Recently I have been observing a lot of predictions that everything is going to be web based
in the future and the OS, the desktop along with standalone apps will either die naturally or just fail to
be relevant. I think that is taking the excitement beyond reality

I think this whole web hype is caused by the advent of Ajax and other similar technologies.
Ajax is the application of existing technologies in a smart way which I agree has a lot of
avantages but that doesn't mean it solves all software development problems.

Similar things were said in the past when java applets first came out but ironically one of
the reasons Java failed to be mainstream is it's poor performance on the desktop.

What the web advocates always fail to remember is that those web apps almost always
depend on standalone apps to run e.g web server, web browser, database management
systems e.t.c and therefore cannot replace standalone applications.


Designing those web apps always need to be done on some desktop and requires standalone
apps e.g compilers,interpreters,photo editing software, web design software e.t.c
I've never came across any web based compiler or video/image editing software but I admit
some people may try doing it.


We know that google have some very cool web based office apps like spread sheets e.t.c
I am personally of the view that using it for any seious work is counter intuitive.
You don't expect me to keep my important documents on somebody else's server and I
don't want my work to be subject to availabilty of internet.

Another important requirement is bandwidth. Now some of us may argue that the web app
can run completely on the local system. If that is the case then I think the aim of
making it web based is already defeated.


Developing web apps are most often more difficult than developing standalone apps
especially when you have to create really intuitive GUIs or when parts of your
program have to be "statefull".A lot of Web developers complain that session
management is a pain in the butt.

Deployment: Now this is where most people believe that web based apps are of the
most advantage but I don't always agree. I agree that centralized deployment is
easy with web apps but compare deploying a locally running web app
and a standalone app. In a standalone app you must probably will only need to
run an installer but a web app will probably need a web server well configured,
a database management system and some other supporting tools.
The point here is that not every application is client/server that will benefit
from centralized deployement.


With web based apps your apps may look different with different bowsers making the
dream of portability really only a dream. I recently came to understand that some
people still do use text based browsers. How do we handle them?


If you use IE specific features or something non-standard then you are also losing
portability. Try visiting graphcard.com with a non IE browser and you'll see
what I mean.

Security: Can be handled but the risks are higher

It's very difficult to write elegant code with server-side scripting, javascript/VBScript and HTML
like you can write with a single programming language when developing a standalone app.

Webapps don't operate peripheral devices like your digital camera,scanner,thumbprint reader
and I don't think you can play an on-line game with a control pad.



The point is that web based apps have their specific role in the software eco-system but thinking that
they can completely replace conventional apps is just taking it too far beyond reality. The web
was primally design to display document and not to take in data. Data intake and processing are after toughts
in the overall design of the web and you therefore can not expect it to be without difficulties.

Web apps are in my opinion are best for businesses that sell services on the net or similar cases and is not
the answer to all software development problems.


I think the real solution is not in taking everything to the web but in blurring the line between
desktop apps and web apps when needed. Web based apps are beginning to look a lot like desktop apps while
desktop apps are getting more and more webified.

Now I believe many people will disagree with my last point but it seems many people on this forum are advocating
web apps at all cost because it's the only thing they can make,many think that developing standalone apps is
too complex. My advice to them is that they should learn to learn new technologies at least for the sake of
comparing it with what they already know. It goes a long way clearing some wrong assumptions we may have.

a job well done.

I believe IG is right. Both types of apps have there place. This is especially the case here in Nigeria where infrastructure like LAN (not to talk of Internet) are not always affordable to most computer users. Many have PCs in there homes with no internet connection. Many business centers, offices and schools also lack internet access. So what will these people do? Run their offices from a cyber cafe

I guess one could equally argue that cell phones are on the way out as there are places where pple have phones yet due to lack of light, can't charge which by implication means they can't use it.

The internet is it. Now, the extent of penetration is another thing. We can no longer afford to say for instance, "Well, nigeria is only 47 years old and America wasn't as advanced when it was the same age". Europe, for instance, hv a head-start on the US in terms of telecom because they dumped the land lines and went wireless long b4 the americans decided to jump in.

