Most Muslims often say this word when a Muslim left Islam that he/she is Ignorant of Islam reason he/she left the religion. They just don't want to accept one can leave their precious religion.

In every field or group people leave and people join this is just the fact, you don't have to fallaciously project their reasons when you don't have any clue why they left or join, you don't have to delusionally act superior towards their reasons. One is said to be committing a projection fallacy and psychological projection here.

Let's make example of this fallacy.

1. Christiano Ronaldo is a professional football player playing for Real Madrid, he left Real Madrid for Juventus, does this suddenly make him a non-professional footballer?

2. A Muslim left Islam therefore he's Ignorant, stupid, confused and not guided while a non-muslim joining Islam is not Ignorant, stupid, confused and he was guided maybe by Allah, Is this a logical argument?

What most Muslim don't understand is that an ex-muslim may left Islam after doing so many research with open mind, he left Islam because he understands the religion while a non-muslim joining Islam maybe Ignorant and just converted to Islam for some reasons. An ex-muslim can be as Ignorant as a convert Muslim and vice versa.

Whatever the case is the fact is people leave and people join, ask them why they left or join, you don't have to project it for them, that's fallacy and nonsensical.

If you have logical argument why an ex-muslim is Ignorant and a convert Muslim is not kindly present them.

@Khaleell001 argument,

Khaleell001:
I know some idiots who identify themselves as Christians won't like this.

I have this to say to them :
That lady that converted to Christianity never really knew Islām that was why she was busy confusing herself hence you enabled her.
But as you were celebrating our "loss" God guided an
this Chinese man to be blessed with Islām.
Each time you think. you have mocked us it always end with eggs on your face.

Know this, if you don't like what just happened I say, go bang your head in a nuclear reactor for all we care.

https://www.nairaland.com/5109460/chinese-man-converts-islam-kano#77157035

Khaleell001:



I will admit that not in all cases do you have Christians who revert to Islam being clear of what they are doing, but most people who reverted from Christianity to Islam do this based on studying and following logical evidences.
I have many of them that I know.
But most (I mean very many) those who go from Islām to Christianity do not do so based on learning or even understanding they are those who were not practising muslims in the real sense of the word.

In all my 3 decades of existence, I have not come across a single practising Muslim who left Islam for Christianity, but I have seen priest, Bishops, pastors and even learned men of the Bible left Christianity for Islam

Read about Yusuf Estes, Gerald Dirks,Cat Stevens and many more like that across the world and even here in Nigeria .In fact, they are too many to start enumerating them.

As for your last point, I will be waiting to come across such thread to debunk any lies and misinformation you concoct against Islam.

And please,remember to tag me the thread

https://www.nairaland.com/5109460/chinese-man-converts-islam-kano/1#77331339

Mister this is thread is for you to present your logical argument as regard your premise, the thread has been open, let's discuss it.

An atheist turned a religionist is suffering from 'religious stockholm syndrome' - Atheist.

Whereas "atheists express their rage against God although in their view he doesn't exist ". LMAO

Another foolish atheist asked, you can't be intelligent and be religious at the same time.

Bunch of arrogant slowpokes.

Rilwayne001:
An atheist turned a religionist is suffering from 'religious stockholm syndrome' - Atheist.

Such Atheist is wrong and shouldn't be taken serious.

Whereas "atheists express their rage against God although in their view he doesn't exist ". LMAO

This is not about "rage against God" it's silly and ridiculous to be fighting imaginary entity, the problem is the people doing silly things for God.

Another foolish atheist asked, you can't be intelligent and be religious at the same time.

This is false. I even disagree with it in the thread.

Bunch of arrogant slowpokes.

No red herring.

If you have nothing meaningful to present kindly don't troll the thread.

tintingz:


No red herring.

If you have nothing meaningful to present kindly don't troll the thread.

