'll say fifteen. . . .By then,a teenager is already looking forward to finishing high school,having alot of things in mind to explore without wanting to adhere to certain 'rules' at home and school. Sturborn,wild, and too confident,trying to convince the parent he can make decisions on his own without being guided. Keeps alot of things from the parent,doubting and challenging their judgments,rather, confiding in friends who are obviously going through such adrenaline rush. . .

. . looking back,'ll say that described when i was fifteen.

Integration from Late adolescence to early adulthood (17-21).
This is when they go out into the outside world (college) to explore. Any teen has no home training (sexual, relationship, etc) will end up making a breaking-mistake.

Very challenging because parents will have to throw them out there, hoping they make wise decisions in all they do. But of course, as humans, we all make mistakes, some more than others.

daylae: Keeps alot of things from the parent,doubting and challenging their judgments,rather, confiding in friends who are obviously going through such adrenaline rush. . .

this is the time parents should be careful not to push their teens away by being too harsh and authoritarian. It is normal for teens at that stage to question certain judgement concerning them,it is left for the parent to be wise and not just say 'just do as i say'. . . But for me,i will say the late teenage years are the most challenging and frustrating.

For me i think its between the ages of 14 and 21.

Ileke-IdI:
Integration from Late adolescence to early adulthood (17-21).
This is when they go out into the outside world (college) to explore. Any teen has no home training (sexual, relationship, etc) will end up making a breaking-mistake.

Very challenging because parents will have to throw them out there, hoping they make wise decisions in all they do. But of course, as humans, we all make mistakes, some more than others.

i have to agree with you 17-21 is very critical,where parent have no choice but to leave them to make some sensitive decision on their own because is not that possible to guide such decisions.

But parents who are quite successful with their kids in their early to mid teenage years(13-16) are furtunate. Their children have good propensity of surviving outside amidst all pressure.

daylae:
i have to agree with you 17-21 is very critical,where parent have no choice but to leave them to make some sensitive decision on their own because is not that possible to guide such decisions.

But parents who are quite successful with their kids in their early to mid teenage years(13-16) are furtunate. Their children have good propensity of surviving outside amidst all pressure.

It's not impossible, but it is difficult, trying to guide the decision of a teen who believe he/she is a "free" adult.
From age 18, you lose legal reign on them, they DO NOT have to listen to you, as a parent, if they wish not to do so. And the law's hand is tied in this case.

13-16 is difficult too, I agree. Middle adolescence is the period period where they think more complexly, their cognition process grows while they try to understand and analyse the world around them. According to Erikson's theory of Self-Identity, this is the when identity crisis stage, " the struggle to find a balance between developing a unique, individual identity while still being accepted and "fitting in", sets in. While they're trying to find their own identity, parents may find it hard to help them shape their identity. Not to say that it's impossible.

However, I believe Early adulthood is harder because even then their identity is still taking shape as they acquire more knowledge about the world around them, but then they have more freedom from parents during this stage than during the middle adolescence.

Ileke-IdI:


It's not impossible, but it is difficult, trying to guide the decision of a teen who believe he/she is a "free" adult.
From age 18, you lose legal reign on them, they DO NOT have to listen to you, as a parent, if they wish not to do so. And the law's hand is tied in this case.

13-16 is difficult too, I agree. Middle adolescence is the period period where they think more complexly, their cognition process grows while they try to understand and analyse the world around them. According to Erikson's theory of Self-Identity, this is the when identity crisis stage, " the struggle to find a balance between developing a unique, individual identity while still being accepted and "fitting in", sets in. While they're trying to find their own identity, parents may find it hard to help them shape their identity. Not to say that it's impossible.

However, I believe Early adulthood is harder because even then their identity is still taking shape as they acquire more knowledge about the world around them, but then they have more freedom from parents during this stage than during the middle adolescence.

You are just speaking english. Which 13 yr old is thinking "complex" thoughts? All they are doing is concocting more mischief and trying to push boundaries to see how much they can get away with.
Identity crisis? Erikson is not serious... just making excuses for poor parenting and bad decisions.
Shape a child as early as 5-8 and you should have little problems. The issue is with parents on both extremes; on one hand are the naija parents who think yelling, cursing and flogging = parenting while the oyinbo ones think letting the child get anything he/she wants = parenting.

davidylan:

You are just speaking english. Which 13 yr old is thinking "complex" thoughts? All they are doing is concocting more mischief and trying to push boundaries to see how much they can get away with.
Identity crisis? Erikson is not serious... just making excuses for poor parenting and bad decisions.
Shape a child as early as 5-8 and you should have little problems. The issue is with parents on both extremes; on one hand are the naija parents who think yelling, cursing and flogging = parenting while the oyinbo ones think letting the child get anything he/she wants = parenting.

