Love is the nature of God. Agape love to be precise. But God himself does not condone evil but punishes evildoers. He according to his son Jesus has prepared a place where there will be groaning and gnashing of teeth eternally. The presence of the Son, a member of the Godhead on earth is actually a manifestation of the father's love John 3:16. The question is this- does God's love expel/exclude/override/prevent God's wrath? Are they compatible terms? Let's find out first whether God's own definition of his own kind of love contradict his definition and manifestation of his wrath? Secondly lets put into consideration views point of various sects like the Mohammedans who dispute that the Christian bible is full of contradictions and may site this too as example. The Jehovah witness who teach that a merciful/loving God is unable to punish mankind on this scale of severity etc.

To answer the title question, "Ofcourse it is!"

The manifestation of wrath itself is a SIN.So the "all loving God" broke his own rules there.An all-loving being, whatever that being might be, cannot be wrathful.All-loving and wrathfulness is an oxymoron.So therefore, the bible god's desired reputation as an all-loving deity is in variance to his wrathful nature.That is why the bible god failed the test for the position of the supreme being in the most woeful fashion.

according to you wrath is sin certainly not according To God and his word. God is not wrathful i.e easily angered but can be angered actually he is slow to wrath and abounding in mercy. I specifically emphasized God's own definition of Love Agape Love and not your own definition of Love. so show me how God by his own definition/word contradicted himself. i state again God Is not wrathful i.e easily angered. Anyway thanks for ur response and promptly too.

chinedumo:

according to you wrath is sin certainly not according To God and his word. God is not wrathful i.e easily angered but can be angered actually he is slow to wrath and abounding in mercy. I specifically emphasized God's own definition of Love Agape Love and not your own definition of Love. so show me how God by his own definition/word contradicted himself. i state again God Is not wrathful i.e easily angered. Anyway thanks for your response and promptly too.

God should not be "slow" to anger or wrath, either, chinedumo.To have the characteristics of "all-lovingness" does not permit that sort of emotions.To be wrathful is to lack love borne out of supreme spiritual growth that we normally attribute to the supreme being.There is no way around this.A god that is all-loving will always find a way to solve situations that arise amongst "his" creations without wrath.Any god that resort to wrathful acts whether slowly or quickly is a fake god.

In religions, the socalled wrath of God happen to be the wrath of MEN borne out of their own prejudices.As a result, whatever goes against their prejudices faces THEIR wrath, which they then translate as GOD'S WRATH.
God is not wrathful, MAN is.And i am not talking about the bible god here, because the bible god is nothing else other than the mirror image of the ancient wrathful man of the desert stone age civilizations.

^^^well put. couldn't have put it any better. hitler's wrath is childs play in comparison to this "all loving " bible god dat supposedly possess the powers to handle thing more lovingly n rationally if he decided

so show me how God by his own definition/word contradicted himself

you mean the defintion/words of ancient stone aged tribal savages with little ethical consideration

Great stuff from jagunlabi. 

The idea of a ''wrathful'' Creator is truly ludicrous. As is the idea that the Source of Life gets ''jealous'', and has a uniquely ''chosen people'' on earth, on behalf of whom he instigates wars, atrocities, and crimes against humanity, as witnessed by the numerous Israeli atrocities committed against their neighbours in the ''old testament'', and attributed to the ''commandments of the Lord''.

The Israelis may have had a deity - Yahweh - who instigated them to do evil - but he was no God. The very suggestion is ludicrous, and the fact that Africans routinely buy into this claim without question is evidence of our degraded consciousness in the post colonial period.

what's the major difference between love and hate? Arent they two sides of the same coin? ie emotion

I've told many of you to think before you type.

Even humans can say they love each other one minute then hate themselves the next.

what's so hard to understand about this?

tpiah:

what's the major difference between love and hate? Arent they two sides of the same coin? ie emotion
Even humans can say they love each other one minute then hate themselves the next.

what's so hard to understand about this?

Good point!
While you are quite right that love and hate are two sides of the same coin, that coin represent MAN'S emotion borne out of the EGO.And this is why the bible god is nothing more and nothing less than just a reflection of man's egoic based emotions, which only goes to further buttress the arguement that the bible god is MANMADE, hence the reflection.

