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Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by guruinfinite(m): 2:55am On Apr 04, 2021 |
Theres no such thing as onthological prove cause prove in the actual sense is objective not subjective. Example of prove of something ie gravity exist. How? cause whether you are in Mount Everest you still experience gravity the same way I do. 1 Like |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by HealerH: 5:22am On Apr 04, 2021 |
HealerH: My cordial apology to my admirers who've been messing my post while I was on a ban. I apologize for not replying fast enough and retracting your intelligence-gone-astray interpretation of my reasoning. Please please and please. I didn't create this post to prove the existence of God. I'm too arrogant to do debates like that. Read the first lines of my post carefully. I clearly stated the purpose of this post. And for the mono-directional sophists using religious shortcomings to criticize me. Show me any sentence in my text where I declared myself an adherent of a particular religion. I evoked Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Traditional Religions. Where did I make a sentence declaring myself a member of any one of these religions? Those using biblical passages to criticise my text. Did I tell you I believe in the Bible? Did I mention the Bible anywhere in my post? Why are y'all embarrassing yourselves? I restate my stand. I'm on this post to expose the irrationality and the absurdity in Atheism. And I'm doing so with critical reasoning. None of you read anything dogmatic or religious in my reasoning. If you're intelligent enough to counter my claims, do so by strictly referring your arguments to the topic I'm into. Stop running your intelligence like a bicycle na-enweghi brake. Peace. |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by HealerH: 5:23am On Apr 04, 2021 |
I said I discovered God with critical reasoning and I can boast about it before any atheist because what he was unable to do is what I did. One lazy God-seeker came asking me to show them the God I discovered? Lol. You called yourself a scientific thinker. Yet you ask me to show you a result of an experiment you never was present to witness. Are you telling me you'll believe this result if I present it to you? I suppose No. I'm giving you a benefit of doubt of common sense. As a scientific thinker, you probably want to analyse the method I used to discover God and see if it respected the scientific norms of research. (This text in parentheses doesn't concern the current reflection but I'm putting it here to remind you of a very important absurdity I will be revealing in another commentator's post. The person criticised me for not taking metaphysical considerations in a reflection I did whereas everybody reading this post knows this post is targeted at atheism and atheism don't make room for metaphysics in a dogmatic way. Whereas the person I'm currently replying wants to know the scientificity in my discovery of God, another person wants to know why I didn't limit scientificity of reflection and give room to metaphysics. Confused people trying to drag me into their confusion) Back to the current reply. What are the scientific norms of research? I won't list them all. I'm just going to point out one that my critique is ignorant of. It is the norm which demands that the same apparatus/apparati used in an experiment be used in any other experiment that wants to ascertain the authenticity of the first experiment. Now the fundamental apparatus I used in discovering God is my reason. Someone is asking me to give them the result of my experiment so that they can verify it with their own reason. Anyone told you reason has a scientifically determined universal standard? Are you not a quack scientist for not knowing this? I stated it clearly in my post that each person make their experience of God (discover God) in a relative way that can never ever be universalized. And in all my text, you never found me universalising any particular experience made of God. Another person countered my scientific comparison of "adherence without proof" to one's maternity and to God. He said the two are two different things that should never be conpared. Lol. This is the commentator I meant when I said someone criticised me for not making room for metaphysics in my analysis. Now let me hit him the akpako of wisdom. First off, bear in mind the object of my reflections is the philosophy of atheism. And I stated in the beginning of my text that atheism is a failed attempt to discover God with reason and this attempt rejects FAITH (Metaphysics). I'm on this post to confront atheism on their own terrain. My terrain is fundamentally metaphysical (I'm one of the most profound metaphysicians to ever walk on earth. Help me drink 200 liters of water if you feel I boast a lot). I refused to use my main weapon (metaphysics) to confront atheism. I used pure science that was 100% percent constructed on reason. I used universal laws of science/reason in my confrontations (I don't know where else to insert this peace of knowledge so I try to put it here. I hope it doesn't digress from the current discussion. It's about the nature of scientific method. Do you know, science don't give a damn what your result is. What interests science is the procedure that led to your result. That's why this fellow is not asking me to show him the God I discovered so he can believe in him but because he wants to analysis the procedures I used). Lemme show you one or two examples of a universal scientific law before going on. 1+1=2. This fact is true anywhere on earth (anyone