if she's in Lagos, I'll advice her to go to the office of the public defendant at surulere along stadium. both parties would be invited and I am pretty sure there'll be a solution.
since they are engaged before the guys death I think she still has right to the guys stuff.
its just so painful that we women are always the epitome of another woman's problem, imagine the the attitude of the MIL.
it is well with your sis

Front page please


Your sister should leave their property but she must not release the baby.... Prayers plus competent lawyer would do...

eyinjuege:

Really....
I'm sure I remember seeing you on another thread telling us that a child born outside of wedlock belongs to the father, and nothing like the mother's family especially with regards to the Igbo culture.
Now, you're telling us same child which you agreed is the man's child cannot inherit his father?
A child that has the man's name as father on his birth certificate, a child that was never denied by the man at any point, and probably the deceased did the naming ceremony and named his child..

I'm sure you remember me on a lot of threads, but I can tell you for a fact that I have made no such comment about children born outside wedlock belonging to their fathers...not to mention that you claim I was typing all of it within the context of Igbo culture when I'm not even Igbo last time I checked...


So with that doctored deflection aside, I'm still waiting for you to tell us which family court judge you can appear before to argue that a child born outside wedlock has claims to the sperm donor's property.

princemillla:



Yes the show was rented in her name. Just confirmed from her.

UPDATE : the guys mum just sent someone to add padlock to the house and the shop.

If the shop has her name, then no worries. With a good lawyer, they will pay for tampering with the store

Sometimes some things are not worth fighting for. She should leave everything for them but keep her baby... It's hers. It's father ain't alive anymore so it's hers alone.

Engagement is not marriage, as it is now the guys mum is a case study, they are not married yet, so she might have an edge, but for the shop, if is in your sister's name fight 4 that one, is obvious ur sis and her ain't on the same page, b strong 4 ur sis her life and her unborn child shud be her focus, property can still be acquired, they might come 4 the child that's where ur sister's has her advantage, she shud not give in when that time comes, but let her make a demand not just a demand but demand everything DEMANDABLE

Women are not incubators for holding children that belong to men.

She has “ownership” of the child too. Not that you can really own a human being but we get the gist

sisisioge:
It is well o.

However, his properties are not technically hers because they weren't married. Anything belonging to the late guy should be returned to his family including his child . However, since the baby is still pretty young, your sister should just reach an arrangement that enables the family have assess to the child and care for him.

As per things in her own shop, that she could fight for as hers. I wish the family the fortitude to bear the loss and a special consolation to your sister. It is well.

princemillla:
Good noon guys pls I need the right input. Pls kindly read carefully and let me know how to best attack the issue.

NB : ignore any form of typos as am tensed while writing this.


I have a Lil sis who got engaged Last year. ThO she was pregnant befor the engagement.

Things were rosy after the engagement but along the line the young guy died last year December (2019).
Befor the guy died the wife delivered a boy.
Just immediately after the guy was pronounced dead, the guys mother collected both the landed property and car key from my sis.

Now she wanted my sis to come drop off a boy of 5months plus every property in their apartment to her (the deceased mothers) place. She also want to pick everything in my sis shop.



How do one tackle this issue house pls.

I know Yorubas refer to traditional marriage rites as engagement. Is that what you are talking about here? If so, then there might be hope for your case. If however, by engagement you mean a proposal and a ring, then the late man's family may get away with stripping your sister of his belongings since they were not married in any real sense of that word.

Its pure wickedness to attempt collecting a 5month old and her shop from the mum.

crackkhaus:

I'm sure you remember me on a lot of threads, but I can tell you for a fact that I have made no such comment about children born outside wedlock belonging to their fathers...not to mention that you claim I was typing all of it within the context of Igbo culture when I'm not even Igbo last time I checked...


So that doctored deflection aside, I'm still waiting for you to tell us which family court judge you can appear before to argue that a child born outside wedlock has claims to the sperm donor's property.

Family court. If the man was alive, the lady can even report him at any near police station and if he's working or has a source of income he will be made to sign an undertaking on how he will remit some money for his child's upkeep.

PS: There's human right department in every police station, our problem is ignorance

Mizwisdom:

Family court. If the man was alive, the lady can even report him at any near police station and if he's working or has a source of income he will be made to sign an undertaking on how he will remit some money for his child's upkeep.

PS: There's human right department in every police station, our problem is ignorance

Child/spousal support is not the same thing as having inheritance claims.
So I'm finding it hard parsing what you mean by ignorance in relation to the situation in the OP.


While you're right about what can happen IF the guy was alive, what we have here is a situation where he is very dead.

There's no one on earth she can get child-support from at this point, and there's no way in God's universe that her child has any claims to inheritance from a family she was not married into.

