Was Mohamed a Descendant of Abraham?
Was Mohamed a Descendant of Abraham?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vOEAdRza0A
Like almost everything else in Islam, even the genealogy of Mohamed is filled with half-truths and outright contradictions.

As usual most Moslems will choose to run away from the facts instead of checking them out to find the truth.

This video based on a book A Concise Guide to the Life of Muhammad
Answering Thirty Key Questions
by: Dr. Ayman S. Ibrahim gives some facts on the issue.

"Since no patriarch is more important to Christians and Jews than Abraham, Muhammad's lineage had to be connected to him." - Ayman Ibrahim.

Empiree, Lukgaf, Rashduct4luv, Antichristian, motayoayinde, mhmsadyq, haekymbahd or Realismailakabir

Muslims in Nigeria have given Nigerians opportunity to insult their religion and Prophet.
Its unfortunate when what you worship is a source of problems to human beings World over.

If he is, certainly not through his legitimate child Isaac. Maybe through Ishmael, the son of the bond woman who was thrown out.

As you take know about Moses and his decendants, I hope you Sabi your own families ancestry.

Always engaging on foolish, meaningless religious discussions. After wasting all your energy here, then you will wonder why Nigeria is a backward, wayward country.

How about you enlighten us how the prostitute Mary went to collect outside dick and now claimed it was god that impregnated her. Of course the jews didn't fall for that shit, they always knew she was a harlot.
And they proved it by slaughtered the false messiah like a pig on a cross and littered his body around the streets of Jerusalem.

Both Jesus and Muhammed are dead being with daft followers. Africans always disgracing themselves with the useless gods of the Israelites and the Arabs.

Alao046:
How about you enlighten us how the prostitute Mary went to collect outside dick and now claimed it was god that impregnated her. Of course the jews didn't fall for that shit, they always knew she was a harlot.
And they proved it by slaughtered the false messiah like a pig on a cross and littered his body around the streets of Jerusalem.

Both Jesus and Muhammed are dead being with daft followers. Africans always disgracing themselves with the useless gods of the Israelites and the Arabs.

I think the daft are those who spew out nonsense without providing facts.

sagenaija:
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I think the daft are those who spew out nonsense without providing facts.

Say someone who has no fact about the existence of his god. Someone who was told that a man used a stick to divide the red sea and he believed, someone who believes that the fact that his god couldn't save itself from been butchered on the cross has the power to save him now that the god is dead and long buried. I can really see your facts, they speak for themselves, and they all point to a DAFT you.

Alao046:


Say someone who has no fact about the existence of his god. Someone who was told that a man used a stick to divide the red sea and he believed, someone who believes that the fact that his god couldn't save itself from been butchered on the cross has the power to save him now that the god is dead and long buried. I can really see your facts, they speak for themselves, and they all point to a DAFT you.

Are you some random chemicals moving around the whole place with scattered remarks and unable to focus on and directly address the issue of the thread?

sagenaija:
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Are you some random chemicals moving around the whole place with scattered remarks and unable to focus on and directly address the issue of the thread?

what is the issue of the thread cos I am not understanding?

Are we the ones that said this

Genesis 17
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard and heeded you: behold, I will bless him and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly; He will be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation.

Check my signature

haekymbahd:
what is the issue of the thread cos I am not understanding?

Are we the ones that said this

Genesis 17
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard and heeded you: behold, I will bless him and will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly; He will be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation.

Ishmael, yes.
Mohamed? His genealogy, as with virtually everything in Islam, has many sides to it.

Btw, Islamic sources say that Ishmael HAD TO LEARN Arabic. Hope you understand that. But, in case it skipped you, if Ishmael had to learn Arabic language doesn't that suggest to you that he identified as a different tribe? Then, even if Mohamed can be traced to him, what does that make Mohamed?

sagenaija:
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Ishmael, yes.
Mohamed? His genealogy, as with virtually everything in Islam, has many sides to it.

