m_nwankwo:
I draw from the Grail Message.

m_nwankwo:

@Kobojunkie,
Thanks. You made a fair point and those who want to use the bible to buttress the concept of reincarnation can go ahead. I clearly defined what I mean by reincarnation. It is impossible for a human being to reincarnate as a vegetable, elephant, donkey, minerals etc. A human being can only reincarnate in another human body. I donot draw my knowlege from oriental teachings including the budhist religion. I draw from the Grail Message.

justcool:

@ Kobojunkie and Lafile

I have answered you question. You keep going round and round. I showed you an account in the Bible that suggested reincarnation-- "Some say you are Elijah, some say you are John the baptise or one of the prophets."

I also explained that the fact that reincarnation is not elaborated in the Bible dose not mean that it's false.
Read my second post on this thread.

lafile agreed with me that the Christian Gnostics believe in reincarnation. And now Kobojunkie turned around and said that reincarnation is an Eastern ideology.

Even a child know that there were Christians Gnostics. Indeed they were one of the earliest branches of Christianity just like the Ethiopian Orthodox church. Most of todays christains derived their religion from Roman catholic church. Although some of them ignorantly consider catholics non-Christians. Saying that the Gnostics were not Christians is like saying that the catholics are not Christians.
Please tell what makes one a Christian?
Please checkout the website
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen06.html

@ m_nwankwo
Thanks for your nicely written explanation. The Truth speaks for It's self.

Kobojunkie:

I am glad that you are at least honest that not all the claims in the book are of the christian faith. I do know that the grail message combines a bit of buddhism with other beliefs in it's message. I have researched it a bit but ok.

The Grail Movement refers to an organization originating in Germany around the late 1940s inspired by the work of Abd-ru-shin, principally .

Abd-ru-shin (1875-1941), the main inspiration behind these associations, never founded any such organisation in his lifetime. Nor was he ever a member of similar organisations. The Grail Movement is therefore a brainchild of various readers of the Grail Message, perhaps to promote awareness about the Grail Message itself.

The Grail Movement has been described by some of being either a new religious movement or a cult. Members are mostly located in Western Europe (mostly Germany and France) but also in Quebec, Canada and in some West African countries such as Nigeria and Cote d'ivoire.

The world view of members of the Grail Movement is based mainly on the work In the Light of Truth: written by Oskar Ernst Bernhardt published under the name Abd-ru-shin which members consider more important then the Christian bible. The original teachings of Jesus Christ, however, form a central theme throughout the Grail Message.

Worldwide, there are about 20,000 members of Grail Movements. A declaration of the personal commitment to adhere to the principles of the Grail Message can be made by a request for the “Sealing”; a Grail Act (ceremony) that takes place during one of the three annual Festivals. This, however, is a personal decision on the part of the individual and leads neither to commitment to an organisation nor to links with other adherents. Anthem
"Das Lied der Deutschen" (third stanza)
also called "Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit"

Kobojunkie:

You never answered my question please. No need repeating exactly the same thing you already did. And please read the posts to be sure you have the right statements cause I do not remember commenting on your post about the Gnostics. and Yes, I stand on the fact that Reincarnation is attributed to Buddhism. Check the history on it.

About the verse, the verse, like what I pointed to earlier only speaks of the belief of some but has nothing to do with Christianity itself. If you have you be haughty about it then there is no need for you to even bother. M_nwankwo is at least confident enough to answer questions without feeling he needs to jump to defense mode. sheesh!!

Gnosticism is a philosophical and religious movement which started in pre-Christian times. The name is derived from the Greek word "gnosis" which literally means "knowledge."  However, the English words "Insight" and "enlightenment" capture more of the meaning of "gnosis."   It is pronounced with a silent "G" (NO-sis). Gnosticism is not factual, intellectual, rational knowledge, such as is involved in mathematics and physics; that would have been more accurately represented by the Greek world "episteme." Rather, Gnosticism involves the relational or experiential knowledge of God and of the divine or spiritual nature within us. A visitor to this web site wrote: ", we believe that gnosis-knowledge requires ultimate transcendence of the merely intellectual to be actualized." 1

