Remember The Poor - Religion - Nairaland
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Are Churches Really Helping The Poor And Unemployed In Our Society Today? / Oritsejafor To Jonathan - Give Half Of Your Salary To The Poor / Is It Wrong To Give Your Tithe To The Poor (2) (3) (4)
| Remember The Poor by Joagbaje(m): 9:38am On Nov 02, 2010 |
Proverbs 19:17 17 He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the Lord; and that which he hath given will he pay him again. There are different kinds and definition of poor people Many times we look only at the beggars by the road as "The poor" but i'm making reference to anyone that is not as privilege as you (less privileged) as the poor Sometimes we tend to give kobo kobo coins to the beggars , just to have the good religious feeling. But we can do better than that. Why can't you give a beggar 1,000 - 5,000 or more. Be a miracle. Be a suprise. Be an answer to someones prayer today. You can sponsor someones child . Give your old car to a family by surprise . Remember the poor.( less privilege) Everybody ought to be a giver, whatever your level in life , you are still more privileged than someone. You don't have to finish the perfume to the last drop. You don't have to exhaust everything. Things must not expire in your possession. Don't be an end user. Your suit does not have to fade on your shoulder, the shirt must not tear on your body, give them out in time and be a miracle. Look around you today. Several idols are with you that you didn't think of parting with. Some , you may never use, some " isale apoti" Antiquites , shoes, bags etc that your children may not to inherit. Someone needs them now. Be a miracle. Give it out. In the bible days , one of Gods principles of prosperity for his people was not to harvest everything in the farm. But they were to leave some deliberately for the poor that will come after harvest to glean. Leviticus 19:10 10 And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather[ every] grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I[ am] the Lord your God. Sometimes those who are surrounded with opportunities despise the poor, some employers just delays or not pay staff salaries in time. And not for any good reason. A cashier just would not attend to peoples voucher etc. " ABEGI, MAKE THEM WAIT JARE" . These attitudes are contrary to the principles of prosperity Proverbs 3:27-28 27 Do not withhold good from those who deserve it, when it is in your power to act. 28 Do not say to your neighbor,“Come back later; I’ll give it tomorrow”– when you now have it with you. I love the saying of the man of God Pastor Chris which says . "NEVER LET THE POOR CRY OUT TO GOD BECAUSE OF YOU" This is the reason why some privileged people in life ends up as poor because they missed their chances when they had the opportunity to make the poor smile under their jurisdiction. Proverbs 21:13 13 Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard. Our prosperity is connected to our giving.we have several opportunities to impact our world. Such as ministering to the poor. Remember you don't have to wait for the big big thing . Start from where you are now. You have 5 wristwatches, you can give someone a surprise today. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by KunleOshob(m): 10:07am On Nov 02, 2010 |
I am shocked such a topic is coming from joagbaje whose understanding of christian giving ends with giving to the church and religious leaders. It neans there is still yet hope for him. @joagbaje God bless you for this topic, this is what true christian giving is primarily about. At least it shows that you are learning something positive on NL  |
| Re: Remember The Poor by Zikkyy(m): 10:11am On Nov 02, 2010 |
Jo, are you serious  What happened  You see vision last night  |
| Re: Remember The Poor by Zikkyy(m): 10:19am On Nov 02, 2010 |
KunleOshob: Yes oooooh It’s looking very likely that Jo will surrender his heart to Christ in the very near future |
| Re: Remember The Poor by Joagbaje(m): 11:07am On Nov 02, 2010 |
@kunleoshob KunleOshob: It only proves you've been reading my posts with bias eyeglass. Because I have been consistently saying the same things All the while. Giving to the poor is only one of the many givings in the bible. I still said the same thing in may this year: Re: The Lessons Of Giving And The Hypocrites!
