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Nairaland Forum / Entertainment / Sports / European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 (11216411 Views)
Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Pride Of London / Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe / Manchester United Fan thread: Forever Reds (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by hensben(m): 9:38pm On Feb 25, 2017 |
lordfalcao:Again if this people understand football as they claim Alonso is doing a fine job in that LWB. Although, he's not a.cole, evra or Carlos but very intelligent at reading the game, his aerial capability is top notch. |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by lordfalcao(m): 10:17pm On Feb 25, 2017 |
hensben:As far it is Alonso, they won't see it. |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by CONTEDDICTED: 10:38pm On Feb 25, 2017 |
Ibime: I would have Copied and pasted this story to the gods,but they don't deserve to be bored on a weekend 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by CONTEDDICTED: 10:41pm On Feb 25, 2017 |
dyabman:Sweet assist Are we talking about a 5 yard pass? |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by CONTEDDICTED: 10:42pm On Feb 25, 2017 |
hensben:He excluded City, Arsenal and Liverpool |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by hensben(m): 11:20pm On Feb 25, 2017 |
CONTEDDICTED:Even if, is that enough to term matic useless huh. Let's be reasonable please. |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by hensben(m): 11:22pm On Feb 25, 2017 |
CONTEDDICTED:what did fab give Pedro to score in today's match that you guys are callling matic head for. |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by CONTEDDICTED: 11:23pm On Feb 25, 2017 |
hensben:OK let's be reasonable You might have point so I wanna hear it What do you think Matic brings to the team that we can't do without |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by CONTEDDICTED: 11:24pm On Feb 25, 2017 |
hensben:If it's about assists. ..I don't wanna go there, You don't wanna go there (in Chris Brown's voice) |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by hensben(m): 11:36pm On Feb 25, 2017 |
CONTEDDICTED:physical presence, aerial duels, ticking of the ball(though he lacks foresight/vision while doing this and I understand, he started as a DM or rather, established himself as a DM unlike fab). This is epl and conte need all this qualities to complement Kante. Aside vision and goal instinct no other thing fab does better than matic and the coach is aware of this. Fab can't consistently play in a two man midfield and again, the coach is aware of this, with him we won't have been were we are now, I can bet my last dine on this. Although, footballing wise, fab>matic but the team balancing comes first according to the coach selection, tactics and philosophy 4 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by hensben(m): 11:40pm On Feb 25, 2017 |
CONTEDDICTED:I know that's were you drew your argument from; goals and assist but football is not all about goal and assist but tactics and philosophy for the betterment of the team. Higuain was/is a better striker than Benzemna but guess who was chased out? And why was it so? |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by CONTEDDICTED: 11:55pm On Feb 25, 2017 |
hensben:Aerial duels? How many has he won this season? Tackles? Interception?? Whatever you think he does, there must be a stat for it somewhere. ... Let's measure it quantitatively |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by hensben(m): 11:56pm On Feb 25, 2017 |
CONTEDDICTED:Now I'm not a fan of stat, I watch our games and know what I am saying. It's not about how many so far he's doing his job required of him by the coach. |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by CONTEDDICTED: 11:59pm On Feb 25, 2017 |
hensben:Whatever you see, there is a stat for it.. .You just have to look closing Stats are facts |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by hensben(m): 12:05am On Feb 26, 2017 |
CONTEDDICTED:stats is deceiving and don't tell it all. I'll rather watch the game and so far, matic has been doing a good job required from the coach. Mind you I am not comparing matic and fab but just correcting a notion that matic is useless to the team m. It's wrong to term him useless. Same reason some person think iniesta is carry along. |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by lordfalcao(m): 6:49am On Feb 26, 2017 |
CONTEDDICTED:Nemanja Matics this season in the premier league..
