hadg33:


@Chyz,not bullshit,you should try and learn from him

Learn how to be illogical,lol? i think not. Na ur problem be that.

Lol!

If you couldn't give a sh+yt about Yoruba so then why is it causing you to hit your head on the wall?

Yoruba gave birth to Bini which gave birth to Lagos and which was on the verge of extinctuion but was sustained by the seed of Ijesha.

So Yoruba and Edo are one, beginning in Ife and ending in Lagos.

What's your pain? Lmao!

Negro_Ntns:

Lol!

If you couldn't give a sh+yt about Yoruba so then why is it causing you to hit your head on the wall?

Yoruba gave birth to Bini which gave birth to Lagos and which was on the verge of extinctuion but was sustained by the seed of Ijesha.

So Yoruba and Edo are one, beginning in Ife and ending in Lagos.

What's your pain? Lmao!

Wrong, not even your powerless obas would ever make that claim. lol

Also, now your saying you yorobos started in Ife again, didnt you just say you people came from the middle east,lol

The great Edo nation concured ur people. No Edo man will ever claim oness with the Yorubas. Stop land grabbing and claiming people who dont even speak the same language as you.

I see, I have taught you well. Good job!!

When you see an Edo man that says they are not Yoruba tell him Negro says the opposite and he should come talk to me and teach me what I don't know.

Negro_Ntns:

I see, I have taught you well. Good job!!

When you see an Edo man that says they are not Yoruba tell him Negro says the opposite and he should come talk to me and teach me what I don't know.

And when you see a Yoruba man who says is not Esan,let me know.

<quote>

How did Ifa originate?

</quote>

As I previously stated, "Ifa" is a shortened term and either there was a prefix or a postfix adjoined to it. In a discussion last year on a similar topic in the Religion section (or might have been the Cultural) I shared some insights on the genesis of Ifa. I will recount here in a summary. My knowledge of the Odus is little to nothing but I understand the skeletal framework that upholds Ifa.


First, what does Ifa mean?  

To understand its meaning we should know its identity. My belief is that "Hanif" is the full term. From that term is derived "Hanifa". Hanif itself means "The Upright" or "The Righteous". This is the identity of Ifa. Each and every verse of Ifa teaches "uprightness" or "righteousness".

Hanif is an Arabic term. Wait a minute! Do not start associating Arabic with Islam in this context. I know majority of us are programmed to conclude anything Arabic as Islam.

One should wonder why a faith at the beginning of mankind should be known in a language that came much later. If Abraham practiced Ifa then we should have a corresponding term in Aramaic for Ifa.

The answer is Yes there was a corresponding term for Ifa in the semitic tongues of Afro Asia but with the sweeping effect, first, of Judaism, followed by Christianity, the practitioners went underground. When Islam came they re-emerged. It will be hard to comprehend that Islam accomodated the Hanifs and gave them sanctuary but campaigned against and even wiped out pagans and idol worshippers. This is because Hanifs did not worship idols and were not pagans, they practiced the faith of Abraham. So it is said that Abraham was himself a Hanif - a "Righteous" man.

So when did Ifa start and where did it come from?

"Righteousness" started at the beginning of creation and was an injunction to man from God giving Adam the first law - "of the trees of the garden you may eat, except two". Mankind had totally departed from "Righteousness"  in the time of Noah. The flood was thus a cleansing ritual to reborn man, but with the cleanliness God also inspired a new world order for mankind. Thus he gave to Noah a number of hidden secrets and messages for creating that new world order. This new order of Hanif or "Righteousness" came with recitals and corpus and number counts. This is the new beginning of a new Hanif and this where the Ifa corpus and verses came from.




I will stop here momentarily for questions.



It is not by accident that

I must be doing a good job, seeing that tpia has not asked me any question.

Back on where I left off.

It is no accident at all that Yorubas use the term "omoluabi" for acts of "righteousness" or "uprightness". Noah was the father of "uprights", so to speak! Noah was given several numbers in repetitions and patterns. These numbers have hidden messages and secret codes. He was inspired to build an ark and the dimensions that were given for the structure were also encoded for certain mystical powers as well. The hidden messages would serve as the code of living for the new order of righteousness or Ifa.

