CSTR2:

There is no way a medical doctor teaching community health knows better than a scientist with a doctorate in epidemiology on how disease is spread.

Community health also have residency training. Hope you know that? & there is no way u can compare a consultant community health physician with a scientist who major in public health.
some community health physicians also specialize in epidemiology, so what are you saying?

In the first instance, physicians were not supposed to go with the title Doctor. The title is purely academic with the highest academic qualification to teach. Equating residency to Ph.D. is laughable. Quite sad that most physicians who are Professors in Nigerian Universities are not Ph.D. holders.
Correcting an error that has been the norm by NUC is not out of place and NMA should stop this blackmailing behavior. Whoever wants to criticize this should check history, please.

Gentle20love:
But that's the right thing to do now. Must everything in this country be solved with strike action?
How can you be a lecturing medical doctor without PhD. Common sense should tell us that it doesn't work that way. Mtcheeew

A residency of 5-6 years is more rigorous than a PhD.

CSTR2:

Well, it can be streamlined.

Pure medical courses like Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Dentistry, opthamology, should be based on medical experience.
Which means consultant doctors should have the required professional experience to impact knowledge.

But applied scientific courses like community health, pathology and pharmacology, medical biochemistry e.t.c should be taught by specialists.
And those people should have a PhD.

There is a residency program for pathology.

Brother
You don't understand this thing.
Check what they do abroad. They now offer a MD/phD degree simultaneously in the medical field. 7years. That does not in anyway make that degree holder a consultant in anything but rather has the phD.
PhD is nothing in the medical field bro. It's like said cosmesis.
Please ask around on how to be a consultant and I tell you, no phD degree is equivalent and can be equivalent.
But it's also nice to do phD
To please make you understand, the Medical School has at least three faculties
Basic Medical Sciences- MBBS/BDS holders lecture directly but you'd need a phD to move on just like other departments. They teach the 100,200,300 level students or rather the basic medical courses Anatomy, Physiology and Biochemistry and so on
Basic Clinical Sciences- A MBBS holder cannot take this set of students, in most schools you must be a clinician i.e you must be a Consultant. And a PhD is an added advantage. Pathology is an example of area in this level.
Clinical Sciences- This is a core area for consultants such that you would need to be a Consultant before you can be hired in the University. A doctor of 100years experience is not employed, if you like have 2000phDs, you can't be employed. The training is clinical everywhere in the world. Having a phD maybe in basic medical or clinical sciences would be a better advantage.
Brother,I'm sincere no phD holder can supervise this guy's conveniently in our country.
Maybe in the future, we would have consultant phD holders who could do it.
To have a full grasp of who a consultant is, just ask a phD holder in basic sciences or Medical sciences in the Medical School ( there are lots of them) and he'd tell you more.

You could search online too.
Peace

CSTR2:

I am a chemical engineer.

From 400 level -500 level, only lecturers with doctorate took us in school.
300 level is for lecturers with atleast a masters.
That is the policy.

How much more in medicine that deals with human life and need highly experienced teachers.

"According to the group, PhD certificate though relevant but “doesn’t add value to any kind of treatment” adding that for a PhD holder to lecture efficiently, they have to be trained and get practical experience from the field".

This is ridiculous!!!!! Are we actually disputing the merits of getting a PhD as a lecturer?!

People arguing really need to read and see how it is done in the developed world.

Someone here said the hands on experience they get while working is enough? Seriously?!!!!!

So someone teaching a subject for many years, is better equipped to teach about it than another who is renowned for his research on the same subject?

Freddonance:



Community health also have residency training. Hope you know that? & there is no way u can compare a consultant community health physician with a scientist who major in public health.
some community health physicians also specialize in epidemiology, so what are you saying?

Specialising in epidemiology is exactly what I am looking for.
That is what will make them qualified to impact knowledge to students.

emapeteum:
In the first instance, physicians were not supposed to go with the title Doctor. The title is purely academic with the highest academic qualification to teach. Equating residency to Ph.D. is laughable. Quite sad that most physicians who are Professors in Nigerian Universities are not Ph.D. holders.
Correcting an error that has been the norm by NUC is not out of place and NMA should stop this blackmailing behavior. Whoever wants to criticize this should check history, please.

Does that mean the physicians in other countries aside Nigeria all have PhDs for them to earn the title Doctor?

