Do we all at least agree that if the Nigerian government were a competent/good one, Nigerians would benefit far more from $4 billion/year spent on roads, education, etc instead of pounded yam and egusi petroleum subsidy?

Or does anyone disagree with this?

If you agree with the above, and just basically want to keep the subsidy because you think the gov't won't do anything better with it, then I can at least see how your POV makes some sense.

It is unfortunate most of the commentators here cannot be called ordinary Nigerians. Majority of you guys are beneficiaries of the corrupt system in Nigeria in one way or the other; and cannot therefore really appreciate the hardship people at home are facing.

Whose responsibility is it to protect our economy and provide jobs with treasonable income to the population? Why can't our people have jobs? Why is our schools, infrastructure and everything in bad shape? Why can't we have a working refinery when a poor country like Niger without oil has just built one.

This PDP government have been talking of removing oil subsidy since 2000, what plans have they put in place? why must they talk of deregulating the oil sector when even Sugar, Cement, Rice, flour importation is protected for their patron Dangote? If they want to liberalize the economy let them hands off everything. Why are they being selective, only favouring themselves and their cronies? Why have they sold all Nigerian companies at give away rices to themselves?

It is just unfortunate that enough of the masses have not got the message, when they do, there will surely be a revolution and bloods will flow.

If God wills, I will live to see it and it will be fun.
[table][/table]
The crises in the land is just the beginning. More is yet to come. In the beginning, the stealing was only between the Awos, the Ziks, the Saduanas; today a lot more people are joining that it cannot be enough.

We have reached a point of no return. They just want to get more money for themselves. The ones they have they failed to use properly. Forget any nonsense economic argument. The fact is that the government must reduce corruption before they can further tax the Nigerian people in any way.

They only want to further squeeze us so that they will have more loots to share.

Enough of these lies.

Nice work on the price of petrol in the US & UK, pls let us know the price of Petrol in venezuela, saudi arabia Iraq Libya e.t.c they are oil producing countries too.

mumu boy, do they spend naira in US/UK, $4 in usa is just like saying #4 in nigeria, we dont spend the same currency, hence u cant compare us

You don't compare gold and clay; if the government can reproduce the same level of infrastructure and quality of life in the places you mentioned then by all means let them charge the same thing.

MUST YOU GUYS REPLY EVERY THREAD.
THE BEST WOULD HAVE BEEN TO IGNORE THIS IGNORANT BUFFON WHOEVER HE IS.

Blackpeople are suffering in the USA!

77ken:

Nice work on the price of petrol in the US & UK, pls let us know the price of Petrol in venezuela, saudi arabia Iraq Libya e.t.c they are oil producing countries too.

Whoever you are you are one smart son of a gun!!!! @ekt_bear and billante he has posed a good question for you both. What is the price of petol in countries that produce crude in commercial quantities, what is the price of petrol in OPEC member nations These are the questions you should be asking and not comparing Nigeria to USA and UK were the standard of living is over 200% higher than Nigeria. Countries where their citizens receive benefits from the govt. Countries where you can see tax payers money at work. Btw, we can actually call subsidies our own benefits from the govt.

The proper questions we should be asking is "why are the refineries not working", "why should we produce crude and send them abroad for refining" And not supporting the useless policies of our govt.

@77ken; all these are per litre and not gallon like the OP has led us to believe

Venezuela = $0.023
Saudi Arabia = $0.16
Libya= $0.17
UAE = $0.48
Qatar = $0.22
USA = $1.00
Russia = $0.94


Imagine people comparing Nigeria to UK and USA!!! They just would never learn!!! Its like comparing and elephant to an ant.

oyb:

what dapo completely fails to understand is that REMOVAL OF THE SUBSIDY WILL NOT CHANGE ANYTHING.

there is absolutely no sincerity on the part of the government

there was a time when fuel was n11 per litre - toay at n65 per litre, there is stiill no change, other than the fact that transport fares and associated prices have all gone up.

all the talk about selling the refineries - the obj govt tried to sell warri or was it ph refinery and then shut it own when it became clear teh winner would not be one of their candidates.

if they had been successful, that company would be as dead as nitel today.

during the obbj years, the price of fuel was raised twice - we had all sorts of ridiculous adverts - people daning and telling about the nirvana that would come from the increase in pump price. nada

all that will happen is some people will make a killing, and business will continue as usual.