Thus the incidence where Noah had cursed his child for seeing his unclothedness was an occassion in which Ham had walked into his father's tent and saw some of these secrets which he then took with him and showed to Shem and Japhet. The two did not want anthing to do with these unathourized, unblessed mystical powers and so returned what Ham handed to them. Ham did not return his, he kept it.

The first world power after the new world order started was Hamitic people or Egyptians.

The first superior intelligence was also a grandchild of Ham, Nimrod. The children of Kush, bloodline of Ham, equally ended up very powerful. Likewise another bloodline of Ham, Canaan and the father of Canaanites.

So the descendants of the one who dispossessed Noah of the secrets of living were all without exception ended up very powerful on the land.

Noah's other two children, Shem and Japheth, who did not keep any of these mystical powers ended up without any real power.

The curse placed on the Canaan line later in time came alive and consumed the Canaanites.


I will pause for questions.

I must be doing a good job, seeing that tpia has not asked me any question

my question is related to ifa but not the topic ie origins.

but what you wrote makes interesting reading, so i'm still trying to analyze it.

Lol, I can only answer the structure, the framework on Ifa but not the corpus themselves. There are corpus experts in Religion section.
In a few months from now I may be able to shed some more light on these connections.

Back to where I left off.

Who were the bloodline of Ham?

The Cannanite
---------------
Ijebusite, Amorite, Girgashite, and so on.

The Kushite
------------------
Nubians, Axumites, Abyssinians and so on.

The Nimrodite
-------------------
Yemenites, Havillahs, and so on.

The Phoenician civilization came out of Canaan. Egyptian and Ethiopian  civilization came out of Kush. Babylon and Mesopotamian civilization came out of Nimrod.


Now, here is the wow factor that tie all three branches of the bloodline to the secret dimensions that God gave to their father Noah.

The Ark was of monumental dimensions, strong to withstand the elements and the surging force of waves and current and yet firm and sturdy to hold cargoes.


The Phoenicians built the first seafaring ships (monumental structure and dimensions) and navigating instruments for sea voyage. They also created the first world Atlas.

The Egyptians built the first pyramids (monumental structure and dimensions) and underground tunnels and irrigation system.

The Babylons built the first structural tower (monumental structure and dimensions) and also a Ziggurat (raised temple with an altar top).

All three also developed the first occult orders. Canaanite was the center of religion and worship. Egypt was the training ground for esoteric art and priesthood. Babylon was the teacher of physical art and science.

One wonders how is it then that the bloodline of Shem (Children of Israel and Arabs) and Japhet (Indo-European and Far East) ended up later acquiring what their ancestors had turned down?

The change began in Babylon and Mesopatamia.

The children of Israel were the first set of mankind in slavery. They were enslaved in Egypt and they were enslaved in Babylon.
Let's reconstruct their path:

They left enslavement in Egypt and crossed into Canaan and became wandering nomads for 40yrs. Then God manifested the curse of Noah on Canaan. The Canaanites were destroyed and evicted from their land and Children of Israel became occupiers of the land. It was distributed amongst the twelve tribes.

++note - this would have been the time coinciding with the migration of Ijebus, Aworis, Itsekiris and Ijeshas and Ajashes out of Canaan and southward through Nubian territory and ultimately, years later in Nigeria.+++
Then the land now occupied by Children of Israel, splited into two kingdoms -North and South.

The Babylonians later invaded the land and took them (children of Israel) captives and others escaped.

++note - this time period should coincide with the migration of the Edomites out of their land and southward through Nubia and later ultimately settling close to the Itsekiris and the Ijebus and Ijeshas in Nigeria. +++      

For the second time, Children of Israel became slaves. By the time they started the Babylon enslavement they were already learned and accultured to the esoteric arts of Egypt, they also inherited the remnants of the knowledge and secrets of religion and worship as well as technology left behind by the evicted Canaanites, their time in Babylon then exposed and instructed them in the physical arts and sciences. At this time also their gain of different knowledges, secrets and arts led them into heretics and which greatly and adversely affected their religion. They were known now as Jews.

They were freed from Babylon by a Mesopotamian king. In their freedom most were scattered and distributed into Assyria, Armenia, and gradually helped with their new knowledge to create new civilizatuons in Greece, Rome and so on.

The rise of descendants of Shem and Japeth also coincided and in simultaneous with the decline and decay of the descendants of Ham - the curse!


I will pause for questions.

