[color=#000099][/color][b][/b] WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION, IS THERE TRUTH IN IT?

senator4u:

[color=#000099][/color]WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION, IS THERE TRUTH IN IT?

OH, Yes. It is nothing if not the TRUTH.

huxley2:

OH, Yes. It is nothing if not the TRUTH.

what is the truth?

noetic2:

what is the truth?

The fact that humans have not always walked this earth in our present form. The fact that there were no mammals in the precambrian. Show my a mammalian fossil from the precambrian, and I will bow to your superior knowledge and stop posting anti-christian and anti-religion post here on NL.

huxley2:

The fact that humans have not always walked this earth in our present form. 

No one has ever denied this. Evolution is not the only "theory" to "unprovably" claim this.

The bible records a flood that wiped all living creatures off the earth. This biblical account is buttressed by several scientific evidences including:

1. polystrate fossils
2. The existence of these fossils
3.  Turbudity currents
4. Extensive Strata and pancake layering
5. Fossil Whales and several others.

I could go on and on, but the bottom line is that, u CANNOT use changes to the earth to lay credence to the falsehood of the evolution theory.

The fact that there were no mammals in the precambrian.  Show my a mammalian fossil from the precambrian, and I will bow to your superior knowledge and stop posting anti-christian and anti-religion post here on NL.

How does this buttress evolution or deny biblical accounts?  If u can tell me:

1. the pioneer organisms that kick started life
2. The defining simpler chemical reactions that made up the complex chemical reaction, which evolved life as we know it today.
3. The catalysts of this reaction.

I will subsequently bow to ur knowledge and acknowledge the intelligence and rationality in atheistic driven arguments.

noetic2:

No one has ever denied this. Evolution is not the only "theory" to "unprovably" claim this.

The bible records a flood that wiped all living creatures off the earth. This biblical account is buttressed by several scientific evidences including:

1. polystrate fossils
2. The existence of these fossils
3.  Turbudity currents
4. Extensive Strata and pancake layering
5. Fossil Whales and several others.

Can you explain how these "evidence" support the Noah's flood? ,You guys just throw words around without even knowing what they mean. Explain to me how your "evidence" support the Noah's flood. The last time I checked Even Christians are now saying that it was a regional flood.

senator4u:

[color=#000099] WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION, [b]IS THERE TRUTH IN IT?[/colour]

I think so. I have been studying evolution for over 4 months now and I can believe that it contains some scientific truth in it. . . . . There are some aspects of it that I do not understand and my friend that explains most of the things to me is out of town, but let me just post the general theory of evolution what it means and what it says then you can decided for your self it it contains any truth in it. The post below was sent to me by a friend who wanted me to understand what evolution is all about.

What is evolution?

“Evolution is change in the genetic material of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. “ – Wikipedia. The changes are small between generations however the amount of changes builds up over the course of several generations and can lead to substantial changes or the creation of a new species. Similarities between organisms (more on this later) have led the scientific community that all known species are descended from a common ancestor.

NOTE: EVOLUTION IS USED TO EXPLAIN THE DIVERSITY OF LIFE RATHER THAN THE ORIGINS OF LIFE (ABIOGENISIS)

NOTE 2: THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION IS AN COMPLETELY SEPARATE THEORY TO THE BIG BANG THEORY.

Terms and definitions-

•   Common Ancestor-“A group of organisms is said to have common descent if they have a common ancestor. In modern biology, it is generally accepted that all living organisms on earth are descended from a common ancestor or ancestral gene pool.” – Wikipedia.
•   Species- A group of organisms which may reproduce and produce fertile viable offspring.
•   Organism- Anything which is alive.
•   Genome- The total genetic information within an organism.
•   Natural selection -the process where heritable traits that make it more likely for an organism to survive long enough to reproduce become more common over successive generations of a population.- Wikipedia
•   Phenotype- Any observable trait in an organism E.g. Male/female
•   Genotype- An organism’s genetic information for a trait. E.g. XY/XX
•   Mutations- Changes in the sequence of genetic material.
•   Recessive gene- a gene which is masked by a dominant gene, it is not weaker or worse
•   Dominant gene- a gene which masks a recessive gene, it is not stronger or better