No sir , its only one of the numerous. You dwell only on one aspect. But there are seveal kinds of giving with difference blessings. You need to read up and balance it. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by nuclearboy(m): 7:39pm On Nov 03, 2010 |
@Brothers: I think you guys were too much in a hurry. It would normally, be laudable what Jo initially stated but his caveat following it clarifies his stand. He wants you to [1] give to God (in church whist the Bible says Christ lives with the needy) [2] give to the poor [3] give to projects in church whist the Apostles gave to uplift people not build monuments to pastors [4] give to the man of "god", again in church [5] give to your parents Minimum for church using a linear math model would be 60% of your gifts. Please realise tithes are not included here so church may actually get 90% with parents and poor sharing the crumbs. In my estimation, its 6 in one hand and half a dozen in the other. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by Zikkyy(m): 9:10pm On Nov 03, 2010 |
nuclearboy: I am fully aware of Jo’s ‘wayo’. The fact that the man considers giving to the poor even if just crumbs calls for celebration. It’s a step in the right direction, even if it’s a marketing gimmick nuclearboy: I don’t know the source of Jo’s ‘giving list’ above. It’s definitely not from God. Besides, the man is yet to tell us how giving no. 1 differs from giving no. 3 or 4. Maybe it’s just the need to breakdown the giving within the church premises into as many bits as possible to maximise the collections. Joagbaje: So what’s the blessing associated with ‘giving to God (in God’s house)’? Your list is not complete; there are other kinds of giving to God not on your list. i did a bit of research and came up with the updated list (below). You don’t need to thank me. 1.Giving to God (in God's house) 2.Giving to the poor 3.Giving for Projects in Gods house 5.Giving to your parents. 6.Giving to God (in the orphanage) 7.Giving to God (in the hospital) 8.Giving to God (in the school for physically disabled) 9.Giving to God (for those in crisis situation. e.g. flood victims at Ikorodu, Lagos) I believe the improved list makes more sense. What do you think? |
| Re: Remember The Poor by Joagbaje(m): 5:12pm On Nov 04, 2010 |
nuclearboy: The quote was from an old thread , i only brought it out to prove a fact. Its not an issue for debate, But if you hsve issues with it, you should point it out. I didn't write the bible . Which one of them is unscriptural. Don't use your religious mind to interpret the word. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by MaiSuya(m): 11:25pm On Nov 04, 2010 |
I noticed that in a lot of these threads that deal with Christian giving, many people tend to have issues with giving to the man of God. Is it really [i]unscriptural [/i]to give to the man of God? |
| Re: Remember The Poor by nuclearboy(m): 11:33pm On Nov 04, 2010 |
^ Would like examples of such situations where people are against giving to ministers. What is wrong is doing that exclusively and with the wrong motive i.e. Because you wish for returns or special favors. another perspective is that men of God whose thrust is worldly are likely not what they claim. Where your treasure is, there will your heart be |
| Re: Remember The Poor by Joagbaje(m): 11:47am On Nov 05, 2010 |
Nuclearboy , You didn't answer the question . Is it unscriptural to give to mininsters of God? Forget their motive because you are not in their heart. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by nuclearboy(m): 12:03pm On Nov 05, 2010 |
@Jo: This is simple english - It is GOOD to GIVE. It is scriptural to give. The benefits of giving are greater than those of taking. Please note that those benefits are not neccessarily financial. The motive is also an issue. Real givers are not looking for returns. Those who give for returns (all the tripe you spout about it being God's plan for prosperity) are only investing and not giving. Now whether you give to the poor or to a widow or the fatherless or to your so called "man of God" (for what child of God isn't a man of God), giving is good. The point I make above is that once giving is twisted to refer only or mainly to "men of God", there is a problem. And that is what you and your peers have turned it into. And your giving is actually NOT giving but investing - you give 10 because you believe you will get 20 then give that because you expect 50. Tell me then what is the difference between you and Dangote? In absolute terms, Chris Oyakilome has less need than the average orphan needing food or the widow searching to pay her rent. But you and co turn scripture around to make it seem as though Oyaks is the needy one and giving him is what will open the windows of heaven. In effect, you are making people look at the whole concept of giving as you do - you refuse to do right and cross sea to get converts and then you make them twice as terrible as yourselves. "In God's Name PLC" is what you should be called |
| Re: Remember The Poor by KunleOshob(m): 1:39pm On Nov 05, 2010 |
@joagbaje I just came across the scripture below and decided to share it with you. It might perhaps explain why majority of CEC members remain poor despite all their gifts to pastor chris who is already very rich. Proverbs 22:16 If you make gifts to rich people or oppress the poor to get rich, you will become poor yourself. ^^^ Surely there is a curse for giving to rich men like pastor chris and other super "rich men of God" Proverbs 21:27 The lord hates it when wicked men offer him sacrifices, especially if they do it from evil motives. ^^^ I think the verse above address those who "give" to God in anticipation of multiple returns. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by mummykia: 2:11pm On Nov 05, 2010 |
