Okay. Let me do this in a way that you can grasp it.

Me: I told you that Jesus was the one spoken of in Proverbs 8:22
You: You said that Jesus was not the one spoken of in Proverbs 8:22. You said that it was Wisdom and not Jesus.You asked me to read verse one again for clarification.
Me: I said that verse one not only mentioned Wisdom but also Discernment. I asked you to choose between Wisdom and Discernment.
You: You chose Wisdom and got support from 2 or 3 other Trinitarians. You raised the issue of in the beginning
Me: I asked you if Wisdom was created before the beginning
You: You cited a Bible version that used at the beginning in Proverbs 8:23. You felt victorious in your heart and went on insisting over the phrase 'at the beginning'.
Me: I quoted Proverbs 8:27 and in that verse, it clearly stated that Jesus was made before the heavens.
You: probably search all the Bible versions and did not find that could twist the meaning to look fairly Trinitarians. Proverbs 8:27 nailed you and you and the other 2 or 3 commenters gave up.

Now, your focus is damage control by shifting the blame. I have always told you that Jesus is the one mentioned in Proverbs 8.
The pieces of evidence that Jesus was the one in the picture are numerous. Need I say he was beside the father, he was a master worker or God was pleased with him? The Bible also said that everything came through him. So, before the beginning mentioned in Genesis 1:1, Jesus had been created as the first of Jehovah's works. He is the only one created by Jehovah and raised up by Jehovah.

The Bible said that he is the first of the dead but Dairus daughter, the widow's son, Lazarus etc had already experienced the resurrection. In all, Jehovah used people to achieve that. In the case of Jesus, Jehovah himself raised him up. Subsequently, Jesus will raise the dead during the resurrection to the glory of Jehovah.

Mark 1:1 says the beginning of the good news ABOUT Jesus. But before Jesus was born, he said that the law and the prophets all directed toward him.

That gives you an understanding of the Bible's use of "the beginning".

Stop trying to circumvent, we all live and learn. Simply state that you learned something that you didn't know. No shame in learning.

solite3:
how did you come to the conclusion that it was Jesus but you said wisdom and discernment. This is contradiction!

I have always told you that the chapter referred to Jesus. Stop trying to negate my comments.

solite3:
so wisdom was speaking and she was a woman, I taught you said it was Christ.
Something tells me you are dolphinheart

[center][/center]

removetheturban:
Okay. Let me do this in a way that you can grasp it.

Me: I told you that Jesus was the one spoken of in Proverbs 8:22
You: You said that Jesus was not the one spoken of in Proverbs 8:22. You said that it was Wisdom and not Jesus.You asked me to read verse one again for clarification.
Me: I said that verse one not only mentioned Wisdom but also Discernment. I asked you to choose between Wisdom and Discernment.
You: You chose Wisdom and got support from 2 or 3 other Trinitarians. You raised the issue of in the beginning
Me: I asked you if Wisdom was created before the beginning
You: You cited a Bible version that used at the beginning in Proverbs 8:23. You felt victorious in your heart and went on insisting over the phrase 'at the beginning'.
Me: I quoted Proverbs 8:27 and in that verse, it clearly stated that Jesus was made before the heavens.
You: probably search all the Bible versions and did not find that could twist the meaning to look fairly Trinitarians. Proverbs 8:27 nailed you and you and the other 2 or 3 commenters gave up.

Now, your focus is damage control by shifting the blame. I have always told you that Jesus is the one mentioned in Proverbs 8.
The pieces of evidence that Jesus was the one in the picture are numerous. Need I say he was beside the father, he was a master worker or God was pleased with him? The Bible also said that everything came through him. So, before the beginning mentioned in Genesis 1:1, Jesus had been created as the first of Jehovah's works. He is the only one created by Jehovah and raised up by Jehovah.

The Bible said that he is the first of the dead but Dairus daughter, the widow's son, Lazarus etc had already experienced the resurrection. In all, Jehovah used people to achieve that. In the case of Jesus, Jehovah himself raised him up. Subsequently, Jesus will raise the dead during the resurrection to the glory of Jehovah.

