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Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by CAPTIVATOR: 2:27pm On Mar 08, 2015 |
Emusan Lets examine ur claim on the bible verse given ( Act 15: 14, 17) - Verse 14 said its God who turned his attention to the nations to bring out a people for his name ! Which clearly refer to Jehovah God - Didnt you see that Verse 15 - 17 is a DIRECT QUOTATION from Amos 9:11,12 WHERE THE NAME " JEHOVAH " appears ? .NOT the fabricated " LORD" concept subtituted by human tradition into most bibles. - INTERESTINGLY, during the event narrated by James which actually Happened to Peter, peter makes it clear that the apostles are ' WITNESSES APPOINTED BY JEHOVAH GOD , who raised Jesus from the dead' Act 10:40,41 |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by paulGrundy(m): 4:01pm On Mar 08, 2015 |
Emusan: They are trying to reinforce the notion that salvation comes only through Jehovahs witness organization on their members. |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by Nobody: 7:37pm On Mar 08, 2015 |
Emusan: Better. This can help: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102005145 And you think I didn't do this before I opened this thread. What did you understand then? Why will you insert YOUR OWN word when the author didn't do so and you couldn't indicate that it's your word? Where did I insert my word? Do you think am you who inserts word? Are you serious about the bolded part, confused or mistaken? You should know it is a mistake even without being told, just like your corvered was. @bolded-In fact I have to give up here for your double standard point. Since they were already Jehovah's witnesses, there is no need of reminding them that as if that status began that era. This is the question from my point you replied to Why will he say what they were already? Why will he tell them they will bear his Father's name? There is simply no need for that. The ancient Israelites to which they belonged were Jehovah's witnesses, bearing Jehovah's name. Why say, you will bear my Father's name? they bore it already. And as they replaced the natural Israelites, they took up the status borne by that nation. Peter applied a scripture used for this nation of God on this newly established nation. They knew for sure that they were witnesses of Jehovah. As I keep implying, the witness for God came to include the bearing witness to His son. Those were the work of God to which the apostles were to declare. If the ancient Jews had accepted Jesus as a nation, they, as a whole will bear witness about Jesus. There status as JWs wont changed. It would have been the same, but there witnessing about God would include something more. Why is this point too hard for you? I have also shown you a commentary that still buttress the same point I do on that Acts 15. Again: It must have startled the Judaizers when James called these saved Gentiles "a people for His [God's) name," because for centuries the Jews had carried that honorable title (see Deut 7:6; 14:2; 28:10). from The Bible Exposition Commentary. Could it be that you cant at your level study and understand the bible? In fact this is the bone of my contention that JWs have MISINTERPRETED these verses which is evident from your post. Nope! You rather have a hard time understanding the bible. Improve your bible study. God gave Jesus that privilege to have His witnesses bear his[Jesus] name. That is the way God wants it, the way He wants his witnesses to now operate. By doing so, they are fulfilling there role as Jehovah's witnesses. It was Jehovah who even appointed them as witnesses oF Jesus. My brother, CAPTIVATOR made an interesting point. I quote him. Peter makes it clear that the apostles are ' WITNESSES APPOINTED BY JEHOVAH GOD , who raised Jesus from the dead' Act 10:40,41 You statement above made my tired of replying your next post because it evident that you don't know what you're saying. Please answer them. If not, when you make comment that relates to any of them, I will bring all those comments back for you to reply. |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by ladon1: 7:47pm On Mar 08, 2015 |
Please Jehovah witness in the house, i have a question for you. Is there any difference between the name of Jehovah and the nane of Jesus Christ. |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by ladon1: 7:47pm On Mar 08, 2015 |
Please Jehovah witness in the house, i have a question for you. Is there any difference between the name of Jehovah and the name of Jesus Christ. |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by firestar(f): 7:54pm On Mar 08, 2015 |
ladon1: Jehovah God. Jesus Christ. ... What interests me is what you have found out. ... (Awaiting your reply) I mean, your personal findings of this difference you seek. Do you care to share ladon1? |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by Nobody: 8:07pm On Mar 08, 2015 |
ladon1: Matt 6:9 In that portion, whom do you think Jesus was referring to? Where is He? Is that person Jesus? Dont you think that this One's name is different from Jesus'? |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by ladon1: 8:48pm On Mar 08, 2015 |
Well he was referrring to the father but you havn't answered my question. Let me make it more clear to you. Mathew 28:19. The words of Jesus. Baptizing them in the name of the father, and of the son, and of the holy spirit. Can you please explain according to this scriptural verse what is the name of the father, what is the name if the son and what is the name of the holy spirit. Then if there is different in them, kindly let me know with scriptural proof. |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by ladon1: 10:13pm On Mar 08, 2015 |
