WHO CAUSES DISASTERS?
GOD OR THE DEVIL?
IF U SAY D DEVIL THEN GOD IS NOT IN CONTROL OF THE WORLD AND DATS QUITE AMUSING FOR AN ALL POWERFUL BEING NOT TO BE IN CHARGE OF WHAT HE CREATED, IF U SAY GOD THEN HE IS PROBABLY NOT GOOD ALL THE TIME AS CHRISTIANS PROFESS, CUZ AINT NOTHING GOOD IN DESTRUCTION AND SORROWS DAT BEFALL HUMANITY WENEVA EARTHQUAKES OR HURRICANES HIT US HARD!SO PLEASE CAN SUM1 TELL ME WHO CALLS THE SHOT ON THIS, AND PLEASE DONT TELL ME THEY R NATURAL , BECUZ CHRISTIANS SAY NOTHING HAPPENS BY ACCIDENT: HENCE THE THEORY OF CAUSE AND EFFECT .
I THROW THIS QUESTION TO THE XTIANS PUNDITS IN DA HOUSE,

This Poo is serious.

Try to reason with religious zealots is a futile effort. To them reason and logic are gifts from the devil

Abi o and we are suppose 2 believe he loves. I tink god(dog) is a sadist. Wen u hear of hw pple die like flies u cnt help but reason that god is nt in charge but nature

no, they say people's purpose is in death

blackcypha:

WHO CAUSES DISASTERS?
GOD OR THE DEVIL?
IF U SAY D DEVIL THEN GOD IS NOT IN CONTROL OF THE WORLD AND DATS QUITE AMUSING FOR AN ALL POWERFUL BEING NOT TO BE IN CHARGE OF WHAT HE CREATED, IF U SAY GOD THEN HE IS PROBABLY NOT GOOD ALL THE TIME AS CHRISTIANS PROFESS, CUZ AINT NOTHING GOOD IN DESTRUCTION AND SORROWS DAT BEFALL HUMANITY WENEVA EARTHQUAKES OR HURRICANES HIT US HARD!SO PLEASE CAN SUM1 TELL ME WHO CALLS THE SHOT ON THIS, AND PLEASE DONT TELL ME THEY R NATURAL , BECUZ CHRISTIANS SAY NOTHING HAPPENS BY ACCIDENT: HENCE THE THEORY OF CAUSE AND EFFECT .
I THROW THIS QUESTION TO THE XTIANS PUNDITS IN DA HOUSE,

I remember a few year ago there was a violent earthquake in a small city in South America and most of the people in the streets were unhurt but the church's roof collapsed killing and injuring so many Christians. This raise some interresting questions; who was responsible for the collapse of the roof of the church?.

Atheists:

Try to reason with religious zealots is a futile effort. To them reason and logic are gifts from the devil

It is futile because we are arguing on different grounds. I am not even motivated to respond to the question because I doubt that the OP genuinely wants to hear another side.

so why havnt the zealots like a.k.o responded to this intelligent question eeh?

blackcypha:

so why havnt the zealots like a.k.o responded to this intelligent question eeh?

Because christians have no answers to this question.

Horus:

Because christians have no answers to this question.

Okay
I don't expect you to make any sense of what I am about to say because we are arguing on different grounds; just goes back to my initial point.

blackcypha:

IF U SAY D DEVIL THEN GOD IS NOT IN CONTROL OF THE WORLD AND DATS QUITE AMUSING FOR AN ALL POWERFUL BEING NOT TO BE IN CHARGE OF WHAT HE CREATED

Exactly. Because the devil actually controls the system of the world:
John 12:31: Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out.

The devil is called the prince of this wold four times. God created the world "and it was good", but Adam handed it over to satan when he sinned. How could Adam commit such an atrocity against an All Powerful Being? Its not far fetched:

Psalm 115:16: The highest heavens belong to the LORD, but the earth he has given to man.

So what about natural disasters? Well Jesus' calming of the storm proves that natural disasters are created by the devil. First,
Mark 3:24:If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

And here's what Jesus did to the storm:
Mark 4:39: He got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves, "Quiet! Be still!" Then the wind died down and it was completely calm.

If indeed God caused the storm, Jesus would not have rebuked the storm because a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. QED.

Amos 3:6 kjv
(6) Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Amos 3:6 cev
(6) Isn't the whole city frightened when the trumpet signals an attack? Isn't it the LORD who brings disaster on a city?

