How true is the underlined statement?

The Bible verses that was given to read Acts 15:14 "Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name." and Acts 15:17 "That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things."(KJV)

I believe the purpose of referring to these verses is the underlined words "his name & my name" but what actually happen here?

Verse 13 indicates that it was JAMES who is narrating what PETER saw about the Gentiles.

Now the big question is whose name did the Apostles actually proclaim before Gentiles?

The answer is the name of Jesus Christ

So how can Jehovah Witness claimed that the TRUE Christians SERVE as Jehovah's witness when in reality ALL the Apostles actually WITNESS of Jesus Christ and Not Jehovah?

Those who actually witnesses about Jesus:

1) The Father Himself: When reading the scriptures one thing that is very sure is that NOWHERE Jesus Himself witnesses about The Father rather it's The Father who WITNESSED about His Son, in fact the GREATEST witness is that of the Father;
*John 5:36-37 "But I have greater witness than [that] of John:..., And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me..."(KJV)
*John 8:18 "I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me."(KJV)
*1 John 5:9 "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. (KJV)

2) The Holyspirit: 1 John 5:6 "This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth." (KJV)
*Acts 5:32 "...and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." (KJV)

3) The Prophets: Acts 10:43 "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." (KJV)

4) The Apostles:[/b] *Acts 4:33 "And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all." (KJV)
*Acts 5:32 "And we are his witnesses of these things;..." (KJV)

5) John the Baptist: *John 1:7-8 "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe. He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light." (KJV)
*John 5:33 "Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth." (KJV)

6) Paul: Acts 23:11 "And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome." (KJV)

The list continues but one thing is very certain ALL the NT characters never witness of Jehovah instead they witnessed of Jesus Christ.

Dont use Jehovah to joke with a Jehovah witness

*sigh*

MzNelly:
*sigh*

Meaning

Emusan:
How true is the underlined statement?

The Bible verses that was given to read Acts 15:14 "Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name." and Acts 15:17 "That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things."(KJV)

I believe the purpose of referring to these verses is the underlined words "his name & my name" but what actually happen here?

Verse 13 indicates that it was JAMES who is narrating what PETER saw about the Gentiles.

Now the big question is whose name did the Apostles actually proclaim before Gentiles?

Why did you drift away from the line of explanation you are making about that Acts 15? Is this deliberate or you dont know the context?

First of all, the article you quoted shows that the Jews as a whole served as witnesses of Jehovah. This does not necessarily mean that the Israelites would go from house to house proclaiming Jehovah's name. The preaching as we know it today was largely copied from Jesus and his disciples. But whether they proclaim God's name or not, The Jews as a group were a testimony of Jehovah's godship. Isaiah 43:10-12

Jesus was a natural Jew, so he is a Jehovah's witness. Jesus did not come on earth of his own accord. The Father sent him in fulfillment of His promise. So Jesus bears witness that all God's promises will fulfill. When you proclaim Jesus, you are proclaiming God's means of salvation. That is a witness for God too. Jesus himself proclaimed God's name (john 17:6, 26). He also stated that he came in his Father's name. So he is a witness for God. Rev 1:5.

Secondly, God had always had witnesses for his name. God's name is so important that you cant ignore it and say you know God. In short this is a secret that many religionist are yet to understand.

The natural Israelites were God's name people, but they rejected His son, who served as His representative while on earth. But God had already uttered a prophesy that one day, He would form a new nation. That nation latter became the Israel of God, spiritual Israelites (Gal 6:16). Previously, God's name people never included uncircumcised gentiles. But in the first century CE, God made that possible.

In the book of Amos God had declared that he would bring about a new nation, which will now consist of the uncircumcised gentiles. This new nation, the Israel of God, are still God's name people. The account says "people who are called by my name". Whose name? Jehovah's.

Peter told about the witness God had made by given his holy spirit on the uncircumcised gentiles, which is strange, but which had proven that God had chosen this gentiles as among His people.

Now James recounted this testimony of Peter and added that this occurence which Peter stated is in line with God's prophesy through His prophet Amos. So the prophesy of Amos, which James quoted is still talking about God's name people. As a group this nation are witnesses of Jehovah, He created them for His name.

Peter adds to that truth:

1Pet. 2:9

But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies” of the One who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Peter here used a scripture that was applied to the natural Israelites and applied it to the spiritual Israelites. So the spiritual replaced the natural. God did not form this nation and now cease to have witnesses on earth. No. Rather, since the natural Israelites, there activities, there Law and its power proved to other nations that there God Jehovah is the greatest and the Almighty among other deities, the new nation's proclamation of Jesus and the kingdom is another phase in declaring the godship of Jehovah - his proves that he can redeem obedient mankind from sin and death. That thus will sanctify His name. They had to proclaim many things, one of which is that Jehovah raised Jesus as a means to redeem us. All these and more are witness about Jehovah.

In explaining the one to whom His excellences are to be declared according to that 1st Peter, Barne's note reports:

"It means here the excellences of God-His goodness, His wondrous deeds, or those things which make it proper to praise Him. This shows one great object for which they were redeemed. It was that they might proclaim the glory of God, and keep up the remembrance of His wondrous deeds in the earth. This is to be done:

(a) by proper ascriptions of praise to him in public, family, and social worship;
(b) by being always the avowed friends of God, ready ever to vindicate His government and ways;
(c) by endeavoring to make known His excellences to all those who are ignorant of Him; and
(d) by such a life as shall constantly proclaim His praise-as the sun, the moon, the stars, the hills, the streams, the flowers do, showing what God does. The consistent life of a devoted Christian is a constant setting forth of the praise of God, showing to all that the God who has made him such is worthy to be loved."

All those are witnessing about Jehovah. Witnessing about Jesus is just one act made possible by Jehovah, so that too is witnessing about Jehovah.

The answer is the name of Jesus Christ

So how can Jehovah Witness claimed that the TRUE Christians SERVE as Jehovah's witness when in reality ALL the Apostles actually WITNESS of Jesus Christ and Not Jehovah?

Those who actually witnesses about Jesus:

1) The Father Himself: When reading the scriptures one thing that is very sure is that NOWHERE Jesus Himself witnesses about The Father rather it's The Father who WITNESSED about His Son, in fact the GREATEST witness is that of the Father;
*John 5:36-37 "But I have greater witness than [that] of John:..., And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me..."(KJV)
*John 8:18 "I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me."(KJV)
*1 John 5:9 "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. (KJV)

2) The Holyspirit: 1 John 5:6 "This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth." (KJV)
*Acts 5:32 "...and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." (KJV)

3) The Prophets: Acts 10:43 "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." (KJV)

4) The Apostles:[/b] *Acts 4:33 "And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all." (KJV)
*Acts 5:32 "And we are his witnesses of these things;..." (KJV)

5) John the Baptist: *John 1:7-8 "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe. He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light." (KJV)
*John 5:33 "Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth." (KJV)

6) Paul: Acts 23:11 "And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome." (KJV)

The list continues but one thing is very certain ALL the NT characters never witness of Jehovah instead they witnessed of Jesus Christ.