Btw, Islamic sources say that Ishmael HAD TO LEARN Arabic. Hope you understand that. But, in case it skipped you, if Ishmael had to learn Arabic language doesn't that suggest to you that he identified as a different tribe? Then, even if Mohamed can be traced to him, what does that make Mohamed?

It makes Muhammad both descendant of Ishmael and an Arab. There are several ways of getting citizenship of a country which I beleive you know too well...



How did Jesus became an isrealite when he had no earthly father but mother I guess he is from another tribe?

haekymbahd:
It makes Muhammad both descendant of Ishmael and an Arab. There are several ways of getting citizenship of a country which I beleive you know too well...



How did Jesus became an isrealite when he had no earthly father but mother I guess he is from another tribe?

Abraham, Ishmael's father was a Jew. (Or has Islam changed the narrative as usual?).
Hagar, Ishmael's mother was an Egyptian. Hagar got Ishmael an Egyptian for a wife.
So, please explain how Ishmael's racial identity came to be what Islam wants us to believe.
How did he acquire the citizenship of a country and changed his racial identity?

On the humanity of Jesus Christ. His father was the God of Israel. His mother was a full-born Israelite. Her genealogy is there in the Bible. His human adopted father was also a complete Israelite. Hope that clarifies that for you.

sagenaija:
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Abraham, Ishmael's father was a Jew. (Or has Islam changed the narrative as usual?).
Hagar, Ishmael's mother was an Egyptian. Hagar got Ishmael an Egyptian for a wife.
So, please explain how Ishmael's racial identity came to be what Islam wants us to believe.
How did he acquire the citizenship of a country and changed his racial identity?

On the humanity of Jesus Christ. His father was the God of Israel. His mother was a full-born Israelite. Her genealogy is there in the Bible. His human adopted father was also a complete Israelite. Hope that clarifies that for you.

what about muhammads mother then since you claim Jesus was isrealite because his mother was...

sagenaija:
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Abraham, Ishmael's father was a Jew. (Or has Islam changed the narrative as usual?).
Hagar, Ishmael's mother was an Egyptian. Hagar got Ishmael an Egyptian for a wife.
So, please explain how Ishmael's racial identity came to be what Islam wants us to believe.
How did he acquire the citizenship of a country and changed his racial identity?

On the humanity of Jesus Christ. His father was the God of Israel. His mother was a full-born Israelite. Her genealogy is there in the Bible. His human adopted father was also a complete Israelite. Hope that clarifies that for you.

If Jesus is judged based on her mother's lineage which is even doubtful from your Bible then what is Muhammad's mother's lineage from your video and the book introduced?

Jesus had no father and hence no lineage but your Bible created two lineages for someone without a father just to rope him up to David!

sagenaija:
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Abraham, Ishmael's father was a Jew. (Or has Islam changed the narrative as usual?).
Hagar, Ishmael's mother was an Egyptian. Hagar got Ishmael an Egyptian for a wife.
So, please explain how Ishmael's racial identity came to be what Islam wants us to believe.
How did he acquire the citizenship of a country and changed his racial identity?

On the humanity of Jesus Christ. His father was the God of Israel. His mother was a full-born Israelite. Her genealogy is there in the Bible. His human adopted father was also a complete Israelite. Hope that clarifies that for you.

How did Abraham become a Jew when even Isaac is not a Jew.

Do you even know who is a Jew?

They are the descendants of Jacob.

There was nothing like jew before Jacob.

Some christians always try to claim to be intelligent when in reality they are daft. Perhaps it is born out of the need to market christianity even with lies.

People should learn to use their brains please, examine what you are told or see on the internet before peddling it around. Else you will be making a fool of yourself.

haekymbahd:
what about muhammads mother then since you claim Jesus was isrealite because his mother was...

Are Arabs patrilineal?

AntiChristian:


If Jesus is judged based on her mother's lineage which is even doubtful from your Bible then what is Muhammad's mother's lineage from your video and the book introduced?