who defies it does it through dogmatism). Anywhere on this planet, whatever you throw up must fall down to earth (whoever tells you otherwise is being dogmatic and tell that person to get the hell out of my post). Anything on this planet that is corporal must have mass and occupy some space. These are universal scientific laws. Atheists adhere to them and I decided to have this intellectual rendezvous with them on these laws. Now the problem I discovered in atheism was not specifically on these laws: it was in the reverse version of the laws. If one of the universal laws of science stated that whatever is thrown up must fall down, the reverse version implies that whatever that fell down MUST have been thrown up. These is where atheists made a caricature of themselves. To formulate this reverse version in words, it means that «anything that is in motion started from somewhere» and this "somewhere" must have an experimental proof before the experimental truth of it's destination can be accepted. Atheism rejects a definitive affirmation on the "somewhere" of existence because they all know it is above reason. It is purely metaphysical. Then they try their best to find out the "to where" (destination) of existence. Can someone come from nowhere and arrive at somewhere? Common sense is not that common fellas. I think I've digressed a lot already on this commentary. The bottom-line of my lines here is that I am criticising a scientific atheism with scientific reasoning. You're typing off-point if you start criticising me with metaphysics. And the scientific criticism I put forward to atheism on maternal certainty is that this latter is unscientific and inadmissible as truth because no one experienced their mom giving birth to them. We all simply believed and had faith that the woman we call our Mom gave birth to us. Now if you suddenly realised that existence is fundamentally metaphysical and that one must bring in an absolute being from the back-door of reason and live existence in accordance to the principles of this absolute being, why not bring in the absolute being and live your life? Why do you refuse to do it yet you are certain it needs to be done? If you're not certain it must be done, (that is, that one's existence is determined by his idea of an absolute being) why did you criticise me saying I shouldn't compare maternity certainty with divine certainty because the admission of the latter determines the teleology of one's existence? Are you not being confused and lazy? And are you not being a quack scientist by refusing metaphysics in the universal laws of science yet admit metaphysics in this scientific reflection I did? I don't run away from metaphysics. It's my specialty. I'm simply being scientific in my reflection because that's the language understandable to atheists. So if you want to criticise my reflections, remain strictly on scientific criticism. If you want a metaphysical reflection on existence, go create a trade on that and invite me. I promise to give you one of the greatest metaphysical lessons ever given. Just chose a side and stick to it. Stop being shaky. And all these ones making debate about proof of God's existence and which religion is the true religion. Get the hell out of my trade!!! I'm not here to discuss God's existence you wannabes. None of your religions interests me. Go create your own trade and discuss your God and your religion. Stop making a joke of my wisdom! I'm here to confront the rationality in atheistic apologies. Every comment should revolve around this topic and not your mediocre religions. Peace |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by HealerH: 5:25am On Apr 04, 2021 |
I'll be spitting wisdom school. I'm here for biz. |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by MrColdsweat: 6:43am On Apr 04, 2021 |
guruinfinite: Gravity is a scientific theory. Science is subjective i.e subject to human observation and experience. Even according to this science, there are frequencies you can see beyond i.e there are millions of things that happen around us that we cannot see. How then can you use your eye and observation as a yardstick for existence when you cannot see everything that happens around you? When your tool is insufficient, do you say the job cannot be done, or do you try another tool? You have tried logic and reasoning, they haven proven to be insufficient. Try faith. 1 Like |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by MrColdsweat: 6:52am On Apr 04, 2021 |
Firstnebo: I greet you sir. Happy Easter. |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by hopefulLandlord: 7:44am On Apr 04, 2021 |
MrColdsweat:Ontological proof is a stupid argument. I doubt you even know about 80% of what you've been writing here but simply blurt out words to sound knowledgeable 2 Likes |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by HealerH: 7:50am On Apr 04, 2021 |
hopefulLandlord: Y'all should get the hell out of my post if you'll keep discussing proofs of God's existence. This post was not created to discuss that. Let whatever argument you make here have it's source from my post. |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by Ketamine9000mg(m): 1:25pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
MrColdsweat: I actually mentioned the guy because he claimed to have found god but failed to clarify it. Now that you pointed out that god can't be found but experienced, the matter don dey scatter. Maybe one day, Jehovah, Odin, Olodumare, Jupiter and Zeus will visit me and I will be overwhelmed by conviction. I look forward to experiencing god(s). Whatever you think you know but can't explain it to another person, you don't understand it yourself. Abeg, I don tire and na my last pen I take write this thing...any further baseless quote, I go leave am for Amadioha and Obatala to reply. Maybe una go understand their godly languages better. We go see for junction. 1 Like |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by MrColdsweat: 2:03pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