firestar:Yes i have my findings and would like to share but not untili Jehovah witness in the house answer my questions first. |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by Emusan(m): 8:52am On Mar 09, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR: Read the conversation between your brother and I we have dealt with this so don't take us back to Egypt. - INTERESTINGLY, during the event narrated by James which actually Happened to Peter, peter makes it clear that the apostles are ' WITNESSES APPOINTED BY JEHOVAH GOD , who raised Jesus from the dead' Act 10:40,41 Then this proves that Jesus is Jehovah God because Jesus is the one choses and COMMADED those to witness about Him. Before you derail this thread the point is Acts 15 where James quoted OT scriptures and applied them to GENTILES. |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by ladon1: 9:32am On Mar 09, 2015 |
Emusan:Its a terrible thing that someone that claimed to be a christian, that claimed Christ has been revealed to him will deny that Jesus not = Jehovah. Its really laughable. If Jesus christ is not Jehovah, then he cannot save because only Jehovah can save. |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by CAPTIVATOR: 9:40am On Mar 09, 2015 |
Emusan: OFFSIDE Acording to Act 10:40,41 - who was raised from the dead ? Jesus - Who raise Jesus from the dead ? Jehovah God - Who APPOINTED the apostles as witnesses ? JEHOVAH GOD - When Did God appoint the apostles as witnesses ? Beforehand , earlier |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by Nobody: 2:58pm On Mar 09, 2015 |
ladon1: Only Jehovah saves. He only elevated Jesus name, so tht he can obtain glory through that name. Jesus did not occupy tht status from inception. Abraham didnt know Jesus not to talk of believing in his name. If you are sincere, this issue is as simply as ABCD. Jehovah's name on the other hand do not need elevation. He is innately the Almighty. It is a name that prechristian servants of God needed to believe in to and His promises to be saved. This matter dos not deserve long discussion abeg. |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by CAPTIVATOR: 3:16pm On Mar 09, 2015 |
ladon1: ONLY Jehovah saves . BUT DO u agree he can use other people to Perform the task of saviour ? ' Jehovah raised up a SAVIOR to rescue the isrealites, Othniel the son of Kenaz' Judges 3:9 . See another . ' So Jehovah raise up for them a SAVIOR, Ehud the son of Gera' Judges 3: 15 Finally " Father has sent his son as SAVIOR of the world" 1 joh 4:14 Thats the point 3 Likes |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by RikoduoSennin(m): 6:55pm On Mar 09, 2015 |
CAPTIVATOR: KUDOS to your insight. |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by Nobody: 10:45pm On Mar 09, 2015 |
ladon1: When people come to an accurate knowledge of God and want to serve him, they are baptized “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit.” ( Matthew 28:19 ) They understand and accept the authority of Jehovah and the role of Jesus Christ in the outworking of Jehovah’s purpose. (Psalm 83:18; Matthew 28:18 ) They also comprehend the function and activity of God’s holy spirit, which is his active force.— Genesis 1:2; Galatians 5:22, 23; 2 Peter 1:21 . Since Jesus stated that all authority has been GIVEN to him. Have u ever wondered who gave him that authority? Can the almighty be given an authority? 1 Like |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by Emusan(m): 12:27pm On Mar 12, 2015 |
JMAN05: Don't give me human reasoning give me from the Bible. What did you understand then? What we are discussing here. Where did I insert my word? Do you think am you who inserts word? Ok You should know it is a mistake even without being told, just like your corvered was. Ok Since they were already Jehovah's witnesses, there is no need of reminding them that as if that status began that era. You've mixed everything up, who is reminding here? James quoted from OT and you agree that the quote was referring to the GENTILES which are WITNESS OF JEHOVAH according to you. Now the verses say this gentiles are CALLED by God's NAME which you believe made them Witness of Jehovah, so WHICH NAME ARE THE GENTILES BEING CALLED today and WHICH NAME DID APOSTLES BEAR BEFORE THE GENTILES is my point? Why will he say what they were already? Why will he tell them they will bear his Father's name? There is simply no need for that. The ancient Israelites to which they belonged were Jehovah's witnesses, bearing Jehovah's name. Why say, you will bear my Father's name? they bore it already. And as they replaced the natural Israelites, they took up the status borne by that nation. Peter applied a scripture used for this nation of God on this newly established nation. They knew for sure that they were witnesses of Jehovah. Who is HE in this your post? When they knew that they were witness of Jehovah why would they accept being CALLED CHRISTian? As I keep implying, the witness for God came to include the bearing witness to His son. Those were the work of God to which the apostles were to declare. [size=14pt]If the ancient Jews had accepted Jesus as a nation, they, as a whole will bear witness about Jesus.[/size] There status as JWs wont changed. [size=14pt]It would have been the same, but there witnessing about God would include something more.