JMAN05:
Why did you drift away from the line of explanation you are making about that Acts 15? Is this deliberate or you dont know the context?

I didn't know where you see me explaining anything, I only quote those verses and underlined the needful part.

First of all, the article you quoted shows that the Jews as a whole served as witnesses of Jehovah. This does not necessarily mean that the Israelites would go from house to house proclaiming Jehovah's name. But whether they proclaim God's name or not, The Jews as a group were a testimony of Jehovah's godship. Isaiah 43:10-12

The key point here is the underlined sentence "...were a testimony of Jehovah's GODSHIP"
You agree they were witness of Jehovah but ONLY a testimony for Jehovah's GODSHIP not for HIS NAME.

The preaching as we know it today was largely copied from Jesus and his disciples.

How can you say preaching as we know it today was LARGELY COPIED from Jesus and His disciples? was it copied or COMMANDED?

Jesus was a natural Jew, so he is a Jehovah's witness. Jesus did not come on earth of his own accord. The Father sent him in fulfillment of His promise. So Jesus bears witness that all God's promises will fulfill. Jesus himself proclaimed God's name (john 17:6, 26). He also stated that he came in his Father's name. So he is a witness for God. Rev 1:5.

Now witness of Jehovah has taken another meaning here to make Jesus fits into it.

When you proclaim Jesus, you are proclaiming God's means of salvation. That is a witness for God too.

See how you change the word just to continue spreading your false teaching "Proclaiming to Witness"
Now if proclaiming Jesus is equivalent to witness of God then ALL CHRISTIAN denominations are WITNESS OF JEHOVAH/Jehovah's witness, do you agree?

Secondly, God had always had witnesses for his name.

Can you provide scriptural evidence for this?

God's name is so important that you cant ignore it and say you know God. In short this is a secret that many religionist are yet to understand.

The secret JWs are also yet to understand is that the NAME of God has taken another dimension in the NT as "And in none other is there salvation: for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, wherein we must be saved." Acts 4:12

Here a NAME IS GIVEN, which name is that? Jesus Christ!
After all JWs has unknowingly said this name is also Jehovah since they applied Romans 10:13 to Jehovah

The natural Israelites were God's name people, but they rejected His son, who served as His representative while on earth. But God had already uttered a prophesy that one day, He would form a new nation. That nation latter became the Israel of God, spiritual Israelites (Gal 6:16). Previously, God's name people never included uncircumcised gentiles. But in the first century CE, God made that possible.

You're absolutely right.

In the book of Amos God had declared that he would bring about a new nation, which will now consist of the uncircumcised gentiles. This new nation, the Israel of God, are still God's name people. The account says "people who are called by my name". Whose name? Jehovah's.

Then whose name the Apostles witness to Gentiles? Jesus Christ!
Whose NAME are the believers being called today? CHRISTian,
This is even the key message of Jesus to Paul during Paul's encountered with Jesus Christ "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear MY NAME before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:" Acts 9:15

Please is there any contradiction here?
Here both NATURAL ISREAL and SPIRITUAL ISREAL are mentioned together.
I think what JWs failed to agree with is how the NT writers APPLIED everything in the OT to Jesus Christ and for Holyspirit to allow these writers to do so is enough message for a true believer.

Peter told about the witness God had made by given his holy spirit on the uncircumcised gentiles, which is strange, but which had proven that God had chosen this gentiles as among His people.

Now James recounted this testimony of Peter and added that this occurence which Peter stated is in line with God's prophesy through His prophet Amos. So the prophesy of Amos, which James quoted is still talking about God's name people. As a group this nation are witnesses of Jehovah, He created them for His name.

You're still right here.
Remember according to you witness of Jehovah simply means a testimony for Jehovah's GODSHIP which is totally different from witnessing to NAME.

Peter adds to that truth:

1Pet. 2:9

But you are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies” of the One who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.

Peter here used a scripture that was applied to the natural Israelites and applied it to the spiritual Israelites.

Ok!

So the spiritual replaced the natural. God did not form this nation and now cease to have witnesses on earth. No.

And did you know that in the process of replacing the spiritual with natural something happened which is Jesus Christ that ALL NT centred on.
The only witness on Earth now is the witness of Jesus Christ as He commanded "...and ye shall be MY witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." Acts 1:8

Show me just a single verse where THE APOSTLES WITNESS OF Jehovah.

Rather, since the natural Israelites, there activities, there Law and its power proved to other nations that there God Jehovah is the greatest and the Almighty among other deities, the new nation's proclamation of Jesus and the kingdom is another phase in declaring the godship of Jehovah - this proves that he can redeem obedient mankind from sin and death. That thus will sanctify His name. They had to proclaim many things, one of which is that Jehovah raised Jesus as a means to redeem us. All these and more are witness about Jehovah.

Again if proclaiming Jesus is also mean witness about Jehovah as you repeated it here, do you agree that ALL CHRISTIANS proclaiming Jesus Christ are Witness of Jehovah/Jehovah's witness?

All those are witnessing about Jehovah. Witnessing about Jesus is just one act made possible by Jehovah, so that too is witnessing about Jehovah.

Thank God you finally use the word WITNESS for Jesus, so are now ARE YOU WITNESSING FOR JESUS or JEHOVAH?
Another time you'll repeat this statement, now do you believe ALL CHISTIANS witness about Jesus? If Yes! then that makes THEM(Christians) Jehovah's witness too and what does your organization say about the rest of Christendom?

Emusan:

now do you believe ALL CHISTIANS witness about Jesus? If Yes! then that makes THEM(Christians) Jehovah's witness too and what does your organization say about the rest of Christendom?

Emusan don't you see the proverbial statement fulfilling in your case? "Jesus said to them: 'If you were blind, you would have no sin'. But now you say, 'we see'. Your sin remains." ~ John 9:41
You want to be called a Jehovah's Witness, but you refuse to acknowlegde Jehovah's Sovereignty(by words and deed). You do not accept the full distinction between Jehovah and Jesus.
You want to claim you witness about Jesus where you do not accept his main theme of teaching. For Jesus says: "I must also declare the good news of the Kingdom of God, to other cities because for this I was sent". Do you even know what the "Kingdom of God" is, not to talk of why it is a "good news"? Or do you imagine that by calling yourselves "Christians", you are Christians? "Not everyone saying to [Jesus], ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of [Jesus'] Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to [Jesus] in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then [Jesus] will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’"

Please don't derail this thread if you don't know what is all about.

AgricSalt:
Emusan don't you see the proverbial statement fulfilling in your case? "Jesus said to them: 'If you were blind, you would have no sin'. But now you say, 'we see'. Your sin remains." ~ John 9:41

So how does this one fulfil in my post?