It is actually scriptural to give to the Men of God. Problem is that most of them are greedy - asking us to give them even our own portion, commanded us by God to eat, so that we know that He (GOD) has blessed us. I mean the TITHE. Yes! God commanded that the Tithe of every year should be set aside and be eaten by the giver, but must be a feast in Gods presence/ house with the giver's family, neighbours,pastor, less privilaged etc. But that of the 3rd yr should be taken to a central place in our towns -called store house, so that the poor, orphans, widows, strangers, and the Livites of course can go there and eat freely. Deuteronomy 14:22-29, Deut. 12:17-18. They prefere to quote Malachi where the Isrealites were rebuked for not bringing the tithes/ taking it to the store-house( the 3rd year) as God had commanded earlier. Our Pastors Quote Malachi as if the Tithe law is just being given there. There are offerings of course that should be exclusively theirs eg fellowship offerings, but they claim that everything is their own. Shine your eyes well well o! READ YOUR BIBLES FOR YOURSELVES. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by Joagbaje(m): 7:32pm On Nov 05, 2010 |
@Nuclearboy nuclearboy: Every giving is an investment my dear. It's the giver that always benefit. Exept you have another bible for religious folks. Either to the man of God or to the poor, it's an investment. Proverbs 19:17 17 He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the Lord; and that which he hath given will he pay him again. Now whether you give to the poor or to a widow or the fatherless or to your so called "man of God" (for what child of God isn't a man of God), giving is good. You should know the difference between generic term and definite article. The bible only use the term "Man Of God" for minister. God differentiates Man of God from children of God. I don't know why you can just be man to admit where you're wrong and just open to knowledge. The point I make above is that once giving is twisted to refer only or mainly to "men of God", there is a problem. The only person twisting anything here is you, because I never said giving should be done to man of God only. I just talked about the poor . And there are several kinds of givings . Whoever is against giving to a man of God needs spiritual help. In absolute terms, Chris Oyakilome has less need than the average orphan needing food or the widow searching to pay her rent. But you and co turn scripture around to make it seem as though Oyaks is the needy one and giving him is what will open the windows of heaven. You don't give to a man of God because he lacks, you give to a man of God because of the anointing upon him. The same anointing will cause grace to abound upon you. It is wrong to pity a man of God. Even if he lacks, you don't give him as a pauper , you give him because he is anointed. I used to give men that preach in buses in the days I didn't have a car, I sow into their lives because it takes a calling and anointing to do such bus evangelism. I'm not talking about this who have turned it to church now. If you give him by the reason of the anointing, you have prophets reward. But if you give him Because of pity, you still have reward of the general. "In God's Name PLC" is what you should be called That's your ignorance , it doesnt change the truth. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by Joagbaje(m): 7:44pm On Nov 05, 2010 |
@kunleoshob KunleOshob: that's a big misconception. CEC members are blessed, because they do the word of God and it's working in them. Proverbs 22:16 If you make gifts to rich people or oppress the poor to get rich, you will become poor yourself. Who wrote Proverbs? Solomon, was he a man of God ? Yes. Was he rich? Yes, did he still collected gifts after being rich? Yes. The solomon youre quoting was a man of God ,yet he recived many gifts, from isrealites to the queen of sheba. Stop quoting scriptures out of context, did the bible say don't give to rich men of God. There is difference between this who are rich unto God and those who are rich unto themselves. And that scripture is actualy talking about gifts of bribery in context but I don't have time to go into that. Proverbs 21:27 The lord hates it when wicked men offer him sacrifices, especially if they do it from evil motives. That's wrong . God wants us to give and have faith for the blessing that comes with it. Every giving has it's blessing. If you don't believe in the reward of your giving, you may not have a harvest, because it's simply lack of faith in God as a rewarder. Heb 11:6 Galatians 6:6-9 6 Anyone who receives instruction in the word must share all good things with his instructor. 7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.--. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by Joagbaje(m): 8:15pm On Nov 05, 2010 |