Amo 3:6 bbe
(6) If the horn is sounded in the town will the people not be full of fear? will evil come on a town if the Lord has not done it?

God is responsible for everything we see or experience. The sooner we realize and accept this fact, the easier it is for us.

The devil is just a perfectly functioning creation of God.

^ ^ ^
I'm glad you have quoted this scriptre, howbeit out of context. You've introduced us to the fact that God does cause some disaster to happen. The only difference is that God does this as a form of righteous judgement for peoples' sins. This is the pattern in scripture and is even a few verses above this, if only you quoted in context:
Amos 3:
1 Hear this word the LORD has spoken against you, O people of Israel—against the whole family I brought up out of Egypt:
2 "You only have I chosen
of all the families of the earth;
therefore I will punish you
for all your sins."

So God made His intentions very clear. It is not my place to decide who caused which contemporary disaster and attempting to do that is quite futile because we may never know.

But what you said earlier made it look like God could never do any thing like destruction or disasters; that if such did happen, it must be the devil's doing.

The truth is, everything that happens is by God and for God. He is in total control; not the wimpy god people make him out to be when they make it look like things are out of his control.

Evil is a creation of God and it does happen when God deems it necessary.

Isa 45:7 kjv
(7)  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Isa 45:7 cev
(7)  I create light and darkness, happiness and sorrow. I, the LORD, do all of this.

Isa 45:7 bbe
(7)  I am the giver of light and the maker of the dark; causing blessing, and sending troubles; I am the Lord, who does all these things.


The word for evil,sorrow and troubles as transliterated by the three bible versions above is:   רע

or[b] ra‛[/b] in hebrew.

It is this same word that is used for evil in every other part of the bible written in hebrew.

the is God wicked? using us the way he likes because he's God, what the point here,

Your god caused an earthquake in a South American city who created the collapse of the roof of the church, killing and injuring so many Christians.[b]WHY?[/B]
As usual christians refuse to answers this questions.

^ ^ ^
I can't speak for all christians but I cannot answer this question because I don't know who caused it, neither do I know why it happened.

ttalks i can only conclude one tin from the scriptures u quoted.
GOD IS A SUPREME FASCIST WHO TOILS WITH US AS HE LIKES.
its like he has laid every tin out frm the onset and we r just playing it out like a drama while
he sits down and laffs off his ass, the bible said dat he causes disaster, the question now is, IS GOD GOOD ALL THE TIME?, MY ANSWER IS HELL NO!

A.K.O why dont u respond to the isaiah 45: 7 verse?
r u confused to explain how a GOOD GOD causes SORROW OR EVIL?
it is easy to see how contradictory d bible is ,so why not accept the GNOSTIC view dat the God of the old testament is not d same person dat is Jesus!CUZ JESUS LIKE A TRUE HUMANITARIAN PREACHED NOTHING BUT LOVE,
dat is wat the romans tot u to belief,DAT THERE R 3 PERSONS IN ONE GOD, quite funny when it is clear dat they have different dispositions, but think without bias ,

Actually, what has happened is that the whole world is out of order. The earth was without form and void and God came and made everything good. But sin brought a curse and withdrew God's preservation. Now all things are in chaos, but we look for a new heaven and new earth. Till then, let God guide you daily.

Jesus said there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. He talked more about hell than any other.how 'humanitarian' that is, I won't tell. Go and learn to read the Bible before running commentaries

What a funny question? Does it matter who caused them? All that matters is there is a causes that brought every effect. So in an answer to your question is men that brought these disasters upon themselve. Disaster has never being a cause, but an effect. What you should be asking is what causes the disaster? the asnwer is our
Sin. God has made it clear for man what attracts these disasters to us which is sin (Duet 28) an also 2 Chronicles 7:14
"if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

That tells you that we face today's diesasters becoz of our Sin. The world today has sinned more than sodom and Gommoreah, as such brought these disaster upon ourselves. So you cant blame God for them, neither is he the one tht directly brought them to you. He permits these disasters to come upon, becoz we have already brought them unto ourselves by sins and abominable acts against him. Isaiah 3:8-9 (New International Version)
8 Jerusalem staggers,
       Judah is falling;
       their words and deeds are against the LORD,
       defying his glorious presence.
9 The look on their faces testifies against them;
       they parade their sin like Sodom;
       they do not hide it.
       Woe to them!
       They have brought disaster upon themselves.