You want to be called a Jehovah's Witness, [size=14pt]but you refuse to acknowlegde Jehovah's Sovereignty(by words and deed).[/size] You do not accept [size=14pt]the full distinction between Jehovah and Jesus.[/size]

Sorry to burst your ass, I DON'T WANT TO BE CALLED a Jehovah's WITNESS, read in between lines before you quote someone next time your brother said and I quote "Witness about Jesus is to witness about God" and I asked that question, so can you do me a favour by answering that question?

On the two bolded parts, can you kindly tell us here how those statements were true about me?

You want to claim you witness about Jesus where you do not accept his main theme of teaching. For Jesus says: "I must also declare the good news of the Kingdom of God, to other cities because for this I was sent".

Sorry again, I DON'T CLAIM TO WITNESS ABOUT JESUS but JESUS HIMSELF COMMANDED ALL HIS FOLLWERS TO WITNESS FOR HIM in which the Father Himself is a WITNESS FOR His Son, so I'm simply following the instruction of our Lord the question is do you follow the commandment of Jesus or not?

Do you even know what the "Kingdom of God" is, not to talk of why it is a "good news"?

No I don't! Please kindly tell me.

Or do you imagine that by calling yourselves "Christians", you are Christians?

I may not BUT AS LONG AS I WITNESS ABOUT Jesus and according to your brother I'M ALSO WITNESSING about God, true or false?

Do you also believe this may be true about you?

"Not everyone saying to [Jesus], ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of [Jesus'] Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to [Jesus] in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then [Jesus] will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’"

BUT ANY ONE WHO PROCLAIMED Jesus WITNESSES about JESUS and according to your brother it's still the same as WITNESS about God.

Emusan:


I didn't know where you see me explaining anything, I only quote those verses and underlined the needful part.



The key point here is the underlined sentence "...were a testimony of Jehovah's GODSHIP"
You agree they were witness of Jehovah but ONLY a testimony for Jehovah's GODSHIP not for HIS NAME.



How can you say preaching as we know it today was LARGELY COPIED from Jesus and His disciples? was it copied or COMMANDED?



Now witness of Jehovah has taken another meaning here to make Jesus fits into it.



See how you change the word just to continue spreading your false teaching "Proclaiming to Witness"
Now if proclaiming Jesus is equivalent to witness of God then ALL CHRISTIAN denominations are WITNESS OF JEHOVAH/Jehovah's witness, do you agree?



Can you provide scriptural evidence for this?



The secret JWs are also yet to understand is that the NAME of God has taken another dimension in the NT as "And in none other is there salvation: for neither is there any other name under heaven, that is given among men, wherein we must be saved." Acts 4:12

Here a NAME IS GIVEN, which name is that? Jesus Christ!
After all JWs has unknowingly said this name is also Jehovah since they applied Romans 10:13 to Jehovah



You're absolutely right.



Then whose name the Apostles witness to Gentiles? Jesus Christ!
Whose NAME are the believers being called today? CHRISTian,
This is even the key message of Jesus to Paul during Paul's encountered with Jesus Christ "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear MY NAME before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:" Acts 9:15

Please is there any contradiction here?
Here both NATURAL ISREAL and SPIRITUAL ISREAL are mentioned together.
I think what JWs failed to agree with is how the NT writers APPLIED everything in the OT to Jesus Christ and for Holyspirit to allow these writers to do so is enough message for a true believer.



You're still right here.
Remember according to you witness of Jehovah simply means a testimony for Jehovah's GODSHIP which is totally different from witnessing to NAME.



Ok!



And did you know that in the process of replacing the spiritual with natural something happened which is Jesus Christ that ALL NT centred on.
The only witness on Earth now is the witness of Jesus Christ as He commanded "...and ye shall be MY witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." Acts 1:8

Show me just a single verse where THE APOSTLES WITNESS OF Jehovah.



Again if proclaiming Jesus is also mean witness about Jehovah as you repeated it here, do you agree that ALL CHRISTIANS proclaiming Jesus Christ are Witness of Jehovah/Jehovah's witness?



Thank God you finally use the word WITNESS for Jesus, so are now ARE YOU WITNESSING FOR JESUS or JEHOVAH?
Another time you'll repeat this statement, now do you believe ALL CHISTIANS witness about Jesus? If Yes! then that makes THEM(Christians) Jehovah's witness too and what does your organization say about the rest of Christendom?

Your detaching my writeup out of context is hilarious. The reason for the post is to prove that the apostles were witnesses of Jehovah too.

I have also stated why the quotation the article made from that Acts 15 is not wrong. The spiritual replaced the natural and it retained its status as Jehovah's witnesses. It never ceased God from having witnesses.

As a group they were witnesses of Jehovah. there witnessing about Jesus being a part of that witness for Jehovah. He elevated Jesus to occupy a prominent position in the outworking of His purpose. Many miracles performed concerning this Jesus were God's work that need to be proclaimed.

I ve shown why Jesus is a witness of Jehovah both as a natural Jew, the head of the new nation and by his own teaching. compare Rev 1:5

Jehovah called them to declare His excellencies (1Pet. 2:9), part of which is witnessing about Jesus. JW's witness for Jehovah and Jesus. The former encompassing the latter.

That is the purpose of the thread. When you agree that the article was not in the wrong, you can now point out what you disagree with in the other points I made there.

BUT ANY ONE WHO PROCLAIMED Jesus WITNESSES about JESUS and according to your brother it's still the same as WITNESS about God.

Why are you circumventing his point?

That you proclaim Jesus doesnt make you a true Christian. False Christians are certainly not Witnesses of Jehovah. I ve not seen any of them that claim to be one anyway. How would they, when they dont know that the new nation is God's name people. Even if they claim they are, they are profess JW, not JWs.

JMAN05:


Why are you circumventing his point?

That you proclaim Jesus doesnt make you a true Christian. False Christians are certainly not Witnesses of Jehovah. I ve not seen any of them that claim to be one anyway. How would they, when they dont know that the new nation is God's name people. Even if they claim they are, they are profess JW, not JWs.

@JMAN05, did you not see that this Emusan of a man is seeking underseved attention from us?

AgricSalt:


@JMAN05, did you not see that this Emusan of a man is seeking underseved attention from us?

You are 100% right. I noticed it, so I stopped arguing with him. It does more harm than good- He is not open minded. He is avoids issues, make rigorous comment that adds nothing to the discussion/ he his a true evasive master. His is not Posting to learn anything from others but to confuse others with his brand of teachings while making a mockery of JW beliefs.

It seems his ambition is wicked. You can talk with him for many pages with no positive moment in the discussion- hence he is an attention seeker. Sometimes I wonder if he is an Apostates so that I can flee from him like I do that one that has "JWfacts.com".

To be a witness means to "testify to; give or afford evidence of" (dictionary.com). Thus a witness is "a person who proclaims views or truths of which he is convinced".