No insult intended, but they call children like that bastards (illegitimate).

cococandy:
Women are not incubators for holding children that belong to men.

She has “ownership” of the child too. Not that you can really one a human being but we get the gist

Whatever that's supposed to be is still funny. Children are their father's here in Nigeria. Hence the reason they bear their Fathers' names. Ofcourse, she would be in the childs life too. But may God help her and us all. Please dont start an argument tirade this morning...I no get strength.

sisisioge:




Whatever that's supposed to be is still funny. Children are their father's here in Nigeria. Hence the reason they bear their Fathers' names. Ofcourse, she would be in the childs life too. But may God help her and us all. Please dont start an argument tirade this morning...I no get strength.

Lol. It was a typo . I’ve corrected it.
It meant to say “You can’t really own a human being”. In the real sense of ownership. Like both mom and dad can’t really own kids as they will grow into independent adults someday. But I digress.

No one is out to argue with you.
You’re free to believe that your children aren’t really yours and you’re just a means for someone else to gain ownership of kids. But It’s free world

crackkhaus:

Child/spousal support is not the same thing as having inheritance claims.
So I'm finding it hard parsing what you mean by ignorance in relation to the situation in the OP.


While you're right about what can happen IF the guy was alive, what we have here is a situation where he is very dead.

There's no one on earth she can get child-support from at this point, and there's no way in God's universe that her child has any claims to inheritance from a family she was not married into.

No insult intended, but they call children like that bastards (illegitimate).

I agree, he can't claim inheritance since the man is dead. The only way he can get something is if the man's family accept him.

sisisioge:




Whatever that's supposed to be is still funny. Children are their father's here in Nigeria. Hence the reason they bear their Fathers' names. Ofcourse, she would be in the childs life too. But may God help her and us all. Please dont start an argument tirade this morning...I no get strength.

so the paternal grandmother has more right over a child than his own biological mother?

eyinjuege:
Sorry about the loss in your family.
However, let's not forget the deceased left a child that needs to be catered for.
The dead man's property may not belong to his fiancee, but his child has every legal right to his father's property.
No need to fight over anything, but let your family have a meeting with theirs to find out how they intend to contribute to the care of the child left behind. Is it from his father's estate, or they want to deprive the child of his inheritance?
If they decide not to contribute to the care of the child, it's going to be a tedious journey. Going to court to settle it (afterall, your sister should protect her child and get him what is rightfully his) or just accept fate that the child will be cheated.
Hopefully his family will be reasonable, but if they aren't na real gbege be dat.
May God comfort you guys

Nigerian law does allow for a child born within a marriage or otherwise to inherit from the father!

As can be imagined it’s not a seamless process and usually involves a long and tedious process where bad blood is brewed and brewed till all parties are drained.

Though I do not personally know these people I can tell that the property in question isn't likely to to involve a multi acre factory , homes in banana island and fleets of cars! The man’s family ate also crazy and ready to draw blood due to whatever point of view they may or may not have.


To me any imbroglio on these kind of thing is needless
The sister should close that chapter and move on as quickly as she can

crackkhaus:

Child/spousal support is not the same thing as having inheritance claims.
So I'm finding it hard parsing what you mean by ignorance in relation to the situation in the OP.


While you're right about what can happen IF the guy was alive, what we have here is a situation where he is very dead.

There's no one on earth she can get child-support from at this point, and there's no way in God's universe that her child has any claims to inheritance from a family she was not married into.

No insult intended, but they call children like that bastards (illegitimate).

That child isn't a bastard
A bastard is a child that has no known father,one which the mother is not so sure of who got her pregnant or who the dad denied being responsible.
The child is only fatherless now,his dad didn't deny him neither did his family

@op,thank goodness your sister didn't get married into that family, they are heartless.
A good MIL to be would draw the lady and her child closer as emotional support for the son she lost but instead she's fighting for money and property.
Your sister should just move on,hand over the property to the woman but keep her child

cococandy:


Lol. It was a typo . I’ve corrected it.
It meant to say “You can’t really own a human being”. In the real sense of ownership. Like both mom and dad can’t really own kids as they will grow into independent adults someday. But I digress.

No one is out to argue with you.
You’re free to believe that your children aren’t really yours and you’re just a means for someone else to gain ownership of kids. But It’s free world

Now this is funnier

Ok, maybe I didn't put it down well. Of course the kid is as much hers as he/she is the dead guy's. But ultimately, in our culture a child is expected to grow in his/her fathers house before adulthood. But now that the dad is dead, she should allow his family be responsible for caring for the child...arrangement could be decided on how.

Meanwhile, biko, no talk again, I get your point now! May God help them resolve the matter.

rain21:



That child isn't a bastard
A bastard is a child that has no known father,one which the mother is not so sure of who got her pregnant or who the dad denied being responsible.
The child is only fatherless now,his dad didn't deny him neither did his family

Actually, a child that has no legal or official tie with the father is a bastard even if he knows his dad or not.
That is what it is in our culture.
Irony.

