I often hear this when Ramadan approach that Allah open the gate of heaven and close the gate of hell and the devils are chained or locked(this can be found in the Hadiths).

Two questions on this,

1. If Allah was able to chain the devils, why can't he chain them permanently and does these devils escape themselves?

2. If the devil was chained, does this means evil, sins are stopped during Ramadan period since the devil is the misleader?

These are common questions isn't?.


You simply need tawil (interpretation) for better comprehension. The hadith doesn't in anyway meant to mean sins can not be committed. Rather means they are reduced and our soul elevated I:e close to God.

In another word, not all devils are chained but the strongest of them. We still commit sin due to bad behaviors and evil of our soul. We see some argue in the masjid over silly things like food during iftar. Some argue over misplaced of their shoes and they wanna pick up a fight. These are mini stuff. We are not masoom

Some may interpret "chain" literally but I don't buy that actually. It is actually means coercively restrained.

And Allah knows best

Empiree:
These are coming questions isn't?.


You simply need tawil (interpretation) for better comprehension. The hadith doesn't in anyway meant to mean sins can not be committed. Rather means they are reduced and our soul elevated I:e close to God.

In another word, not all devils are chained but the strongest of them. We still commit sin due to bad behaviors and evil of our soul. We see some argue in the masjid over silly things like food during iftar. Some argue over misplaced of their shoes and they wanna pick up a fight. These are mini stuff. We are not masoom

Some may interpret "chain" literally but I don't buy that actually. It is actually means coercively restrained.

And Allah knows best

You also don't buy the "heaven gate will open and hell gate will close" literally right?

So why are some devil chained and some left alone, why can't Allah chain all devil permanently? Are they later released or escape?

Where does evil in human souls came from?

tintingz:
You also don't buy the "heaven gate will open and hell gate will close" literally right?

like the gate made by your welders mtcheew

Angels don't need to literally open physical gates. Imagine if they could travel thousands of miles in a blink, what the heck they gonna open physical gates for?. Makes sense?

So why are some devil chained and some left alone, why can't Allah chain all devil permanently? Are they later released or escape?

I don't need to wait for Fatwa to answer this. It is simple. As I said earlier, none us masoom except Allah and His messangers. Even messangers level masoom is restricted. They did not make mistakes with respect to the message of tawhid they brought. So therefore, average humans can never be masoom. We are bound to err or prone to sin. Otherwise there won't be difference btw Creator and creation. Even devils themselves make mistakes

Where does evil in human souls came from?

infused in us right in the womb

Empiree:
like the gate made by your welders mtcheew

There are heavenly welders.

Angels don't need to literally open physical gates. Imagine if they could travel thousands of miles in a blink, what the heck they gonna open physical gates for?. Makes sense?

How do you know this, have you been to heaven and hell gates before?

I don't need to wait for Fatwa to answer this. It is simple. As I said earlier, none is masoom except Allah and His messangers. Even messangers level masoom is restricted. They did not make mistakes with respect to the message of tawhid they brought. So therefore, average humans can never be masoom. We are bound to err or prove to sin. Otherwise there won't be difference btw Creator and creation. Even � devils themselves make mistakes

You're telling me that even if Allah chain all the devil permanently humans will still err, sin?

And you haven't answer the question, are these chained-devils later released or escape?

infused in us right in the womb

By who?

tintingz:
I often hear this when Ramadan approach that Allah open the gate of heaven and close the gate of hell and the devils are chained or locked(this can be found in the Hadiths).

Two questions to this,

1. If Allah is able to chain the devils, why can't he chain them permanently and does these devils escape themselves?

2. If the devil is chained, does this means evil, sins are stopped during Ramadan period since the devil is the misleader?

Go ahead and scoff at faith and hereafter.....soon will your sorry eyes be opened, and they will see a terrible reality.

Soofi Vs freethinker......

tintingz:
How do you know this, have you been to heaven and hell gates before?

You're telling me that even if Allah chain all the devil permanently humans will still err, sin?