If you then ask the meduim through these disasters come to us. I will tell they all come from the devil, becoz he is already going to and fro looking for whom to distroy. he already have this power of distruction in him. But can not distroy until God permitts him to do so. That is what still made God the Almighty. Devil works with his intruction, so when you sin against God and refuse to repent he pemitts these things to come upon you.
For example, in the book of 1 kings 22:20 -22  "2And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?'
      "One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.'

22 " 'By what means?' the LORD asked.
      " 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said.
      " 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.'
If you read down you can see that the lying spirit he put on Ahabs phropets lead him into a war where he was destroyed. So who will you bame for Ahab's death? God? You blame Ahab for his death, coz if you read the book of first kings you will see all the evil and abomination he committed against God.

Ok in verse 23 see how the prophet of God Micaah delivered the prophecy.
" 23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."

You can see that all other prophecy was not elaborated as this, they didnt explain in detail all that they saw or probably depending on what God revealed to them ,so they prophecised jst as prophet Micaiah did in verse 23.

To further explain to you that all these come from the devil but permitted by God, in the book of Job 1: 1-12
6 One day the angels  came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
      Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."
And in Verse 11 and 12 it says
11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."
12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."
      Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.
You can see here devil asking God for permition to smith Job, when he asked for the permition he said but stretch[b] your[/b] hands(God) and strike everything he has. becoz of Jobs righteousness God gave him a limit to which he can go. So satan could not go beyond the limit God gave to him. This is to tell you that despite Satan delivers the disasters, the authourity to go ahead lies in the Hands of God as the Almighty god.

So my brother is very simple and logical.
You sin against the highest Authourity(GOD), you attracts purnishment to yourself (disaster) and  Satan delivers the purnishment to you(the delivery)
Who caused the punishement upon you? God? Nope, but you.
Just like a president made a law, you offended the law and attract death imprisonment to yourself, the judges condemn and deliver the punishement unto. Who caused your life imprisonment? the president or the Judge? Of coz YOU. Mind you, despite the judge delivering your punishment, the president still have the ultimate power to reverse the punishement based on some reasons. The same thing goes with God when we sin against him, we attract these punishemnt unto ourselves. he still have the ultimate power to reverse the punishment if we ask for his forgiveness. That is why he said in the book of Chronicles 7:14
"if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

quite funny ,
an earthquake just hit haiti killing tens of thousands of people, including CHRISTIANS(the archbishop was killed too)
again i ask princekevo and other xtians
is it also your sins that caused this quake?remember that devout xtians died in their tousands including the bishop.so how would you reconcile your idea that sin caused it ?
why didnt the quake kill only the wicked and sinful peolple?

blackcypha:

quite funny ,
an earthquake just hit haiti killing tens of thousands of people, including CHRISTIANS(the archbishop was killed too)
again i ask princekevo and other xtians
is it also your sins that caused this quake?remember that devout xtians died in their tousands including the bishop.so how would you reconcile your idea that sin caused it ?
why didnt the quake kill only the wicked and sinful peolple?

My brother i made my statement b4 the haitian earth, before i got crucified.
To answer you question i will first let you understand that Calamities are different from death. Calamities might occour as a result of punishement of sin(Isaiah 3:8-9) or as a test of faith in God (Job 1:1-12), but death on its own that might occour from a calamity is inevitable. There are many calamities that happened with 0 or less death. e.g last year financial crisis that hit the whole world, many billioniers lost billions , many become wretched as a result of that, Global warming we are suffering from today,etc. These are also disaster and camalities. I know many will argue these to be a calamity, becoz to a lay man, only events that occoured with mass death can be seen as a calamity or disaster.

Ok let see true meaning of Calamity.
1.An event that brings terrible loss, lasting distress, or severe affliction; a disaster: A hurricane would be a calamity for this low-lying coastal region.
2.Dire distress resulting from loss or tragedy.(Answers.com)
what is a disaster?
1.
a.An occurrence causing widespread destruction and distress; a catastrophe.
b.A grave misfortune.
2.Informal. A total failure: The dinner party was a disaster.
3.Obsolete. An evil influence of a star or planet.

From the definition of Calamity you can see that Calamities might come with death, but not all death are caused by calamity. Calamity or diseaster does not always come with death as we think. It is a diseaster or a calamity for a millioniar falling counting millions to a begger.