Negro_Ntns:

Lol, I can only answer the structure, the framework on Ifa but not the corpus themselves. There are corpus experts in Religion section.
In a few months from now I may be able to shed some more light on these connections.

Back to where I left off.

Who were the bloodline of Ham?

The Cannanite
---------------
Ijebusite, Amorite, Girgashite, and so on.

The Kushite
------------------
Nubians, Axumites, Abyssinians and so on.

The Nimrodite
-------------------
Yemenites, Havillahs, and so on.

The Phoenician civilization came out of Canaan. Egyptian and Ethiopian  civilization came out of Kush. Babylon and Mesopotamian civilization came out of Nimrod.


Now, here is the wow factor that tie all three branches of the bloodline to the secret dimensions that God gave to their father Noah.

The Ark was of monumental dimensions, strong to withstand the elements and the surging force of waves and current and yet firm and sturdy to hold cargoes.


The Phoenicians built the first seafaring ships (monumental structure and dimensions) and navigating instruments for sea voyage. They also created the first world Atlas.

The Egyptians built the first pyramids (monumental structure and dimensions) and underground tunnels and irrigation system.

The Babylons built the first structural tower (monumental structure and dimensions) and also a Ziggurat (raised temple with an altar top).

All three also developed the first occult orders. Canaanite was the center of religion and worship. Egypt was the training ground for esoteric art and priesthood. Babylon was the teacher of physical art and science.

One wonders how is it then that the bloodline of Shem (Children of Israel and Arabs) and Japhet (Indo-European and Far East) ended up later acquiring what their ancestors had turned down?

The change began in Babylon and Mesopatamia.

The children of Israel were the first set of mankind in slavery. They were enslaved in Egypt and they were enslaved in Babylon.
Let's reconstruct their path:

They left enslavement in Egypt and crossed into Canaan and became wandering nomads for 40yrs. Then God manifested the curse of Noah on Canaan. The Canaanites were destroyed and evicted from their land and Children of Israel became occupiers of the land. It was distributed amongst the twelve tribes.

++note - this would have been the time coinciding with the migration of Ijebus, Aworis, Itsekiris and Ijeshas and Ajashes out of Canaan and southward through Nubian territory and ultimately, years later in Nigeria.+++
Then the land now occupied by Children of Israel, splited into two kingdoms -North and South.

The Babylonians later invaded the land and took them (children of Israel) captives and others escaped.

++note - this time period should coincide with the migration of the Edomites out of their land and southward through Nubia and later ultimately settling close to the Itsekiris and the Ijebus and Ijeshas in Nigeria. +++      

For the second time, Children of Israel became slaves. By the time they started the Babylon enslavement they were already learned and accultured to the esoteric arts of Egypt, they also inherited the remnants of the knowledge and secrets of religion and worship as well as technology left behind by the evicted Canaanites, their time in Babylon then exposed and instructed them in the physical arts and sciences. At this time also their gain of different knowledges, secrets and arts led them into heretics and which greatly and adversely affected their religion. They were known now as Jews.

They were freed from Babylon by a Mesopotamian king. In their freedom most were scattered and distributed into Assyria, Armenia, and gradually helped with their new knowledge to create new civilizatuons in Greece, Rome and so on.

The rise of descendants of Shem and Japeth also coincided and in simultaneous with the decline and decay of the descendants of Ham - the curse!


I will pause for questions.  

Hmmmm,

That's complete nonsense. Its clear you people dont know where you're from. I thought you all said the world began at Ife? There's no proto-semitic, either you are or you're not. Some time ago one of you claim Yorubas were from an oriental background,lol. You dont know where yo're from and your so-called, Oba cant agree on that either. Seems to me you people came from different place and if thats not the case, you just dont know where you're from,period.

@Chyz*, have you considered the following Bible (Webster) verses?

Genesis 2:8 ―― And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Genesis 3:24 ―― So he drove out the man: and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Genesis 4:16 ―― And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

If the path of migration was eastward, is it illogical to therefore trace the origin in a westward path? If instead it is plausible should the claims as recorded in the Ifa literary corpus, that the present location of Ife is the point from which land was spread, not be given more attention?

By the way, Adam is said to mean "red earth" which has been associated with ochre, an earthy pigment containing ferric oxide, typically with clay, varying from light yellow to brown or red. That being said, is reddish looking soil not found in Nigeria, including Southwest Nigeria?