We should be praying that academic union wins this ippis war with FG.. Because if they loss.. We won't be here talking about PhD and residency.. Because the teaching hospitals won't be paying us our honorary consultants salary..
It will be terrible.. Because we won't earn salary from the teaching hospital and the universities again...

Please read more about this things.
Over the years, what other countries do and I feel it can be done in Nigeria is incorporating the residency training with an Academic training such that after first two years in the residency training and having satisfied the examiners to move on to be a Senior registrar, you defend a MSc and after your part 2 to become a Consultant which is 3-4 years, you defend a phD and be awarded a MD degree. Most countries adopt this to blend the problem.

emapeteum:
In the first instance, physicians were not supposed to go with the title Doctor. The title is purely academic with the highest academic qualification to teach. Equating residency to Ph.D. is laughable. Quite sad that most physicians who are Professors in Nigerian Universities are not Ph.D. holders.
Correcting an error that has been the norm by NUC is not out of place and NMA should stop this blackmailing behavior. Whoever wants to criticize this should check history, please.

Jaqenhghar:

Thats because people dont know why they are employed / have forgotten their responsibilities. Thats why they will put their ego first before a common good

It really beats me. To come to think that people are clutching unto more than one job in a country where a larger percentage are unemployed is outright greed and wickedness.

obi4eze:


Maybe NUC actually goofed by allowing them lecture and become Professors without PhD in the past but it seems they realized their error.

The consultants want to continue becoming Professors without PhD. I laugh! Do they actually know the rigors of becoming a PhD holder?
They are not bigger than NUC that regulates them so if NUC says they cant become Professors without PhD then they should either join their colleagues who go on to acquire PhD or get out.

NUC is simply crazy on this one sir. Resident doctors spend upwards of 5 years specialising in their choice areas of medicine, they write part 1 and 2 exams before they become fellows.. what are they doing with a PhD again? Doesn't make an atom of sense and they need to do thorough research and have a knowledge of medicine before they talk trash. BTW, I'm a PhD and I know it's a lot easier than becoming a consultant paediatrician or gynaecologist in Nigeria.

post=86721235:

We @[color=#006600][/color] know what Doctors go through first hand,
PhD certificate though relevant but “ it doesn’t add value to any kind of treatment”.
The NUC’s decision is punitive and acting in error,
We believe that having fellowship acquired through residency was more vigorous,
which could be equated with PhD certificate,
That is residency training is purposeful,
while PhD is cosmetics'.
Only Medical Doctors in the house can comprehend our posts.

For once, I agree with your submission.

CSTR2:

Well, it can be streamlined.

Pure medical courses like Obstetrics and Gynaecology, Dentistry, opthamology, should be based on medical experience.
Which means consultant doctors should have the required professional experience to impact knowledge.

But applied scientific courses like community health, pathology and pharmacology, medical biochemistry e.t.c should be taught by specialists.
And those people should have a PhD.

that is how it is already, except for comm health.

What NUC wants is for clinical specialties like O&G, surgery, MEDICINE, ANAESTHESIA, COMM HEALTH, ORTHOPAEDICS and co, to have a PhD to teach medical students.

CSTR2:

Specialising in epidemiology is exactly what I am looking for.
That is what will make them qualified to impact knowledge to students.

That's why you are being told you don't know the scope of residency training. Residency has part 1 & part 2.
Part2 is a specialist Training.

So a community health physician by passing the part 2 exams in epidemiology is already a specialist in epidemiology

Obviously, you are not up to speed. Kindly go and ask any anatomist with a phD that you know.

CSTR2:
A doctor does not know about pathology than an anatomist with a PhD.

Doctor the go strike may God deliver us oh

CSTR2:
A doctor does not know about pathology than an anatomist with a PhD.

Unbelievable. hope you know pathology is different from anatomy?

[quote author=Israelidoctore post=86723036]https://www.dailytrust.com.ng/doctors-to-embark-on-nationwide-strike-over-nucs-phd-directive.html


Sorry, my guy, PhD is not cosmetic. It is just that we don't know what a Ph.D. is all about in this country. Would you say MBA is equivalent to Ph.D., HSE is masters? I believe residency is a purely professional training and not academic. Most of what they study and in all other fields are products of research obtained at a Ph.D. level. Please note that medicine is not an art but a science as well.