Sins and crime continue to take place in the month all around the world. Does this hadith mean the deviations in this month would not count? Does it mean that every sin in this month would be forgiven or does it mean that people cannot commit sin in this month?. The hadith explains some key concepts of Ramadan in an allegorical manner as I have alleged earlier. If we consider the language as symbolic, the hadith offers a logical and viable rationale for developing a strong conviction and appreciation of the Prophetic wisdom.


We can infer from the opening of the gates of heavens to mean that God makes our journey to the heavenly state of utmost peace and happiness effortless and accessible under His divine grace in the month of Ramadan. During this month believers have a month long opportunity to change their life style and environment to attain a higher state of self-consciousness.

And you haven't answer the question, are these chained-devils later released or escape?

Chaining the devils means that God makes it easier in this month of Ramadan for people to control their behavior in the wake of all temptations, physical, social and spiritual. In a moment of high self-consciousness an individual would ensure that he or she does not commit any act that would either defy the divine or reject his mercy.

By who?

By Creator's Command

adejaresalami1:

Soofi Vs freethinker......

أليس لديك احساس؟

Empiree:
Sins and crime continue to take place in the month all around the world. Does this hadith mean the deviations in this month would not count? Does it mean that every sin in this month would be forgiven or does it mean that people cannot commit sin in this month?. The hadith explains some key concepts of Ramadan in an allegorical manner as I have alleged earlier. If we consider the language as symbolic, the hadith offers a logical and viable rationale for developing a strong conviction and appreciation of the Prophetic wisdom.


We can infer from the opening of the gates of heavens to mean that God makes our journey to the heavenly state of utmost peace and happiness effortless and accessible under His divine grace in the month of Ramadan. During this month believers have a month long opportunity to change their life style and environment to attain a higher state of self-consciousness.


Chaining the devils means that God makes it easier in this month of Ramadan for people to control their behavior in the wake of all temptations, physical, social and spiritual. In a moment of high self-consciousness an individual would ensure that he or she does not commit any act that would either defy the divine or reject his mercy.

You know what I enjoy about you, when you see a question against your holy transcript and you want to escape from it you use the word "allegorical" to escape. We don't even know words that are literal and allegorical anymore, you're the one doing the mouth piece to explain and know which is allegorical/metaphorical and literal.

Ok, let's continue since you agree sins will continue even when Allah chain all the devils, then Satan is not the problem or is he? So where does evil cometh?

I think you almost answer the question below.

By Creator's Command

Allah infuse evil in humans?

I just want to be clear.

adejaresalami1:
Go ahead and scoff at faith and hereafter.....soon will your sorry eyes be opened, and they will see a terrible reality.

Soofi Vs freethinker......

The terrible reality of a Christian and Jew about you is that you will be thrown inside hell for eternity.

I think that's clear.

tintingz:
You know what I enjoy about you, when you see a question against your holy transcript and you want to escape from it you use the word "allegorical" to escape. We don't even know words that are literal and allegorical anymore, you're the one doing the mouth piece to explain and know which is allegorical/metaphorical and literal.

Ok, let's continue since you agree sins will continue even when Allah chain all the devils, then Satan is not the problem or is he? So where does evil cometh?

too hard to counter, abi Fact is, when it comes to religious text, we first all take it word for word I:e that's literal meaning until evidence suggests otherwise. So it is normal to assume literal interpretation that Angels actually open gates of hell in the lifeafter. But giving to account the activities of Angels as we know them, they do not need to take aircraft from Nigeria to America. They can be in America in a blink. Distance means nothing to them. You can check out for details on Seeing Angels thread by Emekaraj. Ikupakuti made brilliant contributions about this. We also see evidence in the time of Nabi Sulaimon(ra) activities of Jinn travelled to bring chair of Queens in a blink. If jinn could do this, Angels who are more powerfu, why would they need to physically open the gate?. These attributes used in the Qur'an and Hadith are pretty much for human comprehension purposes. They mean nothing in spiritual realm.

I think you almost answer the question below.


Allah infuse evil in humans?

I just want to be clear.

Well, since you have prior knowledge about Islam, it will be irrational arguing over this. You know better unless you chose to mock.