Furthermore, can't the so-called migration of the descendants of Noah westward said to be a journey back home, or a return to the motherland? Why do you think that Africa has long been referred to as the motherland?

@Negro_Ntns, I have two question for you and other willing people as well of which I know not yet the answer.
(1) Who are the descendants of P(h)ut and where are they today?

(2) How come the descendants (kings?) of the sons of Japheth and Shem are mentioned by their names but for those of Canaan, only 2 sons are mentioned, that is, Sidon and Heth (I wonder where they are now) but the rest are peoples (families) ― the Jebusite, the Emorite, the Girgasite, the Hivite, the Arkite, the Sinite, the Arvadite, the Zemarite, and the Hamathite? Could it be that the families represented instances of multiple births (Yoruba peoples have the highest twinning rates worldwide) which resulted in multiple ruling houses for individual peoples as seen amongst Yoruba-related peoples today?
I would appreciate some logical response.

You have to first consider if the question itself is logical before asking for a logical response.

Amorphous,

1. Except for one or two knowledge, I am not completely familiar with the people of Phut. Here is what I know:

Libya, Morroocco and Mauritania was settled by them.

Similarly, there was a third woman, Ketura, that bore children for Abraham, one of whom was Afar. The descendants of Afar spread southward into the African Savannah - Mali, Guinea, Futa, Agades and so on. The descendants of Phut spread Northward into Spain, Portugal, French Mediterranean and so on.


2. On the bloodlines, your observation was correct. There were two bloodlines that were suppressed in the Biblical accounts.

(A) that of Ham
(B) that of Ishmaeli branch in the Shem line.

In the 1800s, Reverend Crowther, a Yoruba of Egba stock, after acquiring knowledge in Theology, came to the understanding that there is an intimate link between the Yoruba language and culture and *Semitic* roots. He took on the challenge of producing a Yoruba language Bible. Yoruba literature at that time were written using Ajami - a Semitic style of writing that is more popular and widespread only in Arabic. The influence of his missionary position however swayed him to adopt the Latin/Roman alphabets for his literary works on the Yoruba Bible.  

++Note - This is how Esu was equated with the devil. Yoruba had no conscious concept and no term for devil in the same meaning and context the Europeans did. So the closest deity of the Yoruba culture with similar force nature to devil was adopted and that was Esu.++

Based on his findings, both in his theological studies and language translation, Reverend Crowther wrote a book detailing the journey of the Yorubas and their roots as a proto-Semitic people. The misionaries - CMS - whom he trusted to publish the book suppressed the history and told him the manuscript was lost.

I say all that to point out the suppress and isolate tactic used to teach people the wrong history and ideology.

*Semitic* - to those who are locked into the "semitic = Jew" notion. I used *semitic* here to denote a broad race of people of Afro Asiatic origin.


On Yoruba twin births. The success story of twins is celebrated in many verses of Ifa corpus. We know Ifa predates Abraham, who predated Moses, who brought Torah (Old Testament) in which accounts were also made of twin births.

Duality in nature was started in the first day of creation. It continued into the time of Noah, with the "two of every kind" instruction and the duality continues even today to emanate itself. However, there are two aspects of the twin birth that are unique to Yoruba.

There is an unbeaten record of twin birth rates in Yoruba blood.

(A) Ifa is the only scripture with details and rituals to celebrate twin births.

++ Note - When I say rituals I don't want it to be taken as a devilish or idol worshipping. Rituals was given a bad image by whiteman and because our education and philosophical taughts are shaped after oyinbo's ideals we Africans have equally come to regard ritual as heathenism. Ritual is life, good life!  Everything in Old testament is ritual. Every command and every injunction, including the altar design and the offerings placed on it are all rituals. So you cannot accept the rituals of the Bible as Godly and demonize the ritual of Ifa as idol worship. ++

(B) Yoruba is the only people that switch seniority of birth in a twin delivery, making the first arrival junior to the second arrival and every one else in that delivery of a multiple birth retain their numbered order of arrival. Example: first to arrive is Taiwo, second is Kehinde, third is Idowu, fourth is Alaba, fifth is Idogbe and so on.

In Yoruba culture Kehinde is switched and becomes the eldest, followed in seniority by Taiwo. Idowu remains third, followed by Alaba and then Idogbe.

