https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptt96NVk_Vs

Jesus in Islam seems to be a character that doesn't fit in. He has a virgin birth yet God is not his father. The idea of the virgin birth was copied from Christianity whereas it wasn't in the oldest gospel. He has miracles speaking as a baby and making clay birds to life that seem to be directly taken from the infancy gospel of thomas which is considered an unreliable story. The Quran claims there is 1 injeel or gospel but this doesnt match what we know about Christianity.

Muslims believe that Islam sets the record straight and corrects the misconceptions about Jesus and all the other prophets, but we have to ask, what is the evidence for this?

Allah simply decided out of millions of babies born every year that he would make one of them without a father.
The Virgin Birth was a later Christian idea
The idea of Jesus having a virgin birth – This story does not exist in the oldest Gospel Mark, but actually appears later on in the gospel of Matthew and Luke. When we look at the 4 gospels in order from oldest (Mark) to newest, we see how Jesus goes from barely a hint of being God in Mark to “In the beginning Jesus was God” in John which is the last gospel. If it was clear that Jesus had a virgin birth, why didnt Mark mention it? Why was it not mentioned until Matthew, 70 years after the supposed event.

This idea of virgin birth has been around in antiquity, Horus in ancient Egypt being born to the virgin Isis and many other stories. This is how religions come about, they copy each other.

Muhammad took an idea that was invented to promote Jesus being God (having a virgin birth) and included it in the Quran.

Jesus The Messiah
This point goes against both Christianity and Islam. The Messiah is supposed to be a King, to bring peace to the world, gather the Jewish people from their exile to the land of Israel and rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem

Jesus was crucified or appeared to be crucified
Many of these things used to confuse me in Islam. What does it mean that Jesus is the “messiah” for example? the Jews (of which Jesus was one) were waiting for a messiah, a king, to rule over them and establish a just kingdom of God. According to history. Jesus supposedly was the messiah, and was killed for this claim. He was killed like a common criminal. It’s a failed prophecy. However, according to Islam, Allah tricked the people into thinking he was crucified, thus creating the biggest religion of false worship on the planet.

The idea of a messiah being killed makes no sense because he was supposed to be the ruler. This was troubling to the followers of Jesus who decided to change their dogma to claim that he was supposed to be crucified. Most of these points are explained well by Bart Ehrman in “How Jesus became God” (long video, 3 parts, but worth watching).

The Injeel or Gospel of Jesus
Jesus is described in the Quran as having been sent with a revealed book

Well, nowhere to be found. No trace of it. If God sent Jesus with a revelation, either a book or an oral recitation like the Quran, its totally gone. It’s hard to believe such a revelation existed and then suddenly and mysteriously disappeared. Much less important documents have survived such as the infancy gospel of Thomas, the Dead Sea scrolls and others, yet the entire Injeel of Jesus was completely lost? Strange…
So if Jesus did not come with a revealed book called “the gospel”, what exactly is the gospel? Well there’s not one, but four gospels. The four gospels are considered the inspired word of God written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Little is known about these authors but they were Greek speaking Christians who 40-100 years after the death of Jesus wrote these books. Christians believe these men were inspired by the Holy Spirit to speak on behalf of God, not that they received verbatim revelation from God (like the Quran claims to be). Is it possible Muhammad mistakenly understood the Christian idea of “injeel” and included it in the Quran?

The Infancy Gospel stories
Interestingly, certain doubtful stories that were available at the time ended up in the Quran.
What other stories did he include in the Quran that we found?

The story of Jesus making clay birds and making them come alive come from the Infancy Gospel of Thomas which was written mid- to late-2nd century which was written to show more miracles of Jesus.

The story of Jesus speaking as an infant, come from the Syriac Infancy Gospel, which was written 5th-6th century and was based on the earlier Infancy Gospel of Thomas.

Most Christians reject this story as a complete forgery. Interestingly this document was originally written in Syriac (a language similar to Arabic) and available at Muhammad’s time in the 6th century.

In conclusion Muhammad took the stories of Jesus that were available to him and fit them into the Quran in order to make his message appeal to Christians.

