The world is watching is utter astonishment ,as more lives are being wasted in Libya.

But there is palpable silence from the muslim ummah.

When a non-muslim kills a muslim it is interpreted as 'war on Islam'. In the past one month over 500 muslims have being killed across the middle east & north africa by oppresive regimes,yet no one is saying anything.

Is killing of muslims by muslims ok??

Who says no one is saying anything??

I live in the US and there have been demonstrations by muslims across the US in solidarity with the egyptians and the libyans.

During the egyptian crisis, there were demonstrations in Turkey, Tunisia, Morocco, Indonesia in solidarity with the people.

But there is a limit to what we can do, Our prayers are with them

I want you to declare it 'war on Islam'

Egyptians are still demonstrating at Tahrir square in support of the people of Libya, so many facebook pages are opened in support of the cause too.

Killing is one of the greatest sins in Islam

illusion2:

Is killing of muslims by muslims ok??

What do you think?

BTW, this coming from you remains something of sheer surprise at least to me. It sounds so immaturely thought out question.

Aslmlykm. Read all your posts may allah guide us all. What's important as muslims is that for every new matter in our. Lives we should always refer back to the quran and the sunnah of the prophet for conclusions. Without doubt taken a muslims soul unjustly is a great matter in allahs religion which in many places has been condenmed by the shariah. But analysing this critically we should ask this question ;why muslim countries? Allah will not impose a tyrannical,blood thirsty, money embezzling ruler on muslims except we ourselves are not standing firmupon the correct teachings of our religion. Allah says if our affairs are inline, we donot associate partners with him, and work good deeds then he will shower upon us risq(provision) and children and he said he will make us firm in the land as muslm. doesn't this call for a sincere introspection as people that proclaim islam. We demand our rights from our rulers but do we give the most honourable of rights to the one that is most deserving, allah, perhaps only then can we truly rant over bad leaders,perhaps only then will allah give us good leaders, perhaps only then we will truly understand that the source of all the revolts which was a suicide which is forbidden in islam was never condenmed rather the guilty held up high as a hero (ironically can't the killings then be justified by gadaffi from his own point of view I.e if they honour killing themselve,don't I have more right to kill in my cause of establishing peace,stability and good governance, perhaps only then will we realise that the prophet had condenmed revolting against the leaders in numerous places including his farewell speech. as long as they observe prayers and do not associate partners with him, for the catastropic consequences that may follow I.e iraq, afganistan, still counting, so muslims let's not consume our selves joining this western propaganda of democracy and let's hold on to Gods teaching through only this can we reform

muhsin:

What do you think?

BTW, this coming from you remains something of sheer surprise at least to me. It sounds so immaturely thought out question.

Just like its futile to read the Koran out of context,you can't appreciate my question outside the entire post.

Read everything again and let me have your opinion.

abdul4hire:

Aslmlykm. Read all your posts may allah guide us all. What's important as muslims is that for every new matter in our. Lives we should always refer back to the quran and the sunnah of the prophet for conclusions. Without doubt taken a muslims soul unjustly is a great matter in allahs religion which in many places has been condenmed by the shariah. But analysing this critically we should ask this question ;why muslim countries? Allah will not impose a tyrannical,blood thirsty, money embezzling ruler on muslims except we ourselves are not standing firmupon the correct teachings of our religion. Allah says if our affairs are inline, we donot associate partners with him, and work good deeds then he will shower upon us risq(provision) and children and he said he will make us firm in the land as muslm. doesn't this call for a sincere introspection as people that proclaim islam. We demand our rights from our rulers but do we give the most honourable of rights to the one that is most deserving, allah, perhaps only then can we truly rant over bad leaders,perhaps only then will allah give us good leaders, perhaps only then we will truly understand that the source of all the revolts which was a suicide which is forbidden in islam was never condenmed rather the guilty held up high as a hero (ironically can't the killings then be justified by gadaffi from his own point of view I.e if they honour killing themselve,don't I have more right to kill in my cause of establishing peace,stability and good governance, perhaps only then will we realise that the prophet had condenmed revolting against the leaders in numerous places including his farewell speech. as long as they observe prayers and do not associate partners with him, for the catastropic consequences that may follow I.e iraq, afganistan, still counting, so muslims let's not consume our selves joining this western propaganda of democracy and let's hold on to Gods teaching through only this can we reform

mashAllah. I have seen, heard, participated in arguments concerning whether what is going on in the middle east is justifiable or not. At first, i had the notion that the revolution is justified considering that the Muslims in Tunisia would not be allowed to even pray under Ben Ali's rule.I thought the call for Freedom was right. Then came the crisis in Egypt, the loss of lives and the division over who would take over leadership and i started to wonder if anyone could be sure the situation wouldnt be worse than it was at the beginning.Then came my search for what Islam says on it and I found out that Islam disapproves of this and the only way out would have been to change our attitude as a people and pray to God for what we want(better leadership) and Allah knows best.