I remember my first trip home to Nigeria in 2000, after 7 years away. You had to stand at a certain location and in a certain position (literally) to receive cell phone calls at Uyo. Internet? You had to pay N500 for a yahoo account and you couldn't even use a computer - the attendant had a box outside his office and you would weed through the paper there to find a reply to your mail. Internet browsing? I remember paying N500 an hour and I could literally travel from Calabar to Uyo and have the page still loading. Now, some people are browsing from their homes and also doing so via wireless from their cars.

Was the above an excuse for saying "the internet in Nigeria is on its way out"? I don't think so. It may take a while, but we are getting there. Besides, we have no choice. All we need is the Foreign Direct Investment. As our government gets more stable, more and more companies will invest. As long as the govt doesn't stick its nose where the free markets should reign supreme, things will only get better.

As always, my 2 cents

my2cents:

I guess one could equally argue that cell phones are on the way out as there are places where people have phones yet due to lack of light, can't charge which by implication means they can't use it.

The internet is it. Now, the extent of penetration is another thing. We can no longer afford to say for instance, "Well, nigeria is only 47 years old and America wasn't as advanced when it was the same age". Europe, for instance, hv a head-start on the US in terms of telecom because they dumped the land lines and went wireless long before the americans decided to jump in.

@my2cents I see your point, but a cell phone doesn't have to be connected to the mains for it to work. I guess that's why we find them relatively efficient
despite our poor power supply system. You connect it only for it to charge so that you can make use of it later. I guess this is analogous to a standalone software that can connect to the web to perform a certain function e.g updating an anti-virus.

My whole point is that we should apply technology to solve our problems and not simply because it's the vogue. Please don't forget that internet access is
only one of the constraints I mention but there are many other points I raised which apply with or without internet availability. Don't forget that web apps can run on a local network or even a local machine.

UPDATE I discovered a web based image editing system here : http://snipshot.com

yh! I see ur Points

IG,

but the cell phones still need towers for routing their calls and we are still experiencing cases where you place 2 phones side-by-side and call one from the other, yet the phone call doesn't go through, right?

Anyways, in the end, the internet and its web-based software isn't going anywhere. Will it totally replace desktop apps, not at all, not even in the states. For the same reason there will never be a paperless office. There are things which, for legal reasons, need to be on paper.

I personally see both types of apps complementing each other. Take the snipshot site you just sent out. Granted it can't do much, I at least was able to get done what I would have had to spend $600 on photoshop for (yeah, I know there are those who would burn me a copy of photoshop, but I am trying to be honest here ).

IG, this mail of yours is kinda long. I will contribute to it next week. After I have set up a panel to review the contents and make recommendations. Of course, there will be need to raise a white paper on it.

Na the normal bureaucratic nonsense for Naija be dat.

Good write up. I agree with you to an extent

i think it is a nice write up and i agree with you no matter what you do i don't think web app can over take the stand alone app

IG no no anything, e bi like say nah software d guy/girl dey write, you know what you see f you check around this post you will find a similar post by me Web Based versus Software standalone and also seun pointed out an article on that on the web written by one US guy like that, according to that White guy, the guy is tired of Software Standalone, you see software works pretty well every one knows that, Software is a long thing investment, while Web bases thing is something shap shap and you get your money ! quick . why do we have Web Based accounting Software which runs on Internet and a local server ! now you see with your webserver, it can be conneted to use your intranet, whereby you oga wey dey the 11th floor can access your portal say for instance, A Staff Database built using PHP/MYSQL with just a link and he/she logs in.

Okay now i have POINT OF SALE web based software i developed which can run from your intranet. it take in daily sales every thing about sales in your company, no need to depend on internet access thing, when we talk about Web based taking over standalone thing, we meant a Web Based Software which runs on your local server 24/7 unlike software if you computer crashes eh, thats means you are a dead rat, unlike Web Based thing you have a soft copy of the software, aslo you can backup database everyday, men try it on your Standalone and see the day the Hard-Disk will fail, then the entire stuff is dead, if you have Web Based Software, you can easily copy back and load back your Web Server, since you do the Backup of your database, men i tell you if you realy know what you are doing, you can wipe out Standalone software from your company,