Bull shit. Focus on perfection. Focus on attaining inner peace before criticizing what existed before your inception... #word

op your point

seunlly:
op your point

That Islam copied the tale of Jesus Christ using later fabricated gospels, made hundreds of years after the gospels of the new testament, that had circulated around the Arabian peninsula around the time of Muhammad, and Muhammad included these stories into the Quran, despite the fact that the story of Jesus clashes with the nature of god and the narrative of the Quran.

I am here o.

Op, your efforts at generating problems is noted.

Since you opened this account, that is what you have been doing.

Tomorrow, if your effort is blessed with problem/crisis, you will start singing a song about how Christians are always victims.

Certainly, this is how most of you started and end up doing same offline and when properly served, you start shouting blue murder.

It ain't your fault, it is the fault of nairaland management that allows problem-spinning usernames like this to still be registered on the platform.

Cc

RoyalRoy, seun.

LionDeLeo:
Op, your efforts at generating problems is noted.

Since you opened this account, that is what you have been doing.

You mean making topics to spark debate on religious views? Isn't that partially the point of the religious section?

Are we not allowed to make posts criticising the Quran? I saw a bunch of muslims in an earlier thread claiming that the Jesus narrative was more rational in the Quran than in the Bible - are they generating problems? (In fact, those posts are what made me post this).

I think you seem less engaged in the topic and criticism brought up in this thread, and more engaged in attacking me personally for what you see as an afront to your religion. Not very fair and not very open-minded.

LionDeLeo:
Tomorrow, if your effort is blessed with problem/crisis, you will start singing a song about how Christians are always victims.

I am not a Christian. I am not even religious. Do not think that because I am criticising the origins of the Jesus narrative in Islam that I am attempting to proselytise and bring people to Christianity (The same cannot be said of many muslims who critique the Bible, however).

LionDeLeo:
Certainly, this is how most of you started and end up doing same offline and when properly served, you start shouting blue murder.

I have no idea what you're talking about here.

LionDeLeo:
It ain't your fault, it is the fault of nairaland management that allows problem-spinning usernames like this to still be registered on the platform.

Cc

RoyalRoy, seun.

Yes, it's the awesome Nairaland management who let people speak their minds openly on this forum instead of being bound and gagged by religious fundamentalists. And hooray for that!

If you don't have anything to say directly regarding the topic, please don't bother posting.

@ OP please provide more references. Your points are quite interesting and I am interested.

Which source to believe:, the many contradictions in the many books written decades after the death of Jesus (AS) in so many outdated languages. Or the Qur'an that has been kept as original as possible in a single language.
'

I've always wondered how in the bible nobody has knowledge of Jesus' childhood but speak of him as a grown man. So I'm interested in any gospel that does such.

The greatest proof for the Qur'an is the Muhammad (SAW) could not read or write. He would get revelations and he would recite to the people till they knew it. The learned from the early Muslims would later write it down.

They say God has a son. God is above all that they allude to Him. All He says is "Be" and anything He wants created exists.- excerpt from Qur'an.

CyrusTheGreat

The story of Jesus was copied from other god's mythology. Browse Horus vs Jesus. It is all about copying, pasting and modification. None is real

onyenze123:
CyrusTheGreat

The story of Jesus was copied from other god's mythology. Browse Horus vs Jesus. It is all about copying, pasting and modification. None is real

so how come there are devout egytian christians and muslims despite evidence of CLEAR "pliagarism" you claim its either you know more about egytian gods and culture than they do or the egyptians just love deceiving themselves or you have chosen to believe in the lies of a confused lunatic...
As per the Gospel of Mark, it deals only with the later life and Ministry of Jesus Christ, and starts off by declaring Jesus Christ as "the Son of God", not the "Son of Joseph"

ztapi:

so how come there are devout egytian christians and muslims despite evidence of CLEAR "pliagarism" you claim its either you know more about egytian gods and culture than they do or the egyptians just love deceiving themselves or you have chosen to believe in the lies of a confused lunatic...

Please actually read a book on Egyptian culture and history, because you have no idea what you are talking about.

Egyptian gods and ancient Egyptian culture have not been practiced in Egypt for a very long time. In fact some islamists have actually attacked people for practicing traditional Egyptian traditions and holidays because they think that they are "pagan" or "christian".