CSTR2:
A doctor does not know about pathology than an anatomist with a PhD.

lol!!

That's not true.

Yohh:
NUC just wants to cause unnecessary discord.
The rigor involved in getting fellowship with the paper work and research is more demanding than getting a PhD. A 5 to 6 years residency program that some spend a decade to finish.

1. I do not think the rigor involved is relevant to anything. That is not the correct argument.
Even among PhD courses some are more rigorous than others so what?
2,. The fact is medicine is a practical discipline like soldiering or flying a Jumbo jet


Imagine if someone came up to say only Phds can train pilots

Sure there are theoretical aspects to flying a plane but if Someone is going to teach me how to swim I need to know that they can actually swim

Relatively few doctors pursue a Phd so it is interesting to know where the universities will find these Lecturers


On a practical note. Even if it was a good idea there just are not enough PhDs to fill all Lecturer positions
Most doctors who teach in the clinical years are not paid for this.
Medicine is an apprenticeship profession and students learn THE SECRETS from their seniors in an apprenticeship model.
If you are in casualty and the victim of a bomb blast is brought in they are treated almost Always by people without even a Master's degree

[quote author=emapeteum post=86723677][/quote]it is also academic and clinicall, the doctors work, they read, they write exams, they also defend projects too

Yohh:
NUC just wants to cause unnecessary discord.
The rigor involved in getting fellowship with the paper work and research is more demanding than getting a PhD. A 5 to 6 years residency program that some spend a decade to finish.

So you haven't seen someone who spent twenty-one year to acquire PhD in Economics.

You will say "common economics"

AMvanquish:
Shouldn't experience matter more for Doctors. If we should be logical.

They can continue becoming doctors without a PhD, but not lecturer in the university.

They can’t bend the rules for them.

Note the Announcement ...NUC ... this is not their first disastrous statement!

Clinical training is different from classroom ooooo!

If you hear a PhD holder is a dedicated Academician most times he will use you to experiment Book Knowledge... You need someone who is versed in applicability always.

BTW overseas its Fellowship and sometimes only membership that gets you to Consultant status. And at that status you Lecture Oyibo students and train doctors and the system is working wella.

What will happen next is that there will be a greater exodus to greeneeer pastures... Once you have that PhD you probably will wantt much more dollars

ijustdey:


https://www.dailytrust.com.ng/doctors-to-embark-on-nationwide-strike-over-nucs-phd-directive.html

They should give them 2 years to be registered PhD students otherwise....

CSTR2:

I am a chemical engineer.

From 400 level -500 level, only lecturers with doctorate took us in school.
300 level is for lecturers with atleast a masters.
That is the policy.

How much more in medicine that deals with human life and need highly experienced teachers.

After 300L in medical school only Medical Consultants lecture medical student.
The point is phD is required to be a prof in preclinical classes in courses like anatomy,physiology,bch ,pharmacology,mcb,etc no one is arguing that but in clinicals ,its intertwined .academic qualification alone without field experience is nothing ..so to be a Fellow(Specialist) u must both be a researcher and clinician to be awarded the title

obi4eze:


Maybe NUC actually goofed by allowing them lecture and become Professors without PhD in the past but it seems they realized their error.

The consultants want to continue becoming Professors without PhD. I laugh! Do they actually know the rigors of becoming a PhD holder?
They are not bigger than NUC that regulates them so if NUC says they cant become Professors without PhD then they should either join their colleagues who go on to acquire PhD or get out.

For Basic Medical science departments (Anatomy, physiology, biochemistry, pharmacology, microbiology), yes a PhD is highly necessary but not for clinical science departments

I agree with the doctors, experience in the field is of more importance than a PHD u just sit in class n r given theoretical insites, on the field experience is very important.

Alitair:
Our President does not have PhD.

OMG
He doesn't even have Bsc

Even waec became a matter that needed the court to settle

See details below...

obi4eze:


Maybe NUC actually goofed by allowing them lecture and become Professors without PhD in the past but it seems they realized their error.

The consultants want to continue becoming Professors without PhD. I laugh! Do they actually know the rigors of becoming a PhD holder?
They are not bigger than NUC that regulates them so if NUC says they cant become Professors without PhD then they should either join their colleagues who go on to acquire PhD or get out.

The most reasonable comment so far.