WhoBeThisMan:

are these in the Quran?

ilynem:

Muslims are taught to defend Muhammad to the last. So truth is, they do not see anything wrong in his actions. He is like their Moral judge. As long as Muhammad did it, it is right! So truth is, they do not see anything wrong with the above claims. So you will get anyone of the following.
1. Muslims who are truthful and know these claims do not paint Islam in a good way. These ones will avoid this thread and make no comment. Because they know you are right, but too deep in their religion to have a rethink.
2. Muslims who are blinded by their faith but know nothing about their religion and only believes what their Imams tell them. So what will they do? Attack you and not the OP you raised. Call you a liar, call you ignorant, claim you know nothing about Islam and generally derail the thread.
3. Muslims who are blinded by their faith and actually know a lot about religion. These ones are the worst. When they come here, they will defend every action of Muhammad. I watched a guy on YouTube who actually claimed Muhammad marrying 11 wives was a good thing because all of them except Aisha (who was married at six and sex at nine) were actually widows. So he married them because these women had no one to take care of them. Looking at it from that point you might actually believe him and see Muhammad as a good man, until you realize that one of these women had her husband and father killed by Muhammad. Another was the wife of his own adopted son. And when people started to raise alarm that he had married the wife of an adopted son, Muhammad receives a revelation from Allah, banning adoption in Islam. How convenient that just when you Marry the wife of an adopted son, adoption becomes a taboo so it no longer looks like he married the wife of his son but instead the wife of another random guy. So you see, these set of people will come here and spin it like its a good thing Muhammad did. They actually believe his actions are moral and right. If Muhammad did it, it must be right and these are the most dangerous set of Muslims. I recall having a discussion with one of them recently and he was so convinced that Men are superior to women and that Beating of your wife is not wrong. Can you imagine what the wife of such a person will go through?
I know you opened this thread for knowledge but my bro, you will only get this knowledge from Christians who will tell you the truth about Islam.

Ken4Christ:
These truths are not new revelations to the Muslims. They know but they are afraid they will be killed if they renounce Islam. But it is better to die now and enjoy eternal life than to live in falsehood and spend the rest of your life in a burning flame.

I plead with all Muslim reading this, please, give your life to Jesus before it is too late. God will protect you from anyone that wants to kill you. Even if your family throws you out, God will give you a new family.

WhoBeThisMan:

are these in the Quran?

hodusglobal:
Lalasticlala or mynd44...Anyone of you should close this thread immediately...Order from the Federal Peace Fellows of Nigeria. Because people will start argument now and which may leads to insulting each other. I guessed there's something drumming inside the OP brain. Thanks!

WhoBeThisMan:
I appreciate your contributions, but pls don't insult.

Now my question, who are those that wrote the hadits, and can they be verified?

true2god:
The hadith were written by different people who lived about 200 to 300 years after the death of Mohammed. Pls note that Mohammed died of food poison he ate in a Jewish town called khaibar.

The major writers are Bukhari and Muslim. This two are regarded as the most authentic and reliable hadith collectors in Islam.

Other writers of hadith are Ibn Majjah, al-tirmidi and Abu dawood. Their hadith collections are also acceptable in mainstream Islam.

What is hadith (though I chose to call it ha-death atimes)? Hadith is the collections of all what Mohammed said and did, not as a biography, but as a piece-by-piece testimony of different individuals who are the contemporaries of Mohammed, especially his sahabas or disciples. The hadith collectors traveled far and wide, like investigative journalist, to gather information about Mohammed, and this is what lead to what we now have as the hadith.

Pls note that none of the hadith collectors saw Mohammed face to face or know him personally, they only gathered true and false information from the 5 to 7 generation of people who lived after the death of Mohammed, some of whom are descendants of the sahabas. This is why the hadith is not reliable hence the segmentation of the hadith into authentic (sahih), weak and fabricated hadith. And from my perspective, Islam is all about falsehood and fabrications, by the desert Arabs, and wrapped with Mohammed and allahh. Whatever lies the medieval Arabs tell the world, as long as it packaged and wrapped with Mohammed emblem, it must be true.

