jay bee:

what's your preference dawg?
bank reforms =>unemployment <=stable financial services industry a
bank reforms => unemployment => stable financial services industry b
bank reforms => employment <= stable financial services industry c
[s]bank reforms => employment => stable financial services industry d[/s] it will take time for job growth indicator to be seen

my equation should be
reforms = stable financial services industry = more jobs

thts ma equation

tkb417:

we are preparing a bid of 1.2 billion to take our club away from debts
i told you, we can never be burdened by debts cos UTD would be bought by money bags (no necessarily sheiks now)
i told ya

your glazer parasites never dey ready to leave una.
No be mouth u go take raise 1.2bn. We no even sure say those red knights get money chop      

assume 20,000 have been sacked. what do you call that?
thts a mass sack!

20,000 added to the growing list of the unemployed is a disaster

With the level of unemployment in Naija, 20k is a small drop in the ocean.
Still I doubt they could have sacked 20k already. It really would be nice top have some actual data and not just newspaper speculations.

biina:

your glazer parasites never dey ready to leave una.
No be mouth u go take raise 1.2bn. We no even sure say those red knights get money chop

if they get 1.2 billion offer, they'll take it and run
the reason they bought UTD is to make money; at 1.2 billion, they have made what they wont make in 10 years
1.2-700 = 500milla
thts cool money

biina:

With the level of unemployment in Naija, 20k is a small drop in the ocean.
Still I doubt they could have sacked 20k already. It really would be nice top have some actual data and not just newspaper speculations.

a small drop in the ocean but the trickling effect of adding an additional 20,000 household is what im talking about
the previously unemployed people have been coping with menial jobs and some petty biznizs, how do you want a bread winner with kids to cope when hes suddenly sacked cos of the inefficiencies of the management and system?

tkb417:

hahahahaha
genuine growth = fat balance sheet is not equal to developmental growth

are you talking about the banking sector or the entire Nigerian economy?

the real growth in the economy isnt about GDP a healthy balance sheet, its about the welfare of the people
we cant say we are having a genuine growth when the general populace are without jobs

the welfare of the common man has not improved since independence, and the situation wont change much as long as we have 'living dead' as president

no sane CEO should sack to mitigate redundacy
thts what some of the captains of the financial services industry in the US said to me ( and some enlightened financial technocrats in a seminar recently) and that is very true

I disagree, a company, even under promising economic climate, should always optimize its labor force to suit its position and forecast. Quantity does not always equate to quality, and maintaining redundant labor  is unsound management practice IMO.

What was the justification given for keeping the redundant labor at the expense of profitability?

at t point did the sacked become redundant

so they became redundant cos of the over exposure of the banks or what?

what were they when the banks were hiring enmasse

lol

Biina, they were sacked simply cos the banks made mistakes and they need to cut their coat according to the new regimes prescriptions
the new regime gave them money and he who plays the tune-complete the statement

how come GTB and Access arent sacking? they dont have redundant staff in their midst?
abeg

tkb417:

if they get 1.2 billion offer, they'll take it and run
the reason they bought UTD is to make money; at 1.2 billion, they have made what they wont make in 10 years
1.2-700 = 500milla
thts cool money

I doubt they would pay the glazers £1.2 bn and still inherit all the debts. United have over £700m in debt and the glazer also invested about £300m of their own money, so profit will be more like £200n which is decent enough. The question then becomes if the knights can raise the £1.2 bn without heavy debts. I do hope they can pull it off before those glazers ruin the club.

a small drop in the ocean but the trickling effect of adding an additional 20,000 household is what im talking about
the previously unemployed people have been coping with menial jobs and some petty biznizs, how do you want a bread winner with kids to cope when hes suddenly sacked cos of the inefficiencies of the management and system?

But that is the sad truth about business, that the tool pushers lose their jobs before the fat executives. I doubt anyone has laid off more than 50% of their staff. This is still better than the company going belly up and the entire work force being laid off.

They became redundant at the point the bank couldn't sustain their remuneration as against their productivity. When a bank declare 9 figure losses, redundancy is inevitable. The fault lies squarely with the executives  for mismanaging things.

If a company is unprofitable, it is only logical that they trim negative marginal overhead.

biina:

How does 'many' become 'all' or that the sham went beyond the penalized banks, and more importantly become all banks being under-capitalized and insolvent? so the question becomes how long?

sanusi allegedly did not sack bank MDs for some sharp practices, he sacked the MDs for the insolvent state of the banks. Period.
People like Ovia engaged in sharp pratices, he too bought a Jet , he too used banking funds to pursue personal interests.
We do not hear of them today because Zenith was still deemed to be adequately capitalised.

You on the other hand seem to feel things are yet to get worse?

Misquoting me again. I dint say things are going to get worse. I only said that things are bad as they are.
The banking sector is presently in one of its worst shape in recent times.

You seem to be equating adequate capitalization of the banks to consolidation. Adequacy of capitalization is dependent on the level of exposure, and while Sanusi said that the CBN was not diligent enough in its handling of the capitalization, the audit report said that 14 banks were adequately capitalized. The only fair conclusion that can be reached from his statements was that some banks were not genuinely as capitalized as they claimed. The level of severity cannot be ascertained just from those comments.

I am not equating the two but they are not completely exclusive issues.
The larger your capital base, the larger your risk margins.

8 executives were forcefully changed by the CBN, while the deadline for tenure limit change is july 10 and I know of it affecting only 3 banks (zenith, sky and UBA). who is the 12th?

First Bank also experienced a change in management Remember ? (Sanusi) 

Succession of the top executive is not necessarily equal to a management overhaul. Even so, half is far from full, and you cannot make any more case for half-full than for half empty.