Jesus himself is a witness of Jehovah. He did or said nothing by his own power, but as he was instructed his Father, Jehovah.

John 6:38 - "For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me".

John 14:23,24: "Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me" .

Thus Jesus could pray thus to Jehovah, at John 17:25,26 - "O righteous Father, although the world has not known You, yet I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me; and I have made Your name known to them, and will make it known, so that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.""

Clearly, witnessing (proclaiming the truth) about Jesus Christ is actually witnessing about Jehovah, the one who sent him and is the head of the Christ (1 Cor. 11:3).

Jesus and the early apostles clearly understood that. Anyone who is humble and ready to drop false/confusing traditional beliefs, and peer into the bible would also.

RikoduoSennin:


You are 100% right. I noticed it, so I stopped arguing with him. It does more harm than good- He is not open minded. He is avoids issues, make rigorous comment that adds nothing to the discussion/ he his a true evasive master. His is not Posting to learn anything from others but to confuse others with his brand of teachings while making a mockery of JW beliefs.

It seems his ambition is wicked. You can talk with him for many pages with no positive moment in the discussion- hence he is an attention seeker. Sometimes I wonder if he is an Apostates so that I can flee from him like I do that one that has "JWfatcs.com".

I wanted to brand him apostate, but I see he does not even have a base. He just blabs.
That scripture I ascribed to him is what fits him. 'because he says he sees, he will remain blind' ~ John 9:41

JMAN05:
Your detaching my writeup out of context is hilarious. The reason for the post is to prove that the apostles were witnesses of [size=14pt]Jehovah too.[/size]

Please how did I detach your post out of context? I only reply your post quote by quote.
Funny of you, at the bolded part if that's what Watchtower claimed this thread won't have been opened but Watchtower claim was "True Christians SERVE as WITNESS of JEHOVAH but your post only showed that The Apostles were Witness of Jehovah TOO notice the word "TOO"

I have also stated why the quotation the article made from that Acts 15 is not wrong. The spiritual replaced the natural and it retained its status as Jehovah's witnesses. It never ceased God from having witnesses.

Neither do I claim that the quotation is wrong too but misapplication of that verse by JWs is my major concerns. This is not the only place where NT writer apply OT scripture to Jesus Christ, the purpose of quoting that verse was stressed out in their letter to the SAME GENTILE Acts 15:26 "men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.(NIV)

Since you said "It never ceased God from having witnesses." then just give me a SINGLE VERSE where any of the Apostles WITNESS of Jehovah, this is another time I'll ask for this.

[size=14pt]As a group they were witnesses of Jehovah.[/size] there they're witnessing about Jesus being a part of that witness for Jehovah. He elevated Jesus to occupy a prominent position in the outworking of His purpose. Many miracles performed concerning this Jesus were God's work that need to be proclaimed.

Please provide the scriptures for the bolded part if there's no scripture for it then I still take it as your own word to justify JWs claim.
Did they witness of Jesus or Jehovah? answer this and stop dancing around.

I ve shown why Jesus is a witness of Jehovah both as a natural Jew, the head of the new nation and by his own teaching. compare Rev 1:5

Still referring to Rev 1:5 as if it says Jesus is a witness of Jehovah whereas I gave verses where Jehovah Himself witness of Jesus.

Jehovah called them to declare His excellencies (1Pet. 2:9), part of which is witnessing about Jesus. JW's witness for Jehovah and Jesus. The former encompassing the latter.

The questions according to those verses are;
1. Whose name did the Apostles bear before the Gentiles? Jesus Christ!
2. Whose name were the NATURAL Israelite and SPIRITUAL Israelite (Gentiles) been called? It is Christian! because it was at Antioch (Gentile city) that the DESCIPLES were FIRST CALLED Christian which is the NAME we were been called till today not Jehovah's name unless if you want to tell me that the name Jehovah and Jesus Christ are the same.

That is the purpose of the thread. When you agree that the article was not in the wrong, you can now point out what you disagree with in the other points I made there.

The purpose of this thread is misinterpretation of Acts 15:14,17 by JWs that made the Faithful Apostles a FALSE CHRISTIANS because they never SERVE as witness of Jehovah but witness of Jesus Christ which were BOLDLY spelled out throughout the New Testament. Since this is true then the article was wrong.

AgricSalt:
I wanted to brand him apostate, but I see he does not even have a base. He just blabs.
That scripture I ascribed to him is what fits him. 'because he says he sees, he will remain blind' ~ John 9:41

You join this forum this year and you quickly want to brand someone an APOSTATE, don't worry you're welcome.

TroGunn:
To be a witness means to "testify to; give or afford evidence of" (dictionary.com). Thus a witness is "a person who proclaims views or truths of which he is convinced".

Jesus himself is a witness of Jehovah. He did or said nothing by his own power, but as he was instructed his Father, Jehovah.

John 6:38 - "For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me".

John 14:23,24: "Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me" .

Thus Jesus could pray thus to Jehovah, at John 17:25,26 - "O righteous Father, although the world has not known You, yet I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me; and I have made Your name known to them, and will make it known, so that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.""

Clearly, witnessing (proclaiming the truth) about Jesus Christ is actually witnessing about Jehovah, the one who sent him and is the head of the Christ (1 Cor. 11:3).

Jesus and the early apostles clearly understood that. Anyone who is humble and ready to drop false/confusing traditional beliefs, and peer into the bible would also.

The funny thing is after your own definition of WITNESS you still went ahead to go against it.

Please is "testify to; give or afford evidence of"" according to your dictionary the same as "He did or said nothing by his own power,"?

Now I will insert your meaning of WITNESS (testify to; give or afford evidence of) into my previous post on those who witness of Jesus Christ and you will do me a favour by providing equivalent word of it from Jesus Himself or the Apostles IN JUST A SINGLE VERSE without your caricature explanation.

1) The Father Himself: When reading the scriptures one thing that is very sure is that NOWHERE Jesus Himself witnesses about The Father rather it's The Father who WITNESSED about His Son, in fact the GREATEST witness is that of the Father;
*John 5:36-37 "But I have greater witness than [that] of John:..., And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath testify to; give or afford evidence of me..."(KJV)
*John 8:18 "I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me testify to; give or afford evidence of me."(KJV)
*1 John 5:9 "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the testify to; give or afford evidence of God which he hath testified of his Son. (KJV)

2) The Holyspirit: 1 John 5:6 "This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that testify to; give or afford evidence of, because the Spirit is truth." (KJV)
*Acts 5:32 "...and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." (KJV)

3) The Prophets: Acts 10:43 "To him give all the prophets testify to; give or afford evidence of, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." (KJV)

4) The Apostles:[/b] *Acts 4:33 "And with great power gave the apostles testify to; give or afford evidence of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all." (KJV)
*Acts 5:32 "And we are his testifier; given or afford evidence of these things;..." (KJV)

5) John the Baptist: *John 1:7-8 "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe. He was not that Light, but [was sent] to testify to; give or afford evidence of that Light." (KJV)
*John 5:33 "Ye sent unto John, and he testify to; give or afford evidence unto the truth." (KJV)

6) Paul: Acts 23:11 "And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou testify to; give or afford evidence of (me) also at Rome." (KJV)

Emusan:


You join this forum this year and you quickly want to brand someone an APOSTATE, don't worry you're welcome.