@ mummykia mummykia: You are wrong , the tithe to be shared with the poor is a special one apart from the main tithes, this is done every three years . But the main tithe is taken to the house of God. And only the priests handle it. They prefere to quote Malachi where the Isrealites were rebuked for not bringing the tithes/ taking it to the store-house( the 3rd year) as God had commanded earlier. Our Pastors Quote Malachi as if the Tithe law is just being given there. Church money does not belong to the pastor, most pastors are great givers, I don't know the fake ones and I don't want to know them, God has his judgement on them. You should know that a pastor tithes as well, he has to practise the principles of the word to prosper. Many pastors work, as professionals in different fields , they make money and bring it to build the church. Some are businessmen and enterpreneurs . Some do business and use the money to build or buy equipments in church apart from attending to some members needs. A pastor can't misuse Gods money and get away with it. The enemy will get him down easily. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by mummykia: 8:50pm On Nov 05, 2010 |
@ Joagbaje
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| Re: Remember The Poor by mummykia: 9:02pm On Nov 05, 2010 |
Can you then explain Deut 14:23 and also verse 26, Deut 12:16? Please read these scriptures before replying. God bless you. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by KunleOshob(m): 10:11pm On Nov 05, 2010 |
@mummykia I wouldn't bother debating this tithe issue with joagbaje if I were you. Joagbaje is a pastor with CEC and he is a big time beneficiary of this illegal tithes, he depends on the scam for a living and as you may already be aware his church is notorious for distorting the truth and mamon worship so it would be almost impossible to get the truth from him as far as this filthy lucre is concerned. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by Joagbaje(m): 10:57pm On Nov 05, 2010 |
Kunleoshob, I am a tither and I don't worship money like you, i have conquered money through my givings. tithing is a walk with God from generation to generation. And I will forever be grateful to God for granting me the revelation of tithing from childhood.and I'm joyfully teaching my kids the same way to prosper. You are the one that worship mammon because you don't give and that's why poverty is dealing with you, Shey someone says recently that you are now busy exploiting students by selling handouts . When you start tithing you will come out of your miserable life. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by MaiSuya(m): 12:35am On Nov 06, 2010 |
Hmmm the summary seems to be give to The man of God as long as he's not rich, and don't expect anything in return? |
| Re: Remember The Poor by nuclearboy(m): 6:30am On Nov 06, 2010 |
@Mai Suya: You seem in a hurry to make your conclusions. That is very sad. Whether wealthy or not, you can give to your pastor. The issue is why! Why does God give us? Is it because He expects something from us or because He loves us. Why did Satan say to God that God's hedge around Job was the only reason why Job worshipped God? Was it not because he wanted trouble for the man? And if you decide to give God (who owns ALL things), the Bible says Christ lives with the poor. So who should you give? Anyway, if you are a true giver, you will behave as God and give because you emphatise with somebody's need and want to be an answer to prayer. You will give in thanksgiving to God. You will give because you realise that all you have is a trust given to you by God which ought be used for His work. And what is God's work? Caring, loving, releasing captives, wiping tears away. Joagbaje and his cohorts give because they want more. For them it is business, an investment, a way of arm-twisting God and that is reprehensible. But you do not have to believe me. Why not read the Bible and show where any of Christ's Apostles behaved like Jo and his master Chris? Just one example, please, of the Apostles giving because they wanted more. The people who walked with Jesus physically gave out of the little they had FOR THE POOR. Paul refused gifts and even boasted he was pleased working for his bread and water and not taking from any congregation. Or please show where they collected tithes or prophet offering or whatever? Then come back and tell us - what work does chris oyakilome and coy do? What is the source of their extreme wealth? On this forum, I have spoken of a gentleman, a former bank manager who said God called him to go to a fetish village and live his cushy life. He left his own 2 cars and official cars and duplex in Bodija, moved into a village without electricity (first time I went there, I feared) and years after he got there, electricity came there. When some of us came together and got him another car, he sold it and used it to enhance the school he had taken there. Suffice it to say they look at him like Christ - he gives them. He feeds his sheep. That is a man of God. He does not have a single acolyte because he will not countenance such. He does not have any "worshippers" who defend him. His precedents speak for him and his generations will be blessed. Please remember that this man had wife and three children before he moved to the village. Imagine how they felt or how he felt not been able to provide for them all the things they were used to prior to that. But he saw God's work as greater and forged ahead. He has single handedly destroyed the former dependence on occultic powers by his personal life there. Then tell me - was he doing it in the spirit Joagbaje details above? Do you know any CE members? What do you say of them? Fruits, sir. Your fruit shows who you are, not gist. Not a Prado jeep. Not cheating people and saying you are teaching them investments. Who God wishes to bless, He blesses regardless of tithe. If you disagree, tell me where Dangote, Babangida, Opray and Bill gates pay tithe to. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by KunleOshob(m): 6:49am On Nov 06, 2010 |
