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| Four Noble Truths by PastorAIO: 9:21am On Jul 07, 2010 |
The Four Noble Truthshttp://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/fourtruths.html 1. Noble Truth of Sufferinghttp://www.buddhamind.info/leftside/under/buddha/4truths.htm Let me now rephrase the four Noble Truths in such a manner that will ring a bell with anyone familiar with christian teachings. 1. Do not lay up for yourself earthly treasure that will decompose or get stolen. All things on earth are subject to transition, things come and go, either they break, they get stolen, they wear down or what ever, they will pass away. This is what causes sorrows in human beings. The things we hold dear are so ephemeral. Matt 6: 19 2. Second Noble Truth. The Cause. We are attached to these transitory things because we are born of Sarx. Sarx is sensuality, our experience is dominated by our senses. It fills us with appetites and desires for sensual stimulation. It fills us with fears that the needs of our appetites might not be met. 3. Third Noble Truth. Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. Matt 19: 21 In other words free yourself from the influence of Sarx, ie the flesh and the sense impressions and the appetites that drive us from one dissatifying activity to another. Like having a itch but no matter how much you scratch you can never assuage the irritation. Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. Luke 12:33 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: Matt 6:20 3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3 4. Fourth Noble Truth. The path to the cessation of suffering, also know as the Middle Path is what I would call in a nutshell, Walking in righteousness. This is not something that can be done by living according to a rule book but rather by being guided by one's spirit. Without the awakening of the spirit it will be impossible. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by Jenwitemi(m): 9:36am On Jul 07, 2010 |
To capture all the 4 noble truths and wrap them into one noble truth; The EGO is the source of all sufferings. Unless man transcends the EGO, he will forever live in suffering. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by mrmayor(m): 9:43am On Jul 07, 2010 |
[size=14pt]6. Noble Truth. IGNORANCE IS BLISS. UNLESS MAN, ESPECIALLY [ BLACK MAN] EMANCIPATES HIMSELF FROM IGNORANCE HE IS DOOMED. [/size] |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by Jenwitemi(m): 9:48am On Jul 07, 2010 |
mrmayor:That can only happen if man(especially black man) frees himself of the EGO. Ignorance is one of the many tools used by the EGO to keep us subjugated to it, and thus, keep us in the grip of perpetual self-created hell. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by PastorAIO: 10:37am On Jul 07, 2010 |
The SEVENTH NOBLE TRUTH . . . If you can't speak in tongues and demonstrate to everyone in your church how spirit filled you are, and then diligently pay your tithe then you'll miss out on God's blessings of material prosperity. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by ilosiwaju: 1:59pm On Jul 07, 2010 |
Pastor AIO:  |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by DeepSight(m): 3:24pm On Jul 07, 2010 |
Doctrine @ Pastor. Perhaps persons who did not view our exchanges in the other thread may not grasp your motivation for opening this discussion. Underlying every religion is a teaching of love and detachment from worldly things. This cuts across board. However it seems to me that we have a fundamental difference of understanding in terms of the word "doctrine" - or perhaps we just use the word in different senses. You seem to use it to refer to all and any teachings which may include such broad and generalist teachings such as the universal commandment of love. That is fair enough. I do not however, view the adjuration towards love as a doctrine - not in the particular sense i refer to. By doctrine, i refer to specific sets of canonical revelations which are central to the framework of teachings set up by a Religious School of thought. These doctrines, i might add, are very specific sets of cannonical teachings. To crystallize this, the Encarta Dictionary gives as one of its definitions of the word "doctrine" - the following - a body of ideas, particularly in religion, taught to people as truthful or correct. So you see this is the sense in which I refer to “doctrines” – specific sets of canonical ideas revealed and conveyed as the truth upon which an entire belief system emerges. In this particular context therefore, “love thy neighbour” is not a doctrine – but is simply a commandment or an adjuration. On the other hand, a revealed canonical set such as the idea of Singular Triad as a deity is doctrinal. To underscore the point in common language I am sure that you hear the word “doctrine” used more with reference to such specific sets of canonical ideas, than in relation to broad adjurations of love or forgiveness. Thus you hear of “the doctrine of the Holy Trinity,” but scarcely hear of the “doctrine” of love or forgiveness. I hope you get what I am getting at. The Trinity is a specific revelatory body of ideas which has become the basis for a given line of religious thought. It is for this reason that your continuous attempt to stir up the broad ideas of human love and brotherliness and eschewing worldliness as evidence of staggering similarities in doctrine will sit uncomfortably with me. Let me draw a very rough and hurried table. Below we see that the principle of love is common to these religions. But the doctrinal beliefs rooted in cannon and revelation are very unique to each. The differences in the doctrinal beliefs, are accordingly, staggering. Religion: Xtianity Islam Buddhism Principle: Love Love Love Doctrines: Trinity One God AGNOSTIC Christ’s sacrifice Submission Meditation Remission of Sins Sets of Prayer Reincarnation Now the foregoing is only a very rough and hurried chart. But it can easily be seen that the doctrines of Christianity which centre around Christ’s sacrifice and remission of sins, justification by faith and grace, the deity of Christ ALL BEAR ZERO SIMILARITY TO ISLAMIC, BUDDHIST OR HINDU IDEAS. INDEED SUCH IDEAS ARE DENOUNCED AS FALSE BY ISLAM AND UTTERLY NON-COGNISED IN THE BUDDHIST AND HINDU WORLDVIEWS. So it seems to me rather simplistic to assert as you have done, that the teaching of love and detachment from the world is enough to deduce a staggering doctrinal similarity between Christianity and Buddhism for example, as your enunciation of the four noble truths attempts to do. Now what is crucial for me is that doctrine perforce evokes the ideas of a religion and its view of all existence. Christianity is centred around the idea of the existence of a supreme God and active worship of that supreme God. Pure Buddhism, by contrast, is silent on the question of God, and does not require recognition of, or any apprehension of God whatsoever. At the outset one can see that the worldviews are thus radically different. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by PastorAIO: 4:30pm On Jul 07, 2010 |
Actually this is the reason why I started this thread. Cos you said the following: ^^^ E pain me say na derailment of thread i for like ask Pastor wetin dem dey call THE FOUR NOBLE TRUTHS for Buddhism and whether na love wantintin THE FOUR NOBLE TRUTHS dey address, or whether na suffering, rebirth and nirvana. I laugh.https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=369330.msg6342790#msg6342790 I see nothing here about doctrines or principles. I hadn't made any mention of love so I don't know why you sought to refute that the 4 noble truths had anything to do with love in the first place. You shouldn't laugh. Only a mad man laughs when there is no joke. I'm happy to discuss this further with you, but could you please curb your penchant for longassed posts. I don't mean to be rude, but life is kinda hectic these days and so I just peep into NL whenever I get a chance and quickly respond if there is something I wanna respond to. I can't really be reading and trying to make sense of long posts for 20 minutes. I understand doctrine to mean a teaching. What is taught is doctrine. You have obviously forgotten what I have repeatedly said on NL: Religion is, to me, first and foremost a Practice. Ideologies and concepts are second place. Religion is about what you do and not about what you think. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by DeepSight(m): 4:42pm On Jul 07, 2010 |
I think it would be apt to say that Life is a practice: or that living should be guided by virtuous practices. But Religion, as it is and has developed, is not practice alone. Not even "first and foremost" i dare say. Religion consists of ideas, beliefs, doctrines, practices and the whole cabana. The truth is that if the 'practice' you refer to was the leading element, then there would not be different religions in the first place. It emerges that BELIEFS are actually the leading element in defining religions in this retarded world. Living, and right living by contrast, can and should come without the baggage of the nuances of religious dogma. It is therefore entirely inappropriate to suggest that Religion consists principally of what should be the virtuous practices of people. If you would wake up and smell the coffee, religion actually has a truck load of baggage which extends into all sorts of odd dogma and bizzarre beliefs and practices. So your surmise regarding religious similarities is therefore inescapably flawed to the extent that you seek to brand religion as the practices primarily. That is a false, or incomplete premise. The plain fact remains that people are divided along religious lines based mainly on differences in BELIEFS. And there are grave differences in those beliefs. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by ilosiwaju: 5:11pm On Jul 07, 2010 |
Deep Sight:Let me help them out, I've been religiously following the DeepSight, Pastor, Nuclearboy and Madmax duel. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-369330.0.html Game on please. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by DeepSight(m): 5:27pm On Jul 07, 2010 |
I don't see it as a duel. Its just a mutual quest for understanding the perspectives of one another. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by ilosiwaju: 6:33pm On Jul 07, 2010 |
Deep Sight:Point taken. How you dey? |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by dolu2007(m): 7:46am On Jul 08, 2010 |
The Excellency of all truths is that Jesus died and rose again to redeem mankind. He's the way, the Truth and the Life. No man goes to the father but through him. Thats the GOSPEL truth |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by ilosiwaju: 10:41am On Jul 08, 2010 |
dolu2007:How do you know this? A. You inherited christianity from your parents. B. The bible which is perfect told you so. C. You dont believe it but its better to pretend you do. Which one? |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by PastorAIO: 8:53am On Jul 09, 2010 |
dolu2007: Join the queue. We can call this the[b] Eight Noble truth[/b]. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by PastorAIO: 9:25am On Jul 09, 2010 |
Deep Sight: please sir, where did I say that 'Religion consists principally of what should be the virtuous practices of people'. I think it would be apt to say that Life is a practice: or that living should be guided by virtuous practices. 1) Life is not a practice. Life is Life, in which one may decide to practice or not practice various things.