But why do we practice this switch and why is it limited to just the first two?  

The answer is the same with the Dada hair mystery (lock-hair).

In the Bible, Esau (Edom) was the elder of Jacob (Israel) but their birthrights were switched in an errand ordered by the Father and in which Jacob's mother interferred to favor her son. Also, Jacob in his old age, nearing death, ordered his son Joseph to bring Manasseh and Simeon (Joseph's sons) for blessings. When Jacob crossed his hands and placed right hand on Simeon's head and left on Manasseh's, Joseph asked why is Father switching the blessings of the elder with the younger.

This was a perfect moment for the Bible to make reference to Ifa corpus but instead it reduced the reason to mere circumstance of choice in both incidences. From that point on the Children of Israel (Jews) have practiced the crossed blessings.

To the Jews it was a ritual practiced by their fathers. To Yorubas it is a ritual of origin in Ifa.

The first egg to be fertilized is the second to arrive and the second egg is the first arrival. Someday Western Science will catch up to it. Like they did binary code and the ordered sequence 256 upon which a mathematical theorem was built and is applied in quantum physics.

Dada's hair is another marker to the many list of markers that exist to make the Yoruba / Afro-Asia link credible.

I may be wrong but in all accounts so far I have examined Yorubas are also the only one of a few people in the world with natural born dreadlocks.

The dreadlocks was another of proto-semitic feature but is more prominent with Jews.

If you recall, Samson's dreadlock was cut to weaken his strength.

In early Islam it was important to distinguish between Moslems and non-moslems. So physically visible features such as full beard, shaven head became sunnah (tradition). The shaving of head was such that its even recommended that newborn must be shaven before the naming ceremony on the 7th day. The newborn hair is considered unclean for spiritual worship and thus all clothing in contact must be washed and the body cleansed prior to prayer.  

I will pause for questions.

I will reply in a few hours time, GOD-willing. By the way, do you have a personal blog?

@Chyz*

When you write or speak in public understand that the whole world is watching. My take on this is somebody is teaching and you are just antagonizing, getting all upset throwing insults. Maybe both of you have fights before but for some of us newbees we don't know and would like to learn. from my personal studies the guy is making more sense. By the way except you are the Oba of Benin or know so much about the benin history then you shouldn't speak for Edo people too. In case you dont know, then know it now Edo/Benin  and Yoruba share a common ancestor. Oduduwa/Ekaledeha whose Son Oranmiyan ruled benin and gave birth to Oba Eweka the first. The histories of the world surpass anything you might think you know so please allow those of us that want to learn, learn in peace. Finally every Nigerian should take pleasure in knowing and celebrating the different state cultures that make up Nigeria and never discriminate. I will be the first to call myself an Ibo, Yoruba, Edo, Calabar, Idoma, etc because I see myself as a full Nigerian and would love to associate with every tribe and culture that makes up the country. To me, it is a pure blessing to have so many beautiful tribes and cultures in one country. By the way what is this thing you have against Yoruba? cos you seems to be hammering and attacking anything that has that word on it. Pls take a chill pill. Finally there are many Yoruba words in Edo and vice vicers

'Will wait for your response.

I used to but is no longer active. It was called

"TheGlobalCouncil.org"

I once thought of looking to the Truth for inspiration concerning a Yoruba system of writing but since you have mentioned Ajami I want to learn. I read somewhere about the allegedly missing transcript - Samuel Johnson was the author and not Bishop Ajayi Crowther.


Do you think there's a possibility that the present occupants of Libya and Morocco are not the real descendants of Put?
Do you have any idea for the change of name of Mizraim to Egypt and whether that could have applied to other ancient peoples who seem to have "disappeared"?

Is it not better to use the term binary system instead of duality, with regard to creation since duality refers to equality whereas the creation narrative clearly mentions the greater and lesser e.g. Sun and Moon?


As for the Dada hair, I've been wondering whether Absalom had a sizable Afro or Dada hair because I still find it hard to imagine oyinbo hair getting stuck in a tree. The long Dada hair could easily get into knots in my opinion.

About the switch of seniority for twin delivery, I guess it is related strictly to fraternal twins. If the twins are identical would the switch still apply? Also, I don't yet know how egoistic science can observe in real time the fertilization process to see the order.