I did not join the world this year. Besides, I tap from the knowledge of my ever existing God - Jehovah, through His Word - the Bible, and His faithful and dynamic organisation on earth - the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, led by Christ Jesus - the King of Jehovah's soon coming Government.

If you want to learn more visit http://www.jw.org/en/

AgricSalt:
I did not join the world this year. Besides, I tap from the knowledge of my ever existing God - Jehovah, through His Word - the Bible, and His faithful and dynamic organisation on earth - the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses.

If you want to learn more visit http://www.jw.org/en/

You tapped from the knowledge of Jehovah yet you couldn't comprehend my posts.

Thank God that you said it yourself that YOUR organisation is DYNAMIC no wonder they keep changing their teaching.

Emusan:


Please how did I detach your post out of context? I only reply your post quote by quote.
Funny of you, at the bolded part if that's what Watchtower claimed this thread won't have been opened but Watchtower claim was "True Christians SERVE as WITNESS of JEHOVAH but your post only showed that The Apostles were Witness of Jehovah TOO notice the word "TOO"

We witness for Jah and Jesus too. Witnessing about Jehovah today involve speaking about what he did through His son. This son he elevated. how many times will I tell you that witnessing about Jesus is witnessing about Jehovah?

the article you quoted is speaking from a different context.

Neither do I claim that the quotation is wrong too but misapplication of that verse by JWs is my major concerns. This is not the only place where NT writer apply OT scripture to Jesus Christ, the purpose of quoting that verse was stressed out in their letter to the SAME GENTILE Acts 15:26 "men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.(NIV)

You poor scriptural understanding is a major problem I don't think I can help you out from.

The Bible Exposition Commentary states about that verse: "James called these gentiles 'a people for His [God's] name". this scholar and many more knew the verse is talking about God's name. only your childish understanding won't grasp it.

If you don't get it. please forget it. if you like believe the devil created you. that's your biz. you won't say no one told you.

Since you said "It never ceased God from having witnesses." then just give me a SINGLE VERSE where any of the Apostles WITNESS of Jehovah, this is another time I'll ask for this.

After telling the crowd how God poured out the spirit, how He raised Jesus and more, the account called it "thorough witness". Acts 2:39,40.

God stated he would raise his son from the dead. What prove does God have for this? the apostles were witnesses of this great work of God. acts 3:15

Please provide the scriptures for the bolded part if there's no scripture for it then I still take it as your own word to justify JWs claim.
Did they witness of Jesus or Jehovah? answer this and stop dancing around.

They are people for his name, they replaced the natural Israelites. the commentary above gave the same point.

What do you call people called to proclaim God's excellencies? 1Pet. 2:9

Still referring to Rev 1:5 as if it says Jesus is a witness of Jehovah whereas I gave verses where Jehovah Himself witness of Jesus.

Whose witness is he? Did he proclaim his message?

The questions according to those verses are;
1. Whose name did the Apostles bear before the Gentiles? Jesus Christ!
2. Whose name were the NATURAL Israelite and SPIRITUAL Israelite (Gentiles) been called? It is Christian! because it was at Antioch (Gentile city) that the DESCIPLES were FIRST CALLED Christian which is the NAME we were been called till today not Jehovah's name unless if you want to tell me that the name Jehovah and Jesus Christ are the same.

who elevated Jesus and gave him a great name? whose message did Jesus bear?

During Pentecost, the people were declaring the magnificent things of who? acts 2:11

what do you call that? weaknessing?

tomorrow you will start making noise you argued in nairaland. rubbish!

The purpose of this thread is misinterpretation of Acts 15:14,17 by JWs that made the Faithful Apostles a FALSE CHRISTIANS because they never SERVE as witness of Jehovah but witness of Jesus Christ which were BOLDLY spelled out throughout the New Testament. Since this is true then the article was wrong.

First do you agree that the Christian congregation was formed as God's name people?

2. When you proclaim someone's excellencies are you witnessing for Him?

3. Do you believe that Jesus powerful works and resurrection were all possible cos of God? Acts 2:22-24

4. Do you believe that proclaiming the magnificent things of God is a witness about God? Acts 2:11

Do you believe that what God did on the side of Jesus is among this magnificent thing?

JMAN05:
We witness for Jah and Jesus too. Witnessing about Jehovah today involve speaking about what he did through His son. This son he elevated. how many times will I tell you that witnessing about Jesus is witnessing about Jehovah?

But that statement read "True Christians SERVE as witness of Jehovah" (I'll add ONLY) which doesn't include Jesus which is different from your point.
How many times have I asked that if witness of Jesus means witness of Jehovah then do you agree that ALL Christians are WITNESS of Jehovah or Jehovah's witness?
Remember what you called witness of Jehovah "Witnessing about Jehovah today involve speaking about what he did through His son."

the article you quoted is speaking from a different context.

So what is the context does it speaking about?

You poor scriptural understanding is a major problem I don't think I can help you out from.

Lolzzz the above statement so fits you like cloth

The Bible Exposition Commentary states about that verse: "James called these gentiles 'a people for His [God's] name". this scholar and many more knew the verse is talking about God's name. only your childish understanding won't grasp it.

I know you purposely inserted 'God's' there but the point is not THE QUOTATION OF OT by James The point is WHO DID James HAVE IN MIND Before QUOTING from OT? This is the vital point I see you missing from this thread. Jesus Himself told Paul that he will bear HIS NAME before gentiles and the believers belong to Jesus.

If you don't get it. please forget it. if you like believe the devil created you. that's your biz. you won't say no one told you.

Lolzzz talking out of frustration.

After telling the crowd how God poured out the spirit, how He raised Jesus and more, the account called it "thorough witness". Acts 2:39,40.

God stated he would raise his son from the dead. What prove does God have for this? the apostles were witnesses of this great work of God. acts 3:15

And you believe that The PRINCE of LIFE of Acts 3:15 can die...

See how you keep confusing issue, let me bring out the point the Blessed Apostles were making when they say God raised Christ from Christ own word "and said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. Luke 24:46-48 RSV

In fact Jesus Himself said here it is through HIS NAME NOT JEHOVAH that people will be going from place to place as a result of what have been written.
Though it's still through the WORK of God that Christ resurrected in a sense that to unbeliever someone who they knew AS HUMAN BEING can't rise from dead without divine intervention but from scriptures God raised Christ and Christ raised Himself.