[s] hopefulLandlord:[/s] You mean you doubt if I know that atheists are fools? Of course I do. I know very much that atheists are fools. Afterall, I was an atheist for almost a decade. I've been on both sides, and I can tell you that there's no bigger foolishness than atheism. When you little boys got no defense, you resort to personal attacks. Una never start. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by Martinez39s(m): 2:11pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
HealerH:There is no confusion or irrationality in atheism. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in gods and deities; this lack of belief is virtually due to the absence of solid evidence and sound argument for the existence of any gods or deities. No believer has ever presented any of these. Mind you, I'm a lover of humans. I try my best to show humans the way... It's my way of healing the world. As a lover of humans, I'm not an enemy of atheists because I suppose they're humans. I'm only trying to show them the way for I see them like my little brethren that need to be educated.Very well then, let's see the education you have in store for us. Am I sounding too arrogant? Per favore. Atheism is a failed quest to discover God through critical reasoning. I discovered God through critical reasoning. Why I no go boast? You don't expect me to go around fire and not sweat.Atheism is not a quest to discover god; it never was. It's simply the lack of belief in any deity due to lack of evidence and lack of sound argument for any deity's existence. You don't believe in the a pink, invisible, ageless, unicorn playing endlessly on planet Neptune for the very same reason atheists don't belief in gods: there is no reason to believe such; no evidence for such, no sound argument for the existence of such. It will be ridiculous to say that your lack of belief in that unicorn is a fail quest of some sort. So this is how I'll develop this post. I'll be updating it regularly with my new findings on atheism.I wonder what these findings on atheism are. The absurdity in Atheism.It is true that we don't experience everything and we operate on assumptions and intuition in many cases; however, this doesn't mean that any claim a man makes or believes in should be readily accepted without evidence. It doesn't really make the god you believe in real. You can't say god is real by faith because we believe in certain things that are true by trust. Over a hundred gods are believed in by faith, which is the true god? If faith is a reliable tool, why did it lead to different gods? Either one is correct or all are wrong. By the way, we have good reasons to trust doctors: modern medicine works, they keep on producing results, we are aware of their limitations and they are therefore reliable. Besides, if I trust that the two loving people comfortably raising me are my biological parents and I turn out to be wrong, it has no bearing on my eternal destination in the supposed afterlife and I lose nothing much. If it turns out that my blind trust in the scientists' report that we breathe in oxygen is wrong, I lose nothing and my life moves on without any consequences on the eternal destination of my supposed soul. (Let's pretend to ignore the fact that science is based on evidence, science works; if any scientific fact was wrong, someone can point it out with evidence and win the Nobel Prize and cash that comes with it. Finally a hypothesis must have passed the burden of proof to be rendered a scientific fact. SO THERE ARE GOOD REASONS TO TRUST SCIENCE.) However, god's existence is of utmost importance as a belief or disbelief in his existence has serious consequences, both to a believer's eternal destination and to his/her system of religious beliefs. Hence, it is pertinent that a proof of god be demanded. Besides, there are many gods out there. Wouldn't evidence be useful in locating the real god so that we don't worship the wrong god and end up in the ''hell fire'', if any, of the true god? If there are no gods or if at least the religious god of a particular believer doesn't exist, wouldn't it render the believer's holy book and belief system false? For example, if people realize that Jesus never existed, wouldn't it render the bible false and reveal it to be a compilation of fables? Given that it's god's will that a right belief in his existence ensures our salvation and the all-powerful and loving god really wants us to be saved and avoid the nameless infamy and endless torture and torment in hell, rightfully and understandably asking (him) evidence for his existence isn't so much to ask. An all-knowing god knows what will convince a man of his existence, an all-powerful god can easily do what will convince a man of his existence, and an all-loving god wants every man to be saved to avoid the eternal suffering and torment of hell. Given this, isn't it suspicious that there is no shred of evidence or sound argument for his existence? Human life shows no evidence of divine presence or intervention, and events always occur and proceed as one would expect if a god (especially an intervening and all-loving one) doesn't exist and humans are left to fend for themselves as they are hopelessly subject to the laws of the natural world, laws that will never