Thought you were about to give more elaborate reasons for 'fuel subsidy removal' but you goofed when you blatantly contradicted yourself in the 3rd paragraph

lol omg, some poeple lack the rational ways of thinking lol
FYI todays average in london is £1.35/ltr
but at least you see petrol everywhere,Nigeria is a complex problematic country and complex problems need complex solutions.

i dont know why stupid ppl try to pass themselves off as intelligent. fine. we know you are based abroad and you have money. what else do you want to inform us?

ekt_bear:

Do we all at least agree that if the Nigerian government were a competent/good one, Nigerians would benefit far more from $4 billion/year spent on roads, education, etc instead of pounded yam and egusi petroleum subsidy?

Or does anyone disagree with this?

If you agree with the above, and just basically want to keep the subsidy because you think the gov't won't do anything better with it, then I can at least see how your POV makes some sense.

You do not have to remind us that our government is not competent(we all know) otherwise we will not be having this conversation.Considering the level of unemployment,hardship,gross decay and under-development in infrastructure,there is obviously no rational in inflicting more hardship on Nigerians by reducing further the purchasing power of their available earnings.

Am sure that most of the people comparing prices of fuel in the USA and Nigeria had been in the four walls of a school. Just don't understand how common sense becomes too difficult for some. Like someone rightly pointed out, guess those doing the comparison remember their SSCE Economics- purchasing power. Please I suggest you read it up or rather google it (where you people always get your ill-researched "facts") before comparing "apple" and "orange".

When people post imbecilic posts like the OP did, you wonder whether the school they went to was just to fulfil all righteousness or whether the knowledge is to be applied.

What is the minimum wage in Nigeria? It is less than $120 a month.

In the US, the minimum wage is about $7.25 an hour, translating into $58 a day for a 9am to 5pm job type. So an average American worker warns in two days as minimum wage, what his Nigerian counterpart earns in 30 days.

In the UK, it is 5.93 pounds ($9.13) if you are 21 years and above, translating into $73.04 a month for an 8 hour day. So a UK worker earning minimum wage makes in 4 days, what a Nigerian minimum wage worker makes in 2 and a half months!

- How much does the average household or businessman spend on electricity generation?
- How much does haulage of goods cost in Nigeria and US (check the distances in kilometers for both countries and compare over the road network)
- How much does does it cost to open a corporate account, also factoring in the time spent on the process?
- How many N20 bribes does a driver pay on the PH - Enugu expressway? (I have once counted 32 checkpoints on such a journey some years back).
- What is the cost of cooking fuel in Nigeria compared with other countries?
- Is there a functional rail transport system in Nigeria compared with other countries where goods can be hauled cheaply?

And someone who said he went to school will be asking such a question?

Funny. Why not compare the price with Saudi Arabia, after all they are an oil-producing nation like Nigeria? The mere fact that the UK and US are more industrialized than Nigeria should mean they will pay more for fuel/energy sources.

ekt_bear:

Do we all at least agree that if the Nigerian government were a competent/good one, Nigerians would benefit far more from $4 billion/year spent on roads, education, etc instead of pounded yam and egusi petroleum subsidy?

Or does anyone disagree with this?

If you agree with the above, and[b] just basically want to keep the subsidy because you think the gov't won't do anything better with it[/b], then I can at least see how your POV makes some sense.

1.you just answered your Q

2.i wonder what benefit when you know that an increase in the crude oil will automaticallybe an increase in food,transport  e'cetra

How have I answered my own question?

Perhaps not everyone agrees on the first quote.

no body have to agree, its something known to everyone unless you want to lie to urself,

Why is this guy lying? Per gallon is not per liter OMG! The national average is currently $1/litr,  with some cities selling for 70cents/ltr ,  But please consider the earning power of the citizens before raising the price to international level,

yeah you are right but do they(USA/UK) produce petrol like nigeria

The op and ekt-bear,whatever you are, just want to whip up sentiments. so the NLC is a dummy for calling a strike action if the subsidy is removed and fuel price increases?

We are calling for a revolution to destroy this corrupt government and its suprising you two have faith in a dead system. I feel like slapping both of you.

Well i think the Govt should remove the goddamned subsidy and increase fuel price, maybe that would cause the revolution to come faster.

which revolution
is it Nigerians wey dey fear like women!