Thank you.

WhoBeThisMan:

Wow, what makes this interesting is that no Muslim has come here to counter this

Eazie351:

Later on, yhu‘ll be screaming someone wants to derail. You just wanted some enlightening not some hulabaloo

WhoBeThisMan:
I will appreciate your input in this topic, are you a Muslim?

WhoBeThisMan:
Here is the post:

I will first of advice you to calm down and do t make hasty decisions.

You See, in Islam it is mandated that such a wife is to be killed for leaving Islam. That was the order given by Mohammad to all Muslims.

Sahih Bukhari (84:57) - [In the words of] "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"


Now, can you kill your wife because of religion? Deep down in your heart, do you think it is the right thing to do? I don't know how long you've been married or whether you have kids together, but pls consider the fact that you love her, kiss her and hold her dearly in your heart before you think about killing her just to please a barbaric religious doctrine.

Have you asked her why she left Islam? Do you honestly think Islam is the way to the truth? Have you juxtaposed your Prophet Muhammad and Yahshua the Messiah to see clearly which of them is worthy to be called the way, the truth and the life?

Below is just a peace of both men and how they treated women. Pls, be honest with yourself for once and see if you've not been deceived, a thing which your wife has discovered.



Enter Jesus


*He brought back a dead girl to life
*He healed a woman with an issue of blood
*He prevented the stoning of a Mary Magdalene
*Mary Magdalene washed his feet with perfume and her hair in show of appreciation
*Women wept during his trial and crucifixion
*Women wept at his grave due to love for him
*He said men should love their wives
*A woman was the first to hear of his resurrection



Enter mohammad

*He married a 6yr old girl called aisha
*He consummated the marriage when she clocked 9yrs
*He saw a little baby crawling and swore to marry her if he is still alive when she comes of age.
*He killed a Jewish woman's husband and father then converted, married and had sex with her on the same day
*He married the wife of his adopted son after seeing her unclothedness and desiring her
*He married his first wife, a 40yr old widow when he was 25
* He Married 11 wives and use to sleep with them all in one night
*Says a woman's testimony is worth half of a man's testimony
*Says 3 things spoil prayers - a donkey, a black dog and a woman
*Prescribed beating of wives
*Prevented women from inheritance
*He wore women's clothes
*He ordered the stoning of an adulterous woman
*He was Killed by poison given to him by a WOMAN



Mind you, everything written above can be verified in the bible and Quran.

google is not your enemy

WhoBeThisMan:
Is there no Muslim here? Or is it safe to assume that all that has been written is true?

WhoBeThisMan:
Here is the post:

I will first of advice you to calm down and do t make hasty decisions.

You See, in Islam it is mandated that such a wife is to be killed for leaving Islam. That was the order given by Mohammad to all Muslims.

Sahih Bukhari (84:57) - [In the words of] "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"


Now, can you kill your wife because of religion? Deep down in your heart, do you think it is the right thing to do? I don't know how long you've been married or whether you have kids together, but pls consider the fact that you love her, kiss her and hold her dearly in your heart before you think about killing her just to please a barbaric religious doctrine.

Have you asked her why she left Islam? Do you honestly think Islam is the way to the truth? Have you juxtaposed your Prophet Muhammad and Yahshua the Messiah to see clearly which of them is worthy to be called the way, the truth and the life?

Below is just a peace of both men and how they treated women. Pls, be honest with yourself for once and see if you've not been deceived, a thing which your wife has discovered.

aminusanti:

I will cut dis into 2 parts, i will proceed to the next part if those online scholars above clear their lies.
Alhamdulillah ! Islam provides more than enough detailed explanation and proofs on this "Killling of the apostate" Without knowledge of context these funny kafirs will come here to spread their mat of lies thinking everyone is foolish, sheepishly copying n paste without proper understanding. You can carry on hating islam but the truth will always remain, you can talk from now till next year if you like but
whoever is here for the truth will surely benefit from it.
You wont be getting any muslim here wasting his time to contribute knowing exactly who alBHAGDADI and his squad r here on NL. they are well known on NL for their dishonesty,lying, rude and disrespectful attitude towards other faiths(religion)..