How evolution works

How natural selection works

There is a misconception that evolution is random process, although mutation is random it is guided through the process of natural selection.  Within a species there is a certain extent of variation, these variations affect the chances of an organism from surviving long enough to reproduce. Say for example you have a group of locusts some of the locusts have a resistance to pesticides. Under normal conditions this locusts with resistance have no survival advantage however once the insects are exposed to the pesticides the resistant locusts have a selective advantage over the normal locusts and a greater proportion of the resistant locusts are able to reproduce than the locusts without the resistance. Eventually the resistant locusts make up the entirety of the population.

Nature of DNA+RNA
Before I go into mutations and how they affect the organism you need a basic understanding of DNA:
•   DNA is made up of 4 nucleotides Thymine (T), Adenine (A), Guanine (G), Cytosine (C)
•   DNA is coded in a series of triplets such as AAA TAG ACAG
•   Each of these triplets codes for one amino acid (see graph below)
•   The nucleotide sequences for stop mean start a new protein.

[img]http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/information-biological/GeneticCode.png[/img]

Mutations

There are several types of mutations:
•   Deletion- The removal of one or more nucleotides
•   Insertion- The addition of one or more nucleotides
•   Substitutions- The replacement of a nucleotide for another
•   Translocation- swapping of the position of nucleotides
•   Frame shift Mutations- An insertion or deletion of nucleotides that is not divisible by three which disrupts the triplet sequence. This can cause major changes in the entire sequence. E.G : 
AGT  TGA  GAT GTC  CCG  GCA  ACG  CTG ATC
Ser   Stop Asp  Val   Pro   Ala    Thr   Leu  Ile
Now remove the first Adenine
           GTT   GAG  ATG  TCC  CGG  CAA  CGC TGA TC
           Val     Glu    Met   Ser  Gly    Gin   Arg  STOP X

There are also large scale chromosomal mutations:
•   Duplications- additional copy/copies of a chromosomal regions leading to an increased dosage of the genes.
•   Deletions of large chromosomal regions can lead to the removal  of genes
•   Translocations- swapping parts of a chromosomes with other chromosomes
•   Inversions- reversing the way the chromosome is orientated.

The effect of mutations:
•   Silent mutations- mutations which have no effect because the mutation changes the code to an alternative code for the same amino acid.
•   Lethal mutations- Mutations which kill the organism
•   Loss of function Mutations- Mutations which impair the function or stop the gene working entirely. This is often a recessive gene as a result.
•   Gain of function- change in the structure so that it gains new abnormal function. Usually a dominant mutation.
•   Back mutation- a mutation which undoes another mutation

Types of Mutations by inheritance-
•   Somatic mutations- Non Inheritable mutations
•   Germ line Mutation- mutations which may be passed on to the next generation.

Causes of Mutations
•   Spontaneous Mutations- mutations without a cause, usually a mistake in translation.
•   Induced mutation- mutations caused by a mutagenic agent such as radiation and certain chemical substances.

Evidence for evolution:
•   Comparative Genomics- The similarities in genomes suggest a common ancestor, for example humans share 94% of our genome with chimpanzees. It is not simply sharing dna; its sharing the same retroviruses, chromosomal fusions, and even molecular biological relationships that represent occurences or changes in dna itself.  Virtually all of which just happens to occur along the same dna chains amongst countless thousands of places it could have appeared. Each one of these findings in themselves represent INDIVIDUAL points of comparative data, they are separately arrived volumes of data that when compared with each other, overlap and match. Chromosomes, Dna, Retroviruses, Mitochondrial dna, molecular biology, fossil record ,  all form a web of information that simply doesn't contradict itself. (Odin)