Gnostics believe that they have secret knowledge about God, humanity and the rest of the universe of which the general population was unaware. It became one of the three main belief systems within 1st century Christianity, and was noted for four factors by which differed from the two other branches of Christianity:  Novel beliefs about Gods, the Bible and the world which differed from those of other Christian groups.
Tolerance of different religious beliefs within and outside of Gnosticism.
Lack of discrimination against women. Although Jesus treated women as equals, and Paul mostly did the same, the other Christian belief systems started to oppress women in later generations. 
A belief that salvation is achieved through relational and experiential knowledge. In the words of The contemporary Gnostic Apostolic Church, humanity needs to be awakened and brought "to a realisation of his true nature. Mankind is moving towards the Omega Point, the Great day when all must graduate or fall. This day is also the Day of Judgment in that only those who have entered the Path of Transfiguration and are being reborn can return to the Treasury of Light." 2


The movement and its literature were essentially wiped out before the end of the 5th century CE by  Catholic heresy hunters and the Roman Army. Its beliefs are currently experiencing a rebirth throughout the world, triggered in part by the discovery of an ancient Gnostic library at Nag Hammadi, Egypt in the 1940s, and the finding of the Gospel of Judas at El Minya, Egypt, in the 1970s.

m_nwankwo:

@Kobojunkie,
Thanks. The Grail Message does not draw from any religion, old and new. It stands on its own. However any thing that is truely true in old and new religions must be found in the Grail Message since the Truth is eternal and does not change nor contradict itself. This consistency of the truth make some readers of the Grail Message to sense that it has a bit of every religion. It does not have a bit of every religion but the truth that remains in all religions can be found in the Grail Message.

@Justcool

Thank you too. I wish you stenghth in the service of GOD, the ALMIGHTY. Stay blessed.

lafile:

@ Justcool
Let me state my case very clearly.
Re-Incarnation from the christian point of view makes no sense. Why? Because there is no reason for it. The only reason for re-incarnation would be so that man can find spiritual enlightenment and therefore salvation. However, for the christian faith, man cannot save himself. Salvation doesn't come by the works of man but by the blood of Christ. Why should i keep dying just to do what i caanot do myself?
There is not one verse in the bible that remotely alludes to a christian belief in re-Incarnation. Not one. Its not a matter of whether it was elaborated or not. It was not mentioned. The verse in Matthew about John the Baptist and Elijah does not suggest re-Incarnation. It was only talking about the similarity in the mission of both men. In fact none of the verses suggested by the poster relates to re-incarnation when viewed from a christian outlook.
See http://www.comparativereligion.com/reincarnation3.html

I don't want to repeat myself again, but i guess i have to. Gnostics were not Christian. The fundamental belief of Christianity (That Jesus is the ONLY way to God) was not held by Gnostics. So what makes them Christians? Because they call themselves so? Please! I Think Kobojunkie gave a perfect definition for Gnostics. For Emphasis sake let me repeat it here. "Gnosticism is a philosophical and religious movement with roots in pre-Christian times. Gnostics combined elements taken from Asian, Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek and Syrian pagan religions, from astrology, and from Judaism and Christianity."

@All
Why does everybody (Muslims, Cross Bearers(Grail Messengers) etc) want to force their beliefs into the bible? Why do they want to authenticate their faith from the bible? Is it because the recognise the Power behind the Word of God? I don't care about what is in any other book. I don't search for truth in any other book. I have found the TRUTH, The WHOLE TRUTH and NOTHING but the TRUTH in the Bible.

Maturedone:

Fellows, please find attached an article on BIBLE ACCOUNTS THAT SUGGEST REINCARNATION. Wishing you a joyful reading! [b][/b]

Dorcasde, I took my time to read all your other posts in other threads/forum and I can see that you are well informed and matured. In view of this, I would like to have a one-to-one talk with you. I would like to share my other dreams with you. The article also mentioned the ''In the Light of Truth-Grail Message'' as the source from which the author draws his knowledge…………I am very interested.
Please, kindly drop your email address here for me. I don’t want to leave mine because I don’t want people to start writing me nonsense, telling me there is nothing like past life/reincarnation. My life and dream experience can’t deceive me. Thanks! Waiting!

lafile:


@All
Why does everybody (Muslims, Cross Bearers(Grail Messengers) etc) want to force their beliefs into the bible? Why do they want to authenticate their faith from the bible? Is it because the recognise the Power behind the Word of God? I don't care about what is in any other book. I don't search for truth in any other book. I have found the TRUTH, The WHOLE TRUTH and NOTHING but the TRUTH in the Bible.