Today due to lack of proper understanding of the scripture both Muslims nd non-muslim get easily influenced by this kind of Islam haters (alBHAGDADI & co) on the internet and media showing islam is there to kill everyone...Notice no where in the Quran it was mentioned to kill an apostate...its always contrary to the hadith of the prophet and here is why..

1. >>>Let us look at Noble Verse 3:72
"A section of the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) say: Believe in the morning what is revealed to the believers (Muslims), but reject it at the end of the day; perchance they may (themselves) turn back (from Islam)."

While Islam was weak and still growing among Jews, Christians and Pagans back then, Muslims did not have the full and complete religion that they needed. Some Jews and Christians wanted to take advantage of such situation to destroy Islam. They had a plan to adopt Islam first and then desert it, thus creating the impression that Islam was not a religion worth adopting. To protect Islam from such Satanic attempts done by a group of the people of the book (Jews and Christians), Prophet Mohammed peace be upon him ordered the death of those who enter Islam and leave it. This temporary law that was put by our Prophet had stopped the hypocrites from the People of the Book who carried so much hatred toward Islam to enter Islam and desert it afterwards.


2. >>>QURAN 5:54<<<
"O ye who believe! If any from among you turn back from his faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He (Allah) will love as they will love Him lowly with the believers, Mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproachers of such as find fault. That is the Grace of Allah which He will bestow on whom He (Allah) pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things."

Here in this Holy Verse we see again Allah Almighty strengthening the faith of the Muslims in Islam by assuring them that whenever they see Muslims leaving Islam they will also see those who join Islam with strong faith and love to Allah Almighty not kill.


3. >>>Let us look at Noble Verse 3:90<<<
"But those who reject faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of faith never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray."

This Holy Verse also does not order the death of those who leave Islam.


4. >>>Quran: Let us look at Noble Verses 15:2-3<<<
"Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them)."

5. >>>Quran: Let us look at Noble Verse 18:29<<<
"Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it): for the wrong doers We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable a couch to recline on!"


6. >>>The Noble Quran, 10:101-102<<<
"Say: 'Behold all that is in the heavens and on earth'; but neither Signs nor Warners profit those who believe not. Do they then expect (any thing) but (what happened in) the days of the men who passed away before them? Say: 'Wait ye then: for I, too, will wait with you."

Notice how Allah Almighty orders us to say "Wait" to those who reject Islam. This clearly says that we can't force anyone into Islam, or punish anyone for leaving Islam.


7.>>>Quran: Let us look at Noble Verse 2:256<<<
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."

The Holy Quran prohibits Muslims to force any person into Islam. Muslims must not let people resent Islam and Muslims. They must leave people decide for themselves because the "Truth stands out clear from error" (2:256).


>>>Quran: Noble Verse 4:137 <<<
"Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief,- Allah will not forgive them nor guide them nor guide them on the way."

Notice that the Quran says those who reject faith and then BELIEVE and again DISBELIEVE. if a Muslim rejects faith and is then killed for doing so how will he live to again BELIEVE and then DISBELIEVE. The atmosphere of this verse is that of free will and freedom of choice to everyone. If Allah wanted he would have said something about the punishment, if there was any, of those who reject Islam after accepting it. but Allah takes this to be clearly a private matter between them and Allah.

I found many verses in the Quran that teach us NO PUNISHMENT for an apostate BUT I found no verse that says the contrary.
Compulsion is incompatible with religion: Because (1) religion depends upon faith and will, and these would be meaningless by force; (2) Truth and Error have been so clearly shown up by the mercy of Allah Almighty that there should be no doubt in the minds of any persons of good will as to the fundamentals of faith; (3) Allah Almighty's protection is continuous, and His Plan is always to lead us from the depths of darkness into the clearest light.