In all, I think everything is predestined. The Arab world isnt the model of Islam and its not surprising to see such things as this happening. I believe its like every other course of events that change the world, bringing us closer to the last hour.

abdul4hire:

Aslmlykm. Read all your posts may allah guide us all. What's important as muslims is that for every new matter in our. Lives we should always refer back to the quran and the sunnah of the prophet for conclusions. Without doubt taken a muslims soul unjustly is a great matter in allahs religion which in many places has been condenmed by the shariah. But analysing this critically we should ask this question ;why muslim countries? Allah will not impose a tyrannical,blood thirsty, money embezzling ruler on muslims except we ourselves are not standing firmupon the correct teachings of our religion. Allah says if our affairs are inline, we donot associate partners with him, and work good deeds then he will shower upon us risq(provision) and children and he said he will make us firm in the land as muslm. doesn't this call for a sincere introspection as people that proclaim islam. We demand our rights from our rulers but do we give the most honourable of rights to the one that is most deserving, allah, perhaps only then can we truly rant over bad leaders,perhaps only then will allah give us good leaders, perhaps only then we will truly understand that the source of all the revolts which was a suicide which is forbidden in islam was never condenmed rather the guilty held up high as a hero (ironically can't the killings then be justified by gadaffi from his own point of view I.e if they honour killing themselve,don't I have more right to kill in my cause of establishing peace,stability and good governance, perhaps only then will we realise that the prophet had condenmed revolting against the leaders in numerous places including his farewell speech. as long as they observe prayers and do not associate partners with him, for the catastropic consequences that may follow I.e iraq, afganistan, still counting, so muslims let's not consume our selves joining this western propaganda of democracy and let's hold on to Gods teaching through only this can we reform

deols:

mashAllah. I have seen, heard, participated in arguments concerning whether what is going on in the middle east is justifiable or not. At first, i had the notion that the revolution is justified considering that the Muslims in Tunisia would not be allowed to even pray under Ben Ali's rule.I thought the call for Freedom was right. Then came the crisis in Egypt, the loss of lives and the division over who would take over leadership and i started to wonder if anyone could be sure the situation wouldnt be worse than it was at the beginning.Then came my search for what Islam says on it and I found out that Islam disapproves of this and the only way out would have been to change our attitude as a people and pray to God for what we want(better leadership) and Allah knows best.

In all, I think everything is predestined. The Arab world isnt the model of Islam and its not surprising to see such things as this happening. I believe its like every other course of events that change the world, bringing us closer to the last hour.

Please have a look at this thread : https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-616702.0.html ,focus on the message not the messenger,please ma'salaam.

illusion2:

Just like its futile to read the Koran out of context,you can't appreciate my question outside the entire post.

Read everything again and let me have your opinion.

It's becoming too amazing especially when I remember that it's the same illusion2 (although I fear or maybe someone used his username then) who clearly shows that he understands Islam's stand on killing of innocent souls.

Read this, please: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-359506.768.html

Thanks to you all.

both the protestors and ghaddafi are hypocrites, i see no mercy in them, you have ghaddafi killing innocent people, you have protestors killing innocent immigrants, they are both hypocrites, to hell with libya

Well, its so disgusting to realise that, Lybians who are a nation clothed, fed, protected, payed and medically-catered for are involved in some senseless Rioting. This simply proves to a higher degree how Western conspiracy still has an impact on the Other people. Beware!!! my muslim brothers.

lord-ray:

Well, its so disgusting to realise that, Lybians who are a nation clothed, fed, protected, payed and medically-catered for are involved in some senseless Rioting. This simply proves to a higher degree how Western conspiracy still has an impact on the Other people. Beware!!! my muslim brothers.

Ok,so it actually the 'West' killing the dear muslims through Gaddafi

asllykm praise be to allah may peace be upon his prophet.adding to what lord ray said, a lot of muslims distort their understanding by believing in a biased stereotype ideology with which the western(or anti islam) entities seek to pushand instill unto our minds. A major example is democracy. A system of the people, for the people and by the people,the first two aspects 'of and for' are perfect terms for a system governing a people who are vicegerants of the whole land where this rules take effect, But the last- by the people' is indeed the problem how can a people who control so little of their affairs, struggling to maintaain their existence, unable to avert disasters, enact perfect laws!?verily if they did then these laws would be plagued with unlimited flaws whichwill transcend to chaos with evry little try for perfection. For mankinds intellect is one with limits, but advertently or not when ideologies like this are being propagated a silent conspirator that lurks in the backgroung whispering into the hearts of mankind is shaytan the devil,for he has vowed to mislead man from all sides.may allah save us from this. As muslims therefore we should obey and follow the teachings of the quran and our last prophet in evry single affair of ours,not failing to outline the benefits of the sharia to others,and when this benefits are appear obscure, we fear allah's retribution for to him we shall return and when this becomes difficult we should be patient and seek the mercy of allah.so in essence revolting against a leader is not from the way of muslims even more so when this muslims are not lacking as said by lordray

abdul4hire:

so in essence revolting against a leader is not from the way of muslims even more so when this muslims are not lacking as said by lordray