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Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by lordfalcao(m): 6:53am On Feb 26, 2017 |
hensben:Stats doesn't tell all in football game.. I don't know when the duty of a DM is to throw pass instead of bringing balance to the team.. This is N'golo and Matic in the premier league this season. No need adding Fabregas cause he is very poor there.. 1: Matic 2 : N'golo
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Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Havilah93(m): 8:26am On Feb 26, 2017 |
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Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by lalaboi(m): 8:32am On Feb 26, 2017 |
hensben: Before i start. . Fabregas was outstanding today, no doubt Just came online and to see the expected deliberately blind Hijo de putas running their mouth. MAn.. We were on our way to drawing that game until Matic came on doing basically what Fabregas does when he comes on. His first contribution was to create a chance on the left side for Kante to [i]buude [/i]well over the bar. 2 contribution was collecting the loose ball and starting the move that killed off the game (3goal) Now, lets play the deliberately blind game here. . Fabregas didnt exactly play Pedro thorugh on goal did he? Now replace pedro with willian in that 2nd goal and tell me if we have a 2nd goal. That goal was made possible the brilliance of Pedro. Matic does unlucky assist they say but tell me exactly what special thing fabregas did in this case to deserve this orgasm over an assist. You want to be blinf to Matic's contribution i will be blind over this one too. Games Fabregas has started and shone with goals and assist. . . Sunderland, Bournemouth, Leicester, Swansea, Hull. . Not exactly the top bunch of teams are they? 8 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by lordfalcao(m): 8:56am On Feb 26, 2017 |
.if that Chinese club can pay 150 million for Costa.. I will personally book Mass in the church for the deal to happen. 1 Like |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Ibime(m): 10:56am On Feb 26, 2017 |
lalaboi: Don't get drawn into assists debate. Nobody can compete with Fabregas in that. This is not about creativity. This is about Fabregas' physical deficiency which doesn't consistently guarantee results over the full season like Matic has been doing. I like how Conte is doing it by saving Fabregas for the games against soft midfields where he won't be overrun. Next match against tough midfield, Matic will start. That's how you manage a squad to their full potential. 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by donjazet(m): 11:14am On Feb 26, 2017 |
It's as simple as this, fabregas is definitely much more creative than matic, he has great vision in that midfield, he has an eye for all types of passes, especially the defense splitting passes that can change a game in a twinkle of an eye if the attackers are prolific and maximize the chances he's created, he has good incomparable vision on the pitch, it is almost impossible to dispossess fabregas once he's with the ball, he would turn at 360 degrees, look up for a pass, if no one has made a run towards the box, he then gives the short pass and enters space to receive the ball back. In short words, he simply dominates the midfield in the way very few can. As for his weaknesses, he simply suffers the same thing that midfielders in their prime, like Xavi, Xabi Alonso, Pirlo, Carrick, Gerrard etc all suffer: mistimed tackles, lack of energy and athleticism, closing down opponents, in short words, the defensive aspects of midfield duties. And that is why most of these guys were paired with very energetic midfielders who had horse power work rates to complement them and shoulder part of the defensive responsibility, players like Henderson, Vidal, Herrera etc these hardworking players cover these perceived deficiencies. Since we use a 2 man midfield, it would be very logical to start fabregas against the smaller teams who we know just come to camp in their box, as fabregas would have a field day throwing those defense splitting passes which would be key to unlocking the defense. Against the smaller , there would be nothing like midfield battle because the midfielders become secondary defenders camped fully in their half and our midfielders wouldn't need to run the length of the pitch except on very very few occasions when they break away on counter. However against the big teams, it would be much better to use matic, as we would need his energy, ball recovery techniques and Ariel ability much more or we could tweak our formation to a 352 to accommodate all 3 midfielders and sacrifice one of our attackers since we tend to be overrun in the midfield against the big teams. One thing is for sure, with fabregas in the team, the amount of chances created from the midfield is much more astronomical than when he isn't and that merit definitely surpasses whatever demerits anyone might have against his inclusion into the squad. 4 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Nihilist: 11:47am On Feb 26, 2017 |
lalaboi: The real blind hijo de puta is you here bro, because you've conveniently forgotten that we were not only ahead until the 45th minute due to a *drum roll please* Fabregas goal, we were ahead Comfortably. These were the last two entries BBC posted in their match commentary prior to the Swansea goal. Great save from Fabianski. Cesc Fabregas is close to his second goal of the afternoon with a fierce strike but is denied by the diving Swansea keeper, who palms the ball away with one hand. Chelsea are absolutely dominating this. And Chelsea remain firmly on top against Swansea. They haven't found a second bit of cutting edge in the box yet, though. The ball is swung in to the box for Victor Moses, but he is denied by a diving tackle from Alfie Mawson. But it wouldn't have counted even if he had found the net. The flag is up. In both cases, the BBC commentary stresses that the game was being bossed. When you try to play the 'IF' game by claiming IF Matic hadn't come on blah blah, only a blind fool will fail to consider that IF the defenders hadn't gone to sleep at a simple set piece, then we would STILL be ahead by a Fabregas goal in a game where we were very comfortably on top. The debate between Fabregas and Matic has to do with efficency and opportunity cost. Does Matic's perceived physicality and defensive qualities outweigh the lack of offensive output which Fabregas offers? The answer is a resounding NO - Not only is Matic impotent offensively, but the so called defensive abilities are not even apparent Liverpool (no clean sheet home and away), Arsenal (no clean sheet home and away), Spurs (No clean sheet), City(No clean sheet) The cleansheets have come against mostly the same small teams you claim Fabregas can only shine against - Hull, Stoke, West Brom, Bournemouth, Crystal Palace and so on....Most of whom have been in the relegation zone at some point this season. So it's pretty clear that barring the Manyoo game Matic can really only offer 'defensive resilience' against the so called small teams that you said Fabregas only scores and assists against. So what is the real advantage of Matic then? I think you need to shut up with the 'Blind yarns' when it's pretty clear that you need yeast in your life B. 2 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Nihilist: 11:54am On Feb 26, 2017 |