be suspended for the sake of anyone. <====================> Atheist 2 : If God exists, why does evil exist?You wasted this paragraph rambling about what I don't know when you could have just gone straight to the point. God and Evil? Who told you evil exist? And how did the person define "evil" for you?A spurious argument! Religious gods, especially abrahamic gods, have repeatedly promised protection for their followers and those that abide in them. Given these promises and the fact that abrahamic gods do purportedly intervene in human affairs (usually in a range of manifestations from direct utterances, or through a prophet, to supposed signs, miracles and wonders.) and clearly answers prayer as promised or as seen in instances in the holy book, it is safe to ask why grave injustice, great misfortune, and evil exist, even against ardent and kindhearted believers? Why all these despite his promises and instances of miraculous intervention in the bible and other holy books? Given his attributes and well defined capabilities, why would he seemingly fold his arms when a little christian boy or girl is brutally raped? If the christian god rained down manna from heaven and caused water to come out of a rock, how come there are christians who starve or even die of hunger? Why does the self-proclaimed almighty and great healer seemingly do nothing when christians, however young or old, perish painfully and die of terminal diseases despite their prayers to him and faith? (Ephesians 3 vs 20, Jeremiah 32 vs 27, Matthew 7 vs 7) Shouldn't the case be different for the children of the almighty? The same miraculous protection he gave Daniel against the lions, the load of miracles, the battle he fought against the enemies of his people, or the same healing he gave to many in the bible is never seen in the life of any christian? I could list more and more instances, but my arguments will suffice; if they don't, then you couldn't be helped in the first place. Atheist: Bu, bu, but God created me. So as a handiwork of God, whatever comes out of me, evil or bad, has their origin in God.You must have a third eye to see unalloyed goodness in the eyes of a baby where others see corneas, pupils, iris and sclera. How do you know what you are seeing in a child's eyes is pure goodness if not that you made yourself believe such? You can say babies are harmless and innocent; we know this is because their minds know little or nothing and they can't do much and are utterly dependent. Can you say this is the way god created humans and intended them to remain? To be clueless, naive, incapable and highly dependent on adult humans for even the most basic activity like bathing and properly defecating? By the way, do you know babies lack a belief in any gods? Should we also remain like babies in this aspect? Man learnt evil the same way he learnt about god; however, we know human beings, most at least, are wicked because we have the capacity to understand good and evil yet we keep towing the evil route: isn't this the way the creator made man? Why cunningly act like if god made man to be only kind-hearted and wise in deeds then we lose our freewill? If god created man to be good and man turns out bad, isn't he a failed creator? We don't have a choice on the nature of our gender, sexual orientation, skin colour, or height yet you agree that we have freewill? Why can't you admit that we would have freewill even if we are naturally made kind-hearted and wise? Now there's a second definition of evil I normally should ignore but I fear most atheists here are not intelligent enough to know it's a false definition of evil. It's the "natural evil". The one I just discussed is the human evil.The problem is that god created nature and life and supposedly overseers his creation. Earthquake, tornado, volcanic eruptions that kill and bury people in lava, all forms of terminal cancer, HIV, ALS, famine and draught, birth defects, hereditary diseases, incurable diseases and defects, presence of predators or animals/insect that can poison and/or kill men were all created by god. If the all-powerful god, I mean the all-loving god who made us the focus of creation by making us in his image and sending his son to suffer and die for humans, (something he never did for any other specie.) wanted to create a better world for humans, he could have easily done it. Isn't it then safe to say that the world is the way it is because god wanted it that way or he doesn't just care? If he permits and settles on this evil world, they we must ask what kind of god is he? A good god worth acknowledging or a monster/brutally indifferent god not worth any acknowledgement? Also this observation is important to believers, especially adherents of abrahamic religions, because it brings up credible and sound suggestions: that their god is nonexistent, humans are not the center of creation (which negates the holy books), and we are just imperfect, insignificant creatures (like other creatures) in the grand scheme of things and we are left to fend for ourselves without the help of any divine deity while being subject to the laws of nature. This suggestion are hardly irrefutable, and they are sufficient to crumble the faith of any believer. ''Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. ''Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. ''Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? ''Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god?'' --- Epicurus (BC 341-270) to be continued .... hopefullandlord, 1Sharon, guruinfinite, judybash93, IAmMicheal, Thereddevil, Ketamine9000mg, MrColdsweat, MikeofKd, senchibi, Judgemrntyard, SunshineV, KillGod, akinlolu26624, Jashub 1 Like |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by Martinez39s(m): 2:11pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
