Our universe is guided by laws and principles, everything working in a symbiotic functionalism/parts.
where there are laws and principles; there are cause and consequences, recurring familiarity and phenomena.
thus; we live in a programmed universe; a predetermined setting. but within the human environment with what we call destiny and chance is only manipulated by what we call free will.

food for thought ? why are there laws & principles ?,
who made these laws & principles ?.

When God created everything, he created man and angels. if we were to put ourselves in his shoes as fellow creators and in a creating the mentioned two above we will face the situation of whether or not to either give the beings free will or just be robots (without free will)

Advantages of the latter was that what you will create will do everything you command it without hesitation, rebellion or malfunction.
but the disadvantage lies in what you want to achieve with being. as a creator you want a being that freely interacts with you and has a relationship with you at its own accord, and is a being like you. so no free will won't give you that. they would function as machines or animals. & so where is the fun and enthusiasm in that especially creating a very beautiful and bountifully resourced earth ?

Now as creators we then opt for inputting free will in those beings but there is a catch
if we were to give this beings free will there is that 000.2 probability that it might rebel, sin or disobey some commands. (remember laws and principles were set up/established before we humans exist in the universe & earth)

So God knew the risk like we all do

And its worthy to note these commands that you expect these beings to follow are like manuscripts or codes that make a computer function the way you expect it, or a ceiling fan, a car, a phone, a TV, etc
so let's say as a creator you made a ceiling fan and gave it free will with full knowledge of the risk & someday while someone is sleeping under it ..the fan decides to unhook itself & descends on the person either it wanted to intentionally kill the person or that it wanted to fly which it wasn't designed to. how about that TV you turn on & off everyday & one day it says I don't want to be watched because it has free will

so was there a risk God took ?

yep there was & it carried devastating consequences in which we can see all around us this day ? and my we humans don't know how our sins affect our physical environment because i believe consequences has a ripple effect, it ruptures and can shake the very foundation of things.
this isn't rocket science but spirituality & how entwined it is with the metaphysical.

so yeah Lucifer rebelled, God saw that coming; to me I say wow because it wasn't a lower angel that manipulated 2/3 of God's angels and betrayed him but a high ranked one close to God, this action Lucifer did we could see transcend in our various histories. many leaders (both good & bad) betrayed by those closest to them

And then Man followed, God too saw that coming.
& why ?

our roles in life carry certain responsibilities and where there are responsibilities there will be recurring tests like Lucifer with his high ranking status & music talent and Man (Adam & Eve) with the simple instruction of not eating from a single forbidden tree while there were many other fruit bearing trees even the tree of eternal life. come on Adam & Eve, Lucifer's fall I get because being on a high status can get to your brain but your own test was to not eat from a tree, as simple as that.

So in all disobedience, hate and sinning against God by we humans scientifically stems from that 000.2 probability.


Can God fix this problem ?

yes, it started with banishing the rebellious angels who can never be forgiven again because they were eternal spirits & a secluded tormenting place awaits them. pretty sure the remaining angels in heaven got the message

then for the human race (seriously we are extremely lucky being that we still in the corrupted flesh)
+God brought Salvation through Christ.
+then now the gospel is being preached circulating around the whole world.
+then what will follow is rapture
+ & finally destruction & judgement

What a well crafted plan by a Creator


What the plan was set up to achieve is to eliminate that 000.2 probability.

Won't you my fellow creators ?
our God the programmer is good at maths.

That 000.2 probability is a virus in us all, what eliminates it is love & loyalty, Christ is our perfect example because firstly he had free will like us & the angels (& yea could have rebelled, he has a higher status before and after when he came on earth).
on earth he faced diverse temptations as well even Satan spared some of his time to personally tempt him to his side like he did with Adam & Eve. (many of us are being harassed today by small demons but back in Christ days they coward, wailed, pleaded and ran away, even feared certain disciples like Paul, & some contemporal pastors & children)
Where was I yea so the whole plot/plan in the event of rapture & judgement on humans is solely to get those who although have free will fall in line to his commands without an iota/inkling tendency to rebel especially when they are fully spirit beings.