Jesus had no father and hence no lineage but your Bible created two lineages for someone without a father just to rope him up to David!

It appears that you guys don't take the time to read posts before responding. God is the father of Jesus Christ. Joseph was his legal human adopted father. This is the biblical position.

What is your book saying about your prophet's lineage? Where did he come from?

Which points in the video can you contradict?

alfarouq:


How did Abraham become a Jew when even Isaac is not a Jew.

Do you even know who is a Jew?

They are the descendants of Jacob.

There was nothing like jew before Jacob.

Some christians always try to claim to be intelligent when in reality they are daft. Perhaps it is born out of the need to market christianity even with lies.

People should learn to use their brains please, examine what you are told or see on the internet before peddling it around. Else you will b making a fool of yourself.

We are willing to learn.
Please don't just stop at accusing us. Tell us who a Jew is.

sagenaija:
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We are willing to learn.
Please don't just stop at accusing us. Tell us who a Jew is.

You could have asked that before.

Go back to the same post you quote, I already told you who a jew is.

Jews are the lineage of Judah: one of the children of Israel ( Jacob).

For you to be a Jew. You have to be a descendant of Jacob.

The Father, Mother, Brother and Sister of Jacob themselves are not Jew let alone the grand father.

If you still cant understand, I cant help you more than I have.

.

alfarouq:


You could have asked that before.

Go back to the same post you quote, I already told you who a jew is.

Jews are the lineage of Judah: one of the children of Israel ( Jacob).

For you to be a Jew. You have to be a descendant of Jacob.

The Father, Mother, Brother and Sister of Jacob themselves are not Jew let alone the grand father.

If you still cant understand, I cant help you more than I have.

Please help us more.

sagenaija:

Are Arabs patrilineal?

Even if Muhammad is Arab or not does that change the fact that he was a descendant of Ismael and the Quran was revealed in Arabic.


Arabised Arabs: These are arabs who trace their tribal ancestry to foreigners who migrated into the Arabian Peninsula and eventually adopted the arab culture and language.


Or are you insinuating that Abraham was a Jew shed more light?

haekymbahd:
Even if Muhammad is Arab or not does that change the fact that he was a descendant of Ismael and the Quran was revealed in Arabic.

Arabised Arabs: These are arabs who trace their tribal ancestry to foreigners who migrated into the Arabian Peninsula and eventually adopted the arab culture and language.

Or are you insinuating that Abraham was a Jew shed more light?

You didn't answer my question which was based on your earlier statement. Does that mean that you are really not willing to accept the fact but hold on to your false position?

Dr. Ayman S. Ibrahim in his book that the video is about used primary Arabic sources to show that NO CONNECTION CAN BE ESTABLISHED between Ishmael and the Arabs. And consequently, between Ishmael and Mohamed. He went on to say that some classical Moslem authorities do not support Mohamed's lineage to Ishmael.

He went on to say that Ibn Sa'ad, one of the prominent companions of Mohamed asserts that when Mohamed detailed his lineage, he stopped many generations before reaching Ishmael.

Calling Islam an Abrahamic religion has always been is questionable as Islam does not agree that Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is its God. Now genealogically it is being proven otherwise.

Again, like the author said, "Since no patriarch is more important to Christians and Jews than Abraham, Muhammad's lineage had to be connected to him." 

My take is that Islam is seeking credibility from the earlier faiths. If it is to stand on its own it would crumble like a pack of cards.

If Mohamed never asked that his lineage be traced back to Abraham, who 'invented' the popular narrative on it?

sagenaija:
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He went on to say that Ibn Sa'ad, one of the prominent companions of Mohamed asserts that when Mohamed detailed his lineage, he stopped many generations before reaching Ishmael.

Okay, if you can list your geneology to you 20th generation I will take you serious let's see if you've got some important figures...

It is logical that in every generation there might be some important figures and personalty which no one can forget I didn't even watch the video. So according to you if Muhammad himself claim he was a descendant of Ishmael then go challenge him then and tell him who is Father is....

haekymbahd:
Okay, if you can list your geneology to you 20th generation I will take you serious let's see if you've got some important figures...