We must understand that our economy is not the same. Can you compare 3 Naira to 3 dollars? I think our government should think of how to stop importing fuel to Nigeria. This is a solution that will bring improvement on the economy and will not introduce hardship on the people. LET US THINK! Increasing fuel price will only introduce more hardship, crime, inflation and others.

The price of petroleum products can't be cheaper in Nigeria even if it was refined in Nigeria. It will be more expensive! Why? Because refineries are internationally sourced. In other words, Nigeria does not have the expertise that would be employed to construct and maintain refineries and as such has to to pay top dollar to international companies (e.g Bechtel or Total) to build and maintain refineries. Refinery inputs (crude) will be gotten from IOCs like Shell or Exxon-Mobil.

How would you convince a company like Shell to sell crude to a refinery below international market prices after investing billions in shareholder funds to extract that crude? Would the FG, States and Local Governments agree to sell crude to private refineries at subsidized rates? Why would a private refinery go through all the trouble to refine subsidized crude when it can round-trip that crude to the international market and make billions without doing anything?  

In light of the scenarios above, we now understand why the IOCs or private companies have refused to invest in refineries in Nigeria. Inputs are market priced while out puts (petroleum products) are fixed by populist political fiat. Because of low fixed prices, demand exceeds local supply leading to shortages and scarcity. There won't be any supply springing up to meet that demand as end products will be sold at a loss. That means the NNPC will continue to solely supply petroleum products with its attendant inefficiency, corruption and rent-seeking.

Only deregulation will solve all these problems and bring in private sector investment and efficiency that will ultimately drive down price due to competition.

@OP
I have never come across a more annoying thread!

Subsidy was put in the first place to compensate for the fact that our refineries are out of order

If they want to remove it shouldn't they get our refineries up and running?

the minimum wage in the UK and US is far higher than the minimum wage in nigeria;
the government in these countries are also much more responsible for the welfare of their citizens than the naija government is; there are a million and one reason why the prize of fuel in the UK and US should not be compared to the prize of fuel in naija.
i wonder why no one has posted that even though nigeria is 6-7th largest producer of crude oil, the prize of fuel in naija is not among the first 10 cheapest in the world.

shaun1:

the minimum wage in the UK and US is far higher than the minimum wage in nigeria;
the government in these countries are also much more responsible for the welfare of their citizens than the naija government is; there are a million and one reason why the prize of fuel in the UK and US should not be compared to the prize of fuel in naija.
i wonder why no one has posted that even though nigeria is 6-7th largest producer of crude oil, the prize of fuel in naija is not among the first 10 cheapest in the world.

Cos most 9ja think upside down.but mainwhile people live withinthier means in hte west not in Nigeria,the banker is an aspiring Biz man.civil servants are aspiring Biz men,I dont realy think its the salary structure that should be used in defining the petrol prices but market forces/inflation,dont you see how the pump prices of fuel go up and down on a daily basis in the UK/US

Like Jensimi said, here are other opinions that makes a lot of sense.

@Lastpage

Deregulation is not and will never be the answer:
Electricity Deregulation  => Costly, yet Epileptic Power, where you have it
Kerosine Deregulation => #300/Beer Bottle! Grin
Gas Deregulation => #650 per Cylinder
Cement Deregulation => #2,500 per bag
P[b]etrol Deregulation[/b] (Price hike over ten times in 10years!) => #195 per liter

Even a fool knows by now, that DEREGULATION IS JUST ABOUT MAKING MORE MONEY AVAILABLE FOR STEALING BY GOVT OFFICIALS!

It has NOTHING TO DO WIT AVAILABILITY OF THE PRODUCT/RESOURCE!


Yes, Fleece the Poor Citizens so we can have more money to steal! Wink Wink
Poor, docile citizens, l guess they deserve what they're getting; FOR BEING SO DOCILE!

The most shamefully-wicked part of the whole story is THE SAME LIE that our leaders RECYCLE to us EVERYTIME they need more money to STEAL: Increasing the Price would bring BETTER SERVICE!

I heard it under Obasanjo, as a Military Head of State!
I heard it under Ibrahim Babangida, for eight years!
I heard it under Obasanjo, "seven times in eight years" as a Civilian President!
I heard it again under Yar Ardua, though briefly in Power!
Now, l an hearing it again under "badluck" Goodluck Jonathan!