[/size] Why is this point too hard for you? You hit the nail on head @underlined though not that it would include something more but TAKING ANOTHER SHAPE which is the essence of this thread, when JAMES quoted those verses HE APPLIED IT TO JESUS not just taking them for nothing. Which was further reinforced in their LETTER to the same Gentiles "men that have hazarded their lives for THE NAME of our Lord Jesus Christ." Acts 15:26 (CAPITAL mine), ASV I have also shown you a commentary that still buttress the same point I do on that Acts 15. Again: Since you believe in Bible commentary let me quote some commentary about Acts 15 from different scholars "This quotation is not made literally either from the Hebrew or the Septuagint, which differs also from the Hebrew. The 17th verse is quoted literally from the Septuagint; but in the 16th the general sense only of the passage is retained. [size=14pt]The main point of the quotation, as made by James, was to show that, according to the prophets, it was contemplated that the Gentiles should be introduced to the privileges of the children of God;[/size] and on this point the passage has a direct bearing." Albert Barnes' "As St. James quoted them as a prophecy of the calling of the Gentiles into the Church of God, it is evident the Jews must have understood them in that sense, otherwise they would have immediately disputed his application of them to the subject in question, and have rejected his conclusion by denying the premises." Adam Clarke "To take from the Gentiles a people for his name (labein ex ethnôn laon tôi onomati autou). Bengel calls this egregium paradoxon, a chosen people (laon) out of the Gentiles (ethnôn). [size=14pt]This is what is really involved in what took place at Caesarea at the hands of Peter and the campaign of Barnabas and Paul from Antioch.[/size] But such a claim of God's purpose called for proof from Scripture to convince Jews and this is precisely what James undertakes to give." Robertson Let me stop here but one thing is very certain James never quoted those verses to MEANING THEY ARE WITNESS OF JEHOVAH but that the Gentiles must be INTRODUCED INTO THE CHURCH OF GOD. It must have startled the Judaizers when James called these saved Gentiles "a people for His [God's) name," because for centuries the Jews had carried that honorable title (see Deut 7:6; 14:2; 28:10). The commentaries I quoted above are enough to know the purpose of this thread unless if you deny those commentaries. |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by Emusan(m): 12:33pm On Mar 12, 2015 |
JMAN05: The bolded part especially the underlined is my concern, please how GEN 1:2, Gal 5:22, 2 Peter 1:21 prove Holy spirit to be active force? 2 Corin 3:17 says Jehovah is THE SPIRIT NWT, is Jehovah a force? |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by Nobody: 9:54pm On Mar 13, 2015 |
Emusan: God's holy spirit I said. spirit can refer to a person or to a thing. It is the active force that can move someone to utter such speech of prophesy recorded in God's word. God is not an impersonal force that will do that to more than one individuals. When God's spirit is operative on someone, it produces those qualities. God is a person who do not dwell in a human. Read Gen 1:2 in NWT. |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by johnw74: 1:39am On Mar 14, 2015 |
JMAN05: 2Co_6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jesus + Father = 2 persons mighty god + almighty god = 2 gods |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by Nobody: 6:54am On Mar 14, 2015 |
johnw74: This does not mean that God inhabit in humans. nope. Jesus stated that he Father dwells in the heavens. he said our father in the HEAVEN, not Father in humans these scriptures support that conclusion 2kings 8:13, 27 |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by Nobody: 8:08am On Mar 14, 2015 |
Emusan: Respond to all my points sir. |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by Emusan(m): 9:28am On Mar 14, 2015 |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by Emusan(m): 10:24am On Mar 14, 2015 |
JMAN05: So if we should go by your word according to 2 Corin 3:17 what is THE SPIRIT referring to? A person or a thing. It is the active force that can move someone to utter such speech of prophesy recorded in God's word. God is not an impersonal force that will do that to more than one individuals. Is it the active force the Bible says that move people or Holy spirit? Remember the Bible gave THE ATTRIBUTES of this Holy spirit. I didn't know what you're insinuating in your second statement sha. When God's spirit is operative on someone, it produces those qualities. God is a person who do not dwell in a human. One thing that baffles me most is the way JWs always take meaning of PERSON about God to mean the meaning of person of HUMAN. You people need to read dictionary more to understand what PERSON means and the we refer to God as a person. Read Gen 1:2 in NWT. You reference THREE different verses but you can only quote one which finally be one of the Greek rendering in NT the Greek scholars including the person JWs always misquote his statement (Dr. Bruce) have condemned about NWT. |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by johnw74: 10:31pm On Mar 14, 2015 |
JMAN05: God said He will dwell in believers 2cor 6:16 You said no He wont Bad for you |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by johnw74: 1:06am On Mar 15, 2015 |