My preliminary take on the origin of Ifa is that it was in use and perhaps misused before and during the time of Noah and that blind and/or wicked people might have introduced fables and, like for Genesis 1-3, perhaps literal interpretations for allegory in some instances. I have also heard from someone who listened to an interview with Oschoffa of Celestial Church of Christ wherein he said that GOD allowed the white man to suppress the Yoruba (Hamites in general?) peoples with religion because of the wicked application of secret knowledge by the latter. Instances can be seen in accounts of the time Jesus was in Egypt (according to Thomas?), that of Moses' rod and those of the Egyptian magicians, and the stories that still abound today (Nkan n be type).

One more observation - have you considered the following verse?Genesis 25:22: And the children struggled together within her: and she said, If [it is] so, why [am] I thus? And she went to inquire of the LORD.
I wonder how Rebekah inquired when in the previous verse it was recorded that "Isaac entreated the LORD for his wife".

Perhaps Rebekah went to see a prophet of GOD.

<quote>

One more observation - have you considered the following verse?Genesis 25:22: And the children struggled together within her: and she said, If [it is] so, why [am] I thus? And she went to inquire of the LORD.
I wonder how Rebekah inquired when in the previous verse it was recorded that "Isaac entreated the LORD for his wife".

</quote>

I'd love first to respond to this question. I will take them (your questions) in piecemeal.

Isaac was the father of the twins Esau and Jacob. Jacob, later named Israel was the father of twelve children from where the twelve tribes of Israel originated and amongst whom was Levite - the bloodline of the three siblings, Moses, Aaron and Miriam who were born in late generations.
Miriam, the eldest interceded with Pharaoh's wife to hire a nursing mother for baby Moses. She is one of the revered women in Islam, beside Maryam (Jesus' mother).

"Rebeccah inquired of the Lord". "Isaac entreated the Lord".

How, in what manner or line of communication (what medium) was this contact or interaction made?

Of course through divination and offerings!

<quote>

My preliminary take on the origin of Ifa is that it was in use and perhaps misused before and during the time of Noah and that blind and/or wicked people might have introduced fables and, like for Genesis 1-3, perhaps literal interpretations for allegory in some instances. I have also heard from someone who listened to an interview with Oschoffa of Celestial Church of Christ wherein he said that GOD allowed the white man to suppress the Yoruba (Hamites in general?) peoples with religion because of the wicked application of secret knowledge by the latter. Instances can be seen in accounts of the time Jesus was in Egypt (according to Thomas?), that of Moses' rod and those of the Egyptian magicians, and the stories that still abound today (Nkan n be type).

</quote>

You are correct. The knowledge meant for use to advance humanity we divert and use to deplete humanity. Let me highlight a very good instance in the case of Moses.

Moses went on a vigil, he went up the mountain to pray and recive instructions from God. Prior to departing he left Aaron in charge of the flock.

Shortly after he left, the children of Israel became agitated and started rebeling. They took ornaments and melted them in a furnace and created a gold mold of a calf that they started worshipping. When Moses returned and discovered this he was very upset and asked Aaron why he allowed that to happen. Aaron said he could not restrain them but he foresaw this might happen and so he had scooped up the sand footprint left when Moses departed.

Aaron's action was meant to preserve Moses authority and it worked because the authority of his voice when he addressed them appeased their rebellion and he ended up leading them for 40yrs afterwards.

If it hadn't been for Aaron's action using occult art to preserve authority the children of Israel would not have accepted the 10 commandments or the Old Testament.

In Africa, black people use occult art for the wrong reason - we don't scoop footprint to preserve anything, we will use it to cripple and maim so the owner of the foot end up loosing use of the foot thus becoming handicapped and loosing their capability for productive lifestyle.

In the Biblical narration of Noah's flood alone there are very many occult codes. Even in the worshipping of the calf there is occultism.

Egypt was the home of occultism back then. From Egypt occult art and priesthood was exported to every corner of the earth.

<quote>

About the switch of seniority for twin delivery, I guess it is related strictly to fraternal twins. If the twins are identical would the switch still apply? Also, I don't yet know how egoistic science can observe in real time the fertilization process to see the order

</quote>

In both instances, fraternal and identical, the delivery is one at a time. The first child out is Taiwo, the second is Kehinde and their seniority is cross-switched.