EVen if a leader is corrupt and going against the Shariah and naming his green book the best guide for mankind? pls Muslim are expected to uphold Justice and the Shariah when it is trampled upon by a leader even Umar R.A said if I go wrong put me right then a person in the crowd said we would put by the sword' a leader responsibility is very weighty not something that is a mere joke and to crown it all, leadership isnot just about lacking but about principles and values, and did ALLAH say lead by mutual consultation, Hence have Gadft lead by that, do you know how many people he has masscred, i am utterly disappointed of this statement credited to you.

abdul4hire:

asllykm praise be to allah may peace be upon his prophet.adding to what lord ray said, a lot of muslims distort their understanding by believing in a biased stereotype ideology with which the western(or anti islam) entities seek to pushand instill unto our minds. A major example is democracy. A system of the people, for the people and by the people,the first two aspects 'of and for' are perfect terms for a system governing a people who are vicegerants of the whole land where this rules take effect, But the last- by the people' is indeed the problem how can a people who control so little of their affairs, struggling to maintaain their existence, unable to avert disasters, enact perfect laws!?verily if they did then these laws would be plagued with unlimited flaws whichwill transcend to chaos with evry little try for perfection. For mankinds intellect is one with limits, but advertently or not when ideologies like this are being propagated a silent conspirator that lurks in the backgroung whispering into the hearts of mankind is shaytan the devil,for he has vowed to mislead man from all sides.may allah save us from this. As muslims therefore we should obey and follow the teachings of the quran and our last prophet in evry single affair of ours,not failing to outline the benefits of the sharia to others,and when this benefits are appear obscure, we fear allah's retribution for to him we shall return and when this becomes difficult we should be patient and seek the mercy of allah.so in essence revolting against a leader is not from the way of muslims even more so when this muslims are not lacking as said by lordray

Democracy is not a 'western idea'. Every country has its own unique system. as long as your legitimacy as a leader is gotten from the people its democracy.

China has its unique system ,just as the US system differs from the UK and Iran's system differs from Pakistan or France. Its dificult to adopt another country's system ,which is one of the problems we have in Nigeria.

But don't fall into this trap (like Boko Haram) where anything you can't explain or attribute directly to the Koran is from the devil.

The prophet mohammed even encouraged muslims to seek knowledge as far as China (non-muslims),so please open your mind.

The world is a very complex place,never look at it as just black & white.

Hey, I like this thread.

Aslmlykm praise be to allah and blessings on his messanger and those that tread his path till the day of judgement, vendax when the sharia says no to revolt as I explained in my first post is doesn't justify the cruel ways of the rulers,infact to sooth any bokoharm tendencies(extremism) ill quote this authentic narration, the prophet says that whoever rules over a people and is unjust with the trust over him that allah will forbid janah for him'(not verbatim) by allah this is sufficient for us as muslims if indeed we find him unjust, is like you having kids and them saying daddy since u disobey any commandments of god(and indeed we all do) then I will strip u of all the rights u have over me, let's see u cope with that-anarchy-chaos, congo ironically the west takes pride in flaunting all expressions of this particular form of democracy that is widespread, and you hardly see a nation but its system has adopted some part of it I.E a post of president,vice president,house of assembly,house of commons,or a term limit for an entire government e.t.c for those dissident countries they are either perpetualy imposed sanctions, branded babaric and eventually forced out of power, lastly the anti islam part, in issues where islam has legistated then it is haram to seek for another law, but for issues like wearing baseball hats,suits,transacting with them, going to study even up to phd and adopting any of the disbelievers ways as long as this isn't exclusive to them then all these are allowed and Allah knows best

Also _____shine when u say as long as your legitimacy is gotten from the people its democracy, So let's assume libya is a country of 6million.,and then a few thousands in arms revolt against the president, does this depict an unpopular president or is this a case of a government's opposition taking on a violent campaign?, I mean when do u consider them as criminals and charge them with treason, who should the international bodies support?- as the country being a soverign state,member of un,oau,opec, or was the government illegitimate all this while and still a member country, should they all just clamor for the rulers removal if he decides to quell the uprising even through force? And if it were a 'democratic state would this be different? If I want to topple the current regime in this country are u saying gathering thousands of people in eagle square abuja is sufficient for contries like france to recognise my camp as the legitimate representative?? Or if thousands of armed people gathered enroute to white house with a mission to topple the regime they would be served chocolate muffins!? Allah knows best

