Nihilist:


Ok now you understand where I'm coming from.

We now both agree that using youth is a huge gamble...

I'm sure you can see where I'm going to go with this...

Is there any one our current youth today that justifies the gamble?

buying anyone is a huge gamble as well. sometimes some big money buys don't work out. with every big risk comes a huge reward.

chelsea need to start investing in youth players or else they would become ac milan after pirlo, seedorf, gattuso, etc all got old & left.

nateevs:



You have not been paying attention obviously. We are no going to win the league. Neither would we win the CL. We will most likely be bundled out of the CL at the first serious hurdle. So no revenue coming in.

We are going to need to spend close to £100m to make this team finish in a decent spot. Amortize £100m over say 5 years' contract for whoever is bought and that alone is already a £20m deficit this season (or not, because it's mid-season purchase but some will be due).

Next year, many will consider even the £100m not enough (especially if Jose is allowed to spend it - you can bet he blows it on only Pogba and Stones) and there will be need for even further spending.

Now imagine the fact that we not have finished in the top four. That means no CL revenue next season. And another £20m amortizaton fee is due, plus whatever we spend more. This is perspective man! Real life football. Not this fantasy you guys are perpetuating! Like. . . We are financially sound without considering the FACTS!


----------------------------------------

And you also need to stop this thing you are doing. You will not find anyone who has asked to fill the squad with young players. Where has this come from even though you have been corrected over and over?

Just to add, nobody would give mega endorsement to a mediocre team.

coogar:


buying anyone is a huge gamble as well. sometimes some big money buys don't work out. with every big risk comes a huge reward.

chelsea need to start investing in youth players or else they would become ac milan after pirlo, seedorf, gattuso, etc all got old & left.

Exactly!! Every team should, not just Chelsea. The rate at which players are being sold now is alarming. Asking for 100 million now for a player is no longer a big deal. Building your own team should be the medium term goal of every club.

Nihilist:

Ok now you understand where I'm coming from.
We now both agree that using youth is a huge gamble...
I'm sure you can see where I'm going to go with this...
Is there any one our current youth today that justifies the gamble?

Not my place but, Solanke He can't do any worse at this point.

Nihilist:


Negro please...

Wickham is their 1st choice striker who has now been injured.

Sako came in at 10 when Bolasie's father died.

Gayle got the red card at Westham and has always been 3rd choice.

"We've really missed Connor, we've lost him since we beat Chelsea, and I think his presence through the middle has been a factor in us not getting more points than we've got,' said Pardew just before the Liverpool game.

Anyway, back to Bamford. If as you say, Bamford is not quick, and he's not strong, then what is it he's good for?

Look at what Pardew said about Bamford.

"I spoke to him when he first came to the football club. I said: 'You have to understand that although Middlesbrough is a high level, coming into the Premier League with this team is an even higher level. So you're going to have to work hard at it.'

"Like all young players, they sometimes have to add something to their game to get over that final hurdle. We're a good side – we've proved that. OK, our last results in the last three haven't been what we wanted but the performance level has been there, apart from the Man City game. It's a tough team for him to get in to."


Note that Bamford is being referred to as a 'young player'

Wickham and Bamford are both 22.

Aiite, you're correct.

However it's nothing to do with talent.

Bamford is more Crespo than Drogba. You don't need to be super fast or super strong to be a good striker. However Palace's tactical system demands you are one or the other, preferrably both.

Bamford has above average strength and slightly above average pace. His strength is in poaching and combination play.

That's just the tactics, never mind the politics of favouring your own assets over other clubs assets.

Wickham should tell us how many goals he scored at Championship level so we can compare them adequately.

coogar:


buying anyone is a huge gamble as well. sometimes some big money buys don't work out. with every big risk comes a huge reward.

chelsea need to start investing in youth players or else they would become ac milan after pirlo, seedorf, gattuso, etc all got old & left.

Chelsea are not NOT investing in youth

Hazard was 21 when he signed. Oscar was 21 as well. Courtois was 19. Zouma is 19 now. Azpi was 22 when he signed. Rahman is 21.

The youth we're talking about here is academy produced. My opinion is that we haven't produced any youth yet of sufficient quality to warrant a persistent place in the first team. The question is should we field the substandard products just for the sake of ideals?

Ibime:


Aiite, you're correct.

However it's nothing to do with talent.

Bamford is more Crespo than Drogba. You don't need to be super fast or super strong to be a good striker. However Palace's tactical system demands you are one or the other, preferrably both.

Bamford has above average strength and slightly above average pace. His strength is in poaching and combination play.

That's just the tactics, never mind the politics of favouring your own assets over other clubs assets.

Wickham should tell us how many goals he scored at Championship level so we can compare them adequately.

That's exactly the point!

Wickham has been practically useless in the 3-4 years he has spent so far in the EPL...yet Bamford can't displace him at Palace.

Would a manager cut his nose to spite his face? Would a manager leave Bamford on the bench if he was a better talent? Read Pardew's statement again....even when the team were struggling to score, Bamford was still not an option.

Says a lot bro

Youth players are good, they are young and still motivated to do more......