The supreme being, the creator of the universe, is supposed to be so spiritually evolved that "IT" is EGOFREE, thus can neither exhibit nor reflect the emotion of wrath or jealousy which is borne of the human egoic nature.The egofree state of being is the natural and pure state of the true GOD.We humans are evolving to be like GOD, which means that we are on our way to shedding the egoic nature that we have been living in and causing havoc, mayhem and suffering with for millenia.That EGOLESS state of being is what is more popularly known and misunderstood as "THE KINGDOM OF GOD or HEAVEN".

EXACTLY!

ROSSIKE:

Great stuff from jagunlabi. 

The idea of a ''wrathful'' Creator is truly ludicrous. As is the idea that the Source of Life gets ''jealous'', and has a uniquely ''chosen people'' on earth, on behalf of whom he instigates wars, atrocities, and crimes against humanity, as witnessed by the numerous Israeli atrocities committed against their neighbours in the ''old testament'', and attributed to the ''commandments of the Lord''.

The Israelis may have had a deity - Yahweh - who instigated them to do evil - but he was no God. The very suggestion is ludicrous, and the fact that Africans routinely buy into this claim without question is evidence of our degraded consciousness in the post colonial period.

jagunlabi:

To answer the title question, "Ofcourse it is!"

The manifestation of wrath itself is a SIN.So the "all loving God" broke his own rules there.An all-loving being, whatever that being might be, cannot be wrathful.All-loving and wrathfulness is an oxymoron.So therefore, the bible god's desired reputation as an all-loving deity is in variance to his wrathful nature.That is why the bible god failed the test for the position of the supreme being in the most woeful fashion.

@jagunlabi in your first post you spoke like one who acknowledges the existence of the GOD of the Christians and his activities but you believe that his true nature is wrathfulness but he rather seeks to be known as Loving which according to u, his efforts to do so failed woefully. you even talked about him having rules which according to you he defaulted in them. Again u suggested that he is in a competition for "supreme being" with some "unmentioned others". and that he lost the competition and some 'unmentioned other" is probably occupying that post. your understanding of God as "all-loving" is at variance with God's self acclaimed nature of AGAPE LOVE. I never mentioned your own understanding/assumption of "all-loving" but God's self claim of AGAPE LOVE nature. your understanding of an All-loving God may oppose your understanding of all-wrathful/watchfulness God but God's self claim of an AGAPE LOVE nature is yet to be proven to contradict his self Claim as a consuming fire. From your post u have your own  definition of sin- u even acknowledged the existence of sin, and in your own definition of sin, Fast/slow wrath is included. U have defined yours, God has his own definition of Sin, and his definition is yet to be proven to include slow wrath. If the christian God is really Almighty as he claims, he does not need to contest for "supreme beingship". Cos he already is, though he may not be acknowledged as the supreme being. You are what u are whether others believe/acknowledge it or they don't acknowledge/recognize it. unless u are talking about his contesting for recognition as supreme being and not for the post of supreme being which of course is true. And if it is so, according to u he has lost this test for recognition. it is for your own good that u acknowledge him for who he is. it does him no Good but it does u so much good/benefit. This is how he expressed his love to mankind by making man's Good/benefit his own(God's) Good/benefit in revealing himself under the name of THE SON OF GOD in the person of JESUS for the good/benefit of mankind.

jagunlabi:

God should not be "slow" to anger or wrath, either, chinedumo.To have the characteristics of "all-lovingness" does not permit that sort of emotions.To be wrathful is to lack love borne out of supreme spiritual growth that we normally attribute to the supreme being.There is no way around this.A god that is all-loving will always find a way to solve situations that arise amongst "his" creations without wrath.Any god that resort to wrathful acts whether slowly or quickly is a fake god.

jagunlabi:

Good point!
While you are quite right that love and hate are two sides of the same coin, that coin represent MAN'S emotion borne out of the EGO.And this is why the bible god is nothing more and nothing less than just a reflection of man's egoic based emotions, which only goes to further buttress the arguement that the bible god is MANMADE, hence the reflection.

The supreme being, the creator of the universe, is supposed to be so spiritually evolved that "IT" is EGOFREE, thus cannot exhibit or reflect the emotion of wrath which is borne of the human egoic nature.The egofree state of being is the natural and pure state of the true GOD.We humans are evolving to be like GOD, which means that we are on our way to shedding the egoic nature that we have been living in and causing havoc, mayhem and suffering with for millenia.That EGOLESS state of being is what is more popularly known and misunderstood as "THE KINGDOM OF GOD or HEAVEN".