Congo, the hadith seek for knowledge even as far as china is not authentic but the meaning as with regards to beneficial knowlegde stands ,google it up for a more detailed reference

abdul4hire:

Aslmlykm praise be to allah and blessings on his messanger and those that tread his path till the day of judgement, vendax when the sharia says no to revolt as I explained in my first post is doesn't justify the cruel ways of the rulers,infact to sooth any bokoharm tendencies(extremism) ill quote this authentic narration, the prophet says that whoever rules over a people and is unjust with the trust over him that allah will forbid janah for him'(not verbatim) by allah this is sufficient for us as muslims if indeed we find him unjust, is like you having kids and them saying daddy since u disobey any commandments of god(and indeed we all do) then I will strip u of all the rights u have over me, let's see u cope with that-anarchy-chaos, congo ironically the west takes pride in flaunting all expressions of this particular form of democracy that is widespread, and you hardly see a nation but its system has adopted some part of it I.E a post of president,vice president,house of assembly,house of commons,or a term limit for an entire government e.t.c for those dissident countries they are either perpetualy imposed sanctions, branded babaric and eventually forced out of power, lastly the anti islam part, in issues where islam has legistated then it is haram to seek for another law, but for issues like wearing baseball hats,suits,transacting with them, going to study even up to phd and adopting any of the disbelievers ways as long as this isn't exclusive to them then all these are allowed and Allah knows best

abdul4hire:

Also _____shine when u say as long as your legitimacy is gotten from the people its democracy, So let's assume libya is a country of 6million.,and then a few thousands in arms revolt against the president, does this depict an unpopular president or is this a case of a government's opposition taking on a violent campaign?, I mean when do u consider them as criminals and charge them with treason, who should the international bodies support?- as the country being a soverign state,member of un,oau,opec, or was the government illegitimate all this while and still a member country, should they all just clamor for the rulers removal if he decides to quell the uprising even through force? And if it were a 'democratic state would this be different? If I want to topple the current regime in this country are u saying gathering thousands of people in eagle square abuja is sufficient for contries like france to recognise my camp as the legitimate representative?? Or if thousands of armed people gathered enroute to white house with a mission to topple the regime they would be served chocolate muffins!? Allah knows best

abdul4hire:

Congo, the hadith seek for knowledge even as far as china is not authentic but the meaning as with regards to beneficial knowlegde stands ,google it up for a more detailed reference

@abdul- When gaddafi overthrew the Libyan monarchy in 1969,one could argue he got his legitimacy from his people(just like the Egyptian military did last month to Mubarak),I hope this clarifies your question.

However,every system MUST and will continue to change.

If the same people that gave you some quasi-legitimacy in the past ,say they want a change in the system,you don't respond by killing them in cold blood.

This is 2011 !!! In the dark ages,you could quell dissent by crushing it with military might,but not in the modern world.

The question you must ask yourself is - the people asking for change ARE THEY AMERICANS OR LEBANESE ?? No ,they are Libyans,so they have a right to be heard.

So lets not put the blame on outsiders,let think things through thoroughly.

A good example is the situation in Nigeria,a nation that has so much resources ,yet more than half of the population lives in poverty. No electrical power,illiteracy is at scandalous levels & yet you say my asking for a fairer system is a 'western idea' ??

Please wake up !

U didn't seem to ansswer my questions? Anyways no unnecessary arguments. Thing is if a bunch of people revolt against a government then they are sinful if they succeed then it is forbidden to revolt against them and we take them as our rulers but if they fail and are killed then this is justified for their disobedience and they died in a sinful state.so let's not cause turmoil with our own hands and 2011 nor 2099, nor 3016 takes our minds away.the prophet said if you live long u willwitness a lot of differing so hold on to my sunnah with you molar tooth,and of those of the rightly guided caliphs. And so we had heard reports of companions that were alive during the reign of tyrants like hajjaj ibn yusuf(google him up and see how viscious he was he kiilled a lot of companions).this was someone that when he was sent as governor of the town he said that he knows they defy their rulers so he was going to be ruthless with them and indeed he lived up to that expectation such that companions in his presence would hide to perform their salat because he use to delay their salat atimes till when the time was about to expire.when a group of youth went to seek their opinions about revoltingthey told them to be patient, and by allah these were not cowards these were those that had participated in numerous battles,perhaps they knew what we didn't ,perhaps they feared the consequences including blood shed of muslims and allah knows best