every ideology is based on an idea whether it be political ideology, business ideology etc. What you believe or accept as an idea then informs your behaviour. If I believe that the goal of a firm is to maximise profit then that will affect how I run my firm. Practice is striving to live in accordance with an ideology. If I believe that there is an intrinsic Right way that the world should be, rather than just a random arbitrariness, then I will strive to live in accord with this Rightness. All traditional religions have this. If a diagnoses of the reason why things are out of harmony with the right suggests that being too attached to sense impressions is at the root of the problem then Practice will involve detaching oneself from these sense objects. All religions offer this diagnoses and hence practice detachment. It emerges that BELIEFS are actually the leading element in defining religions in this retarded world.Beliefs are at the basis of a lot of all of our activities. Living, and right living by contrast, can and should come without the baggage of the nuances of religious dogma.Wow, you've said something that I almost totally agree with. It Can come without dogma, but I'm not sure why it Should come without dogma. Why the imperative? |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by DeepSight(m): 9:43am On Jul 09, 2010 |
Pastor AIO: I did not say that you said so. If you read my post you will see that the said you suggested so. And without a doubt you did. For you stated - Pastor AIO: Am I to presume that you imagine Religion to consist for you of evil practices? Clearly not. The only reasonable inference therefore is that as you have said, religion for you should be a (virtuous) practice. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by PastorAIO: 9:55am On Jul 09, 2010 |
I think we ought to leave the virtuous bit out. Not that it is offensive but when you start adding and qualifying things then slowly the additions become cumulative and before we know it you've got me saying things that I never said or meant. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by DeepSight(m): 10:01am On Jul 09, 2010 |
Ah ahn, Pastor you are reverting to your deliberately vague ways. . . what quarrel can you possibly have with "virtue"? Everything you have said and adduced from the four noble truths centres around virtue anyway. . . And when you say that religion is a practice for you. . .there is no doubt that you have virtue in mind. . .so why shy away from it? My fear is that if you shy away from such cardinal aspects of what you yourself are saying, then we will verily end up having said nothing at all! |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by mrmayor(m): 10:47am On Jul 09, 2010 |
Black Man. Noble Truth 9. Thou Shall Not Question Or Challenge Holy Books[ BIBLE & KORAN]. You must believe Everything, Accept Everything, Do All the Holy Books Tells You to Do. Noble Truth 10. Thou Shall NOT Question or Challenge Religious Authority. You must Obey All Your Spiritual Fathers and Mothers. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by PastorAIO: 11:04am On Jul 09, 2010 |
I don tire already. Just this small matter of virtue is so complicated and convoluted. It is already giving me a headache. Virtue in my understanding is the essential quality of a thing. But I'm not sure if you mean it in another sense, like in a ethical sense. Virtue by virtue of being about what is true and essential does not lend itself to nonsensicalities, nonsensicalisations, or just plain simple nonsense . . . i.e without sense, of the common sort nor of the more hi4lutin' sort. A virtuous practice then would be what? Does the practice seek to cultivate virtue in the practitioner, or is it the practice itself that is virtuous thus making the practitioner a practicer of virtue with or without attaining virtue. Take a medulla oblongata and sever it with the severity of an angry headmaster. Will the headmaster continue to be master of the head, or will he in actually fact have lost his head? This in fact is the question. For where does commonsense end and where does the more esoteric aspect of sense begin. And further where does that end and where does most glorious nonsense in full majesty array begin. And who can claim to master it all, sense, common and arcane, and nonsense, both majestic and deplorably abject. Are we not masters at this? As the great, late Fela would say "anybody wey give us s++t, hin go getti s++t, in that case, so therefore, I am givi dem serious warning . . . " O rest in peace, great black president of the Kalakuta republic. Rest in Peace, Sun re. No, Sun re means rest in peace but if you really want to take it to the egyptian mythology level then why not. I'll give you a run for your money. stream of consciousness