y do Wahhabi muslims view shia muslims and other muslims as being false. They even call shia's infidels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahabbism#Attitudes_towards_Non-Muslims

Lady 234:

y do Wahhabi muslims view shia muslims and other muslims as being false. They even call shia's infidels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahabbism#Criticism_and_controversy

very interesting topic. ^{grabs chair,popcorn,Qur'an & Holy Bible & earnestly waits for olabowale,Lagosboy,muhsin & all the other sunni militia}

Una no wan answer me?

Allah Tabaraka wa Ta'ala did not mention any sect, hyphenated muslim. Muhammad (AS) the master among mankind did not divide the muslim into any of those, eithrr.

Sunni is a movement observing the Sunnah and Hadith of the Messenger (AS). Wahabbi, is a Sunni group, based on the exegesis of Shaikh AbdulWahab (ra). I saw one of his books, and at introduction, I stopped because I did not see the use. Quran and authentic Sunnah/Hadith are the "ROPE" of mankind to Allah. The prophet is the only conduit to Allah. Muhammad is the only one who could not be questioned among the muslims; "imaam" Hanifah (ra) who is from an earlier generation, many I might add before Iman AbdulWahhab, stated it, based on many verses of the Quran where Allah says that no one among mankind must question Muhammad, if he/she is a believer.

Umar ibn Khattab (RA) very senior to Imam AbdulWahhab was questioned, debated, etc by those who were in his generation (RA, ra). So AbdulWahhab was not the answer to all the questions or issues of Islam. If I disagree with him, I will not necessarily go to hellfire, unlike if I do with my beloved Messenger, leader of mankind (AS). Tis is the reason that those who demeaned him shall go directly to hellfire, barring none!

olabowale:

Umar ibn Khattab (RA) very senior to Imam AbdulWahhab was questioned, debated, etc by those who were in his generation (RA, ra). So AbdulWahhab was not the answer to all the questions or issues of Islam. If I disagree with him, I will not necessarily go to hellfire, unlike if I do with my beloved Messenger, leader of mankind (AS). Tis is the reason that those who demeaned him shall go directly to hellfire, barring none!

Alhaji,isn't this rather presumptuous, sir ?? Hellfire ?? Na you build am?

You don reach there come back before ?

Just as you believe ,others believe.

The reward/or punishment for belief or disbelief. . . please leave to The Maker Himself.

Greetings,

As the Poster just give a link and went, I think I'll do the same and go. lol!

Sunnis vs. Shi'ites
An Outline Of The Differences Between The Sunnis and The Shi'ite in Matters of Faith And Doctrine

Enjoy your reading.

muhsin:

Greetings,

As the Poster just give a link and went, I think I'll do the same and go. lol!

Sunnis vs. Shi'ites
An Outline Of The Differences Between The Sunnis and The Shi'ite in Matters of Faith And Doctrine

Enjoy your reading.

This link and its content was prepared by Sunnis, I will search for and post a link comparing both faiths from the Shia perspective.
Stay tuned.

Gentlemen please let us not start to look into the differences between sunnis and shia rather let us look at what we agree upon. Analysing the differences is nothing but tantamount to pulling us apart. Yes we have big some big differences but we need to remember as well there are 5 branches of shia - islmaila, zaidis, twelvers, even alevi is a branch of shia.

The zaidis are the most close to the sunnis and the twelvers are not far off. The issue of hatred of some shahbas is historical hence, not understanding the fine details of islamic history especially between 15AH - 94AH will never make us understand the reason the shia hold some positions.

Jarzinho my main man abeg let us let the sleeping dog lie here let us discuss other things aside from this sects thingy , i have been away for a few days and insha allah i will go back to the other thread to answer your question later this evening.

@Poster
Wahabis is not a sect of islam but it is just an ideology within the sunni islam, some positions they hold stem from their understanding of some methodologies of islamic jurispudence and in this issue of belief , stems from some understanding of ilm Kalam. Their extreme position on the shia sometimes is more political than religious and that is some of the problems I have personally with the Saudi regime and its santctioned govt wahabi scholars. However we are all muslims, have differences of opinion as no one speaks directly to God but we all agree on the most important aspects of faith. No one can say 100% the other party is wrong , we can only analyse issues based on the evidences we have and conclude by saying "And God knows Best".