So the Apostles were only talking about the LIVING CHRIST which is no more in GRAVE.

They are people for his name, they replaced the natural Israelites. the commentary above gave the same point.

And I then asked whose NAME are we being called today? why simple question is so difficult for you to answer

What do you call people called to proclaim God's excellencies? 1Pet. 2:9

Please show me from any translation where the phrase [b]God's excellences appear in 1 Peter 2:9 what was written there is the excellences of the "ONE WHO CALLED YOU OUT..." the question now is who called US? the Bible made answer it both God and Jesus Christ called US.

Whose witness is he? Did he proclaim his message?

Lolzzz Witness of Himself.

He proclaimed the message of His Father and His own.

who elevated Jesus and gave him a great name?

The Father

But my question is, WHOSE NAME DID THE APOSTLE BEAR BEFORE GENTILES?
Did Jesus lie when He said Paul will bear HIS NAME before the Gentiles?

whose message did Jesus bear?

At least it is message not NAME, see above answer

During Pentecost, the people were declaring the magnificent things of who? acts 2:11

God or do you want them to declare the things of MAN before.

what do you call that? weaknessing? tomorrow you will start making noise you argued in nairaland. rubbish!

Lolzzzz it pains you sorry ooo

First do you agree that the Christian congregation was formed as God's name people?

YES because Jesus is God

2. When you proclaim someone's excellencies are you witnessing for Him?

Proclaiming excellences is different from witnessing
According to JWs A witness is a person who proclaims views or truth of which he is CONVINCED. (Bold and capital mine)
www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/name-jehovahs-witnesses/

Please how does this definition fit the mixing up of your proclaiming excellences with witnessing

3. Do you believe that Jesus powerful works and resurrection were all possible cos of God? Acts 2:22-24

I do and at the same time don't forget the Son can do whatever the Father does.

4. Do you believe that proclaiming the magnificent things of God is a witness about God? Acts 2:11

Yes and that makes us all Christians witnesses of God, do you agree?

Do you believe that what God did on the side of Jesus is among this magnificent thing?

I do,
NOTE: All these your human terminologies won't save you unless you embrace the sovereign Word of God over your own by simply agree that Jehovah never commanded anyone to witness for Him rather it is Jesus who made the COMMANDMENT and all the Apostles including the FATHER Himself bear witness of Jesus.

Please kindly provide answers to my questions the way I did to yours here.

JW is a literature group founded on religious heresy, and hinges its message on a particular Bible translation that is massively distorted. Listen to those sleek liars and put your salvation in jeopardy.

CounsellorWise:

JW is a literature group founded on religious heresy, and hinges its message on a particular Bible translation that is massively distorted. Listen to those sleek liars and put your salvation in jeopardy.

You know nothing about JW organisation yet you claim to know. Clues: "JW is a literature group", "Founded on religious heresy", "hinges its message on a particular bible translation", "massively distorted bible translation". These phrase are proof that you know little about JW organisation.

Key: JW is more than JUST a literature group. You are not familiar with their early history. Members reference other bible translation but because of unified teaching-one translation is used (Jehovah is not a God of disorder). You have not personally compare different translations with NWT, neither have you read the prologue/appendix to these bible translations. Research from both side before you make conclusion- one sided opinion is flawed. Try to understand why JW says what they say @ JW.ORG

RikoduoSennin:


You know nothing about JW organisation yet you claim to know. Clues: "JW is a literature group", "Founded on religious heresy", "hinges its message on a particular bible translation", "massively distorted bible translation". These phrase are proof that you know little about JW organisation.

Key: JW is more than JUST a literature group. You are not familiar with their early history. Members reference other bible translation but because of unified teaching-one translation is used (Jehovah is not a God of disorder). You have not personally compare different translations with NWT, neither have you read the prologue/appendix to these bible translations. Research from both side before you make conclusion- one sided opinion is flawed. Try to understand why JW says what they say @ JW.ORG

JW is a false religious group!!!!!!

Emusan:


But that statement read "True Christians SERVE as witness of Jehovah" (I'll add ONLY) which doesn't include Jesus which is different from your point.
How many times have I asked that if witness of Jesus means witness of Jehovah then do you agree that ALL Christians are WITNESS of Jehovah or Jehovah's witness?
Remember what you called witness of Jehovah "Witnessing about Jehovah today involve speaking about what he did through His son."

All true Christians are witnesses of Jehovah.

Do you yourself agree with that?

So what is the context does it speaking about?

Go read that article from beginning.

I know you purposely inserted 'God's' there but the point is not THE QUOTATION OF OT by James The point is WHO DID James HAVE IN MIND Before QUOTING from OT? This is the vital point I see you missing from this thread. Jesus Himself told Paul that he will bear HIS NAME before gentiles and the believers belong to Jesus.

You think am like you? I have said here that your understanding is poor, that's why you couldn't understand that the context clearly is talking about God. Or you simply are not being frank to yourself.

That was exactly what Christ says, and am telling you that witnessing about Jesus is witnessing about Jesus. About the wonderful things God did through Jesus.

God elevated that name Jesus. He couldnt tell them to bear his Father's name cos they are His witnesses as far as they be replaced those who had that privilege. Even as a natural Jew, they were Jehovah's witnesses.

Lolzzz talking out of frustration.

No. Out of anger over your deliberate blindness.

And you believe that The PRINCE of LIFE of Acts 3:15 can die...

Do you rather believe the scripture when it says in that verse "kill" and "dead"?

The point is that Jesus death and resurrection are God's work. So bearing witness to it is bearing witness to God.

See how you keep confusing issue, let me bring out the point the Blessed Apostles were making when they say God raised Christ from Christ own word "and said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. Luke 24:46-48 RSV

In fact Jesus Himself said here it is through HIS NAME NOT JEHOVAH that people will be going from place to place as a result of what have been written.
Though it's still through the WORK of God that Christ resurrected in a sense that to unbeliever someone who they knew AS HUMAN BEING can't rise from dead without divine intervention but from scriptures God raised Christ and Christ raised Himself.

So the Apostles were only talking about the LIVING CHRIST which is no more in GRAVE.

You ignored the point of my comment.

Peter made mention of so many things God did in the life of Jesus, and the scriptures include all that as the "thorough WITNESS" Peter bored. That is one prove of witness about God you dispute.

The Luke you quoted is in no way against the fact that God raise Jesus Christ. Point of correction, from the scripture God raised Jesus. Acts 3:15.

That Luke said it was "written" that Christ will die and be raised.

Who inspired that prophesy that was written?

Peter acknowledged that God was the one who really raised Jesus. That was Peter's point. In this, the prophets agree (hos 6:1, 2).

And I then asked whose NAME are we being called today? why simple question is so difficult for you to answer

Christians mostly, and The Way.