•   "The simplest and most powerful evidence is provided by phylogenetic reconstruction. Such reconstructions, especially when done using slowly-evolving protein sequences, are often quite robust and can be used to reconstruct a great deal of the evolutionary history of modern organisms.This evidence does not support the rival hypothesis that genetic similarity of two species is the product of common functional or structural requirements, and not common descent (for example, if there is one best way to produce a hoof, all hoofed creatures will share a genetic basis even if they are not related). However, phylogenetic relationships also extend to a wide variety of nonfunctional sequence elements, including repeats, transposons, pseudogenes, and mutations in protein-coding sequences that do not result in changes in amino-acid sequence. While a minority of these elements might later be found to harbor function, in aggregate they demonstrate that identity must be the product of common descent rather than common function." -Wikipedia.
•   The Fossil record- "It is possible to find out how a particular group of organisms evolved by arranging its fossil records in a chronological sequence. Such a sequence can be determined because fossils are mainly found in sedimentary rock. Sedimentary rock is formed by layers of silt or mud on top of each other; thus, the resulting rock contains a series of horizontal layers, or strata. Each layer contains fossils which are typical for a specific time period during which they were made. The lowest strata contain the oldest rock and the earliest fossils, while the highest strata contain the youngest rock and more recent fossils."- Wikipedia A great example of the fossil record is the horse which has an almost complete fossil record



•   Comparative anatomy- Similar bone structure can be used to show the divergent evolutionary paths



•   Vestigial organs and structures- Many species have a vestigial structures such as the human appendix and tail bone which indicate that a common ancestor made use of these structures
•   Antibiotic and pesticide resistance- This is evidence of natural selection taking place, and it is an undeniable fact. Currently bacteria are becoming more and more resistant to antibiotics such as penicillin. A perfect example of this is golden staph where there have been reported cases of golden staph which is resistant to even the most potent antibiotics.
•   Observed speciation- Speciation has been observed on a significant number of occasions which may be found here under section 5.1
•   Hybrids- Hybrids such as ligers and mules provides evidence of a common ancestor between two species.

Acceptance of evolution in the scientific community

In 2007 the Discovery Institute (the main "scientific body against evolution) claimed that 700 scientists had expressed support for intelligent design, although this may sound like a large number this actually means that roughly 99% of scientists support evolution. "And of the 700 'scientists' who have signed the Discovery Institute's letter, a vanishingly small number are biologists---most of them are physicists, engineers, computer scientists and the like. " Spetznatz.

"Additionally, the scientific community considers intelligent design, a neo-creationist offshoot, to be unscientific, pseudo-science,or junk science.The U.S. National Academy of Sciences has stated that intelligent design "and other claims of supernatural intervention in the origin of life" are not science because they cannot be tested by experiment, do not generate any predictions, and propose no new hypotheses of their own."- Wikipedia.

This is the most detailed attempt any body has ever done to explain what evolution is to me,for now. So I am closely examining it to see where its assertions lead to.

Mazaje ina ka samu wannna kuma? Watu ka wassa ma su shi kenan.

Mazeje,

Well done. Keep it up.

To learn more about evolution, check out the following:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqIrM70ENFQ&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=8EE54070B382E73A

http://www.youtube.com/user/DonExodus2

huxley2:

Mazeje,

Well done. Keep it up.

what's up hux? how are you doing?

Good job mazaje. . .couldn't have put it better. This is nice simplified version for all to see and appreciate. Hope they learn one or two stuffs.

Tùdor:

Good job mazaje. . .couldn't have put it better. This is nice simplified version for all to see and appreciate. Hope they learn one or two stuffs.

So true, I myself have learnt a lot from this post, it is the simplest explanation of evolution I have ever come across and it makes a lot of sense, there are still a lot of questions that need to be answered. _{The post has, more pictures than the bible} 

@ Mazaje.

That life "evolves" is a proven "fact", the bone of contention is the very "source" of that "evolvement". 

what exactly is the point of substituting the very source of life with a "BIG BANG"? When a research has a defined boundary to state that "point A" can NEVER  be the source of life, and these same researchers CANNOT provide an alternative. then that is bias and very unobjective.


