well l have always wished to be a programmer. I have tried vb6, python, c, c#, and have dumped all. but now that I am out of employment and broke, with mouths to feed I have decided front end web design is the way to go. with JavaScript-jquery-photoshop/illustrator and HTML-css, all to learn. Afterwards learn php, mysql, nodes.js etc, along with frameworks and libraries like angular.js, lavarel, bootstrap and many more never ending stuffs.

To be honest the learning curve is steep and most Nigerians close to my situation will go for short cuts. you just need to start making some money as quick as possible and hence quality is compromised.

^^^You can still do it, just keep encourage yourself that if others can do it - so can you!

dhtml18:
^^^You can still do it, just keep encourage yourself that if others can do it - so can you!

progamming isn't for everybody you know

stonemasonn:
well l have always wished to be a programmer. I have tried vb6, python, c, c#, and have dumped all. but now that I am out of employment and broke, with mouths to feed I have decided front end web design is the way to go. with JavaScript-jquery-photoshop/illustrator and HTML-css, all to learn. Afterwards learn php, mysql, nodes.js etc, along with frameworks and libraries like angular.js, lavarel, bootstrap and many more never ending stuffs.

To be honest the learning curve is steep and most Nigerians close to my situation will go for short cuts. you just need to start making some money as quick as possible and hence quality is compromised.

I am a self taught developer, but you can still do it if you realy want to

onedayatime:


progamming isn't for everybody you know

O yeah, but that said, there are some people that are cut for it but dont really get it because they lack the patience to properly learn.

Trust me, all you guys have mentioned isn't even a major problem.

The real problem is collaboration.

If Nigerian developers contribute in creating major open source softwares with a reasonable amount of success, then folks from any part of the world will gain trust and know where to look for quality developers in Nigeria. Recruitment companies like Andela are trying their best...but it still seems a large number of Nigerian developers are subconsciously repulsive to growth.

Look at Firefox, for example, an open source project by The Mozilla Foundation, anybody willing to work with them won't panic or think twice because of their record success in their open source software.

What of Android by Google, Inc...that's too much of a perfect example.
Android is free and open, but you have to pay to put your app on the play store. Which android device comes without Google apps? How in the world do you expect Google to fail?

Most Nigerian developers have an obsession for money, if it's not making money then it's not making sense. It may not be making money but it will pave the way through fame which will end up making you rich. Call a Nigerian developer and tell him to contribute on your open source project, and he tells you "i need money bro, I'm broke"... all it takes is time (time is money).

Friendosphere failed because it wasn't open sourced and the sole developer didn't have enough funds to keep up with monthly costs even after gaining a massive acceptance after it's first month of launching. (>1,000 users).

I'm working on a small but powerful open source php framework that will power my new open source projects and hope fellow elite Nigerian developers will contribute in any way possible.
It is small in the sense of footprint and powerful in the sense of render time and support for implementing features such as building RESTful APIs and much more.

I urge you all to forget NEPA, get a generator with the money from one of your projects and contribute to the success of something that will take you to the next level while working on side paid projects.

Remember, it is better to be part of a group of people that built a successful software than to build a copyrighted software that fails.

For clients to land you a job, they will usually require that you provide links to your developments, when they see a link to..., let's say JQuery, for instance... how the heck will they ignore your C.V? They will instead be thinking of how to negotiate your salary.

On this I agree with DanielTheGeek - both of us understand this problem very well. As at the end of last year, my income started going down.
The law of diminishing returns started setting in (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns)
And so starting from January this year, I started collaborating with other developers and my income started climbing up again. But what my eyes saw before I could find HONEST people to collaborate with ehn, that is a story for another thread entirely (maybe some day).

As my team is gradually expanding, so is my confidence, I am already working on a project that will change the lives of people with a huge team (sadly most of the core team members other than me are outside Nigeria).

And for those of you that are wondering - yes - Nairaland Rebranded will soon come out - I have been able to register Nairaland Network Limited with Coorporate affairs and it has been approved and fully processed - that is to tell you that I mean business (and I have been able to get financiers and stake-holders) - this is also another thing that kills startups and why projects fail in Nigeria - if you dont have enough money (or sponsors) to see your project through.

Questions that many people ask programmers - shebi you can code, oya do your own Facebook - even if you have the technical know-how to do your own Facebook, without money, your plan is DEAD-ON-ARRIVAL. Even if you are able to pay a developer to develop the platform for you, but you cannot pay for server - imagine your traffic hits the sky and you need a huge server and no get money - end of dream!