Until the father accept him officially( documentation and or marrying the mum).

In this case, that child isn't one.

crackkhaus:

Child/spousal support is not the same thing as having inheritance claims.
So I'm finding it hard parsing what you mean by ignorance in relation to the situation in the OP.


While you're right about what can happen IF the guy was alive, what we have here is a situation where he is very dead.

There's no one on earth she can get child-support from at this point, and there's no way in God's universe that her child has any claims to inheritance from a family she was not married into.

No insult intended, but they call children like that bastards (illegitimate).

The child isn't illegitimate as marriage was on the way before the guy died. His family recognised the child too.

The guy never answered my questions as he was only out for legal battle which they will lose instead of ironing things out the good old way.

If the relationship between the lady and the guy's family were smooth, this will not be happening.

That child will be integrated into that family even if the mum later married. He will be holidaying with grandma, his late dad's things will be his automatically when he became a man but right now under the custody of the mum.

The family will even love her like their daughter because of the child.

We all come hard on the grandma forgeting she had her side of the story too.

Also this is Nigeria not the West.


Even in my strict culture, once u don carry wine meet the family and declare your interest and this happened, the child will go to the guy's family. It wasn't anybody's fault so the right thing should be done.

This thread should serve as warning to singles out there. Get marry properly before having kids .
How can a woman be this wicked? Your son died instead of mouring your son . All you care about is how to take everything he has by using force?

rain21:

That child isn't a bastard
A bastard is a child that has no known father,one which the mother is not so sure of who got her pregnant or who the dad denied being responsible.
The child is only fatherless now,his dad didn't deny him neither did his family

Perhaps you intend to write your own dictionary one of these days, and give your own meaning to words that have been in existing for centuries.

A simple cross-check of the meaning of a bastard would have educated you, but no, you want to teach me English language.

sassysure:

The child isn't illegitimate as marriage was on the way before the guy died. His family recognised the child too.

The guy never answered my questions as he was only out for legal battle which they will lose instead of ironing things out the good old way.

If the relationship between the lady and the guy's family were smooth, this will not be happening.

That child will be integrated into that family even if the mum later married. He will be holidaying with grandma, his late dad's things will be his automatically when he became a man but right now under the custody of the mum.

The family will even love her like their daughter because of the child.

We all come hard on the grandma forgeting she had her side of the story too.

Also this is Nigeria not the West.


Even in my strict culture, once u don carry wine meet the family and declare your interest and this happened, the child will go to the guy's family. It wasn't anybody's fault so the right thing should be done.

What's the difference between the two words bastard & illegitimate?

Look dictionary before you answer me oo..

babythug:

Nigerian law does allow for a child born within a marriage or otherwise to inherit from the father!

As can be imagined it’s not a seamless process and usually involves a long and tedious process where bad blood is brewed and brewed till all parties are drained.

Though I do not personally know these people I can tell that the property in question isn't likely to to involve a multi acre factory , homes in banana island and fleets of cars! The man’s family ate also crazy and ready to draw blood due to whatever point of view they may or may not have.


To me any imbroglio on these kind of thing is needless
The sister should close that chapter and move on as quickly as she can

Quote the law that allows for illegitimate children to inherit from their fathers.

I'm interested.

crackkhaus:

What's the difference between the two words bastard & illegitimate?

Look dictionary before you answer me oo..

Any one u like to call it.

He isn't one at all.
Had the guy not started the marriage rite.
Introduction is the beginning of a marriage rite in some places.

The grandma won't boldly demand for the child if its not accordingly.
Haba!

crackkhaus:

Quote the law that allows for illegitimate children to inherit from their fathers.

I'm interested.

I have recently lost my father and in a bid to tidy up estate matters, the lawyers showed to me the portion of the constitution which states that fixed assets left behind belongs to the “offspring”. Circumstances of birth are not limited as long as a child is deemed as an offspring he or she is entitled.

Let me see if I can get the exact portion of the constitution to back this up!

sassysure:

Any one u like to call it.

He isn't one at all.
Had the guy not started the marriage rite.
Introduction is the beginning of a marriage rite in some places.

The grandma won't boldly demand for the child if its not accordingly.
Haba!

Lol, we don't know if he had started marriage rites na...and even if it was started, marriage has not been officially done.
The OP only says they were engaged (Lord of the Rings things), so it's doubtful any rites had begun.

That aside, a bastard/illegitimate child is one who is born outside wedlock (by unmarried parents)... this is the simple definition. They both mean the same thing - the only difference is that while bastard is derogatory (insulting), the other is just a nicer way to put it.