continued... HealerH:You said a lot here without saying anything tangible or reasonable. These gibberish and piffle do not explain why god opted for this world whereas he could have done much better. They also do not explain his indifference and inability to intervene in the situations I listed earlier. You just said huge nonsense that only idi0ts or people who want to believe or keep believing in god will accept; this is because they lack good reasons to believe in god, so anything will do. In fact there is no good reason to believe in a religious god. The thrid definition of evil (which itself is a false definition of evil) is corporal evil. It relates in some way to the second definition of evil. In this third evil, I'll be using the word "Bad" as a synonym of "Evil" for grammatical reasons. (You'll accept with me that it's more grammatically correct to say someone has a bad tooth than say the person has an evil tooth).This is irrelevant to mention. When people talk about the problem of evil and the existence of god, no one brings up the issue of using bleaching cream, or other trivial stuffs like smoking. You are deliberately being disingenuous because you and I know that humans label these things bad, not ''evil'' as you claim, because of the adverse effects they can have if we overly indulge in them. They label them bad for cogent reasons, not for subjective or arbitrary reasons. You and I also know that the overwhelming majority, except hard core anti-black racists, do not see dark skin as bad or inherently evil. Many people are wired to perceive fair ladies to be more beautiful. That's why a lot of girls use bleaching cream to increase their attraction. Know this: Whatever you are born into is not evil. Whatever you are born with is not evil. Are you born blind, you're not evil neither is the blindness evil/bad. The question is, "are you a human being?" Must someone have eyes to be a human being? When talking about corporal evils, try to differentiate "what you have" from "what you are".This is an insensitive, selfish and callous thing to say. People who say nonsense like this are usually not afflicted with the things they are trivializing; it is until they get a taste of it that they come to their senses. You don't suffer like a blind person that is why you are typed this nonsense. Blindness is bad, congenital inability to walk or hear is bad, sickle cell disease is bad, etc. I can list more and more. I am sure that if you were born crippled, deaf and you had cerebral palsy, you would think lowly of god if he appeared to you and said ''I could have corrected your suffering and limitations with my power, but I left you this way since you are still human anyway. Your condition isn't bad and the most important thing is that you are human.'' If you are not the selfish type and callous type, which I doubt, you would also be angry, confused and disappointed if god told you this concerning your child or sibling who is suffering from these. The question is ''if god is all-powerful, all-loving, and can change/prevent these things, why are these things occurring even to ardent and kind-hearted believers both young and old?'' Atheist 3: Imagine Pastor John has 5 private jets; Pastot Judas has 8; Pastor Zacharia even bought a Lamborghini for a sex worker. This people can't be men of God. So God don't exist.No atheist uses the opulent lifestyles of clergies to disprove the existence of god. Unlike what you are insinuating, god doesn't give jets, mansions, luxurious cars etc. to pastors The wealth of clergymen which is gotten from the donations, offerings, seeds, tithes etc. of their members (thanks to their beliefs and gullibility.) who are not as rich is seen as a strong indication that church is nothing but business and the pastors are using the belief in god to cash out big time. The fact that members are encourage to sow seeds and tithe when they seek an increase from the divine, but these pastors seek a donation when they need something raises great suspicion. This suspicion and the way pastors use belief in god to cash out at the expense of their congregations might make one examine one's beliefs objectively to ensure god is real, the holy books are true and that one is not being taken for a ride. It is this objective and critical examination and scrutiny of one's beliefs that usually renders him an atheist. There's a difference between "a God" and "God". A God is a particular religion's (or a particular person's) experience of God. God is what He is independently of any religion or opinion.You are creating an unnecessary confusion and definition. Just simply concede the obvious truth that people simply believe in different gods. hopefullandlord, 1Sharon, guruinfinite, judybash93, IAmMicheal, Thereddevil, Ketamine9000mg, MrColdsweat, MikeofKd, senchibi, Judgemrntyard, SunshineV, KillGod, akinlolu26624, Jashub 1 Like |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by Martinez39s(m): 2:25pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
hopefulLandlord:HealerH won't see this. 1 Like |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by Martinez39s(m): 3:22pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