true2god:
How I wish that your revised version of Islam were true, but no, you cannot revise the commandments of allahh and his apostle. You might be right that the Koran did not make any specific reference to killing apostates, but the hadith did (the sunnah of your prophet also sanctioned the killing of apostates). Saudi Arabia, the centre and the source of Islamic religion and theology, approved the killing of apostates, in obedience to allahh and his messenger. The links below may assist you.

www.express.co.uk/news/world/560329/Man-gets-death-sentence-for-apostasy-in-Saudi-Arabia-after-ripping-up-Koran

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/apostasy/

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-man-sentenced-death-atheism-ahmad-al-shamri-hafar-al-batin-appeal-denied-a7703161.html

The quranic verses below sanctioned killing of whoever leaves islam:

Quran (4:89) - "They wish that you should reject faith as they reject faith, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

Verse 4:65 says that those who have faith are in "full submission" to Muhammad's teachings. This verse explains what should happen to Muslims who do not have faith.

Quran (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail(attack) your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

If you read the above surah with open mind, you will discover that apostasy is never acceptable in the koran. Now compare the above surah with the hadith below;

Sahih Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Sahih Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."
Sahih Bukhari (84:57) - [In the words of] "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

Sahih Bukhari (89:271) - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle."

Sahih Bukhari (84:58) - "There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, 'Who is this (man)?' Abu Muisa said, 'He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.' Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, 'I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice.' Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, 'Then we discussed the night prayers'"

Sahih Bukhari (84:64-65) - "Allah's Apostle: 'During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.'" This verse from the Hadith is worse than it appears because it isn't speaking solely of apostates, but those who say they believe but don't put their religion into practice.

I appreciate the fact that you wish Islam will be civil enough to accept apostates, but you are wrong. It is very clear in the hadith and the quran that apostates should be killed. Why do we have some verses of the quran that seem to promote religious freedom in Islam (Quran 2:256)? The peaceful Koranic verses were revealed in mecca when Mohammed was weak and was under the persecution of the meccan pagans. The violent verses, which were revealed in Medina, abrogated the meccan people verses. I believe you understand the concept of abrogation in Islam.

In summary, killing apostates is mainstream Islam and part of the sunnah of the prophet, especially when he moved from mecca to Medina.

aminusanti:

is this a way for you to prove your empty claims?? So, i should use Saudi to judge islam not the scriptures? pls get this right, "wrong is wrong even if the whole world is doing it and right is right even if you are the only one doing it"...why cant you prove it using the scriptures if truly you knw what you are reading?
Some few group of Muslims believe in killing apostates but according to most prominent scholars around the globe proved it is not and the same goes to the Bible the crusader and some other christian groups believed killing a non-believer/apostate is allowed using these bible verses, what are you going to say about them?? Are you saying they are doing it the right way??
Exermine the following verses closely

>>>Deut 13:6<<<
“If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods, do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people.”

>>>Deut<<<
“And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, …..and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die.”


is this how you interpret scriptures without any context? you dont have to lie to prove something my friend, i made this crystal clear in my prev post..

If a verse says "Kill them", Who does it refer to? Why? When you look at 88-94 you see:
1- Who: Hypocrites.
2- Why: They want you to leave your religion and fight against you.
3- Whoever wants peace, give it to them.

Looking at the reasons for revelation of these verses, they were about the Battle of Uhud... It's about the deserters.

Out of the 1000 fighters of the Muslim army, right before the battle started, some people left them and went back home, this is also mentioned in the Quran Surat 'Ali `Imran [3:166-168]...

After the Muslims lost the battle, they disagreed on what to do with the people who deserted right before the battle.

A simplified summary of what's in [4:88-94] would be:
You can't help them unless they help themselves.
They want you to leave your faith and be like them.
If they fight you, you may kill them except for
Those who join a group with whom you have a treaty.
Those who don't want to fight.
Those who send you (Guarantees of) peace.

Allah opened no way for you to wage any war against them.

You will find others who wish to obtain security from you. Who keep falling back into disbelief, and keep fighting Muslims.

If they do not stop fighting, or offer peace, or restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you overtake them.

Allah made a clear authorization about those.

A believer should never kill a believer
If it happens by mistake, the killer should pay a compensation.
If it happens intentionally, the killer will go to Hell, for ever.