<quote>

Is it not better to use the term binary system instead of duality, with regard to creation since duality refers to equality whereas the creation narrative clearly mentions the greater and lesser e.g. Sun and Moon, as observed by Alice Linsley as well?

</quote>

Binary is a scientific term and denotes something discrete and interchangeable in its essence.

For instance in an event of 1 0 0 1, the zeros and ones are interchangeable in state given an elapsed time - its dynamic.

Duality in nature does not change from its designated state - its fixed in its nature.

Equality is an illusion.

<quote>

Do you think there's a possibility that the present occupants of Libya and Morocco are not the real descendants of Put?
Do you have any idea for the change of name of Mizraim to Egypt and whether that could have applied to other ancient peoples who seem to have "disappeared"?

</quote>

There is without doubt a substitute race of people in North Africa, some mixed and some of pure caucasian roots.

The eviction of Canaanites from their land became a model used and perfected over time by ambitious races to invade and totally change a people and their land for new occupants.

I don't know why Mizraim was changed to Egypt (aegypt) or Havillah became Yemen or Massina became Mali.

The colonization and occupation of lands is a constant environmental phenomenon and can be attributed to nature's intent for diversity.

In the first place, what is Ifa?
Can Ifa be likened to a computer of the universe? If so, have there been frequent software (content) updates as at when needed?
In multiple births (more than two children at a time), how is it known for certain that Idowu or Alaba is not the senior instead?
What exactly is sand scooping?

Ifa is a faith. It is a divine guidance for

1. The ASE (authority) of the Supreme Being.

2. Inter-exchange between humans.

3. Relational knowledge of the environment and all organic life,

4. The relational axis of humans within the cosmos.

5. The knowledge and understanding of cosmic deities and their purpose.

Ifa is the first constitutional order that gives man liberty and freedom and the will to self-determination.

In the creation of Adam in Genesis, he was made male and female and then GOD felt he needed a mate and so brought all the animals for him to name them, which he did.

It would seem that was a mental exercise, a cognitive recall of something learned or thought out. But no it wasn't. The naming was inspired, an act of involuntary origin emanating itself from within the spirit. After he finished naming the animals his cognitive abilities and mental awareness or senses were now awakened to the environment. So that when subsequent to that event GOD presented to him Eve, he instantly reacted with glee and joy because he was awakened to physical relativity and their meanings.

Similarly in Ifa, most of the verses are coded in allegories involving animal scenarios. They are lessons for life. By understanding the animal stories we appreciate living.

Ifa, like scriptures, can be likened to a repository or database in which is contained the rules by which the affairs of mankind is ordered.


I don't know what "sand scooping" is but the Moses reference was where he left footprints in the sand and his brother collected and preserved the imprint left in the sand.

Negro_Ntns:

Ifa, like scriptures, can be likened to a repository or database in which is contained the rules by which the affairs of mankind is ordered.

But aren't there updates to "fix holes" for instance the earlier use of 8 palm kernels before the use of 16?


If we migrated from the former land of Canaan, how is it that the sacrificial prescriptions ie snails, palm oil, yam etc are found in our present abode but the those mentioned in the Torah are different? Could it be that our ancestors adopted Ifa when migrating to where we are now?

A little digression perhaps: Are the people of Ibadan the Ephraimites who could not pronounce the /ʃ/ sound (as in shoe)?

First, an error correction! When on the issue of crossed-blessings for the children of Joseph by Jacob (Isreal), I believe I said Manasseh and Simeon. That would be wrong.

Your question on Ephraim sparked my recollection.

Joseph had two children and they were Manasseh (elder) and Ephraim (younger), but their seniority were switched in blessings.


Anyway, on the 8th and 16th order of divination, no they are not flaws or "holes" as you implied.

In an orchestra, you can compose and produce in the 8th or 16th harmonics and each will be beautiful.

Ifa was with our ancestors and they migrated with it. It was not a discovery along the way.

On the objects of offerings, Ifa is universal. So that if you are in Yorubaland where we have snails, palm oil and yam, then you make offerings with these. If you are Cuba where there is no snail, palm oil or yam, then you make offering with substitutes.

Nature is simple, and so is life, when lived in accordance to the codes of the cosmic deities. However mankind loves to create additional regulations and laws and codes that by-passes a simplistic way of life and thus in the confines of his artificial rules everybody's life is made difficult and terrifying.

