As a Software Engineer which of these Software Engineering maths are you working with: The Vienna Development Method (VDM), Z, CCS, CSP, OBJ or LOTOS?

If you have not heard of The Vienna Development Method (VDM), Z, CCS, CSP, OBJ or LOTOS before then you are not yet a Software Engineer.

Ok

Okay, looks like there are no software engineers here

I don't know what you will gain deceiving people.


Rubbish post.

Meaning no developer on this forum has yet worked on air traffic controller systems, air plane auto pilot, rocket systems, satellite systems, spaceship etc that uses Formal Methods Software Engineering Mathematics.

CodingSoft:
Meaning no developer on this forum has yet worked on air traffic controller systems, air plane auto pilot, rocket systems, satellite systems, spaceship etc that uses Formal Methods Software Engineering Mathematics.

this is expert systems uasing formal methods, a sub area of AI. I think you should rephrase your question. I don't think many people might be interested in it when we have data driven approaches like deep learning and so on.

jesmond3945:
this is expert systems uasing formal methods, a sub area of AI. I think you should rephrase your question. I don't think many people might be interested in it when we have data driven approaches like deep learning and so on.

No Formal Methods in Software Engineering maths is for Mission, Critical, Life Critical and Business Critical applications that must not fail like Air Traffic control system as you don't want 10 airplanes all landing at once on the same runway.

CodingSoft:


No Formal Methods in Software Engineering maths is for Mission, Critical, Life Critical and Business Critical applications that must not fail like Air Traffic control system as you don't want 10 airplanes all landing at once on the same runway.

i think formal methods should serve as additional tool. There is no way you can capture all the subsystem even the fine grain details by modelling alone. The data from a system is the best way to capture all the fine grain details of a system.

jesmond3945:
i think formal methods should serve as additional tool. There is no way you can capture all the subsystem even the fine grain details by modelling alone. The data from a system is the best way to capture all the fine grain details of a system.

Formal methods in Software Engineering maths is needed to first carry out a mathematical proof of concept that the data coming in and data going out of a system are free from errors. Like a phone system, you won't like another person to have the same number as yourself, which makes such a system a business critical system.

CodingSoft:


Formal methods in Software Engineering maths is needed to first carry out a mathematical proof of concept that the data coming in and data going out of a system are free from errors. Like a phone system, you won't like another person to have the same number as yourself, which makes such a system a business critical system.

like i said it is theoretical. There is a limit to theory in capturing all the variables that make up a system. Thats why even with mathematical formulation, the system can fail. Why because all billions of features or cases have not been captured. However with a data driven approach the system is able to capture this billions of features and cases making it more robust and powerful. Infact with data driven approaches most critical system will survive and thrive a billion years without any maintenance.

jesmond3945:
like i said it is theoretical. There is a limit to theory in capturing all the variables that make up a system. Thats why even with mathematical formulation, the system can fail. Why because all billions of features or cases have not been captured. However with a data driven approach the system is able to capture this billions of features and cases making it more robust and powerful. Infact with data driven approaches most critical system will survive and thrive a billion years without any maintenance.

You are very wrong! Look at it this way, that when engineers build a bridge they don't tell people to come and drive their cars over the bridge to try their bridge with millions of actual cars to test their mathematical modelling to see whether the bridge will fall or not. Same with Formal methods in Software Engineering Mathematics, it is used just like in building a bridge to make sure critical applications do not fail before users starts using them.

CodingSoft:


You are very wrong! Look at it this way, that when engineers build a bridge they don't tell people to come and drive their cars over the bridge to try their bridge with millions of actual cars to test their mathematical modelling to see whether the bridge will fall or not. Same with Formal methods in Software Engineering Mathematics, it is used just like in building a bridge to make sure critical applications do not fail before users starts using them.

then why do bridges fail?
If mathematical modelling captures everything, all the variables. Remember that it would take several years of iteration to get the right model what will take machine learning months.

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jesmond3945:
then why do bridges fail?
If mathematical modelling captures everything, all the variables. Remember that it would take several years of iteration to get the right model what will take machine learning months.

If a bridge falls then it's due to bad workmen not following the specifications given by the engineers. It's like when a house falls down, this is due to bad workmen not following the specifications given by the structural engineers.

Machine learning makes use of statistics which means it is not fail safe as statistics is not 100% accurate but just a calculated guess of an outcome. But Formal methods in Software Engineering Mathematics does not use statistics which means it is 100 accurate fail safe.

CodingSoft:


If a bridge falls then it's due to bad workmen not following the specifications given by the engineers. It's like when a house falls down, this is due to bad workmen not following the specifications given by the structural engineers.