Tsk tsk, The same old David, what you do not understand or what does not align with your thought, you see as "nonsense".
Compared to early adolescence and younger, middle adolescence are making "complex" thoughts. Even their morality develops from pre-conventional morality to conventional morality.

Shape a child as early as 5-8 leaves no problem at an older age? My friend it's obvious that you have not raised a kid.

Ileke-IdI:


Tsk tsk, The same old David, what you do not understand or what does not align with your thought, you see as "nonsense".
Compared to early adolescence and younger, middle adolescence are making "complex" thoughts. Even their morality develops from pre-conventional morality to conventional morality.

Shape a child as early as 5-8 leaves no problem at an older age? My friend it's obvious that you have not raised a kid.

and i suppose you've raised a kid right? Bull.
Are we supposed to believe that a 5 year old who has learnt (without being taught) how to manipulate a parent or lie is not capable of complex thought until he/she is 13? What are the "complex" thoughts that are unique to a 13 yr old that is completely absent in the 8yr old child? the ability to lace their shoes, solve complex math problems or hatch a scheme to rob his parents?

What exactly do you mean by "morality"? An 8 yr old is already well aware that stealing is wrong so what are you saying?

You took one philosophy class in community college and we no go hear word again. Pele oh, shebi the rest of us no go school.

davidylan:

and i suppose you've raised a kid right? Bull.

No, I've raised three of them.

Are we supposed to believe that a 5 year old who has learnt (without being taught) how to manipulate a parent or lie is not capable of complex thought until he/she is 13? What are the "complex" thoughts that are unique to a 13 yr old that is completely absent in the 8yr old child? the ability to lace their shoes, solve complex math problems or hatch a scheme to rob his parents?
What exactly do you mean by "morality"? An 8 yr old is already well aware that stealing is wrong so what are you saying?

You cannot compare a 5 years old's interpretation of crime/punishment to that of a 13 years old's crime and punishment.
True, a five years old understands good and bad, but they're not yet able to comprehend the degree of good/bad crime/punishment on a societal level.
That's what i meant by complex cognitive processing. . . .
At early childhood, they're not yet developing any self-identity, they are what mom/dad and society tells them to be. middle-late adolescent is the beginning of the "self", they built their identity based on peers.

You took one philosophy class in community college and we no go hear word again. Pele oh, shebi the rest of us no go school.

Please Mr.Man, what I know about children is not text-based. I could school you on lifespan development, value knowledge that you'll not be able to find in the textbook.
So leave my community college out of this.

davidylan:
Shape a child as early as 5-8 and you should have little problems. .

Yes. But i believe any morals(good or bad) given to kids at this age by their parents can still be influenced easily because,at this stage,they still don't understand why they should or shouldn't do certain things instructed by their parents(like why telling a lie is bad). They just obey because their parents say stealing or telling a lie is bad.

I think from at least 13 yrs upward his able to understand some do's and don'ts on his own.

Ileke-IdI:


No, I've raised three of them.

cut the crap and get real pls. Babysitting kids is not the same as "raising" them. Where you solely responsible for their discipline, financial, emotional and physical responsibilities? I babysat some of my cousins too, i dont regard myself as having "raised" kids.

Ileke-IdI:

You cannot compare a 5 years old's interpretation of crime/punishment to that of a 13 years old's crime and punishment.
True, a five years old understands good and bad, but they're not yet able to comprehend the degree of good/bad crime/punishment on a societal level.
That's what i meant by complex cognitive processing. . . .
At early childhood, they're not yet developing any self-identity, they are what mom/dad and society tells them to be. middle-late adolescent is the beginning of the "self", they built their identity based on peers.

again cut the psychobabble. there are many 8 yr olds who can perfectly comprehend the meaning of crime and punishment. Besides, complex cognitive processing is way more than merely understanding societal norms.

Ileke-IdI:

Please Mr.Man, what I know about children is not text-based. I could school you on lifespan development, value knowledge that you'll not be able to find in the textbook.
So leave my community college out of this.

Cut the crap. You dont know anything neither can you school me on anything.

Capt. Cavey:


Yes. But i believe any morals(good or bad) given to kids at this age by their parents can still be influenced easily because,at this stage,they still don't understand why they should or shouldn't do certain things instructed by their parents(like why telling a lie is bad). They just obey because their parents say stealing or telling a lie is bad.