Martinez39s:On a more serious note, HealerH didn't specify his god, but he did say ''And I'll tell you this truth, whereas I discovered God by His grace in me and also through my extraterrestrial reflection on his creation,... He also insinuated that pastors are given their wealth through god, and we know the god pastors claim to serve. For someone who talks about an elusive god, it is important that you identify your god and communicate his attributes, so that people can properly scrutinize your god claim. I listed abrahamic gods and religions in my earlier post because in this part of the world and in most places, they are the major or only forms of theism and the starting point of many in their knowledge of god. |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by HealerH: 4:24pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
Martinez39s: Eyaa. I repeated it many times... Common sense is not common. In that line I was exposing an atheistic apology according to which atheists refuse to believe in God because of the lavish life some pastors are living. How absurd can that be? You don't even know if the person truly believe in God. Then you insist you won't believe in God because of their lifestyle. Is it the Pastor's lifestyle that conditions the existence of God or does God exist independently of whatever lifestyle and opinion people have of him. Common sense is rare these days. Martinez39s: You're so confused. Your text here make me want to believe you grasped the difference I made between "a god" and "god". Why did you use the expression "your god"? Isn't it because you realised anything said about God is relative? And if all these opinions are relative, how did you get to make a totalistic conclusive remark from relative opinions? Don't you see you're a wack scientist? And does scrutinizing "my" God means God doesn't exist? Since it is "MY" God, should the irrationality in my conception of God insinuate that "God" doesn't exist or that "my God" doesn't exist? Common logic. Oh. Maybe you're trying to say "my God" is the only one true God that's why his nonexistence implies the nonexistence of God and consequently, the logic behind atheism. Show me where I made such claims in my tests. |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by Martinez39s(m): 5:33pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
HealerH:Well, as I have said, no atheist uses the lifestyle of a pastor to disprove the existence of God. Arrant nonsense. You are just creating unnecessary definitions and semantics. "Why did you use the expression "your god"? Isn't it because you realised anything said about God is relative?" Don't try to play smart and don't be silly. You claimed you found the true god by "his grace", I don't believe in that god. That god is who you believe in, hence that god is YOUR GOD. Smh. Anything said about God isn't relative. Just have the honesty to concede that different people believe in DIAMETRICALLY DIFFERENT gods, and their gods are not unique manifestations of some true, objective god (the one you think exists). It is important to know your thoughts on the god you believe in —you know, the one you found "by his grace"— and his attributes if your ramblings on this thread will be worthwhile and purposeful because it is on that basis you discarded atheism, and it is also on that basis you think god exists. If your idea of god is scrutinised and found to be flawed, you either come up with an alternative or join the atheist lane and concede you have no case for a god. All gods have been scrutinised and found to lack any evidence for their existence? The issue is "is it the same for your god"? No one is saying that disproving your god means no gods exists, I just want to see if your god idea is sound and if you therefore have a sound basis to discard atheism. I know you will run away from this challenge. 1 Like |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by HealerH: 5:36pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
Martinez39s: Awon sophist. So atheists don't believe in God because of the absence of solid evidence and sound argument for the existence of God. By this you want to let us believe that atheists are eager to believe in God if there are proofs and evidence of His existence. That's to say they seek God too. Now I ask you, who's supposed to provide this evidence of God's existence? Believers? Why? If atheists are eager to believe, why depend on others to believe? What does these "others" have better than me for me to condition my belief on their evidence? You're a poor sophist. An atheist doesn't believe in God not because someone was unable to give him solid proofs of God's existence, but first and foremost, because he (the atheist) is unable to give himself solid truth of God's existence. So if you're unable to give yourself solid proofs of God's existence whereas I was able to give MYSELF solid proofs of God's existence, why do you come asking me to share with you my proofs if not because you're a loser. Aren't you supposed to be ashamed? And when you approach me to ascertain how I got my proofs of God's existence, aren't you doing so because I'm your last resort to the knowledge of God? If you have any other resort, why ask me to demonstrate how I discovered God? What's the other resort you have. look at this Martinez39s: I believe in God but I don't believe neither in the existence of souls, in eternal life nor in heaven/hell fire. This atheist believe in all these. Ogbeni how can you be more religious than a believer? Chai. I just realized you're not discussing "belief in God" with me. You're discussing " a religion's belief in God". And you have a problem having a personal relationship with God because your view of Him is conditioned by religion. Religion is nothing but people's opinion of God. And it's unscientific to depend on opinions when seeking a truth. The truth/God is, independently of any religion. The ideas of eternal life or the existence of soul