Machine learning makes use of statistics which means it is not fail safe as statistics is not 100% accurate but just a calculated guess of an outcome. But Formal methods in Software Engineering Mathematics does not use statistics which means it is 100 accurate fail safe.

machine learning makes use of data and uses statistics to analyze the data. You cannot compare the power of data to the power of an abstract model of a system which is flawed. The formal methods you are using today came out of the need to have a temporary system in place to design sofware and tech systems. However, we have seen the unreliability of these syetems. With AI and data driven approaches, all apsects of the system is captured which mitigates future failure concerns.

Engineers do follow specifications and bridges still fail. Then they go back to their drawing board to find out why. With machine learning and data, their questions are answered immediately.

jesmond3945:
machine learning makes use of data and uses statistics to analyze the data. You cannot compare the power of data to the power of an abstract model of a system which is flawed. The formal methods you are using today came out of the need to have a temporary system in place to design sofware and tech systems. However, we have seen the unreliability of these syetems. With AI and data driven approaches, all apsects of the system is captured which mitigates future failure concerns.

Engineers do follow specifications and bridges still fail. Then they go back to their drawing board to find out why. With machine learning and data, their questions are answered immediately.

I will now give you a free lecture into the world of Formal methods in Software Engineering Mathematics which uses Discrete mathematics to test simulated real life data models from finite to infinite to make sure the input and output of a system is fail safe. So you are very wrong because the data models used in Formal methods in Software Engineering Mathematics represents real life data like a system accepting input of one person to over 5 billion persons and same number of outputs.
"Discrete mathematics is the study of mathematical structures that are countable or otherwise distinct and separable. Examples of structures that are discrete are combinations, graphs, and logical statements. Discrete structures can be finite or infinite." https://brilliant.org/wiki/discrete-mathematics

Machine learning uses statistics which means a calculated guess of an outcome and so cannot the 100% accurate, if you disagree then why can you not use machine learning to predict this Saturday's lottery result as you have real data of results from decades ago to work with?

Formal methods in Software Engineering Mathematics gives you a Yes or No answer which is 100% correct all the time, whereas machine learning uses statistics to predict what may happen which cannot the 100% correct.

You are wrong because structural engineers that compute the mathematical specifications spend most of their time in the office and they are not the workmen on site building a bridge the structural engineers do go for inspections but are not on site 100% of the time to monitor the workmen, so if the structural engineers specification says 1000 bags is required but the foreman gives workmen on site 500 bags of cement to cut corners and then the bridge falls how is that now the fault of the structural engineers?

CodingSoft:
Meaning no developer on this forum has yet worked on air traffic controller systems, air plane auto pilot, rocket systems, satellite systems, spaceship etc that uses Formal Methods Software Engineering Mathematics.

Nice one.

CodingSoft:
Meaning no developer on this forum has yet worked on air traffic controller systems, air plane auto pilot, rocket systems, satellite systems, spaceship etc that uses Formal Methods Software Engineering Mathematics.

You sound like you copied something off the internet then garbage post it here.

Paystack:

You sound like you copied something off the internet then garbage post it here.

You are the one talking garbage because you believe programming starts and end with the little you know. If you can start doing research it will help you to be enlightened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Development_Method
The Vienna Development Method (VDM) is one of the longest-established formal methods for the development of computer-based systems. Originating in work done at the IBM Laboratory Vienna
[1] in the 1970s, it has grown to include a group of techniques and tools based on a formal specification language—the VDM Specification Language (VDM-SL). It has an extended form, VDM++,
[2] which supports the modeling of object-oriented and concurrent systems. Support for VDM includes commercial and academic tools for analyzing models, including support for testing and proving properties of models and generating program code from validated VDM models. There is a history of industrial usage of VDM and its tools and a growing body of research in the formalism has led to notable contributions to the engineering of critical systems, compilers, concurrent systems and in logic for computer science.

CodingSoft:


You are the one talking garbage because you believe programming starts and end with the little you know. If you can start doing research it will help you to be enlightened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Development_Method
The Vienna Development Method (VDM) is one of the longest-established formal methods for the development of computer-based systems. Originating in work done at the IBM Laboratory Vienna
[1] in the 1970s, it has grown to include a group of techniques and tools based on a formal specification language—the VDM Specification Language (VDM-SL). It has an extended form, VDM++,
[2] which supports the modeling of object-oriented and concurrent systems. Support for VDM includes commercial and academic tools for analyzing models, including support for testing and proving properties of models and generating program code from validated VDM models. There is a history of industrial usage of VDM and its tools and a growing body of research in the formalism has led to notable contributions to the engineering of critical systems, compilers, concurrent systems and in logic for computer science.

It was the way you mentioned a subset of areas in which software engineering is applicable and seemed to infer anyone who hasn't worked in those areas isn't a software engineer.

Paystack:

It was the way you mentioned a subset of areas in which software engineering is applicable and seemed to infer anyone who hasn't worked in those areas isn't a software engineer.

Rather it's a layer in the software development process where validated mathematical models are created, from which codes for critical systems should be written. I would suggest it's used when writing code for any systems.

50 million mobile phones in Japan are using VDM or something has been developed inside these phones with VDM.