I think from at least 13 yrs upward his able to understand some do's and don'ts on his own.

then you've been doing a bad job as a parent. The problem is most naija parents never take the time to explain to a child why a behaviour is wrong... we just yell and beat.

davidylan:

then you've been doing a bad job as a parent. The problem is most naija parents never take the time to explain to a child why a behaviour is wrong... we just yell and beat.

you think? Picture a scenario where a parent who have been explaining to his kid why to tell the truth intructing the kid to tell visitors he is not home because he doesn't want anyone disturb his rest. I tell you the child will get confused whenever such parent come up with such preaching again. How do you explain to a 5-8 yr old for him to understand when is ok to tell a lie,and when is not ok to tell one?

I don't believe in spanking too,what am just saying is that,at that stage,kids don't really understand why they should or shouldn't do some certain things.

David actually raised some solid points there. Can't quote but I agree with some 8yr olds understanding the meaning of crime and punishment

davidylan:

cut the crap and get real pls. Babysitting kids is not the same as "raising" them. Where you solely responsible for their discipline, financial, emotional and physical responsibilities? I babysat some of my cousins too, i dont regard myself as having "raised" kids.

Stop the nonsense. I was responsible for all the above, except their finance.

again cut the psychobabble. there are many 8 yr olds who can perfectly comprehend the meaning of crime and punishment. Besides, complex cognitive processing is way more than merely understanding societal norms.

Even a 5 years old understands crime/ punishment. However, their moral understanding is heavily guided by society/ parent. You cannot compare an early adult's understanding of moral to that of a child's understanding.
Would an 8-yrs old understand why a man had to rob a store to save his wife's life after the insurance company declined to help? No. The action is believed to be wrong, because momy said it's wrong. All they understand is that it's wrong to steal, but they're not yet morally developed to understand the unselfish act behind it.


Refer to the Heinz Dilemma

Heinz's dilemma is a frequently used example in many ethics and morality classes. One well-known version of the dilemma, used in Lawrence Kohlberg's stages of moral development, is stated as follows:
Heinz's wife was near death, and her only hope was a drug that had been discovered by a pharmacist who was selling it for an exorbitant price. The drug cost $20,000 to make, and the pharmacist was selling it for $200,000. Heinz could only raise $50,000 and insurance wouldn't make up the difference. He offered what he had to the pharmacist, and when his offer was rejected, Heinz said he would pay the rest later. Still the pharmacist refused. In desperation, Heinz considered stealing the drug. Would it be wrong for him to do that?

Should Heinz have broken into the store to steal the drug for his wife? Why or why not?

From a theoretical point of view, it is not important what the participant thinks that Heinz should do. Kohlberg's theory holds that the justification the participant offers is what is significant, the form of their response. Below are some of many examples of possible arguments that belong to the six stages:

Stage one (obedience): Heinz should not steal the medicine because he will consequently be put in prison which will mean he is a bad person. Or: Heinz should steal the medicine because it is only worth $200 and not how much the druggist wanted for it; Heinz had even offered to pay for it and was not stealing anything else.

Stage two (self-interest): Heinz should steal the medicine because he will be much happier if he saves his wife, even if he will have to serve a prison sentence. Or: Heinz should not steal the medicine because prison is an awful place, and he would more likely languish in a jail cell than over his wife's death.

Stage three (conformity): Heinz should steal the medicine because his wife expects it; he wants to be a good husband. Or: Heinz should not steal the drug because stealing is bad and he is not a criminal; he has tried to do everything he can without breaking the law, you cannot blame him.

Stage four (law-and-order): Heinz should not steal the medicine because the law prohibits stealing, making it illegal. Or: actions have consequences.

Stage five (human rights): Heinz should steal the medicine because everyone has a right to choose life, regardless of the law. Or: Heinz should not steal the medicine because the scientist has a right to fair compensation. Even if his wife is sick, it does not make his actions right.

Stage six (universal human ethics): Heinz should steal the medicine, because saving a human life is a more fundamental value than the property rights of another person. Or: Heinz should not steal the medicine, because others may need the medicine just as badly, and their lives are equally significant.

An 8-yrs old will be in stage 1, while an early adult will be in stage 3.


[quoteCut the crap. You dont know anything neither can you school me on anything.
][/quote]

tsk tsk.

Capt. Cavey:

you think? Picture a scenario where a parent who have been explaining to his kid why to tell the truth intructing the kid to tell visitors he is not home because he doesn't want anyone disturb his rest. I tell you the child will get confused whenever such parent come up with such preaching again. How do you explain to a 5-8 yr old for him to understand when is ok to tell a lie,and when is not ok to tell one?

I don't believe in spanking too,what am just saying is that,at that stage,kids don't really understand why they should or shouldn't do some certain things.

I think we're both wasting our time here. Once he thinks he's right, he's right. In his mind.