A law court will use illegitimate, village elders and older family members from the last century will use bastard, modern people will just call it a love child from a baby mama/daddy, because we like to soften, make everything look cool and be politically correct.


The main point you made in your last comment which summarizes everything and which I agree with, is that the mother of the man simply does not like the OP's sister, she may even be blaming her for her son's death. This here is really the only problem to be observed.

If she did, the child could very well be given inheritance in their family BUT ONLY on their discretion, and not because he has a right to it.
When the child grows up and pushes to lay claim, he will be on his own because tradition will not back him up and neither will a law court - this is the kind of situation where only goodwill comes into play.

babythug:

I have recently lost my father and in a bid to tidy up estate matters, the lawyers showed to me the portion of the constitution which states that fixed assets left behind belongs to the “offspring”. Circumstances of birth are not limited as long as a child is deemed as an offspring he or she is entitled.

Let me see if I can get the exact portion of the constitution to back this up!

Please do.

I'm quite curious about this.

crackkhaus:

Lol, you don't know if he had started marriage rites na...and even if it was started, marriage has not been officially done.
The OP did say they were engaged (Lord of the Rings things), so it's doubtful any rites had begun.

That aside, a bastard/illegitimate child is one who is born outside wedlock (by unmarried parents)... this is the simple definition. They both mean the same thing - the only difference is that while bastard is derogatory (insulting), the other is just a nicer way to put it.

A law court will use illegitimate, village elders and older family members from the last century will use bastard, modern people will just call it a love child from a baby mama/daddy, cos we like to soften everything and be politically correct.


The main point you made in your last comment which summarizes everything and which I agree with, is that the mother of the boy simply does not like the OP's sister. This here is really the only problem to be observed.

If she did, the child could very well be given inheritance in their family BUT ONLY on their discretion, and not because he has any right to it.
When the child grows up and pushes to lay claim, he will be on his own because culture will not back him up and neither will any law court - this is the kind of situation where only goodwill comes into play.

I know what bastard or illegitimate is.
Gosh!
Go back to that man's post at the beginning.
He said they did introduction.
Also somebody here said introduction is part of marriage process.
I followed a thread here where a guy posted his wedding, introduction pictures.
From what I saw, introduction is actually a big deal.
It's like wine carrying in igboland so yes,that child is not a bastard or illegitimate one.
They need not go to court really if things work smoothly for them. It will be a natural transition to hand him over his father's property in this case mostly landed. By that time he is already living with them. Officially using their name etc so why will they deny him what is his father's?
Is he an attachee?
If they can deny him, why is the grandma after him?
Doesn't make sense.

Well,.I don't know how it happens some other places but I based my analysis on the little I know.


The major issue here is the relationship before introduction, after death between the grandma and the said lady.
For the sake of her son and her dead guy, she should overlook some stuffs and carve an emotionally stable future for her son.
I don talk my own

sisisioge:
It is well o.

However, his properties are not technically hers because they weren't married. Anything belonging to the late guy should be returned to his family including his child. However, since the baby is still pretty young, your sister should just reach an arrangement that enables the family have assess to the child and care for him.

As per things in her own shop, that she could fight for as hers. I wish the family the fortitude to bear the loss and a special consolation to your sister. It is well.

A child is not a property that can be transferred to anyone, constitutionally speaking, if a man isn't alive, the next available person to look out for the kid is the mother, the man's family have no single right over the little boy unless the woman approved of it.

As for the property, she should let go, they belong to the man's family since they weren't legally married.

babythug:


I have recently lost my father and in a bid to tidy up estate matters, the lawyers showed to me the portion of the constitution which states that fixed assets left behind belongs to the “offspring”. Circumstances of birth are not limited as long as a child is deemed as an offspring he or she is entitled.

Let me see if I can get the exact portion of the constitution to back this up!

You are right actually. Discrimination based on circumstances of birth is unlawful. Alfa males are probably not aware.

the Supreme Court finally resolved the uncertainty surrounding the inheritance rights of illegitimate children when it stated that:

...It follows therefore that the Igbo native law and custom which deprives children born out of wedlock from sharing the benefit of their father’s estate is conflicting with section 42(2) of the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, 1999 (as amended).

Section 42 of the Constitution entrenches the right to freedom from discrimination and section 42(2) particularly provides that no citizen of Nigeria shall be subjected to any disability or deprivation merely by reason of the circumstances of his birth. It is for this reason that an illegitimate child cannot be robbed of his right to inherit his from father’s estate (property).

Legal wives, nothing like “legal” children, as long as paternity can be proven (via DNA) or is confirmed.

-LEGAL spouses first.
-Offsprings
-Parents of the deceased
-Others can align after the first three.

OP’s sister has no case, the child has a case.