Assume that whoever greets you with peace is a believer.

Looks clear enough, it's about a specific group of people, and gave many possibilities, options, exceptions, clears out asumptions...

thats the reason why you pple are always failing to comprehend even your scriptures bcus u only read without bothering to comprehend it as it should. Reading and understanding are two very different things. We all know this. Believers study the scriptures not with only open mind but also with good understanding; non-believers like you skim through it and somehow think that they have a firmer grasp on it than we do.

Now read the next verse and see if you can understanding something there>>

>>Quran [9:13] Will you not fight against those who broke their pledges and did all they could to drive the Messenger away and initiated hostilities against you? Do you fear them? Surely Allah has greater right that you should fear Him, if you are true believers.

you will always misinterpret da islamic scriptures simply bcus u are only looking for fault in it and thats why you end up copying n pasting rubbish always..
from the above verse one can easily understand what the verses before this are talking about, those verses are talking about the hypocrites that will tale false oath in other to take advantage of the muslim by attacking them, what will you do if someone is there to harm/kill you?

any sensible persn that read my prev post will surely knw i already explained all these... Again

>>>Let us look at Noble Verse 3:72
"A section of the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) say: Believe in the morning what is revealed to the believers (Muslims), but reject it at the end of the day; perchance they may (themselves) turn back (from Islam)."

While Islam was weak and still growing among Jews, Christians and Pagans back then, Muslims did not have the full and complete religion that they needed. Some Jews and Christians wanted to take advantage of such situation to destroy Islam. They had a plan to adopt Islam first and then desert it, thus creating the impression that Islam was not a religion worth adopting. To protect Islam from such Satanic attempts done by a group of the people of the book (Jews and Christians), Prophet Mohammed peace be upon him ordered the death of those who enter Islam and leave it. This temporary law that was put by our Prophet had stopped the hypocrites from the People of the Book who carried so much hatred toward Islam to enter Islam and desert it afterwards.Certainly if the apostate is hostile toward the Muslims and joins the enemy in a war against them, or tries to corrupt the Muslims in the Muslim lands by trying to convert them to his/her new deviant religion, then the matter becomes different in some arab nation...

My Few questions for you
* Does your scriptures support the killing of apostate?

Deut 13:6<<<[/b]
[color=#990000]“If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods, do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people.”

>>>Deut<<<
“And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, …..and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die.”
etc

aminusanti:

is this a way for you to prove your empty claims?? So, i should use Saudi to judge islam not the scriptures? pls get this right, "wrong is wrong even if the whole world is doing it and right is right even if you are the only one doing it"...why cant you prove it using the scriptures if truly you knw what you are reading?
Some few group of Muslims believe in killing apostates but according to most prominent scholars around the globe proved it is not and the same goes to the Bible the crusader and some other christian groups believed killing a non-believer/apostate is allowed using these bible verses, what are you going to say about them?? Are you saying they are doing it the right way??
Exermine the following verses closely

>>>Deut 13:6<<<
“If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods, do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people.”

>>>Deut<<<
“And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, …..and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die.”


is this how you interpret scriptures without any context? you dont have to lie to prove something my friend, i made this crystal clear in my prev post..

If a verse says "Kill them", Who does it refer to? Why? When you look at 88-94 you see:
1- Who: Hypocrites.
2- Why: They want you to leave your religion and fight against you.
3- Whoever wants peace, give it to them.

Looking at the reasons for revelation of these verses, they were about the Battle of Uhud... It's about the deserters.

Out of the 1000 fighters of the Muslim army, right before the battle started, some people left them and went back home, this is also mentioned in the Quran Surat 'Ali `Imran [3:166-168]...

After the Muslims lost the battle, they disagreed on what to do with the people who deserted right before the battle.

A simplified summary of what's in [4:88-94] would be:
You can't help them unless they help themselves.
They want you to leave your faith and be like them.
If they fight you, you may kill them except for
Those who join a group with whom you have a treaty.
Those who don't want to fight.
Those who send you (Guarantees of) peace.