Egypt was invaded and forcibly arabised/islamified. That's why everyone there speaks Arabic even though Coptic is the original native language of Egypt, descended from the Egyptian languages from the time of the Pharaohs. A lot of Egyptians do not know much beyond pop culture facts about their country's ancient history. They most certainly would not know of any theories connecting ancient Egyptian mythology with Christian beliefs on Jesus.

CyrusTheGreat:


Please actually read a book on Egyptian culture and history, because you have no idea what you are talking about.

Egyptian gods and ancient Egyptian culture have not been practiced in Egypt for a very long time. In fact some islamists have actually attacked people for practicing traditional Egyptian traditions and holidays because they think that they are "pagan" or "christian".

Egypt was invaded and forcibly arabised/islamified. That's why everyone there speaks Arabic even though Coptic is the original native language of Egypt, descended from the Egyptian languages from the time of the Pharaohs. A lot of Egyptians do not know much beyond pop culture facts about their country's ancient history. They most certainly would not know of any theories connecting ancient Egyptian mythology with Christian beliefs on Jesus.

from what i read on wikipedia and other sites there isnt much similarities besides the "death and ressurection" after 3days, atleast the wikipedia editors do some research
my point is if its all based on egyptian myth then we should be hearing more about it from egyptians themselves, u cant say they are all ignorant

ztapi:

so how come there are devout egytian christians and muslims despite evidence of CLEAR "pliagarism" you claim its either you know more about egytian gods and culture than they do or the egyptians just love deceiving themselves or you have chosen to believe in the lies of a confused lunatic...
As per the Gospel of Mark, it deals only with the later life and Ministry of Jesus Christ, and starts off by declaring Jesus Christ as "the Son of God", not the "Son of Joseph"

"so how come there are devout egytian christians and muslims despite evidence of CLEAR "pliagarism" you claim"

it is a pity you don't even know how your religion Christianity came to be. Lemme summarize it for you.

During Emperor Constantine reign, the roman empire covered large part of Europe and middle east. The empire was filled with different traditional religion including the Egyptian one until the emperor sanctioned Christianity as the legitimate religion after paganizing it. Who are you not to obey the emperor's order? So countries like Egypt, Turkey became a full christian state.

When ottoman empire rose, the countries above fell to Islam. you can Google and read more

onyenze123:


"so how come there are devout egytian christians and muslims despite evidence of CLEAR "pliagarism" you claim"

it is a pity you don't even know how your religion Christianity came to be. Lemme summarize it for you.

During Emperor Constantine reign, the roman empire covered large part of Europe and middle east. The empire was filled with different traditional religion including the Egyptian one until the emperor sanctioned Christianity as the legitimate religion after paganizing it. Who are you not to obey the emperor's order? So countries like Egypt, Turkey became a full christian state.

When ottoman empire rose, the countries above fell to Islam. you can Google and read more

oga know it all there were egyptian christians centuries before constatine was born...

ztapi:

oga know it all there were egyptian christians centuries before constatine was born...

we are talking about majority here. Few Egyptian population accepted Christianity but Constantine made it the nation's religion

CyrusTheGreat:


That Islam copied the tale of Jesus Christ using later fabricated gospels, made hundreds of years after the gospels of the new testament, that had circulated around the Arabian peninsula around the time of Muhammad, and Muhammad included these stories into the Quran, despite the fact that the story of Jesus clashes with the nature of god and the narrative of the Quran.

OP just a joke...

so you mean a plagiarized content and shambled Quran will deliver such perfectness...? wait watch this video before you kill yourself


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkHU48Yuu-0&feature=youtu.be

onyenze123:


we are talking about majority here. Few Egyptian population accepted Christianity but Constantine made it the nation's religion

...not about majority, u say the "life of Christ is a fairytale that never happened, a copy of egyptian religion", and my point is if that is the case then how come egyptians from whom they copied abandoned their own belief to follow after this new copied story?

lfleak:
OP just a joke...

so you mean a plagiarized content and shambled Quran will deliver such perfectness...? wait watch this video before you kill yourself


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkHU48Yuu-0&feature=youtu.be

Any schitzophrenic can make wild connections where there are none. This post does nothing to criticise the points raised in the opening post about the unfitting place of the Jesus narrative in the Quran.

onyenze123:


we are talking about majority here. Few Egyptian population accepted Christianity but Constantine made it the nation's religion

Not true. Constantine did not make Christianity the state religion. He simply allowed religious freedom for Christians, who were heavily oppressed by previous Roman emperors. And also Christianity was actually stronger in Egypt than in Constantinople during the days of Constantine. For example monasticism has its origins in the deserts of Egypt.