Anyways, ruh is pure at outstart when it is infused in the body. We human corrupt our ruh by doing illegal and sinful activities.

Sins and crime continue to take place in the month all around the world. Does this hadith mean the deviations in this month would not count? Does it mean that every sin in this month would be forgiven or does it mean that people cannot commit sin in this month?. The hadith explains some key concepts of Ramadan in an allegorical manner as I have alleged earlier. If we consider the language as symbolic, the hadith offers a logical and viable rationale for developing a strong conviction and appreciation of the Prophetic wisdom.


We can infer from the opening of the gates of heavens to mean that God makes our journey to the heavenly state of utmost peace and happiness effortless and accessible under His divine grace in the month of Ramadan. During this month believers have a month long opportunity to change their life style and environment to attain a higher state of self-consciousness.



Chaining the devils means that God makes it easier in this month of Ramadan for people to control their behavior in the wake of all temptations, physical, social and spiritual. In a moment of high self-consciousness an individual would ensure that he or she does not commit any act that would either defy the divine or reject his mercy.



By Creator's Command

Empiree:



أليس لديك احساس؟

. كن حذرا يا سيدي

Empiree:
too hard to counter, abi Fact is, when it comes to religious text, we first all take it word for word I:e that's literal meaning until evidence suggests otherwise. So it is normal to assume literal interpretation that Angels actually open gates of hell in the lifeafter. But giving to account the activities of Angels as we know them, they do not need to take aircraft from Nigeria to America. They can be in America in a blink. Distance means nothing to them. You can check out for details on Seeing Angels thread by Emekaraj. Ikupakuti made brilliant contributions about this. We also see evidence in the time of Nabi Sulaimon(ra) activities of Jinn travelled to bring chair of Queens in a blink. If jinn could do this, Angels who are more powerfu, why would they need to physically open the gate?. These attributes used in the Qur'an and Hadith are pretty much for human comprehension purposes. They mean nothing in spiritual realm.

Hard to counter? The problem is the more you're making your holy transcript allegorical the more fictional it sound, you're fuelling my position that the Quran and Hadiths are filled with myths. This is the reason some Muslim sect don't follow your ideas of "allegory".

Well, since you have prior knowledge about Islam, it will be irrational arguing over this. You know better unless you chose to mock.

Anyways, ruh is pure at outstart when it is infused in the body. We human corrupt our ruh by doing illegal and sinful activities.

You're just beating round the bush. Where does evil cometh? From Allah or who?

If Allah didn't create evil, Satan didn't cause evil then Satan is not the problem, humans created evil themselves or by another unknown higher agent and this makes Allah "perfection" questionable including the story of Adam.

adejaresalami1:

. كن حذرا يا سيدي

I don't know what's your problem with me

tintingz:
Hard to counter? The problem is the more you're making your holy transcript allegorical the more fictional it sound, you're fuelling my position that the Quran and Hadiths are filled with myths. This is the reason some Muslim sect don't follow your ideas of "allegory".

You're just beating round the bush. Where does evil cometh? From Allah or who?

If Allah didn't create evil, Satan didn't cause evil then Satan is not the problem, humans created evil themselves or by another unknown higher agent and this makes Allah "perfection" questionable including the story of Adam.

Your obsession with islam is proof enough that is the truth

Allah has sealed your heart and cursed you to spend your days obsessed with it.

A man who spends his days ranting at something imaginary would be called insane. Therefore, you by your own criteria, are an insane man.

sambaki:


Your obsession with islam is proof enough that is the truth

Allah has sealed your heart and cursed you to spend your days obsessed with it.

A man who spends his days ranting at something imaginary would be called insane. Therefore, you by your own criteria, are an insane man.

Ok, thanks for the non sequitur and ad hominem.

Can you now address the OP properly?

Islam was created by Satan himself. John 10:10 The devil comes to kill, to steal and to destroy, thats what you see in Islam, killings , destruction etc. Jesus is Lord.

oldbende:
Islam was created by Satan himself. John 10:10 The devil comes to kill, to steal and to destroy, thats what you see in Islam, killings , destruction etc. Jesus is Lord.