I was just trying to demonstrate the supposed 'projection fallacy' you accused him of. Atheist commits it too, in a nutshell.

tintingz:
@Khaleell001 argument,


https://www.nairaland.com/5109460/chinese-man-converts-islam-kano#77157035


https://www.nairaland.com/5109460/chinese-man-converts-islam-kano/1#77331339

Mister this is thread is for you to present your logical argument as regard your premise, the thread has been open, let's discuss it.

I don't get you.
What are you actually saying?

Rilwayne001:


I was just trying to demonstrate the supposed 'projection fallacy' you accused him of. Atheist commits it too, in a nutshell.

I have modified my response above.

Yes there are atheists that commit fallacies just as everyone else. There's no sentiment here.

The thread is focusing on Muslims fallacies which I hear or see often, when someone leave their religion he suddenly became Ignorant and confused, they mostly don't even ask why, I've received same statement.

Maybe I haven't come across atheists attacking ex-atheists for joining a religion like "oh he's Ignorant, confused, stupid", but I've seen Muslims always attacking ex-muslims even on YouTube, they won't bother asking why.

Khaleell001:


I don't get you.
What are you actually saying?

Why do you think an ex-muslim Is Ignorant and confused but a convert Muslim is not?

What logical argument do you have for this?

I cannot describe a person who leaves Islam as an Ignorant merely because he left, but can describe him so if the reasons he is presenting really depicts his ignorance.

likewise, a convert might also be ignorant of facts about Islam. He may not be accepting it out of conviction but maybe out of some benefits he is seeking... Allah knows best.

A born Muslim can very much be ignorant of what Islam actually is if he/she does not study it or is not properly taught.

There is more to Islam than the way it is being presented.

tintingz:
I have modified my response above.

Yes there are atheists that commit fallacies just as everyone else. There's no sentiment here.

The thread is focusing on Muslims fallacies which I hear or see often, when someone leave their religion he suddenly became Ignorant and confused not even asking why, I've received same statement.

And do you think one cannot be truly ignorant and confused to have abandoned a particular belief? Can one truly know it all?

Maybe I haven't come across atheists attacking ex-atheists for joining a religion like "oh he's Ignorant, confused, stupid", but I've seen Muslims always attacking ex-muslims even on YouTube, they won't bother asking why.

We have plenty atheists doing that too. They are even more on nairaland.

Rilwayne001:


And do you think one cannot be truly ignorant and confused to have abandoned a particular belief? Can one truly know it all?

Ofcos one can be Ignorant to have abandoned his/her former belief, my premise is projecting their reasons which is the fallacy. Many Muslims don't ask "why" you left the religion instead they jump into conclusion he's Ignorant and confused, even if you gave your reasons they will still project your life.

We have plenty atheists doing that too. They are even more on nairaland.

Well yes, maybe I've not come across the plenty ones.

Niyi53:
I cannot describe a person who leaves Islam as an Ignorant merely because he left, but can describe him so if the reasons he is presenting really depicts his ignorance.

likewise, a convert might also be ignorant of facts about Islam. He may not be accepting it out of conviction but maybe out of some benefits he is seeking... Allah knows best.

A born Muslim can very much be ignorant of what Islam actually is if he/she does not study it or is not properly taught.

There is more to Islam than the way it is being presented.

Good, fair enough.

tintingz:
Why do you think an ex-muslim Is Ignorant and confused but a convert Muslim is not?

What logical argument do you have for this?

let's start with you since you are an ex Muslim.
What made you leave Islam?
Give me logical reasons why you left Islām?

Rilwayne001:
An atheist turned a religionist is suffering from 'religious stockholm syndrome' - Atheist.

Whereas "atheists express their rage against God although in their view he doesn't exist ". LMAO

Another foolish atheist asked, you can't be intelligent and be religious at the same time.

Bunch of arrogant slowpokes.

Provide a logical argument why Muslim apostate is ignorant of Islam while a new convert is not. This is so simple and a straightforward challenge.