Mark 1:1 says the beginning of the good news ABOUT Jesus. But before Jesus was born, he said that the law and the prophets all directed toward him.

That gives you an understanding of the Bible's use of "the beginning".

Stop trying to circumvent, we all live and learn. Simply state that you learned something that you didn't know. No shame in learning.

all what you said are just speculations no substance .
The bible said the person who was speaking was a 'she' even your PERverted NWT said it was an 'it'.
All your argument are empty until you address this issue.

]

quoter author=removetheturban post=66919789]I have always told you that the chapter referred to Jesus. Stop trying to negate my comments.

anybody can assume anything.
In the bible the speaker is a woman

Peacefullove:


The point is " ALL "

Does ALL things not include his Father ?

All things are referring to created things.

You believe everything that was made came through JESUS. That should also include JESUS himself if you also believe that JESUS is a created being.

According to your logic JEHOVAH made JESUS with JESUS.

Barristter07:
Hairyrapunzel





But other is not a spurious insertion at the Luke 13:2 you mentioned ?

In this next verse as well , OTHER is not a spurious insertion as well right ? Even though someone could claim it changed the meaning of the verse like you are doing.





Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. - 1 Corinthians 6:19 ESV

If you remove other, it becomes EVERY SIN [Every therefore includes sexual immorality and therefore class it together with sins outside the body ]

Is sexual immorality a sin outside the body or a sin against ones own body? NOT a sin outside the body!

Therefore " Other " here brings out the true intent of the original writer .

The same thing other at Colossians 1:16,17 does, bring out the true intent of the writer since its scriptural that Christ was created as well

Christ was created . he is called FirstBORN of all Creation . as well as the beginning of creation of God. Colossians 1:15, Revelation 3:14

Does this below makes sense to your?

John 1:3 ( a)All other things were made by him; and (b) apart from him was not any thing made that was made.

b contradicts a

a said he is part of creation but b said it apart from him it is not possible to create anything.

So how was Jesus made since apart from him NOTHING that was made was made?
The only logical conclusion is that Jesus is not among created things.

Job 9:8 Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.

removetheturban:
Okay. Let me do this in a way that you can grasp it.

Me: I told you that Jesus was the one spoken of in Proverbs 8:22
You: You said that Jesus was not the one spoken of in Proverbs 8:22. You said that it was Wisdom and not Jesus.You asked me to read verse one again for clarification.
Me: I said that verse one not only mentioned Wisdom but also Discernment. I asked you to choose between Wisdom and Discernment.
You: You chose Wisdom and got support from 2 or 3 other Trinitarians. You raised the issue of in the beginning
Me: I asked you if Wisdom was created before the beginning
You: You cited a Bible version that used at the beginning in Proverbs 8:23. You felt victorious in your heart and went on insisting over the phrase 'at the beginning'.
Me: I quoted Proverbs 8:27 and in that verse, it clearly stated that Jesus was made before the heavens.
You: probably search all the Bible versions and did not find that could twist the meaning to look fairly Trinitarians. Proverbs 8:27 nailed you and you and the other 2 or 3 commenters gave up.

Now, your focus is damage control by shifting the blame. I have always told you that Jesus is the one mentioned in Proverbs 8.
The pieces of evidence that Jesus was the one in the picture are numerous. Need I say he was beside the father, he was a master worker or God was pleased with him? The Bible also said that everything came through him. So, before the beginning mentioned in Genesis 1:1, Jesus had been created as the first of Jehovah's works. He is the only one created by Jehovah and raised up by Jehovah.

The Bible said that he is the first of the dead but Dairus daughter, the widow's son, Lazarus etc had already experienced the resurrection. In all, Jehovah used people to achieve that. In the case of Jesus, Jehovah himself raised him up. Subsequently, Jesus will raise the dead during the resurrection to the glory of Jehovah.

Mark 1:1 says the beginning of the good news ABOUT Jesus. But before Jesus was born, he said that the law and the prophets all directed toward him.

That gives you an understanding of the Bible's use of "the beginning".