@Poster

People may decide to follow any group they decide based on their understanding, passion, influence and other factors. What they will all agree on is they the fact that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is our best guide and his examples we are to follow.

Whoever strays from His rightly guided path for whatsoever reason does so at his/her own peril. If those that differ only sit to ponder and avoid following or acting upon things which can not be authentically linked with the Prophet (PBUH), then whatever name you call yourself or whatever group you may belong to, you are sure to be on the right path. Allah knows best.

@Jairzinho: « #4 on: January 16, 2010, 12:34 PM »

Quote from: olabowale on January 15, 2010, 09:17 PM
Umar ibn Khattab (RA) very senior to Imam AbdulWahhab was questioned, debated, etc by those who were in his generation (RA, ra). So AbdulWahhab was not the answer to all the questions or issues of Islam. If I disagree with him, I will not necessarily go to hellfire, unlike if I do with my beloved Messenger, leader of mankind (AS). Tis is the reason that those who demeaned him shall go directly to hellfire, barring none!

Alhaji,isn't this rather presumptuous, sir ?? Hellfire ?? Na you build am?
You don reach there come back before ?
Just as you believe ,others believe.
The reward/or punishment for belief or disbelief. . . please leave to The Maker Himself.

As for Hellfire, it is already in existence. Quran supports its existence. Hadith supports its existence. Read Surah Najm, as Allah says of Muhammad (AS), the Messenger saw what he saw, and there is no doubt about what he saw. So even though I was not there before and now back, but Muhammad, my leader who I follow, went to heavens, saw Paradise and Hell among other things. Should I now deny what he saw, and accept your admonishment, above which will be tantamous to disbelief! Should I disbelief after I have beliefed knowing the hypocrasy of such an action, inwardly or outwardly, conscious and sure that there is a horrible reward awaiting disbelievers in Hell? I am standing firm on truth. Even when it is something that is against me.

You have said it all, Lagosboy.

Lagosboy:

No one can say 100% the other party is wrong , we can only analyse issues based on the evidences we have and conclude by saying "And God knows Best".

You are 3much. This is very well said & its the summary of my position on religion & faith.

olabowale:

@Jairzinho: « #4 on: January 16, 2010, 12:34 PM » As for Hellfire, it is already in existence. Quran supports its existence. Hadith supports its existence. Read Surah Najm, as Allah says of Muhammad (AS), the Messenger saw what he saw, and there is no doubt about what he saw. So even though I was not there before and now back, but Muhammad, my leader who I follow, went to heavens, saw Paradise and Hell among other things. Should I now deny what he saw, and accept your admonishment, above which will be tantamous to disbelief! Should I disbelief after I have beliefed knowing the hypocrasy of such an action, inwardly or outwardly, conscious and sure that there is a horrible reward awaiting disbelievers in Hell? I am standing firm on truth. Even when it is something that is against me.

The existence of hell/heaven is given based on almost all faiths. My point is summarised by Lagosboy above. . . .you olabowale CANNOT ,I repeat CANNOT determine who goes to hellfire ,or who doesn't,so stick to propagating your faith & leave punishment/repercussions for unbelief to God Almighty.

Unad pls

^^^

Jairzinho:

You are 3much. This is very well said & its the summary of my position on religion & faith.
The existence of hell/heaven is given based on almost all faiths. My point is summarised by Lagosboy above. . . .you olabowale CANNOT ,I repeat CANNOT determine who goes to hellfire ,or who doesn't,so stick to propagating your faith & leave punishment/repercussions for unbelief to God Almighty.

True. But there are obvious signs that can tell you one is bound to hell. For a typical example Shiites who abuse Rasool (pbuh), his wife A'isha (rah), his companions, e.g. Abubakar, (r.a.).