Khaleell001:


let's start with you since you are an ex Muslim.
What made you leave Islam?
Give me logical reasons why you left Islām?

Ok. If you had been following my threads and arguments you would have known why I left Islam. Anyways they are still in my profile to go through.

There are many reasons but in a nutshell, I will present my first three reasons that made me left Islam.

1. The Quran is full of myths.

2. Is Allah the only one true God?.

3. There are also problems with Allah's plan.

tintingz:
@Khaleell001 argument,


https://www.nairaland.com/5109460/chinese-man-converts-islam-kano#77157035


https://www.nairaland.com/5109460/chinese-man-converts-islam-kano/1#77331339

Mister this is thread is for you to present your logical argument as regard your premise, the thread has been open, let's discuss it.

Abeg free that guy he is a terrorist

sarahade:



Abeg free that guy he is a terrorist

Lol, he's delusional.

sarahade:



Abeg free that guy he is a terrorist

You know some of you are just just too dense to understand simple and logical discussion.
You only resort to calling people names when you have nothing reasonable to say like a badly programmed robot.
I no blame you sha.

Khaleell001:


You know some of you are just just too dense to understand simple and logical discussion.
You only resort to calling people names when you have nothing reasonable to say like a badly programmed robot.
I no blame you sha.

Your opinion doesn't count

Khaleell001:


You know some of you are just just too dense to understand simple and logical discussion.
You only resort to calling people names when you have nothing reasonable to say like a badly programmed robot.
I no blame you sha.

I'm still waiting for your response.

tintingz:
I'm still waiting for your response.

I asked a question and you are yet to answer it.

sarahade:

Your opinion doesn't count

Because you said so? I don't argue with ladies who can hardly be coherent with their views.

tintingz:
Lol, he's delusional.

You are already insulting me because I don't pander to your upside down reasoning.
it's OK.

tintingz:
Ok. If you had been following my threads and arguments you would have known why I left Islam. Anyways they are still in my profile to go through.

There are many reasons but in a nutshell, I will present my first three reasons that made me left Islam.

1. The Quran is full of myths.

2. Is Allah the only one true God?.

3. There are also problems with Allah's plan.

1.How do you know Qur'aan is a myth?
Can you prove what makes it a myth?

2.This is just an Arabic word for God almighty.

3.Where in specific terms.

I don't like reading links if you don't mind.

Make your point clear here instead of taking me to a link .

tintingz:
Ok. If you had been following my threads and arguments you would have known why I left Islam. Anyways they are still in my profile to go through.

There are many reasons but in a nutshell, I will present my first three reasons that made me left Islam.

1. The Quran is full of myths.

2. Is Allah the only one true God?.

3. There are also problems with Allah's plan.

1.How do you know Qur'aan is a myth?
Can you elucidate what makes it a myth?

2.This is just an Arabic word for God almighty.

3.Where in specific terms.

I don't like reading links if you don't mind.

Make your point clear here instead of taking me to a link .

Khaleell001:


1.How do you know Qur'aan is a myth?
Can you elucidate what makes it a myth?

There are no evidences to prove the events in the Quran.

2.This is just an Arabic word for God almighty.

What about their attributes? Is Allah the same as Vishnu?

3.Where in specific terms.

Did Allah plan evil to exist?

I don't like reading links if you don't mind.

Make your point clear here instead of taking me to a link .

Ok

Khaleell001:

Because you said so?
I don't argue with ladies who can hardly be coherent with their views.

Yes, Mohammed said that women are deficient in reasoning.

true2god:
Yes, Mohammed said that women are deficient in reasoning.

And you think you understood what he said?
When some ignoramus comes along with their upside-down reasoning I only shake my head in pity.

tintingz:
There are no evidences to prove the events in the Quran.

What about their attributes? Is Allah the same as Vishnu?

Did Allah plan evil to exist?

Ok

Are trying to say the Qur'aan is a fabrication?