@jagunlabi ur understanding of term God which again u believe that God is nonexistent is one that evolves. The Christian God I know as he calls himself does not evolve in his words " I am YAHWEH (the LORD), I changeth not" I am here talking about this christian God and not ur own "madeup" God. He is perfect as always Matthew 5:48. The things he created "where perfect in the day they where created" Ezekiel 28:13–16 Genesis 1:31. so this is a situation of a perfect/good God creating/making Good and perfect things.
This topic is not for those who do not believe in the existence of God as the supreme being. cos if u don't believe in his existence it wouldn't bother u whether he is loving or wicked. this topic is not on the existence of God find some other forum for that, or otherwise, answer the Questions i asked, in the context I asked them. it is assumed that by participating u believe in the existence of the Christian God as he claims to be and what he calls himself God. Discussion is with the intent to oppose or propose the consistancy of God's words in the context of his love and his wrath.

Mudley313:

^^^well put. couldn't have put it any better. hitler's wrath is childs play in comparison to this  "all loving " bible god dat supposedly possess the powers to handle thing more lovingly n rationally if he decided

you mean the defintion/words of ancient stone aged tribal savages with little ethical consideration

@Mudley313 considering the Claims/words of God on his personality. He made all things. He is above all. He holds the final say. etc no other being is capable of starting a fire and fueling it for eternity cos no other being is eternal. only him can purnish/judge after this sort. He cannot be sued neither can his verdict be overridden unless he submits himself to judgment because of his love. Hitler is wicked cos in comparison with his limitation as man and mortal he committed so great evil. But God inspite of his greatness omnipotence and by comparison punishes mildly but justly. if he decides to be unjust wicked he cannot be brought to account or stopped cos he is higher than all. none can deliver from his hands. But his love keeps him in check. He is not controlled by any authority but by his self, his nature, his love. Who can say UNTO HIM WHAT DOESTH THOU?  God executes judgment in the earth as a manifestation of his love 1) his judgments are always just- he will by no means punish the innocent 2)God is patient, long suffering with the wicked in anticipation of his repentance/improvement 3) he takes vengeance on behalf of the righteous/innocent and frees him from the harrasment and torture of the evildoer wicked ones
u are looking at wrath from the human perspective and not from the overall perspective. Your fiercest anger/wrath in ur human ability is insubstantial/nothing to God in terms of his own ability. if he does the same thing u do he is even far to merciful cos he is far to mighty. His mildest mercy is far is far to milder than yours as u have said cos his might is far mightier than yours.

The supreme being, the creator of the universe, is supposed to be so spiritually evolved that "IT" is EGOFREE, thus cannot exhibit or reflect the emotion of wrath which is borne of the human egoic nature

says who?

God doesnt have to conform to your flawed analysis of who or what he is. Or what you think he should be.

tpiah:

says who?

God doesnt have to conform to your flawed analysis of who or what he is. Or what you think he should be.

Very well, then.If you like worshipping and following the jewish tyrant in the sky, you can have him.That is your call.But don't expect right thinking people to envy you.

^^ and you consider yourself right thinking because?

tpiah:

^^ and you consider yourself right thinking because?

. . . i can identify a sadistic and tyrannical being when i see one.I can point him out for what he is, and i can disassociate myself from him without fear.
Any more questions?

chinedumo:

@jagunlabi your understanding of term God which again u believe that God is nonexistent is one that evolves. The Christian God I know as he calls himself does not evolve in his words " I am YAHWEH (the LORD), I changeth not" I am here talking about this christian God and not your own "madeup" God. He is perfect as always Matthew 5:48. The things he created "where perfect in the day they where created" Ezekiel 28:13–16 Genesis 1:31. so this is a situation of a perfect/good God creating/making Good and perfect things.
This topic is not for those who do not believe in the existence of God as the supreme being. cos if u don't believe in his existence it wouldn't bother u whether he is loving or wicked. this topic is not on the existence of God find some other forum for that, or otherwise, answer the Questions i asked, in the context I asked them. it is assumed that by participating u believe in the existence of the Christian God as he claims to be and what he calls himself God. Discussion is with the intent to oppose or propose the consistancy of God's words in the context of his love and his wrath.