Papist:

Not true. Constantine did not make Christianity the state religion. He simply allowed religious freedom for Christians, who were heavily oppressed by previous Roman emperors. And also Christianity was actually stronger in Egypt than in Constantinople during the days of Constantine. For example monasticism has its origins in the deserts of Egypt.

*.Constantine was a lifelong pagan who was baptized against his will on his deathbed.

*.Constantine made Christianity the official Roman religion solely for political gain.

*.Christianity is a hybrid religion, the result of Constantine's fusing the pagan cult of Sol Invictus with Christianity.

*.This blending can be seen in Constantine's changing the Christian day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

*.Under Constantine's influence, the Council of Nicea, by a small majority, turned a mortal prophet into the divine Son of God.

*.Constantine ordered the making of the Bible that would reinforce the Council's decision to make Jesus the divine Son of God, and at the same time ordered the destruction of opposing documents.

source:http://www.antiochian.org/constantine-great-roman-emperor-christian-saint-historys-turning-point

For further info, Google is your friend

onyenze123:


*.Constantine was a lifelong pagan who was baptized against his will on his deathbed.

*.Constantine made Christianity the official Roman religion solely for political gain.

*.Christianity is a hybrid religion, the result of Constantine's fusing the pagan cult of Sol Invictus with Christianity.

*.This blending can be seen in Constantine's changing the Christian day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

*.Under Constantine's influence, the Council of Nicea, by a small majority, turned a mortal prophet into the divine Son of God.

*.Constantine ordered the making of the Bible that would reinforce the Council's decision to make Jesus the divine Son of God, and at the same time ordered the destruction of opposing documents.

source:http://www.antiochian.org/constantine-great-roman-emperor-christian-saint-historys-turning-point

For further info, Google is your friend

I'm not arguing theology with you. I'm simply arguing Constantine's influence on Christianity. And no he did not make Christianity the official religion of his empire.

Papist:

I'm not arguing theology with you. I'm simply arguing Constantine's influence on Christianity. And no he did not make Christianity the official religion of his empire.

So you cannot read plain English?

Don't mention me again please. I don't have time for illogical argument

Who is this new mad dog on the loose?

Origin:
@ OP please provide more references. Your points are quite interesting and I am interested.

Which source to believe:, the many contradictions in the many books written decades after the death of Jesus (AS) in so many outdated languages. Or the Qur'an that has been kept as original as possible in a single language.
'

I've always wondered how in the bible nobody has knowledge of Jesus' childhood but speak of him as a grown man. So I'm interested in any gospel that does such.

The greatest proof for the Qur'an is the Muhammad (SAW) could not read or write. He would get revelations and he would recite to the people till they knew it. The learned from the early Muslims would later write it down.

They say God has a son. God is above all that they allude to Him. All He says is "Be" and anything He wants created exists.- excerpt from Qur'an.

Your gullibility knows no bound. So, you choose to belief the Quran that was written 600yrs after the Bible was compiled over the same Bible? do you know how many centuries that is? The Bible was written by eye witnesses that existed when Yahshua the Messiah was on earth, unlike the Quran that was written 7 centuries after and by people whose greatest grandfathers were not even worthy to be called sperms.

Your talk of Mohammad not bring able to read and write is just one big lie. How come khadija his boss turned wife hired him to supervise her business? I mean, who hires am illiterate?

You claim the Bible has no knowledge of Yahshua's childhood. How dumb you sound. The same Bible spoke of his virgin birth, how he was moved to Egypt to avoid Herod's wrath, how he read scrolls and answered questions in the midst of rabbis etc.

God has a son called Yahshua who a"so testified to that. It you will never believe cos you chose to belief the lies of the Quran. that was concocted 600yrs after Jesus said he is the son of God. The Quran only came to tell a lie to deny such. But what it successfully did is to declare itself and Islam as the Antichrist.


1 John 2:22

And who is a liar? Anyone who says that Jesus is not the Christ. Anyone who denies the Father and the Son is an Antichrist.