Saying something is myth does not end there, you have to establish what makes something a myth not just mere "there is no evidence to prove events in the Qur'aan"
Mind you, Qur'aan is not a story book.

There are many scientific facts that have been affirmed by world renowned scientist about the true nature of the Qur'aan.
If with this metric scientists use in confirming these facts I am wondering where the myth factor comes in?
Does a book of myth talks about scientific facts?

I think you are using a faulty premise to conclude that the Qur'aan is not what you think it is.

Your premise is faulty;check it properly.

Allāh is one and has many attributes which can't be compared to any of His creatures.

If the Indian word "Vishnu" match with any of His inimitable attributes then we can say it's okay, but if Vishnu as a word connotes anything other than that what we know of Allāh's attributes then we can't call Vishnu Allah.
There is a standard which is:"There is none comparable to Him "
-Qur'aan 112 verse 4.

In fact, any word in any language that does not match with His unequalled attributes that word is not fit to be ascribed to Him.
Whether it Vishnu, Buddha, Jesus or even Muhammad. Once it does not match with any of His attributes then it isn't good enough to be used.


There is a difference between planning and creating something.
What we see as evil is part of His creation.
Everything he created is beyond our mental grasp;as you are finding it difficult to understand why would someone kill people without reason and Allāh is said to be good and all loving to permit such evil.

The thing you should understand is, the world itself is not a place of absolute happiness because it wasn't designed that way. That is why you have different times and different seasons for different reasons.

Things we see as evil are not really as we see them but can at times be beneficial in another way.
Most of us don't like darkness, but if there is no darkness will there be time for rest. Will plants not wither and die because of excessive heat from. the sun?
If there is no death for powerful people, will people like Adolf Hitler not continue to kill and incinerate people at will? .
If there is nothing like disease;will science ever produce some of the anti vaccines, anti dotes and the likes we use in treating ourselves?

There are a billion and thousand things that are evil (not good for us) for a time,but beneficial at other time.

Evil itself is subjective and relative depending on the situation.
I am not saying Allāh commanded evil no;all I am saying is, the world itself is not designed to be perfect place but a place to test us with the choices we make. That is why Allāh said in Qur'aan 62 verse 2:"He created death and life to test which of you is best in deeds"

I await your response and any question.

Khaleell001:


Are trying to say the Qur'aan is a fabrication?

What else is it?

Saying something is myth does not end there, you have to establish what makes something a myth not just mere "there is no evidence to prove events in the Qur'aan"
Mind you, Qur'aan is not a story book.

This is the reason you should visit the links I provided.

Take your time and go through the thread, you don't have to read all. >> https://www.nairaland.com/5095109/myths-quran

The Quran is filled with mythologies that are known in the ancient Sumerian, Hebrew, Greeks, Egyptian etc texts.

There are many scientific facts that have been affirmed by world renowned scientist about the true nature of the Qur'aan.
If with this metric scientists use in confirming these facts I am wondering where the myth factor comes in?
Does a book of myth talks about scientific facts?

There's no scientific fact in the Qur'an, the creation story is even a joke, e.g six days creation, Adam was made of Clay(we're carbon base entity not silicon). These are not facts.

I think you are using a faulty premise to conclude that the Qur'aan is not what you think it is.

I've presented my argument in a logical way, again visit those links to understand my premise.

Your premise is faulty;check it properly.

Maybe you should point them out.

Allāh is one and has many attributes which can't be compared to any of His creatures.

If the Indian word "Vishnu" match with any of His inimitable attributes then we can say it's okay, but if Vishnu as a word connotes anything other than that what we know of Allāh's attributes then we can't call Vishnu Allah.
There is a standard which is:"There is none comparable to Him "
-Qur'aan 112 verse 4.

In fact, any word in any language that does not match with His unequalled attributes that word is not fit to be ascribed to Him.
Whether it Vishnu, Buddha, Jesus or even Muhammad. Once it does not match with any of His attributes then it isn't good enough to be used.

