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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? (3682 Views)
What Is The Point Of Free Will? / Can You Explain How Writing The Bible Came About? / God's Omnipotence Contradicts The Requirement For Free Will In God's Plan. (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by MaxInDHouse(m): 10:39pm On Nov 03, 2021 |
It's about freedom to do everything you want except setting standards for your fellow man, only the Creator has the wisdom to do that! Genesis 3:1-3 If we all agree to make the research to know the standard God set for us to cohabit peacefully then there will be no cause for evil thoughts! |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by A001: 10:51pm On Nov 03, 2021 |
TenQ:You obviously don't understand what you posted. It's completely unrelated to my comment about your poor knowledge of Physics. I don't know where you got the idea that my post suggests you can condense all the laws of physics in a unified form as just a phrase. Even Maxwell's equations (below) that unified electricity and magnetism did so with four equations. The Einstein field equation (below) comprises 16 equations when all the tensors are considered. How then do you think I meant all these can be unified with quantum mechanics and gravity using a single phrase? Physics is some form of supernatural abracadabra stuff? If you actually know that it's beyond the experimental capabilities of the currently available labs on Earth to merge all the fundamental forces of nature to together to form a unified law or a theory of everything, you wouldn't have made that post. To gain a deeper understanding of nature, it's better you study Quantum Physics, Relativity. Your knowledge of Physics is at the level of secondary school students. Your worldview is Newtonian and is anachronistic. Nature isn't really as simple as you paint it.
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Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by TenQ: 12:05am On Nov 04, 2021 |
A001:Just see how you make so much sense! SMH!! |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by TenQ: 12:07am On Nov 04, 2021 |
Workch:If you cannot present a unified theory of physics in a phrase or sentence, please keep your mouth shut as you are confused! |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by Workch: 6:37am On Nov 04, 2021 |
TenQ:Whatever, 3 people already corrected you on this thread. Just stop talking about science, you are illiterate |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by Dtruthspeaker: 7:23am On Nov 04, 2021 |
A001: We do know everything elsewhere and beyond the earth but on earth, it is proven beyond reasonable doubt that everything on the earth has a Cause. |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by A001: 8:03am On Nov 04, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker:Says who? Where's your proof? |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by LordReed(m): 8:15am On Nov 04, 2021 |
Workch: I do hope, this discussion requires no emotional appeals. |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by Hohenheim(m): 8:15am On Nov 04, 2021 |
It's always funny to me when people claim god is omniscient but also say I'm going to hell for sinning, so god creating me solely for the purpose of sending me to hell? 2 Likes |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by LordReed(m): 8:18am On Nov 04, 2021 |
TenQ: Dtruthspeaker is a professor, a lawyer, a chemist and now a physicist. LMFAO! |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by A001: 8:19am On Nov 04, 2021 |
LordReed:Jack of all trades, master of none 1 Like |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by LordReed(m): 8:19am On Nov 04, 2021 |
TenQ: Your will was not caused by you since you didn't cause yourself. |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by LordReed(m): 9:25am On Nov 04, 2021 |
TenQ: Your consciousness was not caused by you. |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by LordReed(m): 9:30am On Nov 04, 2021 |
A001: |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by Dtruthspeaker: 9:42am On Nov 04, 2021 |
A001: Can you name one thing in this world which TRULY made and created itself? Just one! |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by hupernikao: 9:45am On Nov 04, 2021 |
Workch: You should be listening, get a pen and be taking notes from the person you just quoted. I hope you see his intelligent question. Not the one will be asking that a snake is talking or animal going into ark. That is for the children. So, take a side seat talk less and start learning. |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by Workch: 9:46am On Nov 04, 2021 |
hupernikao:I am with a pen ready to take down all the possible fallacies you about to commit. I will spot them at every point |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by A001: 9:47am On Nov 04, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker:There are a number of such: entangled spins, the rest masses of unstable particles, the position of a particle that’s passed through a double slit, and so on. Check this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/6690123/all-science-key-facts-researches/1#107300391 |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by LordReed(m): 10:43am On Nov 04, 2021 |