Now the reason for their loyalty to God won't be based on fear or coercion but out of love and understanding him; the reason behind every command.

its typical when children don't understand where their parents are coming from especially like when they tell you to do this or that (the right instructions not the bad ones) rather they go against it, become emotional, curse and carry out other misbehaviours. (a certain Cain comes to mind)

In conclusion its about separating the wheat from the chaff & this statement is not about particularly separating believers and unbelievers, or sinners & Christians but holistically those that are doers of God's will out of love and conscience.

Remember there are many verses in the bible that informs how the wheat will be separated from chaff, even some believers didn't make it.

The creation of beings with free will would always be a risk and consequences that would follow can be devastating.
its not God's fault but an inevitability that even no human that was in shoes would avoid or manoeuvre around because free will is free will; it is an erratic feature subject to conform to an internal or external influence.


guess free will isn't that free after all

by Prince Kabal
Gospel teacher

If a rapist was about to rape your sister and you were in a position to stop the rapist, would you allow the rapist to continue to exercise their free will and rape your sister or will you prevent them from carrying out the act?

LordReed:
If a rapist was about to rape your sister and you were in a position to stop the rapist, would you allow the rapist to continue to exercise their free will and rape your sister or will you prevent them from carrying out the act?

to be honest your question has no foundation...
it relates not to the topic.

free will was given for a reason, I didn't go full detail on it but focused more why Free will itself was a risk but good at the same time. if you don't know what to comment or comment reasonably hold your peace than steer up a foolish argument.

you don't have to wait for God to cross the road or avoid being robbed. that's free will. but a twisted free will can make a person allow a person rape his sister.
because no one is perfect so expect the most crazy actions from humans

There is nothing like free will,. The Earth is purposely made for human, hence we are put in control

Believe me,. If God want you to be his servant,. Whether you like it or not,. You will be his servant

What you call free will, is the Higher consciousness that we have, which is why we are aware of ourself, our action, our thoughts, which other animals does not have

And that is why God said, Let imus create man according to us, because they have Higher consciousness to aware of them self, the Spirit think just like we do, but in a more accurate and powerful form

So, there is nothing like free will itself,. We are just put in control of Earth

Hmm

ElidaxZiel:
There is nothing like free will,. The Earth is purposely made for human, hence we are put in control

Believe me,. If God want you to be his servant,. Whether you like it or not,. You will be his servant

What you call free will, is the Higher consciousness that we have, which is why we are aware of ourself, our action, our thoughts, which other animals does not have

And that is why God said, Let imus create man according to us, because they have Higher consciousness to aware of them self, the Spirit think just like we do, but in a more accurate and powerful form

So, there is nothing like free will itself,. We are just put in control of Earth

Hmm

God is just and his purposed plan for mankind he won't change anyhow. self awareness isn't free will even robot has that. free will comes down to the action to either do, not do or undo. That's why Christ stresses on the doing. free will exists and occurs in our daily life. the right and bad decisions we make stems from free will.

if free will didn't exist why did God test Adam & Eve, Abraham even Christ ?
free will exists but it has its restraints because it must conform to various chosen desires. less all you will have is madness

being put in control yes
but remember Adam gave that control to Satan when on his own free will chose to disobey God.

Thank God that control came back to man through Christ

Inteltower:


to be honest your question has no foundation...
it relates not to the topic.

free will was given for a reason, I didn't go full detail on it but focused more why Free will itself was a risk but good at the same time. if you don't know what to comment or comment reasonably hold your peace than steer up a foolish argument.

you don't have to wait for God to cross the road or avoid being robbed. that's free will. but a twisted free will can make a person allow a person rape his sister.
because no one is perfect so expect the most crazy actions from humans

It is very on topic. If you say your god gave all its creatures free will and refuses to act to prevent harm because of free will then you expose your god concept as a wicked one because I know surely you will not stand by and watch your sister get raped. If this your god is that wicked to stand by and watch evil befall its creatures in the name of freewill then I see no reason to hail this god as anything but an incompetent or wicked being and never as one worthy of anything approaching honour or regard. In fact the god should be treated contemptuously, the same way you treat the gods of your forefathers.