Just here to learn.

Interesting.

dhtml18:

O yeah, but that said, there are some people that are cut for it but dont really get it because they lack the patience to properly learn.

one of the reason programming isn't for everyone

kanayoNickel:
sometimes, the problem is lack of collabos.

Most programmers like their 3D/CGI peers feel like Bronze Gods.

They never belive in working together, forming hubs, you know, that sort of thing.

they become too encased in the program they learnt and feel an intense,almost suffocating need, to guard their skill.

They forget that collaborating more breeds innovation and sharpens intelligence. Nigerian programmers should adopt the MIT model

That's so true... and I was guilty... But collaboration really really helps when it comes to perfection. ie creating Apps that looks or feel perfect

so educative.... keep em coming guys thanks

Overworking of staff by management. Some organisations like cutting cost to the extent of tasking one man with the job of 6, 7 or 8 men in foreign organisation. Imagine a guy with BSC Comp Engr and a CCNA or A+ or even OCJP to support it being tasked with web design, development(graphics and photo editing inclusive) & admin in addition to normal PC repairs and maintenance, database admin, network admin, and occassional assistance of ignorant staff with MS Word, Powerpoint & Excel and Phone configuration.
Now Imagine such an IT person being tasked with Mobile app development or Web Application alone, he is more likely to perform.
Even in a programming based consultancy co. alone, there are UX, backend, animation and other roles.

I think the problem lies with
1. not trusting our fellows enough... and Big projects can't be achieved in isolation.
2. Funds n low budget.. We have fewer investors in the IT sector that trust to get returns on a home made product.
3. Developer's community engagement isn't pronounced and I think that can be improved as someone as said earlier " open source codes for. programs" can improve engagement thus increasing the quality of developers in the community. Because open source software help set a standard that is usually raised with time depending on developers work. Hence spot lighting More quality developers to work with and less failure
.
4. Light(NEPA).. this affects a lot of guys, young guys (like me too) in the industry.. I had to go and make a rapport with a surebet company shop(not the small shop outlets I mean one of those regional offices) to allow me come daily to use their electric power. Otherwise it would have been difficult to get a steady power.. I heard about a guy who said he writes his codes on paper and wait till NEPA brings light to test and run it..it's crazy!!. Not good enough.

4. Going to programming " just" for the money. I think a problem solving mind should be the main kind of mind a developer should have. This kind of mind is needed when odds against the success of a project is high. At this point someone with gaze upon money only would instantly loose interest... And every major breakthrough had a tough time too.

5. On team building for a project : not knowing who should and who shouldn't be on a team for a start up


dhtml18.. Baba, I hail.. I respect your comments nd the way you've handled threads, you are such an inspiration .. I await with an expectant mind the delivery of Africode Net. Lim. I hope I get to see you in person some day. You're indeed a boss.. You are a wave of influence in this programming section.

Stonemasonn, thanks for the thread.

^^^You are welcome bro, the thing no easy - but we must-to-cope with all the constraints.

dhtml18:
^^^You are welcome bro, the thing no easy - but we must-to-cope with all the constraints.

you forgot to add the e-haters as well

seun comes to mind.

SirAbdulthe1st:

you forgot to add the e-haters as well

seun comes to mind.

I couldnt stop with this your reply.

Nigeria is just coming up.

dhtml18:
On this I agree with DanielTheGeek - both of us understand this problem very well. As at the end of last year, my income started going down.
The law of diminishing returns started setting in (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diminishing_returns)
And so starting from January this year, I started collaborating with other developers and my income started climbing up again. But what my eyes saw before I could find HONEST people to collaborate with ehn, that is a story for another thread entirely (maybe some day).

As my team is gradually expanding, so is my confidence, I am already working on a project that will change the lives of people with a huge team (sadly most of the core team members other than me are outside Nigeria).

And for those of you that are wondering - yes - Nairaland Rebranded will soon come out - I have been able to register Nairaland Network Limited with Coorporate affairs and it has been approved and fully processed - that is to tell you that I mean business (and I have been able to get financiers and stake-holders) - this is also another thing that kills startups and why projects fail in Nigeria - if you dont have enough money (or sponsors) to see your project through.

Questions that many people ask programmers - shebi you can code, oya do your own Facebook - even if you have the technical know-how to do your own Facebook, without money, your plan is DEAD-ON-ARRIVAL. Even if you are able to pay a developer to develop the platform for you, but you cannot pay for server - imagine your traffic hits the sky and you need a huge server and no get money - end of dream!