In the Bible we can read your God planning with the devil, infact most of the killings, atrocities in the Bible were done by your God and his foot soldiers. Let's not even talk about the crusaders that kill for your God.

Don't think your religion is pure, it's not, Islam and Christianity are two sides of a coin.

Kindly don't derail this thread with your religious bigotry.

Still a valid question.

- Why can't the devil be chained permanently and how did they escape?

- Does evil stop during that period, if no, why chain the devil?

tintingz:
Still a valid question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aARSJLOf8I4

tintingz:
Ok, let's continue since you agree sins will continue even when Allah chain all the devils, then Satan is not the problem or is he? So where does evil cometh?


Allah infuse evil in humans?

I just want to be clear.

Free will and human desire.

IMAliyu:

Free will and human desire.

Who gave it to Humans?

tintingz:
Who gave it to Humans?

God.
In order for the choice of good to exist the choice of evil needs to exist.

IMAliyu:

God.
In order for the choice of good to exist the choice of evil needs to exist.

Ok, God hate evil and will punish anyone for it right?

tintingz:
Ok, God hate evil and will punish anyone for it right?

essentially yes, but to be more specific those that don't repent.

IMAliyu:
essentially yes, but to be more specific those that don't repent.

Ok, so basically Satan is not the evil one here, it's the freewill. Then why does the Quran curse Satan here and there?

Ok let's go back to long before Allah created all, does he know freewill will come with evil?

tintingz:
Ok, so basically Satan is not the evil one here, it's the freewill. Then why does the Quran curse Satan here and there?

Ok let's go back to long before Allah created all, does he know freewill will come with evil?

Because Satan disobeyed a direct command from God, persuaded Adam and Hauwa/Eve to eat from the forbidden tree and He has promised to lead humanity astray.
And has refused to repent or ask God for forgiveness for his arrogance. This should sum up the reason why Satan is constantly cursed in the Qur'an.
As for the second question my answer would be Yes.

IMAliyu:

Because Satan disobeyed a direct command from God, persuaded Adam and Hauwa/Eve to eat from the forbidden tree and He has promised to lead humanity astray.
And has refused to repent or ask God for forgiveness for his arrogance. This should sum up the reason why Satan is constantly cursed in the Qur'an.
As for the second question my answer would be Yes.

Ok, I haven't seen what Satan did wrong, Allah knew beforehand this is what will happen, he planned it, he has the power to change everything from onset, why is he cursing Satan when he(Satan) is only following what Allah has programmed him to do?

Allah hate evil, he knew the outcome of freewill, he infused evil in it yet he will punish humans for what he caused. Testing and repenting are meaningless as long as God is omniscient and omnipotent.

Allah created all, he's the creator evil except evil is independent from his creation then this contradict Allah being the creator of All.

tintingz:


Ok, I haven't seen what Satan did wrong, Allah knew beforehand this is what will happen, he planned it, he has the power to change everything from onset, why is he cursing Satan when he(Satan) is only following what Allah has programmed him to do?

Starting to sound like a Satanist rather than an atheist here mate. Lol
Yes God knows and created all possibilities, but God doesn't force any choice onto anyone. Satan chose his path and has to deal with the consequences.

Allah hate evil, he knew the outcome of freewill, he infused evil in it yet he will punish humans for what he caused. Testing and repenting are meaningless as long as God is omniscient and omnipotent.

The thing here is you do Good you get the results of your deeds, you do evil you get the results of your deeds (which is punishment) if you don't repent. Because humans are not perfect creations (at least not in this sense) we often sin/do bad things. The idea here is to do our very best to stick with the good no matter the situation or happenings, even if we do sin/evil to always turn away from it.
Tests are just the challenges, hardship or unfortunate circumstances in life that God makes everyone goes through.

Allah created all, he's the creator evil except evil is independent from his creation then this contradict Allah being the creator of All.