Having said this in conclusion, those that died out of calamities, was  their to time die( which is inevitabe, be you righteous or sinner, old or young). Every one is gonna die someday it doesnt matter how you die, be it out of a diseaster ,sickness or sleep. In a calamity or diseaster there are many that felt the impact severely, but still survived, but some that jst died with less or no impact on them. I watch the rescue operation of the earthquake that happened in china. The survival of a year old child still remain a mystery to me till tml. They had to dig the ground to bring out this baby, lo and hold she was still alive. To understand what am saying watch the rescue operation in haiti, you will see that the survival is not always according to the impact they felt from the diseaster. Also you see a lot of miracle, i may call it, to the survivals.
What am i saying in this extent, people die in a diseaster not becoz of their sin, but becoz it was their time to go home. In other thread i made it it clear that since the death of jesus christ on the cross, Physical death siezed to be a punishment of sin. Calamities or diseaster might be as a punishment for sin, but death comes as an inevitable.

Hope this answer your question?

well princekevo
i get ur explanation, but I dont buy it you may ask why,
The same bible says that God promised to bless /satisfy his believers with long life, i think it was one of the promises
made to abraham.so why will you now say death comes because it was their time to die?
Is God now a liar who promises to give his children long life and later renege on his promises by allowing earthquake to kill them?
please i need more clarification cuz i knw u r a pastor, but for me i have seen alot in my life to make me doubt the existence of God , so i took the agnostic
option .,

The same bible says that God promised  to bless /satisfy his believers with long life, i think it was one of the promises
made to Abrahamso why will you now say death comes because it was their time to die?

First, i must tell you that am not a pastor.
Well i love your sincere question.
One thing every true believer knows is that life is not abt how long you lived here on earth, but how fulfilled your life here on is. If i lived a life full of fulfillmentand died at the age of 60 am far better than those who live a life of Methuselah(A life without meaning). No true believer will be asking why God is taking him home early, but should be happy to join the eternal rest. Only those who have no assurance of wht become of them after death strive to live a longer life here on earth. The only king who strived to live longer on here earth ended up destroyingthe  future of his children, in jst extra 15 year he asked for.(Isaiah 38 and chpt. 39)

Have you ever asked yourself what makes God, God? That supreme power over the earth, Omnipotence, Omniscience and Omnipresent. Who are we to question his decision? He promised Moses to led the isrealites into cannan, but moses died in the wilderness without steppingnto the land of cannan, all the isrealite that receivedhis promise in Egypt died in the wilderness, only their children born in the wilderness was able to possess the land(Deut.3:37-39). Long life was among the promises of God to King solomon, but he live a fullfiled life and died at the age of 60year and to u that is not long life.


That is why the bible said in the book of (Romans 9:14-25)

14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,
   "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
      and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."[c] 16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."[d] 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "
21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25As he says in Hosea:
   "I will call them 'my people' who are not my people;
      and I will call her 'my loved one' who is not my loved one,"[f] 26and,
   "It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them,
      'You are not my people,'
   they will be called 'sons of the living God


So My brother God knows the future more than we do, that is why is appointed for every man to die someday, whenever it is right for us to go home. Instead of us wasting time thinking why those that departed had to die, we rather spend time to think why are we still living, and what is the pupose for our living? Are we living our life according to that purpose we are still alive? The short time we are to live here on earth, spend the time to think of how many lifes have you touched positively and how many have touched you. Are you living a life with a purpose, a life of fulfillments or just living a life of Methuselah( a life without meaning nor definition, but counting years).

@pricekevo
based on you r scriptural answers is it not right to assert that God is the supreme fascist who toils with our minds and watches everythin that
he has planned to play out while he sits up there laughing his almighty ass off?
I dont c any logical explanation again to the fact that he hardens anyone he wants to and shows mercy to whom he wants
is that not the attribute of a human dictator/fascist who doesnt entertain any questions from anyone?based on Isaiah 45 :7
shud God still be seen as an all loving God at all times as the xtians claim?

blackcypha:

@pricekevo
based on you r scriptural answers is it not right to assert that God is the supreme fascist who toils with our minds and watches everythin that
he has planned to play out while he sits up there laughing his almighty backside off?

This statement of urs made me laugh for real.