LordReed:


It is very on topic. If you say your god gave all its creatures free will and refuses to act to prevent harm because of free will then you expose your god concept as a wicked one because I know surely you will not stand by and watch your sister get raped. If this your god is that wicked to stand by and watch evil befall its creatures in the name of freewill then I see no reason to hail this god as anything but an incompetent or wicked being and never as one worthy of anything approaching honour or regard. In fact the god should be treated contemptuously, the same way you treat the gods of your forefathers.

blah blah blah...
if you think God is Superman then you are delusional.
aren't there laws and principles which carry reaction and consequences when applied?

if you where a god with your barbaric opinion you will keep bending the laws and principles; a standard you have set just because of creatures you created that repetitively go against your will. so you will constantly cover them from the consequences they merited/brought upon themselves.. even when they had the free will not to. so as you are you will keep enabling That things don't run the way you have set it because of emotion.
that's the difference between us & God, emotions don't cloud his judgement and he has been always fair & just to everyone. even those that perished in Sodom & Gomorrah they received mercy at the judgement day because they never received the gospel.

your argument is that of an emotional sadist who fails or doesn't want to understand who he is. That God you call wicked has standard, even brought salvation to an already corrupt & dark world.

answer me was he the cause ?

you think everything is magic that he should snap his fingers and every problem and evil would just go away.

if you were a creator what would do ?
create a man with free will or create a robot.
if the latter you & i won't be speaking or doing what we are doing now but motionless awaiting the command of our creator.

if you know what's right do it, not when you do wrong you keep expecting a Superman to rescue you not wanting to bear the responsibility.

let your children keep doing wrong and you keep covering them from consequences let me see how that turns out in future. that's the so called love you are preaching

Inteltower:

(1)Can God fix this problem ?
(2) Guess free will isn't that free after all.

Freewill is none~negotiable when thinking of creatures made in the likeness of God like angels and humans!

The problem here is that unlike God who is HOLY, creatures can choose whether to be holy or not!

The word Holy means COMPLETELY PURE!

Remember that God has been ALL ALONE from everlasting, so there is no need for him to be jealous or envious of what's not. But after creation, angels and humans had the tendency to start comparing themselves to their likes thinking of who is greater?

Of course they all accepted that the one who has been existing before anyone is the greatest, but amongst the intelligent creatures (angels and humans) WHO SHOULD SUBMIT TO WHOM?

Well the first creature God made before creating the others spent countless years with him so this one knew everything about his God. Therefore he was HOLY just like his God and father.

Other creatures were made later, these one came to being in thousands and then competition began regarding who is greater, that's when the trouble called evil thoughts began!

(1)God is fixing it now, as he is gathering obedient humans to form new inhabitants as he wanted it to be from the beginning!

(2) As regards freewill, it has always been RELATIVE.
Even the Almighty God has subjected himself to relative freedom whereas he supposed to have absolute freedom!
So both spirit beings (angels) and intelligent fleshy creatures (humans) need to understand that as long as you're still learning to fully understand your body, environment and you're going to deal with other intelligent beings, you can't exercise ABSOLUTE FREEDOM!

Our freewill is RELATIVE not ABSOLUTE!

Inteltower:


blah blah blah...
if you think God is Superman then you are delusional.
aren't there laws and principles which carry reaction and consequences when applied?

if you where a god with your barbaric opinion you will keep bending the laws and principles; a standard you have set just because of creatures you created that repetitively go against your will. so you will constantly cover them from the consequences they merited/brought upon themselves.. even when they had the free will not to. so as you are you will keep enabling That things don't run the way you have set it because of emotion.
that's the difference between us & God, emotions don't cloud his judgement and he has been always fair & just to everyone. even those that perished in Sodom & Gomorrah they received mercy at the judgement day because they never received the gospel.

your argument is that of an emotional sadist who fails or doesn't want to understand who he is. That God you call wicked has standard, even brought salvation to an already corrupt & dark world.

answer me was he the cause ?

you think everything is magic that he should snap his fingers and every problem and evil would just go away.

if you were a creator what would do ?
create a man with free will or create a robot.
if the latter you & i won't be speaking or doing what we are doing now but motionless awaiting the command of our creator.

if you know what's right do it, not when you do wrong you keep expecting a Superman to rescue you not wanting to bear the responsibility.

let your children keep doing wrong and you keep covering them from consequences let me see how that turns out in future. that's the so called love you are preaching

The delusional one is you. You don't believe in superman but you believe in a magic sky daddy that made you from dirt.