So you want to wait until all the banks are on their knees before you acknoledge that things are Bad 

I disagree. While job creation can be used as an indication of growth (real or otherwise) in a company or sector, job losses can simply be a move at improved efficiency and profitability.So how many banks are we talking about?

So all the banks all of a sudded decided to be more profitable and engaged on a mass sacking campaign.
Do you live in the real world

Is FBN, Zenith and others who passed the audit have above normal turnover?
You cannot use a handful of the banks to generalize for the whole sector.

But even the cleared banks are still sacking workers /downsizing and restructuring.
This may be due to either tighter or new operating conditions or other challenges which I had mentioned earlier.
Closure of available credit lines and lower confidence in Nigerian banks.(Due in part to the lower credit rating of Nigerian banks)
Imposed or new management.
Drop in revenue etc

I agree that I dont, but the indices and history point towards it not continuing beyond that. Once the AMC  (which is supposed to be operational by then ) absorbs the bad debts, I dont see what else could pull the banks further down.

what indices or history. Do you think you are talking to a kinder.

S&P downgraded Nigeria's outlook rating from stable to negative in March 2009 (before sanusi's appointment)

But you said they are improving .
Moreover Fistbank was exclusively downgraded Aug 2009 by S&P even though it was well managed by Sanusi.
There has been no upgrades by S&P so far.

So I dont see how it was a fallout of Sanusi's actions. Nobody is saying there has been no impact, but you would like us to believe that things are worse than the CBN says they are. Yet you have not provided any evidence to this effect.

During the consolidation saga, a lot of banks were put under difficult targets.
As at the time we did not experience the mass sack going on now neither did we experiance this level of downsizing.
Then came the recession and stock market crash there was still no mass sack and downsizing.
Then came the reforms and all banks including FBN and Zenith were sacking workers en masse.
You do the math.

misguided blarb to intellectual talks is supposed to be a criminal offence punishable by,

Honestly I really don't know the reason a lot of uninformed individual keep on saying rubish about the commendable reform in the bank subsector.
Ask anyone who used to be a "true banker" recently laid off by any of these distressed banks and you will get true feelers from them. The sector is seriously rotten with a lot of unsecured, ficticious and questionable facilities being booked.
If you are in the sector for real, u'll see a whole bunch of bankers with loans from more than three banks, yet they still want to take more, tell me, how do they repay when their take cannot even pay for 1/4 of their current liabilities.
This is a serious food for thought.

The title of this topic caught my eyes and was laughable.
We all know what the banks are going through, rot or not.
For someone to of Sanusi position should know that  the interest rate is not what is discouraging lending.
He himself is discouraging lending.
His policies and actions have trimmed down the banks risk  taking appetite which was nurtured during the consolidation saga.
The massive lay offs in the banks points to the fact that the banks are generally cutting down operations.
They are closing down branches.
Sanusi was even ranting that a certain bank had 60 branches running at a loss.
If you had ever been a player in any industry, you would know that bad news from one company can pull down the whole sector. capitalised or not.
This I expect sanusi to know but it is either he is not aware or that he is negligent of the fact.

You tell the world that 8 out of your 24 banks are insolvent.
That is not a joke, That is a crisis of fundamental nature. !
A foreign investor or a potential creditor will hear this news and be  cautions on Nigerian banks as whole.
They are becoming more pragmatic and are reducing the commitment to investing. (Staff size being an investment for every company )

He should know this, everyone does.
It was always going to come to this right from the day he started his rants.
I don't expect him to admit but someone has to say things the way they are.

I dont see anything wrong in sanitizing the banking sector.
But don't give us the impression that this is just an isolated case of a few errant bank MDs.
He should give us the true picture of things.
It has never been this bad , a third of our banking institutions were distressed !

GOD HELP US !

tkb417:

at t point did the sacked become redundant

so they became redundant cos of the over exposure of the banks or what?

what were they when the banks were hiring enmasse

lol

Biina, they were sacked simply cos the banks made mistakes and they need to cut their coat according to the new regimes prescriptions
the new regime gave them money and he who plays the tune-complete the statement

how come GTB and Access arent sacking? they dont have redundant staff in their midst?
abeg

these are times when the men are separated from the boys

even before sanusi, GTB and access were aggressively pursuing their bad debts - i remeber an ad by access or was it gtb - i think they wanted to put virgin nigeria into receivership

i guess some of these banks are like terminally patients who have been unaware and are finally forced to go to the doctor - every othr day, some ther ailment is uncovered which calls for further radical measures .

@shagger
If you're really informed and a 'true banker' (whatever that means), you'll go straight to your point and not foam in the nouth.
To put it to you mildly, ure the uninformed here with that post of yours.

I'll hope you can read and learn from the intellectual convo going on and don't bore us with your megedefegede on your 'food thought'
Na people like you suppose be farmer for village.

@Oyb
I understand your point. I can agree with GTB cos they weren't just in the business of lending and acquisitions!!

I don't think Access Bank was as clean as you're making them. I know they had issues with Virgin, had issues with AP and were involved in acquiring some of these sick banks
My point to Biina is this:
Why should sacking of workers be the next solution to address a systemic rot in the system?
Biina answered me correctly but I still feel a bit awkward the sacked are suffering cos some CEOs went gung ho in order to outdo one another in the market. Some of these CEOs have ammassed so much that all they need to do is recover the loot to buffer those on the 'Hit List'
I'm sure if they can recover for instance what Cecilia took from the bank, I doubt if their will be a need to slash the workforce.

Thts my point