Stop trying to circumvent, we all live and learn. Simply state that you learned something that you didn't know. No shame in learning.

“I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence;
I possess knowledge and discretion.

This verse clearly points out who is speaking in proverbs 8.

Proverbs 8:23 puts all this ur speculation, twisting, assumptions to bed. Lemme quote again

The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,[c][d]
before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was constantly[e] at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.

I was formed at d beginning. So every thing the follows 23, happend after wisdom was formed.not before. Stop deceiving urself

bloodofthelamb:
You believe everything that was made came through JESUS. That should also include JESUS himself if you also believe that JESUS is a created being.

According to your logic JEHOVAH made JESUS with JESUS.

Jesus was not created, dnt try to be smart by half

So, was wisdom formed before the beginning or after the beginning?

Ihateyoumod:



“I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence;
I possess knowledge and discretion.

This verse clearly points out who is speaking in proverbs 8.

Proverbs 8:23 puts all this ur speculation, twisting, assumptions to bed. Lemme quote again

The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,[c][d]
before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was constantly[e] at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.

I was formed at d beginning. So every thing the follows 23, happend after wisdom was formed.not before. Stop deceiving urself

removetheturban:
So, was wisdom formed before the beginning or after the beginning?

Address wisdom as a she eg was she formed before the beginning or after the beginning?

Wisdom said she was formed at the very beginning.
So it is at the very beginning. Bible did not say if she was formed before or after the beginning. Bible said she was formed at the very beginning.
Stop looking for what's not there.

removetheturban:
So, was wisdom formed before the beginning or after the beginning?

You say wisdom is a person yet you refuse to admit that she is a woman according to the bible. You want to force us to accept what's in your magazines?
We follow the Bible and not the speculation of some old men heading a new York based publishing company

Okay. Was the woman created before the beginning?

solite3:
] anybody can assume anything.
In the bible the speaker is a woman

I am trying to sound reasonable to you but you keep throwing insults. I am asking a simple question. Just answer me, please. Was the 'She'(according to you) created before the beginning?

solite3:
[center][/center] all what you said are just speculations no substance .
The bible said the person who was speaking was a 'she' even your PERverted NWT said it was an 'it'.
All your argument are empty until you address this issue.

solite3:
All things are referring to created things.

so All is not absolute ?

Apply the same logic when you see all things are made through him . doesn't mean all things in the absolute sense, He is excluded since he was created by His Father .

solite3:
there is no contradiction there.
Jesus being referred to as the beginning of God's creation means he is the source and ruler of it

Beginning is Never source .

A man said:

Joseph is the beginning of my procreative power .

Does it mean Joseph is source or the first of his Sons ?

Simply means Jesus is the first/beginning of creations of God.


Use your brain

solite3:
i will answer you if you can answer mine.
Why is God bearing the title God since other creatures also called gods?

Because God is a title that applies to someone having Authority .


Even the Christian Bible God called humans GODS because they also possess some authority over other creations.

So yes, the title God depict authority

God himself made moses GOD to Pharaoh, isn't it ? It means he should not fear, he now has authority over pharaoh



Now the title son of God given to Man, Angels and Jesus means what? How are they sons ? By sex or by virtue of creation ?

removetheturban:
I am trying to sound reasonable to you but you keep throwing insults. I am asking a simple question. Just answer me, please. Was the 'She'(according to you) created before the beginning?

Bible did not say she was created before the beginning. Bible said wisdom was formed at the very beginning.

Peacefullove:


Beginning is Never source .

A man said:

Joseph is the beginning of my procreative power .

Does it mean Joseph is source or the first of his Sons ?

Simply means Jesus is the first/beginning of creations of God.


Use your brain

Depends on the context. Use your brain.

Ihateyoumod:



There are sons of God BT there is only one begotten son of God.....pls dnt say nonsense cos u wanna win an argument....'begotten' not made

fear dey catch you ni . let's proceed

Isaac was also called the ONLY BEGOTTEN son of Abraham , and Abraham did this by virtue of sexual inter course . fine

How is Jesus begotten ? By Sex or Creation ?