MaxInDHouse: So basically you don't think we have free will? |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by Dtruthspeaker: 11:25am On Nov 04, 2021 |
A001: You are not giving ANY THING that everyone Sees and Knows, simple everyday things like sand, animals, birds, balls etc.action movies gibberish do not count. Give us any natural thing or is it TRULY impossible for you to find one, as I said? |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by hupernikao: 12:12pm On Nov 04, 2021 |
LordReed: You asked a very thought provoking question. But as you referred to theists, i will limit my discussion to Christian Theology (The Bible). My response may be a bit long, but i will appreciate, you take time to go through it for proper discussion flow. GOD SOVEREIGNITY, CAUSES AND FREEWILL: DOES GOD'S SOVEREIGNTY MEANS HE CAN DECIDE EVERYTHING AS HE LIKES? Firstly, it is a poor theology to believe this, because we have seen through the history, man stopping the hand of God, disobeying God and doing not his will. So, What is God's Sovereignty Sovereignty of God is one of the most misinterpreted concept about God. Most used the knowledge carried from secular world about a God who can just wake up and do whatever he likes without thinking twice or no restriction. The truth is the Bible never presented such God. The word sovereign as a text does not exist in any text of the Bible. The usage of Sovereignty usually implies someone who is independent of control. It can be used in a bad light with respect to dictators, tyrants. The issue with the word is that such person cannot be controlled. The word can be used for individuals, institutions and nations. This is the current world notion. But in Christian Theology, until you put the bible thoughts together about God, that is, read everything together to form an opinion, this concept will never be understood. SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD MUST FULFILL WITHIN THE LIMIT OF HIS OTHER ATTRIBUTES Think of this: Can a God who act in such sovereignty as described in my first paragraph still be referred to as - a Just - a Loving - a Faithful - a Righteous God? Of cause no. But the bible, showed you that God is Just, Loving, Faithful and Righteous God. These are well documented and loud in all the texts of the scriptures. Hence you cant teach God's sovereignty outside these attributes. For example: Faithfulness means to "remaining loyal and steadfast", unchanging irrespective of events. That means, God's sovereignty must be within the confide of his faithfulness. He does change. So, we must look at God's actions of causes and effects, sovereignty, with the eye of his being JUST, RIGHTEOUS, FAITHFUL, AND LOVING. This is what the Bible presented to us as God, hence we must read all events in the Bible to find this attributes in God put together and present interpretation of this in all events a deviation from this is what leads to seeing inconsistencies in the bible. DOES GOD CAUSES ALL OR PREDETERMINES ALLTHINGS? Secondly, the issue of Cause all things, or Pre-determine things. We must observed that the scriptures written in ancient language, will use words in their days. Hence we must use the meaning of words as used in their days not as ours, For example, the usage of pre-determination (proorizo) in bible days was never meant as finality, a conclusion. It was used as a plan. In classical Greek, even the secular writer never used it to mean to determine an outcome. Hippocrates (460-370 BC), Greek physician, used the word (proorizo) to describe an intended result following the administration of medication. Which shows that, even when medicine is applied, the medication cannot always determine the final outcome. Now, Did God Pre-Determine All Things? That is, a finality and conclusion? No, it wasnt taught in the Bible. Bible language in itself is full of man's choices. A very central activities in the Bible. This implies that 1. God doesnt cause all things 2. God will work within the choices of cause to achieve his own plan too WHAT THEN IS FREE WILL I am sure, the modern day reader are likely to see the world FREE and take it to mean "doing anything you like. Even some dictionary gives such notion of expression. Oxford Dictionary gives these meaning for freewill. - the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; - the ability to act at one's own discretion. You and I know that the first was never even in man's practice. It doesnt occur anywhere in the world. Every actions has a consequence or outcome. The second meaning is what FREEWILL does means. to acts on one's own discretion, hence, you decide your outcome. HOW IS FREEWILL PRACTICES AMONG MEN. Since men wrote the scriptures, men's language are used, so let us observe how freewill is used among men. Observe close words and their practices below. 