Salaam fellow Muslims.
I think it's high time we put a stop to all these politics we play amongst ourselves (Sunnis and Shi'ite). Or else we will not move forward.
The only Islamic sects i can talk against are those who have being confirmed as unbelievers, like the Ahmaadiyyahs and co.
As for me, i don't believe in having a sect, because the Prophet (A.S) did not encourage us to divide our selves or the ummah. So therefore, i remain a Muslim that strictly abide by the Kitaab and the Sunnah, i.e A Sunni as a follower of Muhammad (S.A.W) as required of all Muslims, and not a Sunni as an Islamic sect.
I strongly condemn the attitudes of some religious scholars (Both the Sunni and Shi'ite scholars) like Shaykh Abdul Wahhab and co who instead of condemning what is wrong in other Islamic sect, wage war against or create enmity between their sects and the other. We also have to realize that as humans, we are not perfect, and there is no how we can do without mistakes, ie (Both the Sunnis and the Shi'ite have various Bida'a they commit.)
Finally, we have to realize also that the Shi'ites also have sub-divisions or sects, like the ISMAAILIYYAH and others, so, It is not everything you here or read from Shi'ites that contradicts your established principles that you generalize to all Shi'ites, as the Sunnis too have the Ahmadiyyahs etc.
And verily this Ummah of yours is One Ummah  and I am your Lord and Cherisher: therefore fear Me (and no other).  (23:52)
Allahu A'lam

You are right mr Lawyer. The reason why i and many muslim follow Ahlus sunnah wal jama'ah or sunni is because of ijma, sharia ruling, Qiyas and the sunnah.

Let me elaborate: in Islam there is necessity of Qiyas, ijma and sharia order, in everyday life, this is done by a group of islamic learned scholars,
who are this learned scholars ? This scholars are the ones that strictly adhere to Quran and sunnah (hadith), anything bidia is shun/dismiss,
how can we know this scholars ? By establishing an umbrella so that we will know the ahlu sunna i.e true followers of the Prophet's doctrine.

So with this Ijma, qiyas and sharia it can be collectively discussed and applied without hinderance from any mushrikin.

muhsin:

True. But there are obvious signs that can tell you one is bound to hell. For a typical example Shiites who abuse Rasool (pbuh), his wife A'isha (rah), his companions, e.g. Abubakar, (r.a.).

Muhsin,have you met a Shia before?

Jairzinho:

Muhsin,have you met a Shia before?

Yes.

muhsin:

Yes.

And he told you Imam Ali was more important than prophet Mohammed?

Abu Zola:

You are right mr Lawyer. The reason why i and many muslim follow Ahlus sunnah wal jama'ah or sunni is because of ijma, sharia ruling, Qiyas and the sunnah.

Let me elaborate: in Islam there is necessity of Qiyas, ijma and sharia order, in everyday life, this is done by a group of islamic learned scholars,
who are this learned scholars ? This scholars are the ones that strictly adhere to Quran and sunnah (hadith), anything bidia is shun/dismiss,
how can we know this scholars ? By establishing an umbrella so that we will know the ahlu sunna i.e true followers of the Prophet's doctrine.

So with this Ijma, qiyas and sharia it can be collectively discussed and applied without hinderance from any mushrikin.

Ahlus sunnah wal jama'a is a very good organisation, but it is not only when you are a member you can be legible to exercise the secondary sources of Islamic law (Ijma', Qiyaas, Istihsaan and others), nor you being a member make you qualified to exercise them.
The only people that has the authority to exercise all these sources of legislations are the "MUJTAHIDUN", which can be a Sunni or a Shite.

Jairzinho:

And he told you Imam Ali was more important than prophet Mohammed?

Ahah, don't play that on me, Jairzinho.

One don't have to tell you everything about him/her to know who is he/her; action speaks lots more than words, as one saying goes.

For a typical example: Shiites extol Sayyadi Ali and Nana Fadima (radiyAllahu anhum), and in the course put them above every other created human being. More-over, don't forget their taqiyya--deceit and lies--which hide their real selves and genuine ideology.

Go read about them; and if possible interact with one of them. You'll come back and tell me.

