It is believed that we Ndigbo come from different ancestries. Although I myself believe this assersion, there is nothing you unique about this happening; other ethnic groups(major and minority) also have the same story.  Assimilation and aculturation are major factors for the fattening of once ethnic group. However, if you cannot see your back to the point you are able to pin point what you were or came from,especially with documentation, you are stuck with what you are presently and what is in front of you;this is what you can speak about clearly.

We make come from different non-Igbo ancestries or claim to come from; however, now we speak a language, practice a culture, and are known as Igbo. For those who say we were different people who had a related laguage but were never united,where is the proof?

Questions to answer:

1. If the the people known as "Ndigbo" today never had a king which they all fell under were did the word "Eze" come from? It is a word that is definitely not new to us.

2. How is it that these "different and independent people" from the top to the bottom of todays "Igbo" land all practiced/practice the calling of "Kwenu" during gatherings?

3. Why do the people have the same societal structure and traditional govermental systems(titles included)?

There must me a centre/origin of the people who gave us our language and we had a name and i doubt it was "Igbo". Lets get real.


From my views, there various clans within the Igbo ethnicity may have come about from the fall of an old kingdom or empire. This could have happened hundreds or thousands of years ago. Our history definitely does not start at the recordings by Europeans. Many wars,treaties,etc. have come and passed ages ago even before the Europeans stepped foot on Africa.

What do you think?


[B]P.S. PLEASE DO NOT BRING ANY NRI OR JEWISH STUVS IN HERE![/b]

Chyz*:

[B]P.S. PLEASE DO NOT BRING ANY NRI OR JEWISH STUVS IN HERE![/b]

There is this ____ notion that Nri equal "the center of Igbo culture and society". If Nri cannot be brought into this discussion, then the case is closed. There is no center. If Nri is brought into this discussion, then we'll just end up repeating the same thing we did in that topic about Nri visiting the Igbo village in Virgina.

I come from a part of Igboland where natives believe we do not come from anywhere. Our present abode in Obowu, Isinweke and Nsu has been our natural habitat from the day of creation.

@chinenye, u don't believe in the Nri hegemony so I don't get how its not relevant if nri isn't talked of in this discussion. On top of that,since nri has nothing to do with ur clan then u should be able to answer the questions without mentioning Nri.

Chyz*:

@chinenye, u don't believe in the Nri hegemony so I don't get how its not relevant if nri isn't talked of in this discussion. On top of that,since nri has nothing to do with your clan then u should be able to answer the questions without mentioning Nri.

It was a disclaimer post. I discussed two possibilities based on your P.S. That's it.

ChinenyeN:

I'm not sure if you know this, but a number of communities didn't have Eze's until the British showed up.

A number of the communites still do not have kings.  That is besides the point. Where did the "eze" come from? Was it a word solely from a particular Igbo clan or is it a word that was created not too long ago? Are we saying that "eze" was never used in igbo naming,even in communities who now have no king, such as 'Akobueze, Ezeagu, or chibueze?

Kwenu isn't anything special. "Kwe" (agree) is a common verb in Igbo. I hear that even Edo use "kwe". That aside, the whole point of gatherings is to come to a consensus. "Kwe" means agree, it would only make sense to have "kwe nu" as a calling to consensus during the gatherings. "Kwe" isn't unique.

The Kwenu is a unique calling. Also, the way it is done [Che,che,  Kwenu] is unique. The extra before the kwenu is not need for gathering. It is something that must have been put together collectively as a culture and people. It would make no sense for a people who are "different" and had "nothing to do with each other/independent" to be doing the exact practice through the gatherings and in the same way. I know what kwe is. The meaning of the word is not the point. Edos also use "oma"(good) . There definitely a oneness that led to this "kwenu" thingy.

If I were you, I wouldn't go around making this assumption

Its not an assumption, it's fact. Of course there are variances but overall they are the same.

The different ancestries did not join and form whole new groups, but just added some variations. I think they say the Igbo originated between Nsukka and Okigwe axis.

Chyz*:

1. If the the people known as "Ndigbo" today never had a king which they all fell under were did the word "Eze" come from? It is a word that is definitely not new to us.

You don't need a total king to have a word for kings. The translation for 'eze' itself as king is even questionable.

Chyz*:
2. How is it that these "different and independent people" from the top to the bottom of todays "Igbo" land all practiced/practice the calling of "Kwenu" during gatherings?

I thought kwenu was more of a recent thing?

Chyz*:
3. Why do the people have the same societal structure and traditional govermental systems(titles included)?

Not really, but maybe that's because of outside influence, most of the Niger Igbo (Anioma) have a solo man as their leader while the rest of the Igbo do not. There are also 'royal families' which are hard to find (well, any before 1800) on the other side of the Niger.

Chyz*:
There must me a centre/origin of the people who gave us our language and we had a name and i doubt it was "Igbo". Lets get real.

Yeah, there's a centre, probably inhabited by early bushmen as described in Nri myth, but that's all mostly forgotten now.