I need answer guys

Hairyrapunzel:

Depends on the context. Use your brain.

Ignoramus

The context says beginning OF THE CREATION. Hahahaha

Beginning of what ?

Peacefullove:


fear dey catch you ni . let's proceed

Isaac was also called the ONLY BEGOTTEN son of Abraham , and Abraham did this by virtue of sexual inter course . fine

How is Jesus begotten ? By Sex or Creation ?

I need answer guys

Who told you begotten is by creation or sexual intercourse? Speculation speculation speculation.

Hairyrapunzel:


So why was Jesus called the one and only Son of God? Why was Jesus called the only begotten Son?

Kindly answer, I dey wait

Show me the passage where the son of God was described as a created being. Is it too had? I thought you consider yourself a bible student?
Bible student that the truth he holds today will be false tomorrow. Lol.
Bible passage you cannot show you are there making speculations

Losers always looking for excuse despite all that have been supplied by guys here.

The same bible never directly said Mountains are created , How do you arrive at they are created ?

Peacefullove:


Ignoramus

The context says beginning OF THE CREATION. Hahahaha

Beginning of what ?

See chief ignoramus o. Lol. Where did they say the son of God was a created being? Still waiting for the verse o 2days now.

Hairyrapunzel:



Who told you begotten is by creation or sexual intercourse? Speculation speculation speculation.

Okay let me open your brains

Isaac was called Abraham only begotten son ... How was Isaac begotten?

To help you: Begotten means to produce an offspring.

Now Tell us How Jesus was Produced as well ?

Hairyrapunzel:


See chief ignoramus o. Lol. Where did they say the son of God was a created being? Still waiting for the verse o 2days now.

You are very dull not to see it already . using your logic

Show me the verse that said Mountains were created ?

Am waiting. Don't deduce, I need a direct statement

Peacefullove:


Kindly answer, I dey wait



Losers always looking for excuse despite all that have been supplied by guys here.

The same bible never directly said Mountains are created , How do you arrive at they are created ?

Mountains are important on the earth's surface. Mountain isn't the son of God. Tell me where they said the Son of God was a created being in the Bible. At least I can show you where bible said he created all things and he was before all things. And I can also show you where God said he created all things alone by himself.
Show me where they said the son of God was a created being in the Bible.
At least I know of a verse you people tried to alter but it didn't work.
Waiting for the verse

Hairyrapunzel:


Mountains are important on the earth's surface. Mountain isn't the son of God. Tell me where they said the Son of God was a created being in the Bible. At least I can show you where bible said he created all things and he was before all things. And I can also show you where God said he created all things alone by himself.
Show me where they said the son of God was a created being in the Bible.
At least I know of a verse you people tried to alter but it didn't work.
Waiting for the verse

So no verse that said Mountains were Created ?

You can't show any right ?

The way am laughing here. As in am really enjoying this

Ihateyoumod:

Jesus was not created, dnt try to be smart by half

I never agreed Jesus was created. I am trying to expose the OP's falsehood.

Hairyrapunzel:


If what they teach is true they wouldn't need to alter the Bible to suit their doctrines.
Therefore they teach lies. You say what you have is the truth, yet you have to change what's written in the Bible so as to fit what's in your magazines

If I say Yusuf is a son of Buhari, you will know why right ?

If you can't answer why Adam, Angels and Jesus are called Son of God in your Bible , then you must be very silly to accuse them that what they teach is False.

Give me proof Its false, by telling me why Adam , Angels and Jesus are called Son of God ? Why the Father is never addressed as Son of anyone?

It's getting logical, and this is where all religious brainwashing are exposed .

You keep running since , the question will keep following you everywhere until you answer.

Peacefullove:


You are very dull not to see it already . using your logic

Show me the verse that said Mountains were created ?

Am waiting. Don't deduce, I need a direct statement

The question did not contain mountains. Mountains don't mean anything in my doctrine. Mountain isn't Jesus and Jesus isn't mountain. The Bible was clear on the position of Jesus Christ.
I don't deal on speculations. Give me a verse. And we will discuss