If I was a creator and I made creatures with "freewill", I would still act to prevent them from bringing harm to themselves, the same way I do for my children as a responsible parent. When your children grab sharp objects just leave them to injure themselves because you are not barbaric.

Inteltower:


God is just and his purposed plan for mankind he won't change anyhow. self awareness isn't free will even robot has that. free will comes down to the action to either do, not do or undo. That's why Christ stresses on the doing. free will exists and occurs in our daily life. the right and bad decisions we make stems from free will.

if free will didn't exist why did God test Adam & Eve, Abraham even Christ ?
free will exists but it has its restraints because it must conform to various chosen desires. less all you will have is madness

being put in control yes
but remember Adam gave that control to Satan when on his own free will chose to disobey God.

Thank God that control came back to man through Christ

Alot of human, doesn't know what they call free will,

For a human to exist,. Independent decision making is a must , and not an external ability

All biological being has ability to making decisions based on their level of self awareness

Animal can decide to go right or left,. They can decide, just like we do. The difference is the level of our self Awareness

do you think an imbecil e has free will,. ? NO because they are are not fully aware of themselves

What am saying is that,. What you call Free Will is not actually free will but, just Self Awareness + Independent decision Making,.

The Meaning of the real free will is îwhat alot of human don't know but if you ask I may enlighten you


God test Adam and Eve loyalty and not their free Will

LordReed:


The delusional one is you. You don't believe in superman but you believe in a magic sky daddy that made you from dirt.

If I was a creator and I made creatures with "freewill", I would still act to prevent them from bringing harm to themselves, the same way I do for my children as a responsible parent. When your children grab sharp objects just leave them to injure themselves because you are not barbaric.

you can be emotional all you want. love and loyalty is the bedrock of free will.

you can twist it the way you want
since you don't know him & don't want to its a waste of time casting precious pearls towards you. because no matter how I try to explain to you. your pride & emotion will keep clouding your judgement.

you can continue arguing with your self. even the child you as illustrations l grows up when he grabs a sharp object keep taking it away from him telling the world that your adult son is still immature & a toddler.

you forget Christians have the word of God that guides them on evil/dangers to avoid.

keep being emotional and running away from the examples I have countered you in. only to jump to another unnecessary argument.

peace ..this is my last reply to you.
you can continue bickering all you want

ElidaxZiel:


Alot of human, doesn't know what they call free will,

For a human to exist,. Independent decision making is a must , and not an external ability

All biological being has ability to making decisions based on their level of self awareness

Animal can decide to go right or left,. They can decide, just like we do. The difference is the level of our self Awareness

do you think an imbecil e has free will,. ? NO because they are are not fully aware of themselves

What am saying is that,. What you call Free Will is not actually free will but, just Self Awareness + Independent decision Making,.

The Meaning of the real free will is îwhat alot of human don't know but if you ask I may enlighten you


Good test Adam and Eve loyalty and not their free Will

I understand what you mean.

the reason to test loyalty is dependent on free will.

loyalty doesn't exist if the person wasn't tested to make a choice. and choice is the dependent on decision. thus; free will

Inteltower:


I understand what you mean.

the reason to test loyalty is dependent on free will.

loyalty doesn't exist if the person wasn't tested to make a choice. and choice is the dependent on decision. thus; free will

Hmm, let us just call it free will of making decision, and not FREE WILL,. because free will itself is a different thing,

LordReed:


It is very on topic. If you say your god gave all its creatures free will and refuses to act to prevent harm because of free will then you expose your god concept as a wicked one because I know surely you will not stand by and watch your sister get raped. If this your god is that wicked to stand by and watch evil befall its creatures in the name of freewill then I see no reason to hail this god as anything but an incompetent or wicked being and never as one worthy of anything approaching honour or regard. In fact the god should be treated contemptuously, the same way you treat the gods of your forefathers.

baseless arguement.....
always think before you type, don't type before reasoning...

BOFREJO:

baseless arguement.....
always think before you type, don't type before reasoning...