And as we bear witness about Jesus, we bear witness for the One who sent him forth, whose delight Jesus will make have success. Isai 53:10

Please show me from any translation where the phrase [b]God's excellences appear in 1 Peter 2:9 what was written there is the excellences of the "ONE WHO CALLED YOU OUT..." the question now is who called US? the Bible made answer it both God and Jesus Christ called US.

Oga that is a paraphrase. Nawa o.

From the context, it was God Peter had in mind. He was in fact using a scripture applied to natural Israelites and applied it to the new nation. Barne's note I showed you made the same point.

Jesus is spoken of as calling, but these are people whom God want to be called. John 6:44

The one who ultimately call believers is thus, Jehovah.

Lolzzz Witness of Himself.

He proclaimed the message of His Father and His own.

Jesus stated that he cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, he does what his Father taught him to do. He is a son well tutored by his Father. John 8:28
God gave him a command that Jesus stuck to. John 14:31

He confesses, "what I teach is not mine". John 7:16

So all in all, everything has always been to the glory of Jehovah.

The Father

But my question is, WHOSE NAME DID THE APOSTLE BEAR BEFORE GENTILES?
Did Jesus lie when He said Paul will bear HIS NAME before the Gentiles?

Of course, true Christians bear Jesus name. Since Jehovah who they witness his name had elevated Jesus name, He procures His glory through that name too. God gave Jesus great privileges. But all is to His glory.

At least it is message not NAME, see above answer

That message included making his Father's name known. John 17:6, 26

God or do you want them to declare the things of MAN before.

Thank God you know that one.

YES because Jesus is God

I take the yes part. I wonder what you are still arguing.

Proclaiming excellences is different from witnessing
According to JWs A witness is a person who proclaims views or truth of which he is CONVINCED. (Bold and capital mine)
www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/name-jehovahs-witnesses/

Please how does this definition fit the mixing up of your proclaiming excellences with witnessing

Was Peter convinced that God performed powerful works through Jesus? Is Paul convinced that God created the world?

When they proclaim these, what do you call them?

Consult the Barnes note I gave you for further explanation of what is involved in declaring excellences as used in that verse. If what should be done there is out of conviction, then fix up your question.

I do and at the same time don't forget the Son can do whatever the Father does.

Know when the end will come? No.

But the Father can grant him many privileges cos He loves him. John 5:20. But the Father never granted him power to do all He does.

What his Father did not teach him, he won't do. John 7:28

Yes and that makes us all Christians witnesses of God, do you agree?

Witnesses of Jehovah. Please add "true" Christians.

I do,
NOTE: All these your human terminologies won't save you unless you embrace the sovereign Word of God over your own by simply agree that Jehovah never commanded anyone to witness for Him rather it is Jesus who made the COMMANDMENT and all the Apostles including the FATHER Himself bear witness of Jesus.

Please kindly provide answers to my questions the way I did to yours here.

A natural Israelite like Jesus and his apostle need not be reminded of what they are as a nation.

Since they declare the work of Jehovah as performed in Jesus, they are fulfilling the work of witnesses of Jehovah. Of course, Peter used the word applied to Jehovah's witnesses upon them. Showing they now bear that name the natural Jew bore. They are also God's name people.

I think we have achieved the purpose of the thread

CounsellorWise:


JW is a false religious group!!!!!!

They are not.

I hope that is just reasonable!

JMAN05:
All true Christians are witnesses of Jehovah.

Do you yourself agree with that?

Ok let me agree with it but my question now is WHO ARE THE TRUE CHRISTIANS according to the scriptures?

Go read that article from beginning.

And you think I didn't do this before I opened this thread.

You think am like you? I have said here that your understanding is poor, that's why you couldn't understand that the context clearly is talking about God. Or you simply are not being frank to yourself.

Why will you insert YOUR OWN word when the author didn't do so and you couldn't indicate that it's your word?

That was exactly what Christ says, [size=14pt]and am telling you that witnessing about Jesus is witnessing about Jesus.[/size] About the wonderful things God did through Jesus.

Are you serious about the bolded part, confused or mistaken?

God elevated that name Jesus. [size=14pt]He couldn't tell them to bear his Father's name cos they are His witnesses as far as they be replaced those who had that privilege.[/size] Even as a natural Jew, they were Jehovah's witnesses.

@bolded-In fact I have to give up here for your double standard point.

This is the question from my point you replied to

"the point is not THE QUOTATION OF OT by James The point is WHO DID James HAVE IN MIND Before QUOTING from OT?

Whose name will the gentiles bear according to the verses you've been quoting since?

Here are the verses we are talking about "14 Symeon hath rehearsed how first God visited the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.,... 17 That the residue of men may seek after the Lord, And all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called,

So according to you James sited from OT which is talking about the Jehovah and from here both HIS NAME & MY NAME mean Jehovah's name WHICH IS THE BASIS for JWs to claim that TRUE CHRISTIANS are also witness of Jehovah since they (True Christians) as a spiritual Israelite now replaced the natural Israelite.

So going by your analogy and explanation of those verses the TRUE CHRISTIANS supposed to BEAR THE NAME of the FATHER (which you called Jehovah) NOT THE EXALTED NAME OF the Lord Jesus Christ, now you're speaking from other side of your mouth that He couldn't tell them TO BEAR HIS FATHER'S NAME. So now that He couldn't say so, why ARE YOU CALLING YOURSELF Jehovah's Witness?

In fact this is the bone of my contention that JWs have MISINTERPRETED these verses which is evident from your post.

The fact is James quoted those verses to buttress his point of how the OT prophecies find its fulfilment in Jesus Christ which is also the reason why Jesus can tell Paul that he will BEAR HIS NAME before the Gentiles.

Now your gross misunderstanding of the scriptures is plainly opened to you.

just SMH...

No. Out of anger over your deliberate blindness.

Do you rather believe the scripture when it says in that verse "kill" and "dead"?

The point is that Jesus death and resurrection are God's work. So bearing witness to it is bearing witness to God.



You ignored the point of my comment.

Peter made mention of so many things God did in the life of Jesus, and the scriptures include all that as the "thorough WITNESS" Peter bored. That is one prove of witness about God you dispute.

The Luke you quoted is in no way against the fact that God raise Jesus Christ. Point of correction, from the scripture God raised Jesus. Acts 3:15.

That Luke said it was "written" that Christ will die and be raised.

Who inspired that prophesy that was written?

Peter acknowledged that God was the one who really raised Jesus. That was Peter's point. In this, the prophets agree (hos 6:1, 2).



Christians mostly, and The Way.

And as we bear witness about Jesus, we bear witness for the One who sent him forth, whose delight Jesus will make have success. Isai 53:10



Oga that is a paraphrase. Nawa o.

From the context, it was God Peter had in mind. He was in fact using a scripture applied to natural Israelites and applied it to the new nation. Barne's note I showed you made the same point.

Jesus is spoken of as calling, but these are people whom God want to be called. John 6:44

The one who ultimately call believers is thus, Jehovah.



