1StopRudeness:


But u guys keep saying number 2 isn’t feasible in Nigeria....because I know many medical professor with little or no clinical research to their name..
Meaning there’s a part of these above criteria that isn’t or totally fulfilled..Hence, there’s abuse somewhere or non-standardization
if u guys are not subject to any form of educational system that will handle the these criterias,i.e a medical degree ( atleast u guys all get ur degree from a university not the NMA), several clinical research, and publications.....at some point, anyone can claim professor.....

TonyeBarcanista:
Doctors in academics should go do PhD. Forget story!

yinchar:
See doctors all over this thread, as if they are doing surgical operation.....

NUC have spoken, if you are a medical doctor and wants to lecture is the University go and obtain your PhD, it's not by force.

For those medical doctors that are not that smart enough to do PhD or value their fellowship that much, they should continue practising their medicine.

How can you compare fellowship to PhD (known and Unknown)

We not talking about "equivalence". The question is that is it PhD degree? Simple! If you like do fellowship for 50 years.

@1StopRudeness Are all these justifications really coming from our medical doctors!!!

nelszx:

Oga I've seen pathologists with PhD though not in Nigeria
You'll see Danilmo, O. MD, PHD.

The NUC just adopted the American format, not because you are a consultant you'll start to lecture Medical students. If you don't have a PhD please stay in the clinic.

afrodoc2:


That is not the American format.

While having a PhD is a bonus it is not a requirement to teach in a medical school in the U.S.


You people will just sit down in your little hut in Rumuola and start fabricating what you don’t know.

1StopRudeness:


You are funny man...independent research isn’t for medicine ?? Medicine is based on what is known to work??
So research is only about cellular level or mouse model Experimenting?? And later you will say Africa is backward....

From the area of saying NUC is wrong...if there’s anything good that will come out of this, there will be some order...cos I still wanna know how u people get ur professor title

nelszx:

Please do educate me

Jokerman:


Engineering is what??
Law is what??

Do you see engineers complaining as youse all the time??

yinchar:
What a bunch of illiterate medical doctors saying "PhD is cosmetics"

All over the world, a PhD or equivalent is required as a minimum qualification to join academic positions at lecturer level and above at any University.

A PhD exposes one to a narrower field but at greater depth and understanding.

Most medical doctors that are teaching our medical students are just holders of MBBS which is a Bachelors degree equivalent to having BTech or BSc in Engineering. However, with residency periods, we can subjectively agree/disagree its equivalent (but not) to Masters.

Irrespective of the aforementioned, to be a lecturer in a proper University you need to have a PhD, there is no shortcut about it.

1StopRudeness:


You ddnt answer me....all of u refuse to answer ...how do U guys get your professor title..??

If u don’t want medicine to be subject to the principles of an academic programme...then it shouldn’t be part of a standard university programme...It should just have its own college like a pilot training school or NDA where u just dive into practicals/training but last I checked it’s still a course Obtained from the 4walls of a university

allthingsgood:

shift abeg
u that knows it so well yet remain unqualified
si ebea puo biko

blowjohn:




Which stupid rigors?
Can u compare a medical professor to other professors?
Ur comparing ordinary PhD to the rigors of becoming a professor in the clinical sciences?
What value does it add to teaching cos teaching of medical students is more of a practical thing if one wants results.

nelszx:

Oga I've seen pathologists with PhD though not in Nigeria
You'll see Danilmo, O. MD, PHD.

The NUC just adopted the American format, not because you are a consultant you'll start to lecture Medical students. If you don't have a PhD please stay in the clinic.

Dave233:
basic medical/Dental Degrees(equivalent to Masters degree), 6 years residency plus 3 years fellowship=9
Then numerous published articles in both local and international journals.
This is exactly what is practiced abroad. In America, using basic medical/dental degree to apply for a lecturing job(Faculty Job) qualifies you for the position of Assistant Professor. Are you cleared now?

afrodoc2:


So PhD is the one that is more standard?
What people are buying in Naija while barely stepping in class?

Also who will be the supervisor for all these specialists that suddenly have to go for PhD in order to teach medical students.

If they enforce this useless rule there won’t be enough lecturers to go round.
Many universities might have to close down their colleges of medicine due to inadequate number of lecturers.
Then fewer people would graduate as medical doctors.
Then you people will be happy as you will need to depend on herbalists and witchdoctors.

obi4eze:


Maybe NUC actually goofed by allowing them lecture and become Professors without PhD in the past but it seems they realized their error.

The consultants want to continue becoming Professors without PhD. I laugh! Do they actually know the rigors of becoming a PhD holder?
They are not bigger than NUC that regulates them so if NUC says they cant become Professors without PhD then they should either join their colleagues who go on to acquire PhD or get out.

0m0nnakoda:
A medical school does not need to be part of a university. Traditionally they stood alone just like ICAN and going forward medicine can stand o it's own.
You do not need a university to study medicine rather a MEDICAL SCHOOL with access to a general hospital
The profession is big enough to ditch NUC and have it's own equivalent and exclusive body to perform the same function
Ultimately medicine is a professional pursuit involving APPRENTICESHIP

Medical education can successfully be removed from universities without problems

If the Nigerian Defence Academy can stand alone then so too can a medical school

GerogeI:


Last you checked, within the walls of a University, Medical Schools are well carved out, different from every other program. Stop making the ascertion that it is just like any other academic program, cause it is not.