So what are you saying now, not as if i don't do Standalone thing with my VB, but Web Based Software is thy bomb, we have alotta them out there. in india there is this Filling Station Web Based Software note that this runs on your Local Server, using PHP/MYSQL see if you know this tool well it woun't take you ages to develop one and you can even sell it off for close to 2million naira. if someone can afford a website a friend of mine did for N1.2million, how much more the Web Based Software. unlike Satndalone thing men if you don't take time it might take you some months to finish up the whole thing especially if you are giving a time to deliver or else you will loose it,

So na wetin u can dey yarn me. don't know why people woun't admit. Yah you might say everybody design website or develops appl, well if you know what i mean we have designers and we have designers! so also we have Web Programmers and we have Programmers ! the Diff. between Ordinary and extra-ordinary is the Extra ! abeg make una clap for me jare

That graphcard site you showed eh let me tell you if you want your stuff to work with all the browser you want, you can do it so don't take that as an excuse unlike Software it has some kind of requirement to run on your PC

Take good look at a billing software Web based Billing Software, which helps you take in orders and process the the stuff and dumb money into your account. unlike standalone, so you want me to call the office and tell you that i want to place an order, next thing you starting asking me question puching them on your Standalone software " what are you doing" entrying my data manually, when the Web Based billing Software can take your order and process it within 3mins.

IG, u raised a very good topic, recently I had an argument with someone on this same topic, but after a while I was able to prove to the guy that Standalone app and web app are both important considering what the achievement is based on.U dont expect every office to be connected to the internet for them to run their normal day to day transactions.

Moreover,it takes less patience to be a web guru than a standalone guru.

Standalone programmers require more skills and logic than web programmers to design an application.

Most guys are in a hurry to make money and u do that better as a web programmer just like smartsoft pointed out.

humm this guy yab me small anyways as i said, standalone thing is a long time thing you have to wait to get peeps to buy your software, when you can actaully do that using Web Based Software and get your money ! remember u don't put money first in business esle you woun't succed. you put customers first and customers bring customers and another brings another. then you get your money or you can even do same application for many coys on web based and just customised shap shap.

IG no no anything, e bi like say nah software d guy/girl dey write

@smartsoft, actually am a guy and thanx a lot for letting me know that I don't know anything.

why do we have Web Based accounting Software which runs on Internet and a local server ! now you see with your webserver, it can be conneted to use your intranet, whereby you oga wey dey the 11th floor can access your portal say for instance, A Staff Database built using PHP/MYSQL with just a link and he/she logs in.

Now you are beginning to answer yourself. PHP and MySQL, are they web based ?.
I assume that you know that it's possible to create network aware standalone apps. If you don't know then your browser is an example.

when we talk about Web based taking over standalone thing, we meant a Web Based Software which runs on your local server 24/7 unlike software if you computer crashes eh, thats means you are a dead rat, unlike Web Based thing you have a soft copy of the software, aslo you can backup database everyday, men try it on your Standalone and see the day the Hard-Disk will fail, then the entire stuff is dead, if you have Web Based Software, you can easily copy back and load back your Web Server, since you do the Backup of your database, men i tell you if you realy know what you are doing, you can wipe out Standalone software from your company

Now am honestly getting confused here, please pardon my ignoance but I you implying that web based apps don't keep there databases on a hard disk ? If that's the case then educate me more on this.
Please I also don't know what you mean by a soft copy of your software. Can one also have a hard copy of his software.
But you should know that you can also backup your database in a standalone app. By the way what happens if the system hosting your web server and the database crashes. Honestly I find your arguments confusing

So na wetin u can dey yarn me. don't know why people woun't admit. Yah you might say everybody design website or develops appl, well if you know what i mean we have designers and we have designers! so also we have Web Programmers and we have Programmers ! the Diff. between Ordinary and extra-ordinary is the Extra ! abeg make una clap for me jare

Good rap, so which one are you.

That graphcard site you showed eh let me tell you if you want your stuff to work with all the browser you want, you can do it so don't take that as an excuse unlike Software it has some kind of requirement to run on your PC

In standalone software, you develop for a particula platform and you'll be sure it will run. But in web apps you are not sure wether it will behave the same way in all browsers.