It is logical that in every generation there might be some important figures and personalty which no one can forget I didn't even watch the video. So according to you if Muhammad himself claim he was a descendant of Ishmael then go challenge him then and tell him who is Father is....

@ bolded: So you guys just jump on a thread to comment even without getting the details involved. That is very interesting! I guess it's because you want to run away from the truth. You prefer to remain in your falsehood.

I NEVER SAID Mohamed claimed to be a descendant of Ishmael. Again, this shows that you are not paying attention. You are more interested in simply arguing than facts and the truth.

The Arabian tale certainly has so many sides to it!

sagenaija:

@ bolded: So you guys just jump on a thread to comment even without getting the details involved. That is very interesting! I guess it's because you want to run away from the truth. You prefer to remain in your falsehood.

I NEVER SAID Mohamed claimed to be a descendant of Ishmael. Again, this shows that you are not paying attention. You are more interested in simply arguing than facts and the truth.

The Arabian tale certainly has so many sides to it!

Wathila ibn Al-Asqa’ reported: I heard the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, saying, “Verily, Allah has chosen Kinanah from the sons of Ishmael, and he has chosen the Quraish from Kinanah, and he has chosen the tribe of Hashim from the Quraish, and he has chosen me from the tribe of Hashim.”

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2276


I don't have data to waste if you have anything to prove post it...

haekymbahd:
Wathila ibn Al-Asqa’ reported: I heard the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, saying, “Verily, Allah has chosen Kinanah from the sons of Ishmael, and he has chosen the Quraish from Kinanah, and he has chosen the tribe of Hashim from the Quraish, and he has chosen me from the tribe of Hashim.”
Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2276
I don't have data to waste if you have anything to prove post it...

Are you sure it's the issue of data?

We are told:

Ma'n Ibn 'Isa al-Ashja'i al-Qazzaz (silk-merchant) informed us; he said: Mu'awiyah Ibn Salih informed us on the authority of Yahya Ibn Jabir who had seen some Companions of the Prophet and said: The people of Banu Fuhayrah came to the Prophet and said to him: You belong to us. He replied: Verily, (the archangel) Gabriel has informed me that I belong to Mudar. (Ibn Sa'd, Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, Volume I, p. 4)

If this is true, then the genealogy of Mohamed was not known to either himself or his clan.

The Holy Bible also tells us where Ishmael's sons settled:

"This is the account of Abraham's son Ishmael, whom Sarah's maidservant, Hagar the Egyptian, bore to Abraham. These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, Mishma, Dumah, Massa, Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish and Kedemah. These were the sons of Ishmael, and these are the names of the twelve tribal rulers according to their settlements and camps. Altogether, Ishmael lived a hundred and thirty-seven years. He breathed his last and died, and he was gathered to his people. His descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt, as you go toward Asshur. And they lived in hostility toward all their brothers." Genesis 25:12-18

This conclusively demonstrates that neither Ishmael nor his twelve sons settled in Mecca.

sagenaija:
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The Holy Bible also tells us where Ishmael's sons settled:

"This is the account of Abraham's son Ishmael, whom Sarah's maidservant, Hagar the Egyptian, bore to Abraham. These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, Mishma, Dumah, Massa, Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish and Kedemah. These were the sons of Ishmael, and these are the names of the twelve tribal rulers according to their settlements and camps. Altogether, Ishmael lived a hundred and thirty-seven years. He breathed his last and died, and he was gathered to his people. His descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt, as you go toward Asshur. And they lived in hostility toward all their brothers." Genesis 25:12-18

This conclusively demonstrates that neither Ishmael nor his twelve sons settled in Mecca.

The bible calls you a liar at the bolded above Kedar and Tema

kindly explain to us how Kedar and Tema (both sons of Ishmael) became a place in Arabia if Ishmael had never been there?