Allah opened no way for you to wage any war against them.

You will find others who wish to obtain security from you. Who keep falling back into disbelief, and keep fighting Muslims.

If they do not stop fighting, or offer peace, or restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you overtake them.

Allah made a clear authorization about those.

A believer should never kill a believer
If it happens by mistake, the killer should pay a compensation.
If it happens intentionally, the killer will go to Hell, for ever.

Assume that whoever greets you with peace is a believer.

Looks clear enough, it's about a specific group of people, and gave many possibilities, options, exceptions, clears out asumptions...

thats the reason why you pple are always failing to comprehend even your scriptures bcus u only read without bothering to comprehend it as it should. Reading and understanding are two very different things. We all know this. Believers study the scriptures not with only open mind but also with good understanding; non-believers like you skim through it and somehow think that they have a firmer grasp on it than we do.

Now read the next verse and see if you can understanding something there>>

>>Quran [9:13] Will you not fight against those who broke their pledges and did all they could to drive the Messenger away and initiated hostilities against you? Do you fear them? Surely Allah has greater right that you should fear Him, if you are true believers.

you will always misinterpret da islamic scriptures simply bcus u are only looking for fault in it and thats why you end up copying n pasting rubbish always..
from the above verse one can easily understand what the verses before this are talking about, those verses are talking about the hypocrites that will tale false oath in other to take advantage of the muslim by attacking them, what will you do if someone is there to harm/kill you?

any sensible persn that read my prev post will surely knw i already explained all these... Again

>>>Let us look at Noble Verse 3:72
"A section of the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) say: Believe in the morning what is revealed to the believers (Muslims), but reject it at the end of the day; perchance they may (themselves) turn back (from Islam)."

While Islam was weak and still growing among Jews, Christians and Pagans back then, Muslims did not have the full and complete religion that they needed. Some Jews and Christians wanted to take advantage of such situation to destroy Islam. They had a plan to adopt Islam first and then desert it, thus creating the impression that Islam was not a religion worth adopting. To protect Islam from such Satanic attempts done by a group of the people of the book (Jews and Christians), Prophet Mohammed peace be upon him ordered the death of those who enter Islam and leave it. This temporary law that was put by our Prophet had stopped the hypocrites from the People of the Book who carried so much hatred toward Islam to enter Islam and desert it afterwards.Certainly if the apostate is hostile toward the Muslims and joins the enemy in a war against them, or tries to corrupt the Muslims in the Muslim lands by trying to convert them to his/her new deviant religion, then the matter becomes different in some arab nation...

My Few questions for you
* Does your scriptures support the killing of apostate?

Deut 13:6<<<[/b]
[color=#990000]“If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods, do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people.”

>>>Deut<<<
“And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, …..and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die.”
etc

alBHAGDADI:
You still don't get it, do you?

Those were laws of Moses given to the nation of Israel as a constitution. They have nothing to do with Christians. Even the Israelites dont follow such laws anymore. If Jesus Christ endorsed such laws, he would have been killing the pagans in Israel then.

Billions of people understand those laws as laws for idea of old and no more applicable.

Also, billions of people understand Islamic Sharia law as a law still applicable in today's world, which makes the world barbaric.

true2god:
It is surprising that Nigerian Muslims seem to have more understanding of Islam than the numerous sheiks and ulamas in Saudi Arabia, the home of Islam and the country that hosts the yearly pilgrimage of hajj. It is shocking that a country, that is Nigeria, that experienced Islam for less than 250 years would want to lecture the country where Islam originated from, that is Saudi Arabia, their ancestral religion. That's the height or arrogance and ignorance, on the part of Nigerian or black Muslims. The Saudis will be smiling at your ignorance and arrogance.