I beg to disagree with that,

talking of my province, A shiite or bidia party cannot be part of the Qiyas, ijma sitting ?
But why ? It is because their teaching is contrary to sunnah. If you get a shiite, a shia disbelieve in the hadith of bukhari, muslim and Abu dawud.
Secondly- The shiite believe that the 3 caliph abubakar, umar and uthman are accursed.
The Quran of the shiite have addition and subtraction from the genuine Quran e.g where Allah clears Aisha charges and more.

On the other bidia party, lets take tijaniya as an example, they ve solatul fati which is believe to be greater than umra and hajj, they ve a guideline on new innovation, for more get jawahirul ma'ani.

So how can you sit with bidia party in the council of elders while implementing Qiyas and Ijma. Is not possible,

@muhsin, my post is directed to princeLaw so that you don't get confused,

muhsin:

Ahah, don't play that on me, Jairzinho.

One don't have to tell you everything about him/her to know who is he/her; action speaks lots more than words, as one saying goes.

For a typical example: Shiites extol Sayyadi Ali and Nana Fadima (radiyAllahu anhum), and in the course put them above every other created human being. More-over, don't forget their taqiyya--deceit and lies--which hide their real selves and genuine ideology.

Go read about them; and if possible interact with one of them. You'll come back and tell me.

i live with them my friend. . . & I have found out many assumption are just that assumptions. . .add that to the fact that we all have things we do not completely understand/agree with our faith. So i say focus on the fundamentals.

We have something similar in christianity. Non-catholics(like me) have been brought up believing catholics worship Mary (mother of Jesus) and regard her more than Jesus Himself. In addition they have some traditions which aren't directly written in the Bible.

So if you ask a typical non-catholic,he'll tell you catholics aren't 'Christians'. I later found this to be false,because. . . people are born into certain beliefs and as they grow older they adopt some & leave some,so putting a blanket on everyone is wrong and presumptuous.

Shias are muslims only differ with Sunni on some aspects of theology/history of Islam ,but the fundamentals are the same.

Jairzinho:

i live with them my friend. . . & I have found out many assumption are just that assumptions. . .add that to the fact that we all have things we do not completely understand/agree with our faith. So i say focus on the fundamentals.

We have something similar in christianity. Non-catholics(like me) have been brought up believing catholics worship Mary (mother of Jesus) and regard her more than Jesus Himself. In addition they have some traditions which aren't directly written in the Bible.

So if you ask a typical non-catholic,he'll tell you catholics aren't 'Christians'. I later found this to be false,because. . . people are born into certain beliefs and as they grow older they adopt some & leave some,so putting a blanket on everyone is wrong and presumptuous.

Shias are muslims only differ with Sunni on some aspects of theology/history of Islam ,but the fundamentals are the same.

It had never occured to me you are NOT a Muslim! Hmm: I really have been wasting my valued time!

Man, whatsoever I get to tell you, I doubt if you'll understand it. This is an insiders' issue while you are an outsider. Get that? Continue to live with them the way you do; ain't trying to change your view of them.

muhsin:

It had never occured to me you are NOT a Muslim! Hmm: I really have been wasting my valued time!

Man, whatsoever I get to tell you, I doubt if you'll understand it. This is an insiders' issue while you are an outsider. Get that? Continue to live with them the way you do; ain't trying to change your view of them.

,well now you know belief is all about perception hahahaha !

Your comments are too dismissive,what if Im trying to learn more about Islam with a view to taking a decision?

You should address issues not personalities my friend (Imagine your comments "this is an insider issue ,while you an outsider " ). . . knowledge is the foundation of Islam . . .not grandstanding

Actually I get little time to talk at length. But you really need to get well informed about such an intricate issues. Let me tell ya even many Muslims understand this Sunni-Shiite issues very well. Considering this how come a non-Muslim fathom things? Hardly.

muhsin:

Actually I get little time to talk at length. But you really need to get well informed about such an intricate issues. Let me tell ya even many Muslims understand this Sunni-Shiite issues very well. Considering this how come a non-Muslim fathom things? Hardly.

There are some words you must avoid . . . .'I don't know'. . .'I don't have the time'. . . .'Its not possible'.

Learn,read and above all fear God.