It is a 7 year program, Engineering us just 5 years, and that's the closest, all the others are 3 years. It is based on experience, so fellowship will always be worth more than experimentation.

It is the most tightly regulated area of human endeavour. Not even Nuclear Engineering has so many rules, watch dogs and censors
I am not a Medical Doctor by any means, but let's stop being stupid and masking it as intelligence.

That's how we dropped an educational system that has been tested by developed countries for yielding volumes of mid skilled workers to power industrialization and went for 6334 system where the bulk of the output are impractical BSc holders who now end up riding okada.

afrodoc2:


What do you think i am doing?

obi4eze:


Maybe NUC actually goofed by allowing them lecture and become Professors without PhD in the past but it seems they realized their error.

The consultants want to continue becoming Professors without PhD. I laugh! Do they actually know the rigors of becoming a PhD holder?
They are not bigger than NUC that regulates them so if NUC says they cant become Professors without PhD then they should either join their colleagues who go on to acquire PhD or get out.

1StopRudeness:


Lol... herbalist and witch doctor.....lol
For starters, u keep saying it like no body has a PhD in medicine? The supervisors can also be medical acadamics.....one of the main issues with doctors is that u guys don’t wanna be subject to anyone for any reason....but this is all for the good of medical science and development..

Next, many univeristy wont have to fold up cos this won’t be a fire brigade excercise. It will likely be a 20year regularization journey...there was a time when bachelors and masters degree holder were the bulk of our senior lectures in universities....u see bachelors holders having professor titles....it was gradually regularized and the regularization is still ongoing cos some schools don’t have enuf PhD holders yet hence experienced masters and bachelors holders are still senior lecturers

nelszx:


You still haven't, you only threw subtle jabs

afrodoc2:


I never said that no one has PhD in medicine.

What i said is that it is not a requirement to teach.

For instance the current heads of Orthopedic Surgery, Emergency Medicine, Ophthalmology, Dermatology at Harvard Medical School do not have PhD.

All they have is their medical degree and their fellowships.

This thing doesn’t affect me cos i left the country long ago, but it makes no sense.

They focus too much on titles and flash in that country, rather than substance.
This is not the way to mprove medical education in the country.

afrodoc2:


In the best universities in the world the format is basically the same.

1) Medical degree, then

2) Specialization in your field which would include clinical research, then

3) Taking a leadership role in clinical teaching of medical students, mentoring junior colleagues during their residency i.e specialization training, then

3) Publication of your work in recognized outlets e.g reputable journals or books.

PhD is not compulsory in clinical medicine. It is only important in pre-clinical courses without established residency programs like Biochemistry, Physiology, Microbiology e.t.c . In clinical fields it is inferior to specialization.......WORLDWIDE.

nelszx:



You still haven't, you only threw subtle jabs

sykeng:


PhD 2 years maximum? Fear God ooo

1StopRudeness:


Ascertions?? How?? I never said medicine is the same with any course, why will I say so... all course are different, unique and difficult in their own way....
That’s the problem with doctors, u always want to make it look like u did the hardest thing in the world..... I’m not here to dialogue ur duration in the university or how hard ur course is and I ..but no matter how Special u want medicine to be or claim to be, u guys don’t get ur degrees from NMA or some medical college devoid of university regulation.....why is this difficult for u to digest ?? Is this a lie?? Or another assertion...it’s still an academic degree issued by a university body.....

Look I respect doctors especially those trained with real live dead bodies from year two anatomy.....but until u guys successfully carve urself out of university umbrella and stand alone like a pilot school or War college...u will have to be subject to university conditions

ElSherriff:
LOL...it is not rigorous at all. Buy forms, find a problem area, state your problems and justification and then complete a Ph.D. It is as simple as ABC.


What no one has mentioned is that the University is not a teaching institution alone. It is much more inclined to research than to teaching. If you must make impact as a teacher, you must be capable of original thought and philosophy. Ask yourself: why are there very few ground breaking research contribution from the medical sector to globally recognized journals?

Since it is bean cake, test yourself and complete it after all medicine is the alpha and omega of education. Little wonder y'all earning peanuts and poorly recognized!

By the way, I have completed a Ph.D and I have medical doctors as siblings, my wife is a doctor and both my inlaws and doctors as well.

Meninmen:



What is this one saying. The fellowship certificate that a consultant holds is far superior than a PHD.

Before you can become a consultant in the medical field, you will have to train for 3 years. Then you go and write your part 1 exams. After passing your part 1 exam, you train for another 3 years, in which you must submit your dissertation and sit for another exam called part 2 exam. After passing your part 2 exam, you become a fellow (consultant, for easy understanding). That means, for a doctor to become a consultant, you must have spent a minimum of 6 years in training (including writing papers). Minimum I said, because in some areas you spend 7 years or more.

How many years do you spend to get your PhD?

Let me stop here. But don't ever equate lecturing in the medical field and other fields because lecturing in medical field requires clinical experience which you don't need your PhD to get.

I don't expect you to understand. This matter is deeper than you think

RisenPhoenix:


Give us another analogy for O&G, Orthopaedics or Paediatrics. What specific courses do lecturers in those fields have to get a 2.5 year Phd in, to 'know better' than a consultant with a 6 year residency please?



A Phd takes 2 years max if one is committed. Residency is a 5-6 year journey with publications and exhaustive work experience. How does a Phd holder qualify to he a better teacher than a consultant please?