They want to develop more and so they put more efforts....

Football is not always about fielding money-bought players, players grommed can be healthy to the team later.....

Besides, why is there an academy?, thought its for grooming/training future good footballers for use or sale.....

Nihilist:


Chelsea are not NOT investing in youth

Hazard was 21 when he signed. Oscar was 21 as well. Courtois was 19. Zouma is 19 now. Azpi was 22 when he signed. Rahman is 21.

when they signed is irrelevant....
perhaps that was why chelsea never hovered below the top 4 back then. the situation is quite different today. all those players have aged and they are creaking.

The youth we're talking about here is academy produced. My opinion is that we haven't produced any youth yet of sufficient quality to warrant a persistent place in the first team.

yes you have youth players with sufficient quality but jose has refused to play them even in the games chelsea were coasting. using the same set of players over and over last season accelerated the decline of many of your key players.

The question is should we field the substandard products just for the sake of ideals?

you have to give them a chance.
united would never have known about lingard, mcnair, blackett, etc if we didn't put them to the acid test to see how weighty they are. that is the point nateevs is trying to make.....

nateevs:


You have not been paying attention obviously. We are no going to win the league. Neither would we win the CL. We will most likely be bundled out of the CL at the first serious hurdle. So no revenue coming in.

We are going to need to spend close to £100m to make this team finish in a decent spot. Amortize £100m over say 5 years' contract for whoever is bought and that alone is already a £20m deficit this season (or not, because it's mid-season purchase but some will be due).

Next year, many will consider even the £100m not enough (especially if Jose is allowed to spend it - you can bet he blows it on only Pogba and Stones) and there will be need for even further spending.

Now imagine the fact that we not have finished in the top four. That means no CL revenue next season. And another £20m amortizaton fee is due, plus whatever we spend more. This is perspective man! Real life football. Not this fantasy you guys are perpetuating! Like. . . We are financially sound without considering the FACTS!

Good thinking sire but too many Ifs.

coogar:


buying anyone is a huge gamble as well. sometimes some big money buys don't work out. with every big risk comes a huge reward.

chelsea need to start investing in youth players or else they would become ac milan after pirlo, seedorf, gattuso, etc all got old & left.

Even tho i couuld care less abt wat happens to Chelsea, u made a point here.

United almost fell into this trap after Scholes, Ferdinand, Vidic, Giggs all aged and retired. But somehow we survived.

when they signed is irrelevant....
perhaps that was why chelsea never hovered below the top 4 back then. the situation is quite different today. all those players have aged and they are creaking.

Which players have aged?
Hazard is the oldest on that list and he is just 25

coogar:

you have to give them a chance.
united would never have known about lingard, mcnair, blackett, etc if we didn't put them to the acid test to see how weighty they are. that is the point nateevs is trying to make.....

lol and Blackett and Mcnair were subsequently seen to be lacking in the required quality.

So much so that a midfielder is moonlighting at centreback for manyoo now.

Blackett especially was a different type of shyte entirely

Nihilist:


That's exactly the point!

Wickham has been practically useless in the 3-4 years he has spent so far in the EPL...yet Bamford can't displace him at Palace.

Would a manager cut his nose to spite his face? Would a manager leave Bamford on the bench if he was a better talent? Read Pardew's statement again....even when the team were struggling to score, Bamford was still not an option.

Says a lot bro

Wickham is far from useless.

I'm sure you know about the Cameron Jerome effect.

It is the same Drogba effect that saw Chelsea winning record 95 points total in 04/05 even though he only scored 10 league goals.

Ninja, strong and mobile hold up play is super effective for Counterattacking football even if the forward is not scoring.

His job is simply to win the long ball and hold the ball up as long as it takes for Bolasie, Zaha and Puncheon to join the attack. It's a deadly phucking weapon.

The aim is for him to be those niggas what Drogba was to Lampard. Bamford cannot provide that.

AdeLaNa1:
Even tho i couuld care less abt wat happens to Chelsea, u made a point here.

United almost fell into this trap after Scholes, Ferdinand, Vidic, Giggs all aged and retired. But somehow we survived.

we finished 7th.....
we actually died but a new-improved woodward brought us back to life.

Nihilist:

Which players have aged?
Hazard is the oldest on that list and he is just 25

you have terry(34), ivanovic(31), cahill(29), falcao(29), remi, ramires, mikel, cesc, pedro, begovic all locked at 28 years of age. that's 80% of your senior team in the OAP range already. why won't they be slow on the pitch?

lol and Blackett and Mcnair were subsequently seen to be lacking in the required quality.
So much so that a midfielder is moonlighting at centreback for manyoo now.
Blackett especially was a different type of shyte entirely

mcnair got injured....
blackett failed the acid test & he was summarily sent out on loan. however, without the acid test, we would never have known.

what do you prefer?
not to test at all & never learn the truth or put them to the test and learn the truth? i prefer the latter every day of the week.

AdeLaNa1:
Even tho i couuld care less abt wat happens to Chelsea, u made a point here.