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. Joh 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. the Father and the Son dwell in believers the Holy Spirit is God Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. Joh 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. There is the Holy Ghosts name, or one of them (the Comforter) it is even with Capital C meaning noun, meaning name or title. Comforter is certainly a personal attribute. Jesus said He will teach you all things. |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by Nobody: 11:29am On Mar 15, 2015 |
johnw74: The bible doesn't stop there, does it? Check different parts of the bible and see how God's word interprets itself. unless you want to believe what will make you feel good. Your call! Deut 26:15 shows God dwell in the heavens. Try reading that verse in ESV. If you like believe the KJV that said God will "walk in" you. You don become become carpet na, wey ur god go walk on. kai, Jman u don hear am! |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by Nobody: 11:31am On Mar 15, 2015 |
Emusan: Go and segment by segment respond to all my posts. some of what you posted had been answered already there. waiting... |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by Nobody: 11:38am On Mar 15, 2015 |
@All Form another thread for where God dwells and invite me there. We are discussing something different here. As for matt 28:19, I have given answer to that. It is unreasonable moving from one topic to another without tackling any. Emusan, respond to all my posts let's finish what we are here for. |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by Nobody: 12:40pm On Mar 15, 2015 |
johnw74: Jesus is in your holy ghost, and your holy ghost is in Jesus. Why did that place say "another" comforter? Isnt Jesus that holy ghost comforter? Yiu believe too that Jesus is the holy ghost, why send a holy ghost that is already there? Why ask the Father to send, when Jesus is the father? Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. When Jesus died, God and holy ghost died. right? who then raise Jesus? God is in Jesus, yet Jesus doesn't know when the end will come. impeccable! the holy spirit dwells in them, so why send them the ghost that is already in them? Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Why come to them when he is already in them? Joh 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. Finally, the over a thousand disciples of Jesus are Jesus, Jehovah and holy ghost. Oga, you are Jesus, God and holy ghost. Why was the holy spirit sent to the already Jesuses, Gods, and holy spirits. ie his disciples. Why does these disciples ask questions when they are God already? Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. The apostles have the spirit already, why come to make abode. Both Jesus, the Father, your ghost are already living in them. Jesus is dwelling INSIDE the apostles, yet they are asking Jesus questions. theologians! the Father and the Son dwell in believers the apostles had that spirit in them, Jesus also has that spirit, the father is dwelling in the apostles and in Jesus, and the father will send Jesus,himself and the ghost? Or The Father want to overload them with Jesus, ghost, and the Father? There is the Holy Ghosts name, or one of them (the Comforter) it is even with Capital C meaning noun, meaning name or title. You are describing a force, or a breeze, not a person. So his name is comforter, just as Jesus is comforter? So all disciples of Jesus are equal to God, since God dwells in them? Jesus had taught them, and now the same Jesus who is in the holy spirit who is in the disciples will come and teach them? churchoid sef! When the thread is created, we shall talk more there. |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by Nobody: 1:34pm On Mar 15, 2015 |
Emusan: Jah is a spirit being, a spirit person. His holy spirit on the other hand is not a person. it is an impersonal force. Is it the active force the Bible says that move people or Holy spirit? Remember the Bible gave THE ATTRIBUTES of this Holy spirit. -the holy spirit is God's active force. it isn't a person. When it is at work on the prophets, it impels them to predict the future. 2Pet 1:21 One thing that baffles me most is the way JWs always take meaning of PERSON about God to mean the meaning of person of HUMAN. Who is taking it to mean a human? abeg dont start given me another work. Go check what trinitarians mean by "person". Don't create unnecessary work for me. If you don't know your subject, keep mom. You reference THREE different verses but you can only quote one which finally be one of the Greek rendering in NT the Greek scholars including the person JWs always misquote his statement (Dr. Bruce) have condemned about NWT. Oga, it was that rendering in the NWT that I had in mind when I quoted that verse. God's holy spirit is His active force. We talk more on the next thread u guys will create. Don't shift the discussion to Bruce. You can create another thread for renderings in the NWT if you like. |
Re: How Jehovah Witness Called The Faithful Apostles False Christian by johnw74: 12:17am On Mar 16, 2015 |
JMAN05: Unlike you, when God says "I will dwell in you", I believe Him and yes that does feel good. Deut 26:15 shows God dwell in the heavens. He also dwells in believers: Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Don't you read the scriptures I post or don't you believe them Try reading that verse in ESV. If you like believe the KJV that said God will "walk in" you. You don become become carpet na, wey ur god go walk on. kai, Jman u don hear am! You don't understand the poetic language of most Bibles. Even Chrildren would understand this: 2Co_6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. |
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