flowing flowing interconnectedness of ideas is one thing but how do you cross the river. In the barque of the Sun of course, in full fellowship with the Gods. Re in majestic splendour is the Headmaster brandishing a cane with which to flog errant pupils, much like he flogged apophis into submission prior to the rising of the solar barque. And chaos was pushed back once again, but only for a few hours, for darkness will rise again. Or rather the solar barque will submerge once again into the waters, the streams and seas of black consciousness and that is when all good boys go to bed. Sun re o! Black consciousness, Kwame Nkrumah, African personality must shine, Young African Pioneers will lead the way. Sun re O, Baba Kuti. And so we skip on the borders of the nonsensical and the supercalifragalistical. I'm not feeling too espealidocious at the moment if you know what i mean. By virtue of the fact that Virtues will never cease to be virtues and NL will never cease to be NL, but comings and goings remain comings and goings, seeming to come into being and then seeming to cease but in actual fact . . . lol . . . and here's the rub . . . in actually fact it all remains the ineffable Sameness. The Oneness and Sameness of all finite things. Finite things with boundaries well delineated, not with walls like the athenians, but rather with like Sparta with the Spears of the well articulated rhetoric of their young men. Yes, those same young men that were flogged diligently into shape by the head master. Do not be the master of one head, but rather the jack of many. Mind you I said the head not the behind or the behind. If you get the wrong end completely then far from being a Headmaster you just end up being a JackAss. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by PastorAIO: 11:06am On Jul 09, 2010 |
mrmayor: Noble Truth 11: If you stand on your head then the whole world will be upside down. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by PastorAIO: 11:07am On Jul 09, 2010 |
Except the antipodeans. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by DeepSight(m): 11:12am On Jul 09, 2010 |
^^^ Pastor, are you ok? Worried. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by MyJoe: 11:16am On Jul 09, 2010 |
No need to worry about supercali. . . and the other ones. Such words would come to you naturally if you are PastorAIO.  |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by PastorAIO: 11:32am On Jul 09, 2010 |
Deep Sight: I'm fine thanks. And you? What is worrying you? Don't worry it'll pass. pele. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by DeepSight(m): 11:41am On Jul 09, 2010 |
^^^ All that for "virtue?" Now we are truly in the woods. You are gradually reminding me of this thread - https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-335826.0.html But I like this though - seeming to come into being and then seeming to cease but in actual fact . . . lol . . . and here's the rub . . . in actually fact it all remains the ineffable Sameness. The Oneness and Sameness of all finite things. yep! |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by PastorAIO: 11:59am On Jul 09, 2010 |
Deep Sight: We are in the woods but as long as we stay on the path and don't get distracted we'll be safe from the big bad wolf. The question on my mind is, "Why wear a riding hood when you are not riding but rather walking"? Everything ought to remind you of everything else, after all everything is everything. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by InesQor(m): 1:16pm On Jul 09, 2010 |
LMAO at the thread. Pastor AIO na wa for u ur post above o! Everything ought to remind you of everything else, after all everything is everything. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by nuclearboy(m): 4:17pm On Jul 09, 2010 |
Pastor AIO: I'd thought perchance I was imagining things; apparently I'm not then alone in it! [size=3pt]suggest, assert, conclude[/size] More importantly though is the 11th and final Noble Truth: You chaps are all a wonder |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by PastorAIO: 4:30pm On Jul 09, 2010 |
nuclearboy: Number eleven has already been taken dude. Yeah, I noticed that tendency of his from other thread that is why as innocuous as it may seem it's better to nip it in the bud quick quick. Otherwise it soon turns from innocuous to poisonous. |
| Re: Four Noble Truths by DeepSight(m): 7:17pm On Jul 09, 2010 |
^^^ Simply put you both are not able to squarely face the natural, logical and ineluctable inferences of your own words. Yeah, I noticed that tendency of yours from other threads that is why as innocuous as it may seem it's better to nip it in the bud quick quick. Otherwise it soon turns from innocuous to poisonous. |
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