Yes, l have heard It ALL!
As the price of fuel was increased from 15K/Liter, => 23K/Liter => 78K/Liter => 1.25K/Liter => => =. #65/Liter!

In each case, its always the same excuse (are they not even smart enough to think of something different?): For Better service/availability!

But did they build more refineries to cater for AVAILABILITY? No!
Did they invest the increase in building Petro-Chemical Plants (Like Iran)? Again, No!
Did they build new Power stations over the years, Again, No!


Did they use the "increase" to enrich themselves and steal bigger sums of money? You bet, YES! Wink Huh

And did we (including myself) do anything? You bet, NO! Shocked Sad

Truly, as we lay our beds, so we are lying on it! Wink Lips sealed

Its always the same old story, COMPARING APPLES WITH ORANGES!
@KolaBaba

I dont know why people compare Nigeria with US and UK when it comes to the issue of petroleum deregulation. An average briton and american do not know when the fuel price goes up or down since their transportation system does not depend on petrol or deisel. Trains are there that is very cheap. Elecricity is stable, no headache of fuel for my "i better pass my neighbour". They use gas and elecricity for cooking. Manufacturing sector does not depend on fuel for power. But in Nigeria, all our economic life revolves round the fuel and any slight change in price of fuel in Nigeria will surely take a toll on every areas of the economy.
Pls leave theory you read inside book for your children at home, we all know the theory. Abi we sha go to school.
In UK and US, no matter the tuition fees, that one is not a problem, study loan is there for you but in Nigeria, even bursary award, government will not pay.
Government will give scholarship, the money will be given to the children of big men. When Obasanjo was giving out federal government scholarship, there was a guy that used to sell his blood to the hospital to pay the school fees, the guy applied, he was not given but his classmate who has a uncle in the federal ministry of education got the money and she used part of the money to buy rechearge card and the remaining for birthday.
So comparing Nigeria with US, UK and others, KO JO ARA WON RARA.king. Manufacturing sector does not depend on fuel for power. But in Nigeria, all our economic life revolves round the fuel and any slight change in price of fuel in Nigeria will surely take a toll on every areas of the economy.
Pls leave theory you read inside book for your children at home, we all know the theory. Abi we sha go to school.
In UK and US, no matter the tuition fees, that one is not a problem, study loan is there for you but in Nigeria, even bursary award, government will not pay.
Government will give scholarship, the money will be given to the children of big men. When Obasanjo was giving out federal government scholarship, there was a guy that used to sell his blood to the hospital to pay the school fees, the guy applied, he was not given but his classmate who has a uncle in the federal ministry of education got thjavascript:void(0);e money and she used part of the money to buy rechearge card and the remaining for birthday.
So comparing Nigeria with US, UK and others, KO JO ARA WON RARA.

Again, as we would see, there is no basis for comparison.

I think we should be honest when we do these comparisons and not compare "Apples and Oranges", lest we get lost in the middle confusion.

Let us take a basic yardstick: A Teacher in Nigeria and his counterpart in U.K.

I wish l could draw a "table" on NL so that l can draw immediate parallels between both but then we'll manage.

In Nigeria, he earns an average of #50,000:00  (or 208 GBP) (recent increase taken into consideration otherwise it was like 30K!). He pays tax at 21%, same average in the U.K (PAYE).
U.K counterpart earns on the average 500GBP ( #120,000:00).
This is the first indication of "Apples and Orange syndrome", when we compare the two!

His U.K counterpart, if married and the wife is not working, will be entitled to a whole bucket of "means-tested" benefits that could total over 500GBP in a month on the average (child benefit, early child care allowance, Back to school allowance, Job Seekers allowance, fuel allowance, e.t.c).
His Nigerian counterparts gets nada! Zilch!! that salary is what he has to share with his wife and children, no social safety net in anyway!

Now, if you total the "disposable income" of both families, you will get: Nigerian: #50,000 or 210 GBP.  British: about #250,000 or about 1,000 GBP

In Naira or Pounds, how can you compare both of them?

If both of them have 3children of both sexes, lets assume they live in a 3Bedroom house.
In Nigeria, that would cost you #500,000/year (or about 2,100 GBP).
In the U.K, it will cost about 600 x 12 = 7200GBP.