Well, chinedumo, i was not aware that you wanted only those who believe what you believe to contribute to the topic because you did not indicate that in the thread title.But when you put up a topic about God without adding specifics, you should expect people of other schools of thought to join in and make their own contributions, because GOD is not the exclusive property of a particular set of people.Your ideological structures built around GOD may be yours and yours alone, but the concept of a supreme creator itself is definitely not.

But, as i have stated my own opinion on the issue, based on my own ideological structures, i will now step aside for your fellow believers to take it from here.I am quite interested on what their views will be on this topic, really.

The True God did not create hell,i dont even believe it exist and he is Love and not hate.Satan is hate.

ROSSIKE:

Great stuff from jagunlabi. 

The idea of a ''wrathful'' Creator is truly ludicrous. As is the idea that the Source of Life gets ''jealous'', and has a uniquely ''chosen people'' on earth, on behalf of whom he instigates wars, atrocities, and crimes against humanity, as witnessed by the numerous Israeli atrocities committed against their neighbours in the ''old testament'', and attributed to the ''commandments of the Lord''.

The Israelis may have had a deity - Yahweh - who instigated them to do evil - but he was no God. The very suggestion is ludicrous, and the fact that Africans routinely buy into this claim without question is evidence of our degraded consciousness in the post colonial period.

Forgive me for being s.t.u.p.i.d., but is the God of the old testament different from the god of the new testament? In your attempt to re create god, you find yourself having to twist logic.
Is god love?
Genesis 6 - God drowned all living beings (his creations) save 8 humans and two of each animal.
Genesis 19 - Sodom and Gomorrah - God kills every living being there (innocent or not) Save Lot and his family (Lot's wife he turned into a pillar of salt.
Genesis 7 - God punishes the Egyptians for the sins of one "person".
There are a lot more examples of god not showing the love that he expects humans to show.
Before I get responses about Jesus coming to repeal (or whatever excuses people try to make for god) remember Matthew 5:17-19
" 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

The God of the old testament is the god of the news testament. The quotes attributed to Jesus by the author of Matthew makes it clear that this is the case.
My answer to the question posed is, therefore, yes.

babaearly:

The True God did not create hell,i dont even believe it exist and he is Love and not hate.Satan is hate.

Why do you say that satan is hate?That is definitely not supported by the biblical texts.Unless you want to make the claim that yahweh is satan in disguise. . .

@zodiac
Shouldn't you have quoted the OP's post, instead of rossike's?

@Jagunlabi,

I was responding to rossike's point about Yahweh.

tpiah:

says who?

God doesnt have to conform to your flawed analysis of who or what he is. Or what you think he should be.

how do u know God is a HE?
just wondering.

@jagunlabi,

i strongly agree with you even if others do not.

the supreme God that i know is beyond Human emotions.

It does not destroy sinners out of anger as the christians think.

its nature is love and love alone.

we are the ones that create our own problems by doing bad things to our neighbours and when the results of our actions come back to us we start saying that God is punishing us or that satan is tormenting us.

the law of cause and effect, which was what Jesus was talking about when he said that what you sow is what you reap is there for only one purpose and that is to teach us how to love. and finally the god of the old testament is the tribal god of the jews and not the supreme God

says who?

God doesnt have to conform to your flawed analysis of who or what he is. Or what you think he should be.

same way god doesn't have to conform to the flawed analysis of ancient jewish men(who couldn't even write but had to past down their fables orally) of who or what he/she is, or what they thin he should be (like vengeful, wrathfull, jealous, anger, n the ego of a tyranical maniac dat needs his ego fed by eternal praises n worship from mere mortals)

The idea of a ''wrathful'' Creator is truly ludicrous. As is the idea that the Source of Life gets ''jealous'', and has a uniquely ''chosen people'' on earth, on behalf of whom he instigates wars, atrocities, and crimes against humanity, as witnessed by the numerous Israeli atrocities committed against their neighbours in the ''old testament'', and attributed to the ''commandments of the Lord''.

any coincidence dat these uniquely "chosen people" are the people who wrote the books/came up wit the fables themselves

i have to admit . . . the devil is a smart dude!

davidylan:

i have to admit . . . the devil is a smart dude!

Ofcourse the devil is crazy smart.He disguised himself as yahweh, the father of jesus, and succeeded in deceiving billions of christians like you into accepting and worshiping him and his son as the supreme creators.What a sucker punch!