Chyz*:
From my views, there various clans within the Igbo ethnicity may have come about from the fall of an old kingdom or empire. This could have happened hundreds or thousands of years ago. Our history definitely does not start at the recordings by Europeans. Many wars,treaties,etc. have come and passed ages ago even before the Europeans stepped foot on Africa.

What do you think?

Some 'clans' didn't exist before 1500, let alone 1000. The Igbo groups just migrated from a smaller homeland and absorbed some influences/developed some variations along the way. That's just what I think.

Chyz*:

[B]P.S. PLEASE DO NOT BRING ANY NRI OR JEWISH STUVS IN HERE![/b]

Then we can't talk about religion or 1/3 of Igboland.

How come it is only Igbo people who have this insatiable urge to forge an image of a time before time, when we all gathered around the same camp fire declaring our oneness, especially in the face of traditions which explicitly state otherwise?

People want to claim to talk 'facts', but yet will ask "where is the proof?" that we lived independently of each other or that we were not united before the British showed up. Honestly, I don't get it. Traditions are rather explicit. History is rather explicit, yet some people are swearing on their progenitors' graves that there is/was a 'center' which we all acknowledged.

Anyway, I don't know where the word 'eze' came from (though I have my presumptions), but one thing I do know though is that 'eze' as 'king' or 'ruler' or 'landlord' is a new thing, at least in my society/community.

"Kwenu" is a call to order, used in oration if someone wants insure that he/she has the floor and the attention of the audience. I cannot attest to the antiquity of "kwenu" but what I am positive about is that it is not at all popular with my grandparent's generation. I can't even recall anyone from that time period making active use of that call in this day. My father and uncles and aunts sometimes use it though, but not as a primary call.

As for societal structures, I don't know what your facts are, but we did not all have the same societal structure and institutions. Tell me, can you honestly sit here and blatantly say that "Ngwa and Nri had the same societal structure and institutions", without feeling as though they are lying to yourself? Truth is we cannot make such a comment.

Ndigbo are original peoples and not mixed. i dont get why people find it cool to be mixed. *disgusting

ChinenyeN:

People want to claim to talk 'facts', but yet will ask "where is the proof?" that we lived independently of each other or that we were not united before the British showed up. Honestly, I don't get it. Traditions are rather explicit. History is rather explicit, yet some people are swearing on their progenitors' graves that there is/was a 'center' which we all acknowledged.

Well the fact of the matter is that you know no more than the next man so who is wrong and who is right?

How come it is only Igbo people who have this insatiable urge to forge an image of a time before time, when we all gathered around the same camp fire declaring our oneness, especially in the face of traditions which explicitly state otherwise?

Igbos the only people? And which traditions states "explicitly" otherwise?

Anyway, I don't know where the word 'eze' came from (though I have my presumptions), but one thing I do know though is that 'eze' as 'king' or 'ruler' or 'landlord' is a new thing, at least in my society/community.

Any proof?  

"Kwenu" is a call to order, used in oration if someone wants insure that he/she has the floor and the attention of the audience. I cannot attest to the antiquity of "kwenu" but what I am positive about is that it is not at all popular with my grandparent's generation. I can't even recall anyone from that time period making active use of that call in this day. My father and uncles and aunts sometimes use it though, but not as a primary call.

i guess the other call must be "keleni/nu"?

As for societal structures, I don't know what your facts are, but we did not all have the same societal structure and institutions. Tell me, can you honestly sit here and blatantly say that "Ngwa and Nri had the same societal structure and institutions", without feeling as though they are lying to yourself? Truth is we cannot make such a comment.

Like i said, there are variations.

ezeagu:

I thought kwenu was more of a recent thing?

What makes you think that?

Not really, but maybe that's because of outside influence, most of the Niger Igbo (Anioma) have a solo man as their leader while the rest of the Igbo do not. There are also 'royal families' which are hard to find (well, any before 1800) on the other side of the Niger.

Lets take out "same" societal structure, because there are variances. As for Anioma, lets talk about the society before the benin invasion.

Yeah, there's a centre, probably inhabited by early bushmen as described in Nri myth, but that's all mostly forgotten now.

Some 'clans' didn't exist before 1500, let alone 1000. The Igbo groups just migrated from a smaller homeland and absorbed some influences/developed some variations along the way. That's just what I think.

Spot on.

Then we can't talk about religion or 1/3 of Igboland.

Was trying not to inflame the "independents".

Chyz*:

Well the fact of the matter is that you know no more than the next man so who is wrong and who is right?

I do not know more than the next guy about "Igbo", but I'm very familiar with my own people and our culture, society and traditions.  

Chyz*:

Igbos the only people? And which traditions states "explicitly" otherwise?

My goodness, do people here have short-term memory loss or something? Seems as if we are always rehashing the exact same thing every single time. We went through this in the Nri topic.

Chyz*:

Any proof?  

This is a joke right?

Chyz*:

i guess the other call must be "keleni/nu"?

Yea, that's another call, and it is more popular than "kwenu".

Chyz*:

Like i said, there are variations.

*shakes head*