What kick-started evolution? . . . . . . If u can answer this, then at LAST u might make sense.

noetic2:

@ Mazaje.

That life "evolves" is a proven "fact", the bone of contention is the very "source" of that "evolvement". 

so you now admit  that life evolves eh? where in the bible does it ever make the assertion that life evolves? did the goat herders that wrote the bible ever know that life evolves? they would have written about if they knew wouldn't they?

what exactly is the point of substituting the very source of life with a "BIG BANG"? When a research has a defined boundary to state that "point A" can NEVER  be the source of life, and these same researchers CANNOT provide an alternative. then that is bias and very unobjective.

what is your own bible explanation for the origin of life? god breathe into  man that was made of dust and he began to live or that god directed the plants to come out of the ground and they did?(infact your god does not seem to know when exactly he created plants according to the 2 different creation accounts in genesis 1 and 2) how does that explain anything? right now we don't know for sure, there are other explanations for the origin of life(abiogenesis) which i believe is not very clear for now. how has your god did it ever explain anything. the old testament god was fond of using lighting to kill his enemies but once men knew what caused lighting and how it can be stopped from destroying all buildings and other things your god suddenly stopped using it.

What kick-started evolution? . . . . . . If u can answer this, then at LAST u might make sense.

i am studying all these assertions for now so i don't know. what kick started life? of course i know you will tell me that yahweh did without even trying to defend how he said he did it in the bible.

here is what an an evangelical christian scientist(david young) had to say.

"Creationism is an incredible pain in the neck, neither honest nor useful, and the people who advocate it have no idea how much damage they are doing to the credibility of belief."

mazaje:

so you now admit  that life evolves eh? where in the bible does it ever make the assertion that life evolves? did the goat herders that wrote the bible ever know that life evolves? they would have written about if they knew wouldn't they?

are u this gullible? didnt u see the "evolve" in quote. . . . . u should have asked me what I meant by "evolve".

what is your own bible explanation for the origin of life? god breathe into  man that was made of dust and he began to live or that god directed the plants to come out of the ground and they did?(infact your god does not seem to know when exactly he created plants according to the 2 different creation accounts in genesis 1 and 2) how does that explain anything? right now we don't know for sure, there are other explanations for the origin of life(abiogenesis) which i believe is not very clear for now. how has your god did it ever explain anything. the old testament god was fond of using lighting to kill his enemies but once men knew what caused lighting and how it can be stopped from destroying all buildings and other things your god suddenly stopped using it.

what is ur alternative? How did life begin? what are the pioneer organisms? what are the components of the first chemical reactions that kick started life/evolution?

i am studying all these assertions[b] for now so i don't know[/b]. what kick started life? of course i know you will tell me that yahweh did without even trying to defend how he said he did it in the bible.

I dont expect u to know, cos for over 100 years your lying evolution predecessors COULD NOT find an answer.

here is what an an evangelical christian scientist(david young) had to say.

"Creationism is an incredible pain in the neck, neither honest nor useful, and the people who advocate it have no idea how much damage they are doing to the credibility of belief."

How is this relevant to the debate?

mazaje:

what's up hux? how are you doing?

Maz,

Am fine.  Was just admiring in awe at how well you explain evolution here. Great Job.

huxley2:

Maz,

Am fine.  Was just admiring in awe at how well you explain evolution here. Great Job.

, nice to know that you are fine. actually it wasn't me that wrote it down it was a friend that wrote it down for me so i decided to share it, it is very simple and clear infact it is the best explanation of evolution that i have ever come across.

noetic2:

are u this gullible? didnt u see the "evolve" in quote. . . . . u should have asked me what I meant by "evolve".

i might be a lot of things but gullible is what i am not.

what is ur alternative? How did life begin? what are the pioneer organisms? what are the components of the first chemical reactions that kick started life/evolution?

you saw me talk about abiogeneis didn't you? that is one explanation for the origin of life. where did your bible talk about the complex first chemical reactions that kick started life?