Nope Allah is the creator of everything including that which we may consider as evil.
I have the personal take that God is ambivalent in his creations (heaven/hell, life/death, peace/conflict, order/chaos pleasure/punishment etc.) rather than the commonly believed benevolence. The thing here is Good exist and Evil exist and for which ever you choose an outcome exists for that, but strive for the good and run away from the evil.

IMAliyu:

Starting to sound like a Satanist rather than an atheist here mate. Lol

I'm not a Satanist, I'm having a reductio ad absurdum discussion with you.

Yes God knows and created all possibilities, but God doesn't force any choice onto anyone. Satan chose his path and has to deal with the consequences.

But God forced his plan on us right?

Satan's path has been destined by God or God would have stopped Satan from onset or better still not create Satan if he's omnipotent, omniscient and omni-benevolent.

Through out the Quran Allah talked about how he hate evil yet he couldn't prevent it from happening, I mean he knew these things will happen long before creation, so what is he angry about?

The thing here is you do Good you get the results of your deeds, you do evil you get the results of your deeds (which is punishment) if you don't repent. Because humans are not perfect creations (at least not in this sense) we often sin/do bad things. The idea here is to do our very best to stick with the good no matter the situation or happenings, even if we do sin/evil to always turn away from it.
Tests are just the challenges, hardship or unfortunate circumstances in life that God makes everyone goes through.

You still don't get the question, did Allah long before creation knew the outcome of everything? If yes why did go ahead with it?

Nope Allah is the creator of everything including that which we may consider as evil.
I have the personal take that God is ambivalent in his creations (heaven/hell, life/death, peace/conflict, order/chaos pleasure/punishment etc.) rather than the commonly believed benevolence. The thing here is Good exist and Evil exist and for which ever you choose an outcome exists for that, but strive for the good and run away from the evil.

God created evil, that's all what I need to know.

Can we say God is evil too?

tintingz:
I'm not a Satanist, I'm having a reductio ad absurdum discussion with you.

Ok, playing "devil's advocate."

But God forced his plan on us right?

Satan's path has been destined by God or God would have stopped Satan from onset or better still not create Satan if he's omnipotent, omniscient and omni-benevolent.

Through out the Quran Allah talked about how he hate evil yet he couldn't prevent it from happening, I mean he knew these things will happen long before creation, so what is he angry about?

If by plan you mean existence it self then Yes.
The story of Satan to me is a display and warning about irredeemable pride and arrogance. Yes, God could prevent all evil doing in theory, but chooses not to because "Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves."
The same way you would get angry when someone you know or love (in this case created) intentional makes bad life choices.

You still don't get the question, did Allah long before creation knew the outcome of everything? If yes why did go ahead with it?

I've hit the limits of my current knowledge here.

God created evil, that's all what I need to know.

Can we say God is evil too?

Evil=malevolent (wanting and causing nothing, but suffering, pain and destruction) my answer is No.

IMAliyu:

Ok, playing "devil's advocate."

Nope, more like showing you how absurd your beliefs are.

If by plan you mean existence it self then Yes.
The story of Satan to me is a display and warning about irredeemable pride and arrogance. Yes, God could prevent all evil doing in theory, but chooses not to because [s]"Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves."[/s]
The same way you would get angry when someone you know or love (in this case created) intentional makes bad life choices.

I've hit the limits of my current knowledge here.

Evil=malevolent (wanting and causing nothing, but suffering, pain and destruction) my answer is No.

Is this not the definition of "malevolent"? Why should Allah wait for the people to change their ways when he already knew their end and planned their end long before creation, does this even make logical sense? Except Allah is not all-knowing then we will agree on this.

Ok, let's rephrase the premises.

- God is omnipotent, meaning he has the power to do anything.

- God is omniscient, meaning he could see everything even the future long before creation.

- God is the creator, he created everything.

- God who's the planner planned everything.

- God is omni-benevolent meaning he's all-good.

Now, God who can foresee the future knew the outcome of freewill and evil yet he created it. If this is not "malevolent" what other word do we call this?

You can't tell me your God created evil but not malevolent, that's bias and illogical!

If God is able to stop evil but not willing then he must be malevolent.