Our relationship with God is not different from the relationship that exist between an earthly father and his child. If you have kids you will best understand what am abt to explain. Every father want something good for the son. No father would ever watch his child fall into distruction while he just sit back watch and laugh, but every effort of a father to save his son from distruction can be seen by his son as sign of wickedness and dictatorship. Am a good example of that. I was brought up in a very strict family and as a child i viewed it as a sign of wickedness by my parents. I always asked myself why i cant play like other kids and do what ever i wanted to do like other kids, but those things i saw as wickedness and dictatorship then made me a better person and what i am today.

So my brother, God doesn't jst sit and watch all that he programmed play and he laugh his almighty backside off, lol. Look at what he said in the book of (Jeremiah 29:11) "For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end"..
God don't jst sit back and laugh at all this. To every believer, things don't jst happen as coincidence, but they all happen according to the plan, purpose and will of God to grant them an expected end. So the question is what is the purpose, plan and will of God for man? Read (Genesis 1: 26-31).

If you read the above passage you will understand that God created a man that was supposed to be like him, a man who can live a life above the death we are arguing here, a man who can dominate the earth and not being swallowed by a common earthquake, a man who can make the right decision on his own. But we lost that authority and dominion, at every point in time God is always disappointed in the man he created, becoz we make the wrong choices and decision for ourselves, that makes us now live on God's grace and mercy. He is never a dictator neither has he being a dictator, becoz even at that, man still reserve the right to say NO to whatever the will or purpose of God is for your life.e.g. Adam was the first man that changed the purpose of God for their life, Jabez did, Jesus could have changed the will of God for him to die on the cross in Gethsemane and many others. That can be generated into another topic, which is the perfect, and permissive will of God,that i cant go deep into now.

So man, we lost that Authority to make the right choice and decision for ourselves, therefore left God with no choice but to guide and direct us on the right decision to make. Being the supreme, he knows what is best for us. Is like a son who refused to grow up in making the right decision and choice, he will always find himself in the position of being dictated by the father on the right thing to do and decision making. And mind you the child still reserve the right to say no to whatever the father dictates for him or whtever choice of the father is, but the big question is this. Is it the right thing to do or profitable for the child to say no to the father's decision and choices even when he can barely make any good one for himself?

Please all should please listen to me.I am not here to make you change your belief nor am here provoke anyone but i am only here to say the truth.It is true that speech is free but the result td cannot bear it.JAMES 1:13 SAYS WHEN UNDER TRIAL LET NO ONE SAY I AM BEING TRIED BY GOD BECAUSE WITH EVIL THINGS GOD CANNOT BE TRIED NOR DOES IF TRY ANYONE.The faithful man JOB ADDED WEIGHT to that statement in JOB 34:10 and 12.

barondavil:

Please all should please listen to me.I am not here to make you change your belief nor am here provoke anyone but i am only here to say the truth.It is true that speech is free but the result td cannot bear it.JAMES 1:13 SAYS WHEN UNDER TRIAL LET NO ONE SAY I AM BEING TRIED BY GOD BECAUSE WITH EVIL THINGS GOD CANNOT BE TRIED NOR DOES IF TRY ANYONE.The faithful man JOB ADDED WEIGHT to that statement in JOB 34:10 and 12.

wat exactly do u mean by your above comments?

From those Bible accounts God does not in any way cause the things that adversely affect us be it natural disasters or evil

Matthew 5:45 “He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.” There are many things to be said on this issue but the bottom line is this, good and bad things happen to good and bad people. Is this the will of God no, is this in accordance to the will of God yes. At first this seems like a contradiction but it is not at all and can be explained simply. I believe that C.S. Lewis gave an example of this in his book Meer Christianity when speaking of free will but I believe it will work fine here as well. He said that a mother tells her children to keep their room clean, wanting them to do so. But when she inters their room and sees that it has not been done she is upset. Now it was her desire that they clean the room but it was her will that they do it without her overseeing that allowed it to become dirty. There for, it is possible for something to be both in accordance to the will of God while not being what he desires to happen. The world is in a bad way, good things happen to bad people and bad things to good ones. Satan runs around seemingly doing whatever he wills and where is God? He’s right where He’s always been and that is everywhere. How can this be if he is a loving God for there to be heart ache? Because the world is full of sin and yes Satan is allowed to do a lot of bad things in it. Who brought this sin on us? We did from the first person to the last we all sin. Does this mean that only the sinful die? No we all know that is not the case. Does this mean God is evil? No, that is a contraction in terms at the least and completely wrong all together. Is God a sates? That is about the most ignorant thing one could say, how and why would God worship Satan and thus be a sates?