or of heaven is exclusive to certain religions and not to all believers of God. This is what these religions deducted from the experience they have made of God. Ogbeni grow up! Go have your own experience of God and stop depending on people's opinion. Martinez39s: Gan gan. You don't believe in God but you know what a "divine presence" and "divine intervention" feels like. You know what is "divine"? It's something that has to do with divinity, with "godnessness". So you haven't had an experience of God but you have had an experience of godnessness. Never knew one can perfectly know what an egg is without knowing what a hen is. . Chai. Laugh don kee me. Martinez39s: Nna nawa o. What concerns me with your abrahamic religions? What concerns me with miracles? What concerns me with the Bible? My friend I don't discuss God from a religious perspective. I'm on a scientific discussion of God Martinez39s: Ehmmmm. I think you should go ask Christians that. Whatever Christians say about God is based on the experience they had of Him. My experience of Him is totally different. The experience I made of God is one that rejects the pejorative meaning of suffering. What you call suffering is what I call life. I "celebrate" the birth of a new baby the same way I "celebrate" the death of a man. Life and death are things God created and none of them is evil, for nothing God created is evil. The only evil (and consequently the only suffering) in life is the one created by man. Martinez39s: Blah blah blah. |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by Martinez39s(m): 6:42pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
HealerH:Exactly! It is the same reason you don't believe in werewolf, santa claus and unicorns. By this you want to let us believe that atheists are eager to believe in God if there are proofs and evidence of His existence.Of course, atheists will believe in God if there are evidences and sound arguments for his existence. That's to say they seek God too.Lol. My statements on what atheism is doesn't imply that atheists seek god. You don't believe in santa claus, this doesn't mean you somehow seek santa claus. Now I ask you, who's supposed to provide this evidence of God's existence? Believers? Why?Those who claim god exists are the ones to prove he exists. The burden of proof of a claim lies on the person making the claim. Believers proclaim that their gods exist therefore it lies on them to prove their claim, not atheists. Had it been atheists claimed there is no god, then they have something to prove. Atheism is not the proclamation of the nonxistence of god, it is the lack of belief in god due to lack of evidence and unconvincing arguments. "I don't believe my uncle has $1B" is different from "My uncle doesn't have $1B". If atheists are eager to believe, why depend on others to believe?I don't understand what you mean here. Atheists are eager to believe IF there is a good basis in reality to believe; atheists are not waiting on anyone. I hope you are not insinuating that atheists haven't examined any religious beliefs and they are just sitting at the corner waiting for believers to tell them the gods they believe in so they can scrutinise and reject these gods? What does these "others" have better than me for me to condition my belief on their evidence?I really don't get your gibberish. Stop acting like atheists haven't seasoned the god idea independently. By the way, I am not a sophist. An atheist doesn't believe in God not because someone was unable to give him solid proofs of God's existence, but first and foremost, because he (the atheist) is unable to give himself solid truth of God's existence.They are unable to do so because they haven't found any solid proof. You can give yourself something you don't have or something that you haven't acquired. Perhaps, you can help atheists out. So if you're unable to give yourself solid proofs of God's existence whereas I was able to give MYSELF solid proofs of God's existence, why do you come asking me to share with you my proofs if not because you're a loser.At this point, you are just another clown. You simply don't have any solid proof. You are the sophist in this group. Aren't you supposed to be ashamed? And when you approach me to ascertain how I got my proofs of God's existence, aren't you doing so because I'm your last resort to the knowledge of God? If you have any other resort, why ask me to demonstrate how I discovered God? What's the other resort you have.You are just a clown. [s]I believe in God but I don't believe neither in the existence of souls, in eternal life nor in heaven/hell fire. This atheist believe in all these.SMH. I leave you to your delusions and dishonesty. My hand no dey for your matter again. 1 Like
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Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by HealerH: 8:48pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