Vishnu looks nothing like Allah, they are different Gods. Your Ignorance didn't allow you to know the attributes of these Gods. Every Gods have their attributes and mythologies attributed to them. We're are NOT talking about the "word" used for God but the characteristics of God.

The question is, which God is the right one? Why did you believe Allah to be the true God and reject other Gods?

There is a difference between planning and creating something.

Allah planned before creation or didn't he?

What we see as evil is part of his creation.
Everything he created is beyond our mental grasp;as you are finding it difficult to understand why would someone kill people without reason and Allāh is said to be good and all loving.

You're trying to say what Allah do/did is meaningless right?

If Allah is good and all loving, how come evil exist? Hope you know this is a paradox?

The thing you should understand is, the world itself is not a place of absolute happiness because it wasn't designed that way. That is why you have different times and different seasons for different reasons.

Yes your God created the world imperfectly then again wanted to eternally punish his creation for the imperfection he created.

Is that a merciful God?

You can't create something imperfect and expect it to be perfect, doesn't sound logical.

Things we see as evil are not really as we see them but can at times be beneficial in another way.
Most of us don't like darkness, but if there is no darkness will there be time for rest. Will plants not wither and die because of excessive heat from. the sun?
If there is no death for powerful people, will people like Adolf Hitler not continue to kill and incinerate people at will? .
If there is nothing like disease;will science ever produce some of the anti vaccines, anti dotes and the likes we use in treating ourselves?

There are a billion and thousand things that are evil (not good for us) for a time,but beneficial at other time.

Evil itself is subjective and relative depending on the situation.
I am not saying Allāh commanded evil no;all I am saying is, the world itself is not designed to be perfect place but a place to test us with the choices we make. That is why Allāh said in Qur'aan 62 verse 2:"He created death and life to test which of you is best in deeds"

Allah hate evil, he's all loving and good yet he allowed evil to exist when he knows the end of. It's part of Allah's plan to create evil, he test people when he already knows the outcome of it, is he malevolent?

Evil may serve purpose for humans but Allah blaming and punishing humans for it is meaningless, he planned it he should take responsibility for what he created. He should just accept he's evil.

And I thought Allah said he created the world perfectly, theists mostly use this argument that God exist because the universe is perfect.

I await your response and any question.

Ok.

tintingz:
What else is it?

This is the reason you should visit the links I provided.

Take your time and go through the thread, you don't have to read all. >> https://www.nairaland.com/5095109/myths-quran

The Quran is filled with mythologies that are known in the ancient Sumerian, Hebrew, Greeks, Egyptian etc texts.

There's no scientific fact in the Qur'an, the creation story is even a joke, e.g six days creation, Adam was made of Clay(we're carbon base entity not silicon). These are not facts.

I've presented my argument in a logical way, again visit those links to understand my premise.

Maybe you should point them out.



Vishnu looks nothing like Allah, they are different Gods. Your Ignorance didn't allow you to know the attributes of these Gods. Every Gods have their attributes and mythologies attributed to them. We're are NOT talking about the "word" used for God but the characteristics of God.

The question is, which God is the right one? Why did you believe Allah to be the true God and reject other Gods?


Allah planned before creation or didn't he?

You're trying to say what Allah do/did is meaningless right?

If Allah is good and all loving, how come evil exist? Hope you know this is a paradox?

Yes your God created the world imperfectly then again wanted to eternally punish his creation for the imperfection he created.

Is that a merciful God?

You can't create something imperfect and expect it to be perfect, doesn't sound logical.



Allah hate evil, he's all loving and good yet he allowed evil to exist when he knows the end of. It's part of Allah's plan to create evil, he test people when he already knows the outcome of it, is he malevolent?

Evil may serve purpose for humans but Allah blaming and punishing humans for it is meaningless, he planned it he should take responsibility for what he created. He should just accept he's evil.

And I thought Allah said he created the world perfectly, theists mostly use this argument that God exist because the universe is perfect.

Ok.