[s]You said it is a few Muslim that approve of killing of apostates. Bros you are lying, either deliberately or ignorantly, and I believe the former to be true. Below is a link for countries where atheist and apostates are killed or jailed , and you know what, they are all Islamic countries;

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/12/13-countries-where-atheism-punishable-death/355961/

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/apostasy/

www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/05/islam-saudi-apostasy-201458142128717473.html

Open the links above and read. It is a pity that Muslims no longer believe in facts and their own hadith, all in an attempt to defend the barbaric tradition of Islam, which are applicable in most hard core Islamic countries.[/s]

In a typical Muslim manner you quoted the Jewish Torah of Deuteronomy in order to deflect current discussion.
Can you show me a single Jewish or Christian country that punish apostates? The answer is non. Did Jesus ask his followers to kill apostates, the same way Mohammed did, and even executed some apostates personally which currently serves as part of the sunnah of your prophet Mohammed? And it is unfortunate that you have to juxtapos and wriggle in order to explain Quran 4:85 and 65 which sanctioned killing of apostates, what a shame.

And again you condemned all the numerous hadith that sanctioned the killing of apostates, even when they are all sahih. Why do Muslims like lies and deceptions? The 'science' of hadith stipulate that an hadith is sahih when there are more that 2 or 3 chains of narrators, why are you breaking the rules of Islamic laws and jurisprudence?

alBHAGDADI:
Yes sir, I'm here. I'll address the points I raised one by one. If I can't finish, hopefully my Christian friends like true2god, plappville, annunaki2, ilynem etc will help me out.

Number 1 point raised.


Mohammad married a 6yr old girl named Aisha and had sex with her when she clocked 9yrs. Below is an hadith narration by Aisha herself.


Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old , and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). ( Sahih Al-Bukhari , Volume 7, Book 62,
Number 64 ; see also Numbers 65 and 88)



SAHIH AL-BUKHARI
Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me
while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends . She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age . (Sahih Al-Bukhari , Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234 )

plappville:
Apostasy is Islamic. Stop lying. Al taquiya.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnZviVTXoAA

Deicide:
It seems like you guys are quoting from different Quran or what?

aminusanti:

i am not here to be talking trash nd recycling issues pls
you are still talking nonsense and not making any sense my friend. you r yet to prove anything about the killing of apostate.


Am done with you on this part if you like carry on deceiving yourself. anyone thats here for facts will understand my prev post..take your time and read again if you still fail to comprehend you can ask someone to help you out..


* Do christian terrorist groups kill apostates using the of OT?
* is the God (jesus/yahweh) of deuteronomy (moses) different from the God christians?? why all these double standard nonsense??
* why would the loving GOD order the killing of apostate in the nation of israel?
* are the laws in OT and Hadith(on apostasy) permanent or temporary and what differentiate them?

* Did you start seeing how selfish u r yet ??

Again another waste of space..read my prev post pls..thnx

aminusanti:

I wont get it until you explain to us this your double standard nonsense.. I swear you are as confused as your trinity concept...

Do you have sense at all?

*"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them.
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by
any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these
commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and
teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." ~ Matt 5:17-19


* do the crusaders and other christian group kill apostate?


* is the God of moses the same as God of christians?

* why would a loving jesus/ yahweh issued those laws as constitution to the nation of israel even if theyr temporary??



* why cant the laws in the hadith be old and b no more applicable in the case of islam?

aminusanti:

I wont get it until you explain to us this your double standard nonsense.. I swear you are as confused as your trinity concept...

Do you have sense at all?

*"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them.
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by
any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these
commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and
teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." ~ Matt 5:17-19

aminusanti:

* do the crusaders and other christian group kill apostate?

aminusanti:

* is the God of moses the same as God of christians?

aminusanti:

* why would a loving jesus/ yahweh issued those laws as constitution to the nation of israel even if theyr temporary??

aminusanti:

* why cant the laws in the hadith be old and b no more applicable in the case of islam?

alBHAGDADI:
You still don't get it, do you?

Those were laws of Moses given to the nation of Israel as a constitution. They have nothing to do with Christians. Even the Israelites dont follow such laws anymore. If Jesus Christ endorsed such laws, he would have been killing the pagans in Israel then.

Billions of people understand those laws as laws for idea of old and no more applicable. Also, billions of people understand Islamic Sharia law as a law still applicable in today's world, which makes the world barbaric.