Martinez39s: Why didn't you comment on that part of my text you cancelled? You ran out of ideas? ; D Chai. Ogbeni you made my Sunday. I got free entertainment from a goofball. Entertain me one last time on this reflection I'm going to pose for you. You know that if two scientists are debating on the authenticity of an experimental result, each of them is expected to back their claims with logical demonstrations conforming to scientific norms. Let's say the experiment was on this equation : " If 666x + √16+5² = 3, then x = 33." One of the scientist claims that the equation is correct, meaning that x is equal to 33. The other refuses claiming that x is not equal to 33. And he demonstrated his claim and showed how he got 31 instead. This is how scientific debates should be. And I've been thinking that's what we should be doing here. But the absurd thing about the one we have been doing on this topic is that the second scientist refused to say what x is. He refused the other person's answer but couldn't present his own answer. And this second scientist is our atheist. If you refuse the proofs believers have been giving you that God exists, then give them a proof that God doesn't exist. And listen carefully. This proof must be 100% a scientific result from you and not a deduction of hearsay. It must not be a continuation of someone else's experiment. Don't tell me, "The believer believes God is all loving and kind yet I read in his Holy Book that God killed people. So God doesn't exist". No. You must base your claims solely on your experiments just like the second scientist I talked about did. His experiment was not a continuation of the first scientist's experiment. Now there you go. I want to see you blab around on this... Or avoid it like coward. |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by hopefulLandlord: 8:54pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
MrColdsweat: How have I attacked you personally? |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by 1Sharon(f): 9:28pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
Martinez39s: He's a Christian trying to dress himself up. Arrogant fuçk |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by 1Sharon(f): 9:29pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
HealerH: What is the name of your God? |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by Martinez39s(m): 9:38pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
1Sharon:Just like all cunning theists and apologists who defend the god position, HealerH made his god's identity and attributes as abstract and elusive as possible, all in the cheap attempt to avoid any scrutiny and exposure of any flaw in his god concept. If someone points out something wrong with his implied god idea, he will simply say "that's not the god I am talking about." Notice how he cowardly avoided my request for him to tell us the god he found by "his grace" and the attributes of this god. I didn't even ask how he discovered this god. 2 Likes |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by 1Sharon(f): 9:48pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
MrColdsweat: You were never an atheist FOH! You simply went back to your own vomit. Being skeptical and questioning religion is not atheism. 2 Likes |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by Martinez39s(m): 10:00pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
1Sharon:I suspect he is a christian. |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by 1Sharon(f): 10:05pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
Martinez39s: Exactly. Well said, disingenuous prick 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by 1Sharon(f): 10:05pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
Martinez39s: He is 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by Nobody: 10:44pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
Martinez39s:Keppler,Dtruthspeaker,etc. The list goes on. They keep saying the same thing in different ways. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by MrColdsweat: 10:48pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
1Sharon:Whatever makes you sleep well. 1Sharon: Another reason why you are called fools is that you cannot only see that your tools are insufficient. You also cannot see that you are guilty of everything you accuse religionists of. You fools spend so much time criticizing religions but you don't know that atheism itself, and skepticism, scientism and its other cousins, are also religions. You have central figures you worship, you have methodologies, you proselytize and you have every tendency to be dogmatic and become extremists like the religionists. Confucianism, Buddhism, taoism etc played central roles in the character formation of Asians. The moral eminence of Asians can be attributed to infusion of these religions in their educational system. Christianity played great roles in the advancement of science at its early stage. Is it not foolishness to claim religion is bad because it didn't work in Africa or some other place on earth? Religion is like a knife. A knife can be used to kill, and can also be used for good, to carve woods, to slice condiments for food. If I stab you with a knife, who is bad? The knife or me? That is what religion is. A tool. Blaming or criticizing religion, is foolishness. One of the many reasons why we call atheists fools. |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by Martinez39s(m): 10:58pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
MrColdsweat: 1 Share
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Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by MrColdsweat: 11:08pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
Martinez39s: To the christians, Muslims etc, God almighty is the source of all truths and knowledge. To the atheists, scientists etc, scientific observation, evidence, logical proofs etc are the sources of all truths and knowledge. They are the gods you worship. The claim that truth claims must pass through several scientific or logical verifications before they can be upgraded to truth or knowledge, is itself a belief, and not truth. This makes atheism a belief system. |
Re: The Wisdom Of Atheism. by HealerH: 11:27pm On Apr 04, 2021 |
1Sharon: The name of my God is Healer. Now do you believe in Him? . Dumbness overload. |
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