You are obviously pained about something that happened to you in the past hence your outburst.

I just scanned through your write and I see that it is writ large with logical inconsistencies and unscientific deduction.

All what you cited in your write up to prove that the information contained in the Qur'aan was a myth, oh showed how you started drawing conclusions from your made up premise and you think anyone would take you serious.

The question is, who decided what's a myth.

Even the deluge you referred to as the Quran affirmed was not a global deluge. Wince yiu are ignorant of the Qur'aan you projected your feelings and wishes into it without looking at the interpretation of the verse that talks about the deluge.
Some of the myth you said where in other sources your drew your conclusion from opposed the Quran in several details.
like I said, Qur'aan is not a story book.

Even if for the sake of argument I were to agree with you for the sake of argument that Qur'aan is a myth, how did you come to such conclusion when you never showed any process or procedure in your junk write up to show it was indeed a myth.

I can refer you to links that proves the scientific accuracy of the Qur'aan and all other historical narration that are there in the Quran.
And mind you, a book of myth will not be this consistent over fourteen centuries without any alterations and addition.
No book boast of such profile, not even the Bible not even your weak brain that you used in coming to such haphazard conclusion.

People of high repute tried ridiculing the Quran and it's inimitable nature but they ended up with their tails in between their legs.

In shaa Allāh I will respond to each of your point from a logical and scientifically proven angle and we will see who is indeed delusional.

Khaleell001:


You are obviously pained about something that happened to you in the past hence your outburst.

This is the projection fallacy I'm talking about.

I just scanned through your write and I see that it is writ large with logical inconsistencies and unscientific deduction.

Ok let's see how far you go.

All what you cited in your write up to prove that the information contained in the Qur'aan was a myth, oh showed how you started drawing conclusions from your made up premise and you think anyone would take you serious.

The question is, who decided what's a myth.

Even the deluge you referred to as the Quran affirmed was not a global deluge. Wince yiu are ignorant of the Qur'aan you projected your feelings and wishes into it without looking at the interpretation of the verse that talks about the deluge.
Some of the myth you said where in other sources your drew your conclusion from opposed the Quran in several details.
like I said, Qur'aan is not a story book.

Even if for the sake of argument I were to agree with you for the sake of argument that Qur'aan is a myth, how did you come to such conclusion when you never showed any process or procedure in your junk write up to show it was indeed a myth.

I can refer you to links that proves the scientific accuracy of the Qur'aan and all other historical narration that are there in the Quran.

1. Lol. So how do we know when a story is a myth or historical or are we suppose to take any story as real?

First of all you didn't even bother knowing what a mythology means, you just post out of Ignorance.

We have study of history, mythology, historical archaeology, archaeology etc I don't know if they are ceremonial to you or your Ignorance is messing with your reasoning.

2. Ok, you can provide link of historical narrations in the Qur'an, can you start with historicity of Adam, is he real or a myths, provide us the archaeological evidence of his existence.

3. Thirdly, Is the story of Perseus real or a myth?

Answer the three questions above and let's move on.

And mind you, a book of myth will not be this consistent over fourteen centuries without any alterations and addition.
No book boast of such profile, not even the Bible not even your weak brain that you used in coming to such haphazard conclusion.

A book doesn't have to boast of anything before we can accept it as true or fact, when you boast of something you might actually be lying!

Boasting is not used as fact in the court, evidence is what they need.

Bible is believed by billions of people in the world and yes it boast of it being the true revelation from Yahweh and the funny thing is your Quran copied most of the stories in the Bible, so I still don't understand your nonsense and delusion.

People of high repute tried ridiculing the Quran and it's inimitable nature but they ended up with their tails in between their legs.

Lol, how did they ended up with their tails in between their legs?

In shaa Allāh I will respond to each of your point from a logical and scientifically proven angle and we will see who is indeed delusional.

Oh, this is what I'm more interested with not the nonsense you have being posting. I hope you don't disappoint.