Please what did your eyes saw before finding developers, or do you mean fnding job.

I take it as an error, you mean to say before gettting more work.

Which one is difficult, getting proficient developers or getting developer work (freelancing right?)

And the developers, do you search outside the country or your scope is to only Nigeria (Lagos, probably)

And the jobs, are your jobs for foreign clients or just nigerian developer jobs?

Please don't mind me, just curious

Or if you can, create a thread on the difficulty of outsourcing developer jobs in Eko Nigeria (this board is damn boring this days, thanks to seun's bad-belle)

DanielTheGeek:
Trust me, all you guys have mentioned isn't even a major problem.

The real problem is collaboration.

If Nigerian developers contribute in creating major open source softwares with a reasonable amount of success, then folks from any part of the world will gain trust and know where to look for quality developers in Nigeria. Recruitment companies like Andela are trying their best...but it still seems a large number of Nigerian developers are subconsciously repulsive to growth.

Look at Firefox, for example, an open source project by The Mozilla Foundation, anybody willing to work with them won't panic or think twice because of their record success in their open source software.

What of Android by Google, Inc...that's too much of a perfect example.
Android is free and open, but you have to pay to put your app on the play store. Which android device comes without Google apps? How in the world do you expect Google to fail?

Most Nigerian developers have an obsession for money, if it's not making money then it's not making sense. It may not be making money but it will pave the way through fame which will end up making you rich. Call a Nigerian developer and tell him to contribute on your open source project, and he tells you "i need money bro, I'm broke"... all it takes is time (time is money).

Friendosphere failed because it wasn't open sourced and the sole developer didn't have enough funds to keep up with monthly costs even after gaining a massive acceptance after it's first month of launching. (>1,000 users).

I'm working on a small but powerful open source php framework that will power my new open source projects and hope fellow elite Nigerian developers will contribute in any way possible.
It is small in the sense of footprint and powerful in the sense of render time and support for implementing features such as building RESTful APIs and much more.

I urge you all to forget NEPA, get a generator with the money from one of your projects and contribute to the success of something that will take you to the next level while working on side paid projects.

Remember, it is better to be part of a group of people that built a successful software than to build a copyrighted software that fails.

For clients to land you a job, they will usually require that you provide links to your developments, when they see a link to..., let's say JQuery, for instance... how the heck will they ignore your C.V? They will instead be thinking of how to negotiate your salary.

100% true but you forgot to add something about TRUST issues

Afam4eva:
Hmm, great topic...

Like someone said, since we're in Nigeria, issues like electricity should no longer hinder us because if you intend to create a software, you should have in mind that there won't be power always, so you have to provide an alternative source of power.

I think one of the reasons why software/apps/etc fail is that they're just not good enough and that's because of funding issues and lack of due diligence and proper research.

Power issue isn't that easy to navigate. I have been thinking of 12-cells battery to support my laptop for 6-8hrs after a full charge but as I type this I haven't seen PHCN supply for the past 9 days.

SirAbdulthe1st:


Please what did your eyes saw before finding developers, or do you mean fnding job.

I take it as an error, you mean to say before gettting more work.

Which one is difficult, getting proficient developers or getting developer work (freelancing right?)

And the developers, do you search outside the country or your scope is to only Nigeria (Lagos, probably)

And the jobs, are your jobs for foreign clients or just nigerian developer jobs?

Please don't mind me, just curious

Or if you can, create a thread on the difficulty of outsourcing developer jobs in Eko Nigeria (this board is damn boring this days, thanks to seun's bad-belle)

Yeap, seun is the one killing this board.
When it comes to getting developers, I have moved from trying to secure experts (mission impossible 6) to trying to get developers that can work (this is easier and works).
For developers, I prefer those in the country, and I have been able to locate serious minded people too amongst us Nairalanders.
I do foreign jobs as well, scope is not limited to local.
By the way, I dont restrict my developers to Lagos, internet is a global place.