LoLz! The airhead brigade is here. You dunderheads always get antsy when the reality of the nonsense you believe hits you like a ton of bricks. The only response you can formulate is insult because your brain CPU has overheated.

Inteltower:


you can be emotional all you want. love and loyalty is the bedrock of free will.

you can twist it the way you want
since you don't know him & don't want to its a waste of time casting precious pearls towards you. because no matter how I try to explain to you. your pride & emotion will keep clouding your judgement.

you can continue arguing with your self. even the child you as illustrations l grows up when he grabs a sharp object keep taking it away from him telling the world that your adult son is still immature & a toddler.

you forget Christians have the word of God that guides them on evil/dangers to avoid.

keep being emotional and running away from the examples I have countered you in. only to jump to another unnecessary argument.

peace ..this is my last reply to you.
you can continue bickering all you want

If as an adult I still have to prevent my child from injuring himself like I did when he was a baby then I'd consider myself a failure as a parent. Conversely, your god is the greatest incompetent in all of fiction, even bumbling Mr. Bean is better than your god.

Maximus69:


Freewill is none~negotiable when thinking of creatures made in the likeness of God like angels and humans!

The problem here is that unlike God who is HOLY, creatures can choose whether to be holy or not!

The word Holy means COMPLETELY PURE!

Remember that God has been ALL ALONE from everlasting, so there is no need for him to be jealous or envious of what's not. But after creation, angels and humans had the tendency to start comparing themselves to their likes thinking of who is greater?

Of course they all accepted that the one who has been existing before anyone is the greatest, but amongst the intelligent creatures (angels and humans) WHO SHOULD SUBMIT TO WHOM?

Well the first creature God made before creating the others spent countless years with him so this one knew everything about his God. Therefore he was HOLY just like his God and father.

Other creatures were made later, these one came to being in thousands and then competition began regarding who is greater, that's when the trouble called evil thoughts began!

(1)God is fixing it now, as he is gathering obedient humans to form new inhabitants as he wanted it to be from the beginning!

(2) As regards freewill, it has always been RELATIVE.
Even the Almighty God has subjected himself to relative freedom whereas he supposed to have absolute freedom!
So both spirit beings (angels) and intelligent fleshy creatures (humans) need to understand that as long as you're still learning to fully understand your body, environment and you're going to deal with other intelligent beings, you can't exercise ABSOLUTE FREEDOM!

Our freewill is RELATIVE not ABSOLUTE!

nice..I get your point.

BOFREJO:

baseless arguement.....
always think before you type, don't type before reasoning...

that's all they can do argue baselessly with clouded emotions, they just want to sound right.
those who hate God will look for reasons to criticize him. but they themselves aren't a consistent living good example to others on what is right or wrong

LordReed:


If as an adult I still have to prevent my child from injuring himself like I did when he was a baby then I'd consider myself a failure as a parent. Conversely, your god is the greatest incompetent in all of fiction, even bumbling Mr. Bean is better than your god.

don't get too emotional,. I know you really expect alot from God, concerning how things is been done,.

But you still have to remember Spirit don't have emotion,. They don't really feel your pain but instead they recognize your boldness and bravery

You just have to heal first , because I know you are really angry toward the spirit, Just as they Watch us, play the game of Life, in a disturbing manner

Truth to be told, if you want to have anything do with the spirit, you need to forget the emotion

Because in life, some people are meant to suffer while others enjoy,

To an average human, that would be painful Emotional

But to the spirit, it reallity

So you see. Don't get too emotional.

But you just need to see things the way the spirit see them,. Then collectively we can manage reality , to aleast favour alot of people

The Spirit Love Us,. But They have not choice than allow us grow through difficulty


It's a hard decision for them,,,. So first you need to forgive THEM SPIRIT , then seek for THEM. Trying to get an explanation,. You will be surprise how much they Love us. All the Best Man

LordReed:


LoLz! The airhead brigade is here. You dunderheads always get antsy when the reality of the nonsense you believe hits you like a ton of bricks. The only response you can formulate is insult because your brain CPU has overheated.

disgusting

LordReed:


LoLz! The airhead brigade is here. You dunderheads always get antsy when the reality of the nonsense you believe hits you like a ton of bricks. The only response you can formulate is insult because your brain CPU has overheated.

disgusting

Inteltower:



that's all they can do argue baselessly with clouded emotions, they just want to sound right.
those who hate God will look for reasons to criticize him. but they themselves aren't a consistent living good example to others on what is right or wrong

You're correct Bro !
"Always proving intelligent" but retarded

BOFREJO:

disgusting
disgusting

Yes you are dismissed.