I dont expect u to know, cos for over 100 years your lying evolution predecessors COULD NOT find an answer.

what answers have your own lying goat herders that decided to tag refraction of sunlight on the earth atmosphere a covenant between them and their god?

How is this relevant to the debate?

it shows that there are some honest one amongst you that are willing and not afraid to state that creationism is a senseless drivel.

I'm not even going to bother with the piffle mazaje posted here. the fact that there are miniature horses the size of the alleged ancestor horse makes his horse evolution claims silly.

davidylan:

I'm not even going to bother with the piffle mazaje posted here. the fact that there are miniature horses the size of the alleged ancestor horse makes his horse evolution claims to rubbish.

An assertion without substantiation. Why do you think the size of the horse do not indicate evolution? BTW, it is not the size alone, but the size together with many other features.

Much like the sizes of present-day elephants. Two main species exist today - the African and the Asian elephants. The Asian elepant is slightly smaller than the African elephant.

huxley2:

An assertion without substantiation.  Why do you think the size of the horse do not indicate evolution? BTW, it is not the size alone, but the size together with many other features.   

Much like the sizes of present-day elephants.  Two main species exist today - the African and the Asian elephants.  The Asian elepant is slightly smaller than the African elephant.

What a fool. where is the substantiation of the horse evolution? Where are the fossils of all the intermediates?

davidylan:

What a fool. where is the substantiation of the horse evolution? Where are the fossils of all the intermediates?

I await the answers in deep breadth.

where is huxley?

senator4u:

[color=#000099][/color][b][/b] WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION, IS THERE TRUTH IN IT?

The theory of evolution is currently the best explanation for the origins and diversity of species. As at yet, the theory has yet to be falsified.

Another Theory is that a supernatural being called '' God '' created the earth and everything in it , In 6 days and 24 hours or 144 hour , and on The 7th Day He Rested '' Slept ''. If you say that God can create a whole universe, all the stars , all the animals, design the wings of each butterfly and the wings of each species in a mere 7 days simply because God can do anything and everything , Then 7 days is too long of a period for an all powerful God , Allah , Yahweh , Rabb , Or Adonai Eloheem , Shem , Thehos , Christ , Khrishna , Or Whatever you call him to do it . A God or Gods of this caliber could have done it in less time , Especially when all he has to say is Be, and instantly, It Is . So you mean to say that in only Six Days Of 24 hours each, your all mighty God Got Tired ? What foolishness . That would mean Adam at this time was only A few hours old or 86,400 Seconds old when he named all the animals . Make note that The Bible tells them , That '' each day with the Lord , Yahweh is 1,000 years and 1,000 years one day '' ( Psalm 9 ; 4 , 2 Peter 3 ; 8 ) , and time is based on how far you are from the Sun . This is a religious theory, that after existing from before time he just decided to start then and say Let us create , where a God , by whichever name he or she may be called always existed , decided to created a being called Human '' In His Image And After His / Her Likeness '' ( Genesis 1 ; 27 ) . The creation is what is termed as The '' 6 Days Of Creation '' , Different '' Sacred '' Book called ; The Bible , Koran , Hadith , Talmud And The Mishna , Kabala , Urantia , Book Of Mormons , and many other books support this theory  . It is recorded that some kind of '' God '' waved his hand and made all things possible . This is believe by many to be he total truth by different religion and sects , Never to ask who created this single creator . That would be a Sin. They don't care what new information is being provided each day by scientists , or anthropologists . Facts are being found each day to prove their religions wrong .

The Vanishing Case for Evolution
by Henry Morris, Ph.D.*

Evolutionary belief is a remarkable and largely unexplained phenomenon. It is a belief held by most intellectuals all over the world, despite the fact that there is no real scientific evidence for it at all. Evolutionists allege that evolution is a proved scientific fact, based on a multitude of scientific proofs, but they are unable to document even one of these supposed proofs! This curious situation is illustrated below in quotations from several leading evolutionary scientists.

http://www.icr.org/article/4342/