Little or no teamwork.

kayoph:
I think the problem lies with
1. not trusting our fellows enough... and Big projects can't be achieved in isolation.
2. Funds n low budget.. We have fewer investors in the IT sector that trust to get returns on a home made product.
3. Developer's community engagement isn't pronounced and I think that can be improved as someone as said earlier " open source codes for. programs" can improve engagement thus increasing the quality of developers in the community. Because open source software help set a standard that is usually raised with time depending on developers work. Hence spot lighting More quality developers to work with and less failure
.
4. Light(NEPA).. this affects a lot of guys, young guys (like me too) in the industry.. I had to go and make a rapport with a surebet company shop(not the small shop outlets I mean one of those regional offices) to allow me come daily to use their electric power. Otherwise it would have been difficult to get a steady power.. I heard about a guy who said he writes his codes on paper and wait till NEPA brings light to test and run it..it's crazy!!. Not good enough.

4. Going to programming " just" for the money. I think a problem solving mind should be the main kind of mind a developer should have. This kind of mind is needed when odds against the success of a project is high. At this point someone with gaze upon money only would instantly loose interest... And every major breakthrough had a tough time too.

5. On team building for a project : not knowing who should and who shouldn't be on a team for a start up


dhtml18.. Baba, I hail.. I respect your comments nd the way you've handled threads, you are such an inspiration .. I await with an expectant mind the delivery of Africode Net. Lim. I hope I get to see you in person some day. You're indeed a boss.. You are a wave of influence in this programming section.

Stonemasonn, thanks for the thread.

that number 4 tho, I'm actually thinking of negotiating with a guy that runs a shop too to use his electricity, wanting to code and not having power is very frustrating.

dhtml18:

Yeap, seun is the one killing this board.
When it comes to getting developers, I have moved from trying to secure experts (mission impossible 6) to trying to get developers that can work (this is easier and works).
For developers, I prefer those in the country, and I have been able to locate serious minded people too amongst us Nairalanders.
I do foreign jobs as well, scope is not limited to local.
By the way, I dont restrict my developers to Lagos, internet is a global place.

Hello DHTML how do you get a serious minded team in nigeria without money at the core?

A little brother needs your help.

stonemasonn:
well l have always wished to be a programmer. I have tried vb6, python, c, c#, and have dumped all. but now that I am out of employment and broke, with mouths to feed I have decided front end web design is the way to go. with JavaScript-jquery-photoshop/illustrator and HTML-css, all to learn. Afterwards learn php, mysql, nodes.js etc, along with frameworks and libraries like angular.js, lavarel, bootstrap and many more never ending stuffs.

To be honest the learning curve is steep and most Nigerians close to my situation will go for short cuts. you just need to start making some money as quick as possible and hence quality is compromised.

I jumped into programming when I saw a post by Paul Graham that any intelligent person could learn programming in 6 months. Nothing could be further from the truth. It was 2 years (full time) before I could boast of standing on my feet (Ruby, Rails, HTML, CSS, Linux, Git, Minitest, ES6) and I am still learning everyday - I plan to add elixir, python and react or Nodejs to my stack soon.

The solution is to attend a coding academy, it will drastically cut down on learning time. My plan is to open one before the end of the year.

davinchecodes:


Hello DHTML how do you get a serious minded team in nigeria without money at the core?

A little brother needs your help.

I cannot sell my trade secret just like that now. Of course there has to be money in the end, but it is about building trust in each other.

PLS BRO, I SERIOUSLY NEED YOUR HELP... I NEED TO LEARN WEB DEVELOPING/PROGRAMMING FROM THE SCRATCH!!! I CAN MAKE SACRIFICE TO LEARN IT...I just graduated and need something doing.... pls contact me or rather drop your contact too; 08060236341/07087655578...
thanks in anticipation...

PLS BRO, I SERIOUSLY NEED YOUR HELP... I NEED TO LEARN WEB DEVELOPING/PROGRAMMING FROM THE SCRATCH!!! I CAN MAKE SACRIFICE TO LEARN IT...I just graduated and need something doing.... pls contact me or rather drop your contact too; 08060236341/07087655578...
thanks in anticipation..

kanayoNickel:
sometimes, the problem is lack of collabos.

Most programmers like their 3D/CGI peers feel like Bronze Gods.

They never belive in working together, forming hubs, you know, that sort of thing.

they become too encased in the program they learnt and feel an intense,almost suffocating need, to guard their skill.

They forget that collaborating more breeds innovation and sharpens intelligence. Nigerian programmers should adopt the MIT model

Gbam !

Naija devs dont collaborate by nature, and it is killing the profession.

dhtml18:
Naija devs dont collaborate by nature, and it is killing the profession.

And they dont contribute to open source software, it's all about me, me, and Me. Sometimes going Solo is the way to go.
Enjoy it while it last