Jesus stated that he cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, he does what his Father taught him to do. He is a son well tutored by his Father. John 8:28
God gave him a command that Jesus stuck to. John 14:31

He confesses, "what I teach is not mine". John 7:16

So all in all, everything has always been to the glory of Jehovah.



Of course, true Christians bear Jesus name. Since Jehovah who they witness his name had elevated Jesus name, He procures His glory through that name too. God gave Jesus great privileges. But all is to His glory.



That message included making his Father's name known. John 17:6, 26



Thank God you know that one.



I take the yes part. I wonder what you are still arguing.



Was Peter convinced that God performed powerful works through Jesus? Is Paul convinced that God created the world?

When they proclaim these, what do you call them?

Consult the Barnes note I gave you for further explanation of what is involved in declaring excellences as used in that verse. If what should be done there is out of conviction, then fix up your question.



Know when the end will come? No.

But the Father can grant him many privileges cos He loves him. John 5:20. But the Father never granted him power to do all He does.

What his Father did not teach him, he won't do. John 7:28



Witnesses of Jehovah. Please add "true" Christians.



A natural Israelite like Jesus and his apostle need not be reminded of what they are as a nation.

Since they declare the work of Jehovah as performed in Jesus, they are fulfilling the work of witnesses of Jehovah. Of course, Peter used the word applied to Jehovah's witnesses upon them. Showing they now bear that name the natural Jew bore. They are also God's name people.

I think we have achieved the purpose of the thread

You statement above made my tired of replying your next post because it evident that you don't know what you're saying.

RikoduoSennin:
Key: JW is more than JUST a literature group. You are not familiar with their early history. Members reference other bible translation but because of unified teaching-one translation is used (Jehovah is not a God of disorder). Try to understand why JW says what they say @ JW.ORG

@bolded-because of this unified teaching how many Greek scholars participated and approved the ONLY translation that JWs used?

I care to know...

You have not personally compare different translations with NWT, neither have you read the prologue/appendix to these bible translations. Research from both side before you make conclusion- one sided opinion is flawed.

I believe this statement is a joke because we do compare many TRANSLATIONS with NWT and the differences are so glaring and also we do know what Greek scholars say about the NWT in fact the most astonish part is the Dr. M. Mertzger Bruce whom JWs always cited as a prove, see what Bruce says about NWT;

"Far more pernicious in this same verse is the rendering, “… and the Word was a god,” with the following footnote: “‘A god.’ In contrast with ‘the God.’” It must be stated quite frankly that, if the Jehovah’s Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheists. In view of the additional light which is available during this age of Grace, such a representation is even more reprehensible than were the heathenish, polytheistic errors into which ancient Israel was so prone to fall." Erroneous Translations pt 1, A Biblical and Theological Appraisal By Bruce M. Metzger
http://www.bible-researcher.com/metzger.jw.html

CounsellorWise:


JW is a false religious group!!!!!!

Hahahahaha........

Well, that is just your opinion now or what you were lead to believe.

Give it time, your views about JW ORG WILL change one way or another.

Emusan:


@bolded-because of this unified teaching how many Greek scholars participated and approved the ONLY translation that JWs used?

I care to know...

REASON WHY EACH DENOMINATION SHOULD USE ONE BIBLE TRANSLATION AS STANDARD:
In a typical church service, members have different translations of the bible hence no unified teaching/understanding. So if a religious group sticks to one Translation let's say New English Version, much is achieved teaching wise.

Greek Scholars? What of Hebrew Scholars? Or Is there no error in Hebrew section of NWT?

WHY DID JW NOT USE PREVIOUS EXISTING BIBLE TRANSLATION AS A STANDARD?
Read the prologue of NWT: Hints-- Original bible manuscript exist and other English translations exist prior to the publishing of NWT, but these translations stray from these original bible manuscript eg (1) God's name YHWH was removed from most passages it existed originally- Some bible only has it appearing four times. (2) Translators use "Cross" to represent where Jesus died which is wrong (3) Some translations add passages or books to the original manuscript- they added materials from questionable sources to the bible.

To cut through all that, a honest translation need to be made which is NWT.

NWT did not come from nowhere- it has a SOURCE MATERIAL- Research that!

Emusan:

I believe this statement is a joke because we do compare many TRANSLATIONS with NWT and the differences are so glaring and also we do know what Greek scholars say about the NWT in fact the most astonish part is the Dr. M. Mertzger Bruce whom JWs always cited as a prove, see what Bruce says about NWT;



"Far more pernicious in this same verse is the rendering, “… and the Word was a god,” with the following footnote: “‘A god.’ In contrast with ‘the God.’” It must be stated quite frankly that, if the Jehovah’s Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheists. In view of the additional light which is available during this age of Grace, such a representation is even more reprehensible than were the heathenish, polytheistic errors into which ancient Israel was so prone to fall." Erroneous Translations pt 1, A Biblical and Theological Appraisal By Bruce M. Metzger
http://www.bible-researcher.com/metzger.jw.html

Glaring difference? Really? JW still send the truth across to others even with their own personal bible! In fact, average of 1 new congregations every 3 days is not bad progress growth in Nigeria.

I have never heard about "Dr. M. Mertzger Bruce" till now.

I see, your major concern is John 1:1. It is true that going by Greek to English interlinear translation that John 1:1 says "The word was God" but NWT choose to use "and the word was 'a' god".

You are asking Why would they include the article 'A' and used small letter 'g'? Answer: Because NWT makes the true meaning of that verse stand out- the bible should not be cryptic.

That Doctor is very wrong in his analysis- Ancient Isreal believe in ONLY ONE GOD and so does JW. Claiming 3 in 1 God is Polytheistic. "A printer which only prints and a Printer which prints, Photocopy and Scans are not the same thing"

If you say NWT is wrong to add the definite article "A" to the original Greek, then every bible translation in existence is wrong because they also added some additional phrase to the original greek to make it readeable! Some are more wrong to removed YHWH and replace it with titles such as God and Lord when such were not originally there. Some are wrong to replace the word "Tree" with "Cross" in the bible too.

The Blame Game does not benefit anyone.

RikoduoSennin:


Hahahahaha........

Well, that is just your opinion now or what we were lead to believe.

Give it time, your views about JW ORG WILL change one way or another.

JW is false and will remain false until JESUS' Second Coming. No one made me believe that dude. You aren't talking to a child.

CounsellorWise:


JW is false and will remain false until JESUS' Second Coming. No one made me believe that dude. You aren't talking to a child.

Yes, you are not a child, but Even Adults can be lead to believe what is False eg How Old was Aaron when peer pressure made him sin against God by making a golden Calf?

We are shaped by the TRAINING we receive, things we are EXPOSED to and our REASONING capability. Infact, Training and Exposure shapes our Reasoning.

Please give reasons why You believe JW is a False religion- use bible as your guide for identifying false religion.