@ jagunlabi

Ofcourse the devil is crazy smart.He disguised himself as yahweh, the father of jesus, and succeeded in deceiving billions of christians like you into accepting and worshiping him and his son as the supreme creators.What a sucker punch! Grin

thanks for revealing what i have been hesistant in  saying.

you are very correct. yahweh and the devil are one and the same.

thank God that we are in the age of reasoning now. if you had made this statement during the Spanish inquisition you would have been killed immediately.

the supreme God really does not need our worship and It is not a jealous God.

like i said earlier, the  nature of God is love and love alone.

the problem we face is mankind's understanding of God. very few people have really bothered to ask God to reveal itself as it is to them. rather they rely on stories told by primitive people thousands of years ago.

tpiah:

what's the major difference between love and hate? Arent they two sides of the same coin? ie emotion

I've told many of you to think before you type.

Even humans can say they love each other one minute then hate themselves the next.

what's so hard to understand about this?

jagunlabi:

Good point!
While you are quite right that love and hate are two sides of the same coin, that coin represent MAN'S emotion borne out of the EGO.And this is why the bible god is nothing more and nothing less than just a reflection of man's egoic based emotions, which only goes to further buttress the arguement that the bible god is MANMADE, hence the reflection.

The supreme being, the creator of the universe, is supposed to be so spiritually evolved that "IT" is EGOFREE, thus can neither exhibit nor reflect the emotion of wrath or jealousy which is borne of the human egoic nature.The egofree state of being is the natural and pure state of the true GOD.We humans are evolving to be like GOD, which means that we are on our way to shedding the egoic nature that we have been living in and causing havoc, mayhem and suffering with for millenia.That EGOLESS state of being is what is more popularly known and misunderstood as "THE KINGDOM OF GOD or HEAVEN".

If @tpiah theory is true then @jagunlabi according to him hate and love are part of the same coin ,u jagunlabi concurred. you called it human emotion and ego. then thefore this egoless state u are talking about is the absence of both love and hate. so your opinion of the ideal/perfect state called Egolessness is is to do away with both hate and love and not just the hate. I wonder where u are getting to?

jagunlabi:

In religions, the socalled wrath of God happen to be the wrath of MEN borne out of their own prejudices.As a result, whatever goes against their prejudices faces THEIR wrath, which they then translate as GOD'S WRATH.
God is not wrathful, MAN is.And i am not talking about the bible god here, because the bible god is nothing else other than the mirror image of the ancient wrathful man of the desert stone age civilizations.

some people refer to natural disasters as "acts of God" or even the wrath of God. in light of the above statement. i wonder how natural disasters called "the wrath of God" is actually the wrath of man?

jagunlabi:

Well, chinedumo, i was not aware that you wanted only those who believe what you believe to contribute to the topic because you did not indicate that in the thread title.But when you put up a topic about God without adding specifics, you should expect people of other schools of thought to join in and make their own contributions, because GOD is not the exclusive property of a particular set of people.Your ideological structures built around GOD may be yours and yours alone, but the concept of a supreme creator itself is definitely not.

But, as i have stated my own opinion on the issue, based on my own ideological structures, i will now step aside for your fellow believers to take it from here.I am quite interested on what their views will be on this topic, really.

chinedumo:

Love is the nature of God. Agape love to be precise. But God himself does not condone evil but punishes evildoers. He according to his son Jesus has prepared a place where there will be groaning and gnashing of teeth eternally. The presence of the Son, a member of the Godhead on earth is actually a manifestation of the father's love John 3:16. The question is this- does God's love expel/exclude/override/prevent God's wrath? Are they compatible terms? Let's find out first whether God's own definition of his own kind of love contradict his definition and manifestation of his wrath? Secondly lets put into consideration views point of various sects like the Mohammedans who dispute that the Christian bible is full of contradictions and may site this too as example. The Jehovah witness who teach that a merciful/loving God is unable to punish mankind on this scale of severity etc.

the subject head those not give room for that, just an introductory title to the main course. there is not enough space for all that to be written in the title. If u read my introductory note i.e my first post i explained myself and gave necessary guideline one how i will like the discussion to take place. u didn't start with any of them. but thanks anyway for complying obediently and "EGOLESSLY" that is how any christian wit hthe love of God in his heart should behave. and for ur likes @jagunlabi this is a demonstration of egolessness