Mavenb0x:

@m_nwankwo: Do you remember our recent conversation about "they shall go out no more?" in Revelations? I can't recall the date and I dont want to start searching my posts but I guess you should recall it. Here it is, again, now. It is the 3rd to the last paragraph of the document attached in the OP (I downloaded it to check). And yet you insisted that it's not taught by Grail Message Adherents?

What the adherents of the Grail Message say is not the Grail Message.

Hi Mavenbox. What has the Grail Message got to do with the debate between Viaro and DeepSight? The debate is not on the truth or otherwise of reincarnation, rather it is whether or not reincarnation can be supported with biblical references. Yes the Grail Message teaches reincarnation but it did not infer it from the biblical reference you cited above. What the adherents of the Grail Message say is not the Grail Message. I would have joined this debate if it is on the truth or otherwise of reincarnation but it is not what the debate is all about. My personal view is that it is inappropriate to interpret biblical passages for those who believe the bible or interpret koran for moslems when the interpreter does not believe in whole or in part the contents of either the bible or the koran. My personal insight into these things gives me the conviction that Elijah didnot reincarnate as John the Babtist, and Jesus, the son of God is not a reincarnation of any person, rather he is the son of God. Stay blessed.

Yes the Grail Message teaches reincarnation but it did not infer it from the biblical reference you cited above.

[size=13pt]It[/size] is the 3rd to the last paragraph of the document attached in the OP (I downloaded it to check). And yet you insisted that [size=13pt]it's[/size] not taught by Grail Message Adherents?

m_nwankwo never said that reincarnation is not taught by Grail Message adherents.

Please lets try not misrepresent people and lets try to understand people's posts before we attribute things to them.

Mavenb0x:

seeklove, why are you hunting me everywhere on NL? Were you sent by some entities to snoop on me or to stalk me?

Why not let m_nwankwo speak for himself? I have known him to be intelligent enough to understand me, even without many words. Here, I SAID that I wasn't exactly quoting so he needed to understand what I was trying to remind him. This is what he said:

which was why I said

And you are here yapping that

Who said he said so? Ever considered writing a book "How to jump to conclusions"

The [b]IT [/b]in the quote does not refer to reincarnation, it refers to the biblical reference of "going out". AND M_NWANKWO said the particular Biblical reference was not used to infer reincarnation.

Mavenb0x:

Thanks, Modupe01. God bless you!

modupe01:

This is what the Bible says:

And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment. -- Hebrews 9:27 (The Evidence Bible).

This verse shows that there is no such thing as reincarnation. It is merely wishful thinking for guilty sinners. Many of the worlds religions teach their followers that if they don't get it right now that they will have other opportunities in their future lives. The implication of this heresy is that you don't need to trust in Jesus before you die. This lie is from the pit of hell and many folks have swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

Mavenb0x:

@m_nwankwo: Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know that whatever a Grail Message adherent says is not necessarily a pointer to the Grail Message. I was thinking like a Christian, we believe that we drink from the same waters. Have a great day.

justcool:

@modupe01

Did Lazarus and those Jesus raised from the dead die once?

modupe01:

There are exceptions to the rules. Divine interceptions where God shows mercy and gives another opportunity to complete their assignments and testimonies to these abound. But the Scripture is clear that after death is the Judgment. There is no second chance to be physically reborn to re-live one's life the second or third time as reincarnation teaches. It is either we are born once and die twice or born twice and die once. Being born twice and dying once does not mean to say reincarnation but the regeneration of one's spirit. If one is righteous at death their soul and spirit will go to heaven to await the resurrection of their bodies (2 Cor.5:8; Phil.1:21-24). The unbelieving sinners's spirit and soul will go to hell where they will await the resurrection of their bodies and experience the second death (Luke 16:19-31; Rev.20:11-15).

From the Scriptures we can see that there is nothing like reincarnation or purgatory or any such escape clause except the Lord has mercy and gives a second chance to come back to earth.