Ifa is very liberal and accomodating, not confining or narrow. If there's no snail, palm oil and yam, the Priest can divine for what substitutes within the local area will appply.


On the topic of Ibadan being Ephraim, I am not sure. I can't make a direct link between Ibadan and Ephraim based on the "S"; "Sh" pronounciation alone but there ample indirect links.

Remember also that there is no people called Ibadan; because Ibadan is a location, but there are Oyos and you might want to search through the archives using that as a key.

There are good links between Oyo and Babylonia than is between Oyo and Ephraim.

Now let me say that Ephraim was sacked from the land of Canaan and is reputed to have migrated to Persia. The Persian Jews are said to be some remnants of the Ephraimite tribe. There is an Ibadan in Persia.

Also, where did the Yoruba term "alanu Samaria" come from? What is its origin?

Moses did not make it to the promised land with the Children of Israel. When they arrived there the conquest was led by Joshua. After Joshua sacked the Canaanites their land was distributed amongst the tribes. Samaria was the land given to the Ephraim tribe.


Amorphous, you can do some research on this topic and share what you find.

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I appreciate your input. I cannot agree or dispute this account because I stay away from scientifical account to tell me where my ancestors were from or have been. Science is younger and latent, I prefer my reliance on the human spirit to tell its own journey. For this reason my approach is always from the historical/scriptural angle.

However, I am sure other readers are also interested in the scientific explanation and will find knowleddge based on the addition.

The dating of skeletal remains is an approximate based on a testing standard or benchmark and is far from absolute or factual but is always "on a best guess".

There is no best guess in saying that Yoruba is proto-Semitic; the cottage industry of batik and tie dye came from the Canaans, the language is ancient Hebrew, the rituals are the same, the artifacts are rooted in the region, . . . . So a science of best guess cannot disprove that as false.

There is without doubt a substitute race of people in North Africa, some mixed and some of pure caucasian roots.

This is what I've found out about the Amorites.
The Egyptologist Flinders Petrie and Assyriologist Archibald Henry Sayce analysed Egyptian illustrations of what they identified as Amorites (Amurru) depicted as "white skinned, blue eyed, fair haired". According to Sayce (1889):
“ “The Amorites, were a tall, handsome people, with white skins, blue eyes and reddish hair, all the characteristics, in fact, of the white race.” ”
Sayce further discovered a painting in a tomb (No. 34) at Thebes, belonging to the Eighteenth Dynasty which illustrates an Amorite chief with "white skin and red-brown hair". Henry George Tomkins (1897) an Exeter clergyman and member of the Royal Archaeological Institute also wrote the Amorites were blue eyed and fair haired. Easton's Bible Dictionary also contains an entry stating the Amorites are "represented on the Egyptian monuments with fair skins, light hair, blue eyes, aquiline noses, and pointed beards." The Encyclopædia Britannica, 13th ed., vol. 1, 1929, also contained a physical description of the Amorites from Egyptian illustrations:
“ “Egyptian illustrations of the New Kingdom show the Palestinian Amorites to have been a race much more like the Northern Europeans than the Semites; long-headed, with blue eyes, straight noses and thin lips.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amorite

I wonder if they are Caucasians and are the ones described thus
Genesis 15:16: But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites [is] not yet full.

Binary is a scientific term and denotes something discrete and interchangeable in its essence.

For instance in an event of 1 0 0 1, the zeros and ones are interchangeable in state given an elapsed time - its dynamic.

Duality in nature does not change from its designated state - its fixed in its nature.

Doesn't the term BINARY infer that the object of reference cannot simultaneously exist in both states but has to be either one or the other, as in
"Matthew 6:24: No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon."

In my opinion, duality points to dual existence of which I doubt the possibility.

Where does IFA stand today? (I'm aware that OLORUN is, before the existence of time.)

Can't it be said that science is a framework for the expression of the human spirit? If so, science would be seen as evolving till the best guess reaches perfection. However I feel that with time it has been placed ahead on the human spirit and as a result has been driven further away from perfection at the beginning.

Is the Holy Trinity mentioned in the Ifa literary corpus?
Likewise Hermes Trismegistus and Melchizedek


By the way, that chain as mentioned in our creation myth does exist. This I know for sure.