Jairzinho:

There are some words you must avoid . . . .'I don't know'. . .'I don't have the time'. . . .'Its not possible'.

Learn,read and above all fear God.

LOL

Then read this: Fundamental Shi’ite Beliefs by Abdullah b. Muhammad as-Salafi

Wahhabi sunni muslims say shias and certain other non-Wahhabi Muslims are infidels.
Quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi#Destruction_of_Islam.27s_early_historical_sites
Destruction of Islam's early historical sites
Main article: Destruction of sites associated with early Islam
The Wahhabi teachings strongly disapprove of veneration of the historical sites associated with early Islam, on the grounds that only God should be worshipped and that veneration of sites associated with mortals leads to idolatry. Consequently, a significant number of buildings associated with early Islam, historic mosques, mausoleums and other artifacts have been destroyed in Saudi Arabia by the Wahhabi followers from early 1800s through the present day. This practice has proved controversial and has received considerable criticism from the Sunni and Shia Muslims and in the non-Muslim world

Quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahabbism#Attitudes_towards_Non-Muslims
Attitudes towards Non-Muslims
A study by the NGO Freedom House found Wahhabi publications in a number of mosques in the United States preaching that Muslims should not only "always oppose" infidels "in every way", but "hate them for their religion ,  for Allah's sake", that democracy "is responsible for all the horrible wars of the 20th century", and that Shia and certain other non-Wahhabi Muslims were INFIDELS

Quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi
Because they gave themselves the ultimate right to declare people Kuffar (plural of Kafir or infidels), Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab's followers led an army which occupied Ta’if and Mecca (Makkah). This was followed by massacres of unarmed Muslims (including men, women, and children) and the destruction of many graves and holy sites. Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab also considered destroying the house where the Prophet Muhammad was born and destroyed Sufi shrines and sacred tombs in Mecca and Medina, including the grave of Prophet Muhammad and his companions, out of fear that it might be worshipped.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi

olabowale:

Allah Tabaraka wa Ta'ala did not mention any sect, hyphenated muslim. Muhammad (AS) the master among mankind did not divide the muslim into any of those, eithrr.

Sunni is a movement observing the Sunnah and Hadith of the Messenger (AS). Wahabbi, is a Sunni group, based on the exegesis of Shaikh AbdulWahab (ra). I saw one of his books, and at introduction, I stopped because I did not see the use. Quran and authentic Sunnah/Hadith are the "ROPE" of mankind to Allah. The prophet is the only conduit to Allah. Muhammad is the only one who could not be questioned among the muslims; "imaam" Hanifah (ra) who is from an earlier generation, many I might add before Iman AbdulWahhab, stated it, based on many verses of the Quran where Allah says that no one among mankind must question Muhammad, if he/she is a believer.

Umar ibn Khattab (RA) very senior to Imam AbdulWahhab was questioned, debated, etc by those who were in his generation (RA, ra). So AbdulWahhab was not the answer to all the questions or issues of Islam. If I disagree with him, I will not necessarily go to hellfire, unlike if I do with my beloved Messenger, leader of mankind (AS). Tis is the reason that those who demeaned him shall go directly to hellfire, barring none!

if you dont know the reason,then own up that you dont,dont come here and start quoting some hadiths.!!
@poster
before i put my own views foward it is important to note that on one hand,the issue of who the rightful sucessor should be in the islamic world is one important reason why there is deep divisions but i wont go into that but i will gladly expound on it if you open another thread,however on this topic
the reason is because sheik al wahhabi who actually formed the wahhabi movement believes that the shia and other islamic sects indulge in what he considered "un-islamic" and un holy practises, some of the practises which he frowned at were the tomb worship of mohammad and other saints,bowing down to images e.t.c
as far as the founder of the wahhabi islamic sect was concerned,taqlid( which translates as the blind imitation of early scholars and their edicts) is to be rejected with only the quran and the sunna as the only legal basis for a muslim meaning hadiths and other sources are null and void.

unlike other sects the wahhabis call for independent reasoning and education amongst the muslims,these two points especially the first is why they totally disagree with other islamic sects who they see as still worshipping idols and bowing down and worshipping dead people