1. Freedom of Speech: We all know even the best of freedom of speech doesnt exonerate the speaker from being responsible for what he says. 2. Freedom of Information: You are still responsible for the information you feed on or you use. 3. Freedom of Expressions. You are absolutely responsible for the outcome of your free expression. That means, being FREE was never to mean outside consequence. Why then do we want to interpret freewill in the scriptures as without consequence? Hence, a presentation of freewill doctrine outside the consequence of the decision is a false one. So, does man has a will to choose Adam (humanity) can exercise free will without God's interference. Gen 2:20 20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. When you see words like If thou, Choose, commanded etc, they already showed you that man has a choice to do or not do. CAN WE HAVE FREEWILL OUTSIDE THE CONSEQUENCES OF OUR DECISION? Most claim that if you can be punished for your action, them its not freewill. The problem is, they have been informed wrongly on what freewill means. Freewill doesnt mean just doing everything you like irrespective of how it affect you or your neighbor of environment. Hence, freewill must be understood within the domain of its consequence. Even an atheist who wants man to have decisions outside "no God", is still preaching freewill within a limit of his environment. That limits how much you call free, and place a burden of the consequence of your actions on you. In Conclusion Man's greatest instrument is his freewill. This is seen and defined in God's sovereignty: just and loving. A just God, wont impose his own will on man, That is love. Therefore man's actions are the cause of his life or another man's life. he determines how he wants to exercise his will. Yet that will's freedom must be within the limit of others and his environment. Being Just mean, to be able to ensure than each bear the consequences of its action even in his own very freewill. |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by A001: 12:14pm On Nov 04, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker:Some of them are natural things that can be observed with the right tools. The fact that you're not opportune to see them doesn't mean that several scientists in CERN, for instance, don't see lots of such things regularly. Then, those quantum objects are found as components of the natural, everyday things you listed above and in many natural, biological, and physical processes. |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by TenQ: 1:14pm On Nov 04, 2021 |
LordReed:Consciousness is the ABILITY to 1. Feel your environment 2. Like or Dislike what you have felt 3. Take appropriate action to minimize or maximise the experience of your feeling within the limit of the external constraints available YOU are the one who Feel YOU are the one who Like or Dislike your Feeling YOU are the one who chose your appropriate action The ABILITY to be LIVING was given to YOU |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by TenQ: 1:18pm On Nov 04, 2021 |
LordReed:Sorry, I don't know if you are deliberately feigning ignorance of the definition of Freewill or not Did anyone compel you you reply this post? If yes, then your will was caused by that person. Was it done by force or duress? If not, then your will was yours only to make! |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by TenQ: 1:19pm On Nov 04, 2021 |
LordReed:Some of your friends feel that I should speak in scientific language to him as they assume he is a professor of Physics |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by TenQ: 1:24pm On Nov 04, 2021 |
Workch:You can see that their foolishness has shut them up. Birds of the same feather.... Your type: Feigning knowledge yet so ignorant: the kind of knowledge that makes a full grown man to be confused about his gender. Yet, truly knowledgeable people don't ever make the mistake of getting a cockerel to lay eggs! SMH!! |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by LordReed(m): 1:39pm On Nov 04, 2021 |
TenQ: What is the definition of freewill? |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by TenQ: 1:48pm On Nov 04, 2021 |
LordReed:I have quoted it several times within this post Here it is again TenQ: |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by Workch: 2:07pm On Nov 04, 2021 |
TenQ:I don’t know much, it’s impossible to know all. But it’s good to always want to accept corrections. You lack that quality. You are ignorant and incorrigible. That’s a disease dude |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by TenQ: 2:23pm On Nov 04, 2021 |
Workch:I love how you have simply described yourself! |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by Dtruthspeaker: 2:58pm On Nov 04, 2021 |
A001: State the natural things, let me go outside and examine them. That's the beauty of Nature, it puts things beyond debate. Men, women Scientists Lie and are capable of lying BUT NOT NATURE. so please state the natural things, if you have any. |
Re: Can You Explain How If Everything Has A Cause You Then Have Free Will? by A001: 3:01pm On Nov 04, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker:Can you observe all things in nature with the naked eye? Can you see microbes, viruses, crystalline structures of some atoms, and tons of others with your naked eyes? Or aren't all this natural things? You're nothing but a scientific illiterate. |
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