Take good look at a billing software Web based Billing Software, which helps you take in orders and process the the stuff and dumb money into your account. unlike standalone, so you want me to call the office and tell you that i want to place an order, next thing you starting asking me question puching them on your Standalone software " what are you doing" entrying my data manually, when the Web Based billing Software can take your order and process it within 3mins.

Now that's a good example of where web based apps fit well. If you read though my post you will see that I am never against web based apps but I'm actually against the idea of one size fits all.
Actually I didn't want to start an argument but this discussion is already beginning to sound like one.


IF THE ONLY TOOL YOU HAVE IS A HAMMER THEN EVERY PROBLEM BEGINS TO LOOK LIKE A NAIL

This is why technical geeks will always remain at the lower part of the triangle,
All this technical jargons don't matter. The important thing is that a business problem is to be solved. Whether it is web-based or standalone or whatever, the thing is that it should solve a business problem.
Ask the Systems Analyst!!!

@ Acting IG

pardon me but I like to be corrected if u guys no argue this same thread before where smartsoft was comparing Standalone and webase app.
or have u guys closed that thread,

anyway my own cent on this is simply on a personal note: for mission critical app i use 99.9% standalone, I don't feel safe with this online idea, i'm seeing a future where online app will become another YM where master booters take d floor,
another case is our bandwidth issue that alone will take another topic , because I don't feel the real internet access, imagine me doing 100Mb/sec http://www.ubergizmo.com/2004/08/news-100mbsec-internet-access.html
it will save me 99.9% of wasted work time.

IG i agree with u @65%, but say we consider another 20yrs , this issue will bi like that case when men thought we'll never fly,

@ the pros here Can't we have a web base VOICE FORUM with archives(the user will have to use mic and not the keyboards) recording could bi in ogg formats or smaller bytes,

@IG na 9ja u dey, make we chat.

BR

ruemu:

@ Acting IG

pardon me but I like to be corrected if u guys no argue this same thread before where smartsoft was comparing Standalone and webase app.
or have u guys closed that thread,

anyway my own cent on this is simply on a personal note: for mission critical app i use 99.9% standalone, I don't feel safe with this online idea, i'm seeing a future where online app will become another YM where master booters take d floor,
another case is our bandwidth issue that alone will take another topic , because I don't feel the real internet access, imagine me doing 100Mb/sec http://www.ubergizmo.com/2004/08/news-100mbsec-internet-access.htmlit will save me 99.9% of wasted work time.

IG i agree with u @65%, but say we consider another 20yrs , this issue will bi like that case when men thought we'll never fly,

@ the pros here Can't we have a web base VOICE FORUM with archives(the user will have to use mic and not the keyboards) recording could bi in ogg formats or smaller bytes,

@IG na Nigeria u dey, make we chat.

BR

have you forgotten that will have VIDEO AND WEB CONFFRENCING SOFTWARE that is a web based software oo if you know now make u sabi
again we have Voice Web Solutions: Voice Web Studio
and Vocalocity Voice Gateway 2.0
Also we have Web Based VoIP Billing, VoIP Routing, and VoIP Management Software
guy make research well broda

oIo:

This is why technical geeks will always remain at the lower part of the triangle,
All this technical jargons don't matter. The important thing is that a business problem is to be solved. Whether it is web-based or standalone or whatever, the thing is that it should solve a business problem.
Ask the Systems Analyst!!!

I like what he just said, be it standalone or whatever you call it , the important thing is that a business problem is to be solved. the thing is that it should solve a business problem

This kinda issue as been treated on this forum a long time ago, i started the tread and alotta peeps really commend on it. i can't talk much again so make we no argue again ! Web Based is the way 4ward agree or not thats your own. no hard knocks broda. As my broda will always say, thats my 2cent

oIo:

This is why technical geeks will always remain at the lower part of the triangle,
All this technical jargons don't matter. The important thing is that a business problem is to be solved. Whether it is web-based or standalone or whatever, the thing is that it should solve a business problem.
Ask the Systems Analyst!!!