ElidaxZiel:
don't get too emotional,. I know you really expect alot from God, concerning how things is been done,.

But you still have to remember Spirit don't have emotion,. They don't really feel your pain but instead they recognize your boldness and bravery

You just have to heal first , because I know you are really angry toward the spirit, Just as they Watch us, play the game of Life, in a disturbing manner

Truth to be told, if you want to have anything do with the spirit, you need to forget the emotion

Because in life, some people are meant to suffer while others enjoy,

To an average human, that would be painful Emotional

But to the spirit, it reallity

So you see. Don't get too emotional.

But you just need to see things the way the spirit see them,. Then collectively we can manage reality , to aleast favour alot of people

The Spirit Love Us,. But They have not choice than allow us grow through difficulty


It's a hard decision for them,,,. So first you need to forgive THEM SPIRIT , then seek for THEM. Trying to get an explanation,. You will be surprise how much they Love us. All the Best Man

LMFAO! That's the problem with playing these games with you people you actually think the abstractions I am making is an indication of my true beliefs. When will you learn? I am using a tool to get you folks to look at the things you believe critically, it doesn't mean I expect anything from your imaginary sky daddy.

Well if your god and his cohorts of spirits don't have emotions it may explain why the concepts sound like the fevered dreams of madmen. For that you have my sympathies.

BOFREJO:

disgusting
disgusting

ATHEISM is the most disgusting idea ever on this planet, but when self acclaimed professors in worthless fields comes together to unite against Godliness, what do you expect?

They are contesting the idea of a Creator all because each one of them wants ABSOLUTE FREEDOM!

That's why their thoughts will disgust you when they're allowed to spew what's in their hearts. Luke 6:45

Have you ever been to where these worthless fools gather to talk about progress?
Well they are Barbarians! Each is only seeking his own personal glory so they can't agree on anything worthwhile.

It's only against religion (the one and only institution that's been rendering them harmless and hopeless as they've been trying to turn themselves to Gods over their fellow man) that they wish to speak in one accord, yet if you carefully listen and thoroughly meditate on the utterances of each one of them, you'll realize that they're all bunch of psychopaths!

LordReed:


LMFAO! That's the problem with playing these games with you people you actually think the abstractions I am making is an indication of my true beliefs. When will you learn? I am using a tool to get you folks to look at the things you believe critically, it doesn't mean I expect anything from your imaginary sky daddy.

Well if your god and his cohorts of spirits don't have emotions it may explain why the concepts sound like the fevered dreams of madmen. For that you have my sympathies.

Your Excellency Professor LordReed, all protocols duly observed Sir!

Last time i accused you that you claim Jesus never existed, you vehemently refuted it saying you believe that a Jew named Jesus actually walked this planet.

Please the questions that made you run away from me ever since then;

If you believe that Jesus actually lived as a man on this planet,
Can you just tell us few of the things you knew about him?
And please don't forget to tell us where you got the info!

Thanks Sir!

Maximus69:


ATHEISM is the most disgusting idea ever on this planet, but when self acclaimed professors in worthless fields comes together to unite against Godliness, what do you expect?

They are contesting the idea of a Creator all because each one of them wants ABSOLUTE FREEDOM!

That's why their thoughts will disgust you when they're allowed to spew what's in their hearts. Luke 6:45

Have you ever been to where these worthless fools gather to talk about progress?
Well they are Barbarians! Each is only seeking his own personal glory so they can't agree on anything worthwhile.

It's only against religion (the one and only institution that's been rendering them harmless and hopeless as they've been trying to turn themselves to Gods over their fellow man) that they wish to speak in one accord, yet if you carefully listen and thoroughly meditate on the utterances of each one of them, you'll realize that they're all bunch of psychopaths!

gbam !!!