donjazet: This is a myth. List the big games we've played this season and highlight Matic's defensive effectiveness in those games. I've been saying all season that there is a difference between what Matic is supposed to do, and what he actually does on the pitch. That's why in all my arguments with Ibime, I've asked specifically what he does and not he is supposed to do. When you see a quant refusing to apply numbers to Matic's defensive output instead taking a qualitative approach, then you know there is an actual problem. |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Ibime(m): 11:59am On Feb 26, 2017 |
Nihilist: Arsenal home, Everton home, Southampton away, Spurs home, Manure home, Liverpool away. All top defensive performances. I only apply quants to 4 metrics - GS, ASS, PassesPerGame and Kmpergame. It would be disrespectful to my profession to lend any weight to analysing 2.3 and 1.7 tackles per game. |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by donjazet(m): 12:04pm On Feb 26, 2017 |
Nihilist: I'll definitely get back to this later. I believe you are so wrong on many levels. |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Nihilist: 12:09pm On Feb 26, 2017 |
Ibime: Oh please. Arsenal, Liverpool from a defensive standpoint cannot be held as a defensive success because we were breached. Southampton are the joint 5th lowest scorers in the league so I don't see how that is a 'big game' when there is obviously no real offensive threat from them. I won't even dignify your Spurs listing
Yes, and NOT one of those 4 metrics is related to defensive output. Not 1. So like I said, when a quant who has been leading the eunuch campaign based on numbers, has to resort to a qualitative approach to defend Matic, then there is a problem. |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by FBS: 12:15pm On Feb 26, 2017 |
Football matters aside, if Hacksaw ridge no win best picture for Oscars tonight, na fight be that o. And yes, a good win yesterday. We like it. |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Ibime(m): 12:28pm On Feb 26, 2017 |
Nihilist: When did we concede against Arsenal and how. 87th minute cross from right wing after Moses had been taken off for Fabregas. Game is already won. Top defensive performance. How did we get breached against Pool. Corner kick. Top defensive performance. Matic has been putting in top defensive performances whether you like it or not. Nihilist: The day you show me one tackle stat that made Claude Makelele a good DM is the day I will start taking 1.7 tackles per game stats seriously. No quant worth his salt would place any value on such nonsense that doesn't even pass basic muster of having a large enough sample size for analysis. Control of space is the only key to defensive solidity, no of tackles is just a style of play. No of tackles is no indication of defensive solidity and defensive solidity cannot be caused by having high no of tackles. If not Aston Villa would not be relegated last season with the worst defensive record despite Gueyes record number of tackles. In stats this is called false casuality. The greatest defensive team of all time in EPL is Chelsea in 2005 with 13 goals conceded, yet they made the least number of tackles. I will not talk about such nonsense again cos I'm sick of repeating myself. Such stuff is for statistical neophytes to gorge over. I will not disrespect myself to that level. 4 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Nihilist: 12:48pm On Feb 26, 2017 |
Ibime: No of tackles or interceptions only came into the discussion in a comparison between Matic and Kante to show how Kante was the aggressive destroyer in midfield. With Kante so effective in his work, the need for Matic is practically redundant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMBuHzid4MY?t=102 Conte literally said in his post match interview yesterday that playing Fabregas is a balance between the added quality he gives, and the amount lost in Matic's height. Note that Conte's emphasis was on Matic's physical attributes rather than his defensive attributes. This is the clearest indication that Matic is only making the team based on what he is supposed to offer, NOT because of his defensive attributes anything, because this season he hasn't offered a lot in terms of defence. This is also a clear counter to them Nateevs who believe that Conte has space in his formation for small technical creators like Fabregas and Veratti. Like I said a few weeks ago, if we sign Veratti today, Conte will still bench him for Matic and not because of any defensive quality bs. 2 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Ibime(m): 1:30pm On Feb 26, 2017 |
Nihilist: Nope, he is just highlighting one aspect. He has spoken on the other aspects many times. If I tell you Lampard brings more goals to a team than Iniesta, that does not mean that is the only thing unless I use the word ONLY. He also brings more assists for example. 2 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Nihilist: 1:52pm On Feb 26, 2017 |
Ibime: There's a reason I posted the interview clip directly. Conte goes on to say that both are very good players BUT: Conte defines his conundrum in very specific terms. He defines Fabregas's addition to the team in terms of quality He defines Matic's addition to the team in terms of height. His words not mine. Of course like you said , Matic as a player cannot be be defined just by his height, he also is a very good defensive midfielder. The issue here is that the first thing that comes to Conte's mind in a conference where he's asked to compare both players is Matic's height. That says a lot especially when the first thing that come's to Conte's mind describing Fabregas is his quality. That's really it. I like that it's gotten to the point where we're now achieving some sort of middle-ground here sha. There's been a subtle shift from Fabregas can't play 343 and should be subbed in during an in game switch to 352, to Fab can play the less challenging team while Matic beefs up against teams when we need to be defensive. 1 Like |
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