Isaiah 21
13 The mournful, inspired prediction (a burden to be lifted up) concerning Arabia: In the forests and thickets of Arabia you shall lodge, O you caravans of Dedanites [from northern Arabia].

14 To the thirsty [Dedanites] bring water, O inhabitants of the land of Tema [in Arabia]; meet the fugitive with bread [suitable] for him.

15 For they have fled from the swords, from the drawn sword, from the bent bow, and from the grievousness of war [the press of battle].

16 For the Lord has said this to me, Within a year, according to the years of a hireling [who will work no longer than was agreed], all the glory of Kedar [an Arabian tribe] will fail.

17 And the remainder of the number of archers and their bows, the mighty men of the sons of Kedar, will be diminished and few; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has spoken it.

haekymbahd:
The bible calls you a liar at the bolded above Kedar and Tema

kindly explain to us how Kedar and Tema (both sons of Ishmael) became a place in Arabia if Ishmael had never been there?


Isaiah 21
13 The mournful, inspired prediction (a burden to be lifted up) concerning Arabia: In the forests and thickets of Arabia you shall lodge, O you caravans of Dedanites [from northern Arabia].

14 To the thirsty [Dedanites] bring water, O inhabitants of the land of Tema [in Arabia]; meet the fugitive with bread [suitable] for him.

15 For they have fled from the swords, from the drawn sword, from the bent bow, and from the grievousness of war [the press of battle].

16 For the Lord has said this to me, Within a year, according to the years of a hireling [who will work no longer than was agreed], all the glory of Kedar [an Arabian tribe] will fail.

17 And the remainder of the number of archers and their bows, the mighty men of the sons of Kedar, will be diminished and few; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has spoken it.

I know you love this; shifting from one thing to another but avoiding the main issue.

That Bible portion says Kedar will be diminished and few. There was also an indictment against Tema.

Where has historically been referred to as Arabia? Answer that question and get sense.

Is there ANY archeological evidence in Mecca to date that points to the historical stamp Islam wants to put on it?

Did Mecca not begin to be important to Islam only when the black stone you guys worship was moved there after factional wars in Islam?

sagenaija:
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I know you love this; shifting from one thing to another but avoiding the main issue.

That Bible portion says Kedar will be diminished and few. There was also an indictment against Tema.

Where has historically been referred to as Arabia? Answer that question and get sense.

Is there ANY archeological evidence in Mecca to date that points to the historical stamp Islam wants to put on it?

Did Mecca not begin to be important to Islam only when the black stone you guys worship was moved there after factional wars in Islam?

Don't derail from the main issue

Do you accept that Kedar and Tema are both sons of Ishmael and they are also names of tribes in Arabia was that a coincidence how did they get there if Ishmael hadn't been there?


Tell me where historically has been reffered to as Arabia?



Moses must have visited Kabah (Mecca) as he asked Pharaoh to let his people go to the wilderness (desert) to make pilgrimage to his God.


International Standard Version
Exodus 5 vs 1
[b]After Moses and Aaron arrived, they told Pharaoh, "This is what the LORD God of Israel says: 'Let my people go so they may make a pilgrimage for me in the desert.'"

2 But Pharaoh said, Who is the Lord, that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? I know not the Lord, neither will I let Israel go.

3 And they said, The God of the Hebrews has met with us; let us go, we pray you, three days' journey into the desert and sacrifice to the Lord our God, lest He fall upon us with pestilence or with the sword.


Since Jews neither hold festival nor made pilgrimage in the desert regularly in their entire history and they have no 'J' sound letter in their Hebrew language, it won't be difficult for people with common sense to understand that the Hebrew word 'Hag' refers to Arabic word 'Haj' which means pilgrimage to Kabah (Mecca)

Moreover

1) The miracle of parting Red sea by Moses happened between the Sinai peninsula and Arabia (the gulf of Aqaba). Not between Egypt and Sinai peninsula as wrongly taught to both Jews and Christians.