@joagbaje You are a misreable and shameless liar, the scripture in proverbs I quoted had absolutely nothing to do with bribery when read in proper context and YES God hates the giving of the wicked especially when done with evil motivess [expecting returns] if you don't like it you can rip that passage off yor bible but stop twisting scriptures here. We are not your average daft and deluded CEC customer who can't read and understand scriptures with consulting rapshody of erRORs. That aside I am not a lecturer neither do I deal with students so the issue of selling hand outs suggested by an equally daft poster does not arise. As far as prosperity is concerned, you don't want to even go there, but I would not be tempted to brag like you on this forum. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by Joagbaje(m): 7:32am On Nov 06, 2010 |
KunleOshob: Proverbs 22:1[/b]6 (TLB) 16 He who gains by oppressing the poor or by [b]bribing the rich shall end in poverty. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by newmi(m): 9:00am On Nov 06, 2010 |
KunleOshob: hey! come on young man, shocked; why, oh becos in this case he's not the object of the gesture but rather the subject? hmmmm |
| Re: Remember The Poor by newmi(m): 9:08am On Nov 06, 2010 |
KunleOshob: an't you, young man tired of aguing and insulting people, can't you just simply meaningfully be engaged in a mutually symbiotic discuss of sincere knowledge transfer in the true spirit of the ideal christian character of humility and love? Leave all this derogatory name calling tactic it won't take you anywhere. hmmmm se you dey hear. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by newmi(m): 9:17am On Nov 06, 2010 |
Joagbaje: anyway joagbeje, l must commend you for deeming it wise as a matter of necessity to initiate such a humane topic. one of my very favourite Bible verse on this topic of discuss is Proverbs 31:9 [i]Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.[/i] it takes greatconcern to consider those who are not perhaps as previlleged as some of us have been granted to be by a show of divine grace. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by newmi(m): 9:26am On Nov 06, 2010 |
for instance when you hear statistics like this presented by the CNN, that throughout the world, over 900million people do not have access to clean drinking water topics like this ought to become morethan ever at the forefront of serious delibrations by all concerned faithfuls of the gospel of love. Thats why l don't understand what exactly is the problem of that young man (kunleshob), When he should be making meaningful contributions as to how best this concern could be more appropriately given a viable avenue of realistic expression, he is busy aguing and calling names as if anybody gives any two rat's head. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by newmi(m): 9:39am On Nov 06, 2010 |
Another scripture l love somuch is that in Job 29:11-12 11 When the ear heard me, then it blessed me; and when the eye saw me, it gave witness to me: 12 Because I delivered the poor that cried, and the fatherless, and him that had none to help him. verse 12 explains why verse 11 made any sense or possible. Then in James 1:27 27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. Matthew 25:36-40 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 2Ti 1:16; Jas 2:15-16 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. As christians, we are encouraged to regularly remember and consider the poor and less-previlleged considering that our plenty, liberty, opportunities, abundance and freedom are all gives of trust for us to be inspired to extend a hand to others who are not somewhat on an equal parametre as we are. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by KunleOshob(m): 12:35pm On Nov 06, 2010 |
@newmi I wld appreciate it if you stopped refering to me as young man as it is highly unlikely you are as old as myself. That aside unlike you and joagbaje, I have always been an advocate of true christian giving on this forum which means giving to the poor and less priviledged. I can only pray that joagbaje means what he wrote on this thread becos being a CE pastor means that he has been trained in the art of manipulative hypocrisy like his oga oyaks. @joagbaje Trust you to go and look for bible version with poor and manipulative translation to prove your assertions, which version is TLB again? Was it written by pastor chris? You keep demonstrating your penchant for butchering scriptures which you disdain. May God save you from this hypocrisy you involve yourself with just to keep food on the table. |
| Re: Remember The Poor by KunleOshob(m): 12:50pm On Nov 06, 2010 |
More biblical warnings against cruel and greedy preachers/people. Proverbs 30:14-15: There are people who take cruel advantage of the poor and the needy; that is the wat they make their living[sounds familiar] 15 A leech has two daughters and both are named "give me!" We can safely conclude from the above that any person or institution whose teachings on giving is primarily to give to them are leeches. This reminds me of several of my friends who have left CEC becos of the leech like behaviour of CEC on their resources. Their complaint was that they were being manipulated to give 40-50% of their income to CE under various scams such as tithes, first fruit, offer 7, partnership offering, seed sowing etc without the promised benefits ever materializing in their life. Only the chief leech [oyakhilome] and his cohorts were prosperity whilst majority of the members who are poor and wretched remained in their abject poverty. |
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