AS) was destined to be a prophet.

I'm talking about people of this age, imagine yourself growing up in a society like China or india, imagine what you will believe in.

Now imagine yourself growing up where people don't believe in spirituality.

# As per Ibrahim, his realization of God in such an idolatry environment was not an automatic decree. He worked his intellect out.

# I feel you with those examples. That's why Allah is just. Obviously the way He will judge people of such environment will be different to mine and yours environment. I bet you some will enter paradise without salat, zakat etc because they never heard of that throughout their entire lifespan.

tintingz:

Are you ready to go rational with them since you think they are irrational?

# My brother there are some irrational questions that will scatter their brain.

Kindly watch this video:

Does God Not Exist?

A debate between Theists and Atheists

# Origin of the universe

# Theory of the existence or non-existence of God

# Why Evil? Etc

*DEBATER*

Dan Baker

Richard Carrie

Hassanain Rajabali


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kEEYTaDwy4

AlBaqir:


# As per Ibrahim, his realization of God in such an idolatry environment was not an automatic decree. He worked his intellect out.

# I feel you with those examples. That's why Allah is just. Obviously the way He will judge people of such environment will be different to mine and yours environment. I bet you some will enter paradise without salat, zakat etc because they never heard of that throughout their entire lifespan.



# My brother there are some irrational questions that will scatter their brain.

Kindly watch this video:

Does God Not Exist?

A debate between Theists and Atheists

# Origin of the universe

# Theory of the existence or non-existence of God

# Why Evil? Etc

*DEBATER*

Dan Baker

Richard Carrie

Hassanain Rajabali


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kEEYTaDwy4

Ok.

The video length is long, I will take my time to watch it.

^ And in sha Allah you will enjoy every minute of it.

AlBaqir:
^ And in sha Allah you will enjoy every minute of it.

Have watched it, very interesting, I really enjoyed it.
Worth watching.

I love the unity the Muslim and Christian debaters did in the video.

Very intelligent presentation from both Theist and Atheist.

tintingz:
Have watched it, very interesting, I really enjoyed it.
Worth watching.

I love the unity the Muslim and Christian debaters did in the video.

Very intelligent presentation from both Theist and Atheist.

Ma sha Allah.

Wa Salam alaykum brother

AlBaqir:


ﺭﻭﻯ ﺃﺣﻤﺪ ﻓﻲ ‏ﻣﺴﻨﺪﻩ‏ ﺑﺈﺳﻨﺎﺩ ﺻﺤﻴﺢ ﻋﻦ ﺃﺑﻲ ﺍﻟﺪﺭﺩﺍﺀ ﻋﻦ ﺍﻟﻨﺒﻲ ﺻﻠﻰ ﺍﻟﻠﻪ ﻋﻠﻴﻪ ﻭﺳﻠﻢ ﻗﺎﻝ: ﺧﻠﻖ ﺍﻟﻠﻪ ﺁﺩﻡ ﺣﻴﻦ ﺧﻠﻘﻪ، ﻓﻀﺮﺏ ﻛﺘﻔﻪ ﺍﻟﻴﻤﻨﻰ، ﻓﺄﺧﺮﺝ ﺫﺭﻳﺔ ﺑﻴﻀﺎﺀ ﻛﺄﻧﻬﻢ ﺍﻟﺬﺭ، ﻭﺿﺮﺏ ﻛﺘﻔﻪ ﺍﻟﻴﺴﺮﻯ، ﻓﺄﺧﺮﺝ ﺫﺭﻳﺔ ﺳﻮﺩﺍﺀ ﻛﺄﻧﻬﻢ ﺍﻟﺤﻤﻢ، ﻓﻘﺎﻝ ﻟﻠﺬﻱ ﻓﻲ ﻳﻤﻴﻨﻪ: ﺇﻟﻰ ﺍﻟﺠﻨﺔ ﻭﻻ ﺃﺑﺎﻟﻲ، ﻭﻗﺎﻝ ﻟﻠﺬﻱ ﻓﻲ ﻛَﻔِّﻪ ﺍﻟﻴﺴﺮﻯ: ﺇﻟﻰ ﺍﻟﻨﺎﺭ ﻭﻻ ﺃﺑﺎﻟﻲ.

رواه أحمد (6/441) (27528). قال الهيثمي في ((مجمع الزوائد)) (7/188): رواه أحمد والبزار والطبراني ورجاله رجال الصحيح. وقال الألباني في ((السلسلة الصحيحة)) (49): صحيح.



TRANSLATION:

Ahmad (ibn Hanbal) narrates in his Musnad with a sahih chain from Abu al-Darda from the Prophet, peace be upon him, who said:

"Allah created Adam when He created him. Then, He struck his right shoulder and He brought out white descendants, as if they were white ants. He also struck his left shoulder, and brought out black descendants, as if they were charcoal. Then He said to those on his right side: 'To Paradise, and I do not care.' And He said to those in his left shoulder: 'To Hellfire, and I do not care.'"

Al-Albani says in Silsilat as-Sahihah, no. 49: "Sahih."

http://islamport.com/w/alb/Web/3111/49.htm

Explanations from Sunni scholars or various individuals on this "sahih" hadith will be appreciated

# This hadith is also found in Shi'i book, Kitab al-kafi with hasan (good) chain.

Fear Allah and don't misguide people what was the last sermon of the prophet.