I actually Agree with you

ROMBL

KOboJunkie

hey guys

the main issue here isn't about web apps replacing windows app, it's just that web apps now have a greater percentage of hobbysts and newbies in the art of programming and its' sorts.

there's definitely no way that web apps will replace desktop's but the major differences are that being that the turn-around time involved in designing, developing and deploying web apps are far much lesser than desktop apps, we shud also check the flexibility, extensibility and portability of web apps over latter.

i've been a desktop programmer for the past 4yrs and just started working on web-based apps, i can tell you that life in programmer hasn't been easier and merrier be it in the .NET or on the java EE platforms respectively.
but that doesn't mean that am totally leaving desktop apps - No way! men

like the other user said, it's not how the application is developed that matters, the main issue here is that the job is done and that it does what it's supposed to do without any hitches.

Yah good you guys are now saying something

IT people need to perfect the art of requirements gathering according to user specifications because whether you use web based applications or client/server or whatever and the end user is still not satisfied, all the grammar you're speaking wouldnt matter!!! The profession of IT is changing as a business enabler ie the business drives IT and not vice versa! Thats my two cents,

2cent in deed are you a web developer or software developer ?

There is never a right way or a right answer. You must always focus on providing the best answer for the situation. I work in a place where my company pays millions just to access instances of WEB-BASED SAP applications. So dont tell us they are useless. its simply an admission of poor marketing skills/salesmanship. Really good web-based software will be snapped up by companies with the cash to pay for bandwidth.

Do you want to be the guy 24 hours on the road travelling from each 1st Bank branch to the other installing applications on their desktops or would you rather deploy it on their server, put a link on the home page and send them an Outlook Mail to log-in and enjoy.

As they say in my company, use the right-sized approach for the situation. For single-customer situations where they cant afford a network, if you cannot come up with a better solution, use the desktop mode. For highly sensitive stuff involving files that you would rather monitor(instead of trusting them to the net), use a desktop app.

For all else, use the web.

Bone up your marketing skills sir and stop moaning.

Well interesting topic.
one thing is certain,the web app cannot face out standalone app dispate the popularity.

Issues of interest. Thank you for branded indicate share

Guys, its interesting to note that in the future web based softwares will be replaced by standalone/desktops ones.,so need for argument but brace the future.

Webapps don't operate peripheral devices like your digital camera,scanner,thumbprint reader
and I don't think you can play an on-line game with a control pad.

I don't know if you mean using HTML/javascript, because am pretty sure that with Silverlight 4 you can access your web camera, printer and play game online with game controller (while running in full trust). Even the coming HTML 5 will let you do some of those as well.

I really agree with most of your points. I started out with Visual Basic, then ASP.NET/C#, right now am learning c++ to go right back  to desktop application to merge the two together. Yes i know i can do desktop application with c# (and I've been doing that), I want to try out the embedded market, can't just stand the next person pricing me N50k or so for web app/website and telling me how other people are ready to collect less.

another reason most people here are so biased towards desktop programming is that they are mostly drag-and-drop programmers and not good enough to handle web scripting.

A programming language is only as powerful as the imagination of the programmer. So it doesn't matter the programming language you use or weather it is web or desktop design, the important thing is the function of what you design.

Web-based application is definitely not a choice in most developing countries, where rampant electricity and exorbitant bandwidth cost is a rule rather than the exception.

Web-based or stand-alone software, each has its pros and cons and it all depends on personal preferences.
Personally, if web-based means internet (and not intranet), then I will not trust web-based application for storing sensitive data, even if the process goes through SSL. Too many security holes that can be easily exploited. And you don't even need to be a programming guru to do this. That is why standalone applications still sell far more than their web-based versions, even in the developed countries.

Recently, following the trend, I decided to develop web-based version of one of my popular software. Half-way, I abandoned the project due to extremely poor signup figures.
Contrary to expectation, the presence of web-based version, hosted as a service, has only fueled increase in sales of standalone version of the software!
I was astounded, since my software sells mostly in US, Canada and EU - in the so-called developed world.

Of course, the software market is ever changing and the situation may be different in the nearest future. Meanwhile I believe in figures, not emotions.

Joseph Ogunbiyi,
author and publisher,
http://www.josytal.com - Productivity Software for Small and Medium Businesses