But the beauty of the U.K, when compared to Nigeria is that he can opt for a council house where he pays about 150GBP/month! Otherwise, he can file for "Housing Supplement" by which he contributes less that 10% or 60GBP to his house rent while the govt pays the rest!

The beauty of Nigeria, on the other hand is that the five of them in the family cannot even dare to dream of renting a 3-Bed house! Who dash monkey?
They would all be crowded in a Room and Parlor (doing fabulously for a teacher, by Naija standards! Grin ) which costs on average, #250,000 annually! He gets no housing subsidy or Council flat from anywhere!

Now, this same Nigerian teacher has to feed 3kids and wife from that same salary (#600,000 a year, minus house rent of 250K = #350,000!)
He has to pay school fees for 3kids while his counterparts children enjoy "Free Education", the quality of which would cost #500,000 for each child/year in Nigeria while his British counterparts children enjoy free education, the "quality" of which is comparable to those that costs #500,000 per year, per child, in Nigeria! (the likes of British American, Corona College, American Int'l School, Lekki)

The Nigerian Teacher has to buy a Generator (I better-pass my Landlord! Grin ), he has to keep fueling it almost 24/7 while his counterpart in the U.K enjoys uninterrupted power 24/7 and can therefore leverage on bulk-buying of foodstuffs in the home as it can be properly preserved!

Our Nigerian teacher must hop to the market every two days as he cannot preserve food in the house due to lack of stable electricity (cost of transport, lost man-hours spent on the road, rising cost of food, risk of commuting, e.t.c)

Anyone that has lived in U.K or Europe knows that food is the cheapest of all things you can buy (no wonder some of my Bros look like that "Obese Michelin Advert" after just 6months abroad! Huh ).
Our Nigerian counterpart will have to fork-out close to 50% of his income on buying food and foodstuffs for his family! Just go to Ketu and see the cost of Tomatoes, Rice, Gari, yam, e.t.c
My Dad once told me a story of how the "whites/ Brits" were surprised that Nigerians eat Bokotoo  and Ponmo (Cow-leg, expensive big-man's food), something they throw away in the U.K and Cow-skin that has no nutrition at all!! Such is life!!

I dont want to go on and on but l went this far just to show that comparing "costs/pricing" of commodities in Nigeria with U.K and therefore concluding we are better-off. is like comparing Apples with oranges, THERE IS NO BASIS TO DO SO!

Remember, Mainland U.K does not even produce Crude Oil while Nigeria does!
If cheaper pump-price of Petrol is the only thing we can show for been a Nigerian, then let it be!

I bet if Nigerian Political class (of Looters) were like U.K Politicians without any source of crude oil, Brits would be paying 20GBP per liter of fuel (so they can have spare money to loot), thats how wicked our leaders are!.

The problem is NOT UNDER-PRICING OF Petroleum Products!
The problem is unbridled corruption and looting of our national wealth by a few people in Govt.

Eradicate these and you will see that the govt can even afford to put every school-age child on "Back To Education" allowance!.
Ask the Europeans how they do it. Wink

Nuff said.

Lastpage

@ poster,billante or what do u call urself,when u want 2 compare or equate any situation,pls think deeply, petrol that sell above N100/per litre in US/UK is a function of (1) stable elecricity (2) per capital income is high (3)unemployment rate is lower (4) tansparency / sincerity of the leaders
if any of these is applicable 2 nigeria then d govt can sell petrol at even N195 AS proposed,imagine yr 2000 they wanted subsidy removed, but because of d hardship that wil follow the subsidy removal they resulted 2 gradual removal,but stil wth this methods,nothing has improve in d country such that it wil encourage d citizen 2 support the total removal,therefore removing the subsidy is as good as killing Nigerians

WARNING:

Nigerians, don't ever elect anyone raised abroad as your leader. Never! Never! Never!

Those raised abroad don't understand what you endure on a daily basis.

Don't be fooled even if they have 20 degrees.

In the UK:

Healthcare is free.

Education is free for your children in the UK

Transportation is free for school children

Housing is subsidized.

ETC.

I don't understand how those who grew up in the West, enjoyed and still enjoy all amenities therein would argue in favour of policies and measures that are anti-progress and ill-thought out.

SMH

In the UK, your life isn't necessarily dependent on petro. Train are there. Canals are there.

People in Nigeria have no options