The discussion below took place on Facebook, between me and Leke Alder. He came up with the piece below on his page.



CONVERSATION WITH UNBELIEF

I share knowledge on faith and God regularly on social media. The knowledge on faith is also accessible on www.myilluminare.com. Recently I posted two quotes about God on social media. Here they are:

“That God knew something would happen doesn’t mean he caused it.”
“God is capable of foreknowledge because he doesn’t dwell in time.”

They elicited a sarcastic retort from an atheist. I decided to engage him and an interesting conversation ensued. Well, that’s the genesis. You’ll have to read to find out the ending. Enjoy!

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On the Omniscience and Goodness Of God:

Atheist: I don’t think that God is omniscient, omnipotent or good. E.g. If God claims to be good, harmful events should not be experienced by his children. After all, they claim he is omniscient and omnipotent. Of what use is a God that knew of harm ahead, has power to stop it, but didn't. This means God isn't a relevant factor in human experience.

LA: Unfortunately, you have a humanist moral conception of God. This is quite distinct from the idea of God in scriptures. It will be quite a stretch to equate foreknowledge with moral responsibility. If we go by that rule, human jurisprudence will go haywire. Can we for example hold you responsible for everything you have foreknowledge of? If you were told by a very reliable economist the Naira (Nigerian currency) would crash against the Dollar, do we hold you responsible for the crash or the consequences?

Atheist: If I were to be bestowed with the supernatural attributes of your God, I would have a better score sheet. My question to you borders on the usefulness of a God that has foreknowledge, but can't prevent harmful events from occurring.

LA: You have an inventive philosophy of what God ought to be. It is kind of funny because the creature is now conceptualising the Creator. You somehow imagine God in a utilitarian dimension - a global police officer dedicated to the prevention of evil. But you ignore the revelation of God about God. And who better to talk about God than God. Clearly, you haven't taken time to imagine what it means to be human. That God you imagine, will never allow you to write the things you've written so far if your concept of God holds. In other words, the "God" you've invented will violate your freewill. Though I must say the invention of a "God" is curious for someone who doesn't believe. Another word for this is idolatry.

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On freewill:

Atheist: If you claim that I have free will and responsible for my experience, of what use then is a God who places himself in the position of being my judge? Of what use is the foreknowledge, when God has never, in human experience, prevented any harmful event from happening?

LA: Unfortunately, that's a humanist moral philosophy of God not constitutional righteousness, which is actually God's operating system. But even at that, man must bear moral responsibility for his creation. The earth, we're told, has been given to the sons of men by God. We're free moral agents. To imagine God will intervene in every evil proposition of man is practically impossible and creates a conceptual issue. We'll no longer be "human," we'll be robots. Believe me, men will complain of excessive intrusion. Imagine God stopping you from typing what you just typed! You'll surely complain of the violation of your freewill.

Atheist: Where then is the interventionist attribute of God? Where then is the realistic goodness of God? What then is the useful value of the omnipotence, omniscience and omniscience of God? Your reply states that as humans, we are responsible for our lives. This then makes God a "nothing factor" in human experience.

LA: Where then is the interventionist attribute of God? Why, Jesus died to save us from Sin! Where then is the realistic goodness of God? For God so loved the world he gave his Son. To quote another writer in the Bible, the goodness of God leads us to repentance. God simplified the salvation process, removed it from the realm of morality to the realm of faith. All you need do is believe!
As per the assertion - God is not a factor in human existence - the Greek philosophers said, "In him we live, in him we move, in him we have our being." Your very existence is God dependent. The problem you have is you see God as a moral street cleaner or some form of Superman or Spiderman who's supposed to prevent evil. In which case, you should get ready for a Tom Cruise Minority Report existence.

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Is the Bible a myth?

Atheist: All of the above are mere abstract thoughts that spin myths and illusionary fabrications. All the creationist propositions are fairy tales. The entire fictional work called bible bears no substantial evidence of God’s existence. So, what's the value of faith in myths? In the very Bible that you quoted are the claims of a superman-God. Why are you excusing God from living up to the claims ascribed to him?

LA: Interesting you call the Bible fabrication. But let me ask you some questions. Was there a historic Pharaoh Thutmose II (1493-1476 BC) at the time of Moses? Was there a historic King Cyrus the Great (576-530 BC)? Was there a historic Chaldean king named Nebuchadnezzar (605-562 BC)? Was there a historic King David who reigned 1010-970 BC? Was there a historic Paul, or Peter or John, or Herod? And was there a historic Jesus? If these people are real, created history and interacted with history, and if archeology substantiates them, how can the Bible be a myth? It's a historical compendium of these same people!

As to creation, you obviously haven't studied the science involved and I don't blame you for some of your views. Many Christians have not too, so they don't put forward the right information. The Big Bang theory which is the prevailing cosmological model validates the Bible narrative. There WAS a beginning, though we can't fully define that beginning. Science can't too. And the ending predicted by Peter in the Bible is actually on all fours with cosmology. There are three likely scenarios, Peter asserted one. How I wish you'd take time to study scriptures rather than regurgitate these assertions of the unlearned. I am engaging you not to argue with you but to let you see things you're not cognisant of. The same God you repudiate from inadequate knowledge loves you more than you'll ever know. Please ask the next question.

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To read or download the rest of the conversation, which includes sections on “Who is God? and “Proof of God’s Existence”, please go to http://myilluminare.com/conversation-with-an-atheist/. Now, don’t leave without sharing. Someone might need this!

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