United almost fell into this trap after Scholes, Ferdinand, Vidic, Giggs all aged and retired. But somehow we survived.

Minus Lingard...what academy produced player sits in your first team?

One fears that even Lingaard is only being used to teach Depay a lesson

coogar:


we finished 7th.....
we actually died but a new-improved woodward bought us back to life.

Fixed

Ibime:


Wickham is far from useless.

I'm sure you know about the Cameron Jerome effect.

It is the same Drogba effect that saw Chelsea winning record 95 points total in 04/05 even though he only scored 10 league goals.

Ninja, strong and mobile hold up play is super effective for Counterattacking football even if the forward is not scoring.

His job is simply to win the long ball and hold the ball up as long as it takes for Bolasie, Zaha and Puncheon to join the attack. It's a deadly phucking weapon.

Depends on how you look at it.

Wickham was so useless up front, that he was moved to the flank to play as a winger for Sunderland. That was where he found some form for them. Unless maybe he was a holding up play winger

I jest

Nihilist:


Depends on how you look at it.

Wickham was so useless up front, that he was moved to the flank to play as a winger for Sunderland. That was where he found some form for them. Unless maybe he was a holding up play winger

I jest

That even shows versatility as far as I'm concerned.

His physical capacity for hold-up play is unquestionable.

The fact he functioned as a winger only means he has developed more fluid skills to go with his brutish strength.

Chestar5:
Youth players are good, they are young and still motivated to do more......

They want to develop more and so they put more efforts....

Football is not always about fielding money-bought players, players grommed can be healthy to the team later.....

Besides, why is there an academy?, thought its for grooming/training future good footballers for use or sale.....

Chelsea r so much attuned to winning trophies so much that they dread the possibility of not winning cups. because they started winning major trophies when the moneyman came. All these academy boys presently in chelsea came as a result of the moneyman's decision not to spend too much again. Now it has backfired. You cannot excel in what u r not good at. The season chelsea stops buying big is the season they stop being serious contenders for trophies. Same goes for mancity...

Nihilist:


Minus Lingard...what academy produced player sits in your first team?

One fears that even Lingaard is only being used to teach Depay a lesson

Errm McNair, Perreira(injured), Wilson, and dat RB that played vs West Brom. And they dont play quite as often bcoz United cant keep playing them in the EPL while we are trying to catch up wit Arsenal and City.

United ve always given academy players playing opportunities more than Chelsea if thats wat u're driving at

Nihilist:


Minus Lingard...what academy produced player sits in your first team?

One fears that even Lingaard is only being used to teach Depay a lesson

wilson...
And jackson...


Not forgeting mcnair ...
And perreira

Nihilist:


Fixed

which yeye bought?
do you know the number of players that left since SAF retired? it was a massive clear-out, it's only fair that those players would be replaced.

The youth we're talking about here is academy produced. My opinion is that we haven't produced any youth yet of sufficient quality to warrant a persistent place in the first team. The question is should we field the substandard products just for the sake of ideals?

this is exactly what most chelsea faithfulls are having trouble coming to terms with


This is never the right situation to throw them into the mix
Not until at the club is back on its feet again

AdeLaNa1:
Errm McNair, Perreira(injured), Wilson, and dat RB that played vs West Brom. And they dont play quite as often bcoz United cant keep playing them in the EPL while we are trying to catch up wit Arsenal and City.

Mcnair, Wilson and Cameron Bothwick have both come in as subs in 1 EPL game each. Perreira hasn't even played a league game this season.


None of them are in the 1st team

United ve always given academy players playing opportunities more than Chelsea if thats wat u're driving at

That is not what I'm driving at.

Nihilist:

Mcnair, Wilson and Cameron Bothwick have both come in as subs in 1 EPL game each. Perreira hasn't even played a league game this season.


None of them are in the 1st team

this season only just started. how many league games did mcnair, wilson & blackett start last season?

PietroRico:
this is exactly what most chelsea faithfulls are having trouble coming to terms with


This is never the right situation to throw them into the mix
Not until at the club is back on its feet again

CFC was standing with the best of them,they never gave youth a chance.
I think some of the youngster should start getting minutes.

coogar:


this season only just started. how many league games did mcnair, wilson & blackett start last season?

None of those boys will get up to 10 league starts this season, that is guaranteed

SIRcumalot:

CFC was standing with the best of them,they never gave youth a chance.
I think some of the youngster should start getting minutes.

yea sure, there has been opportunities in the past and the club may not have utilised it, but anybody wanting Solanke to come on when they need a goal and Costa is misfiring is just being funny.. . In other words, the situation is too chaotic for that risk
They will crumble under the pressure

Nihilist:


Mcnair, Wilson and Cameron Bothwick have both come in as subs in 1 EPL game each. Perreira hasn't even played a league game this season.


None of them are in the 1st team



That is not what I'm driving at.

And we've played them more in the league cup. Besides, the season is just 11 games old. There's still plenry of time for them to get enough game time.

We cant just field them every time I n every match. Especially wen City and Arsenal are still ahead of us.

How many of the other regular Top 4 teams have given their academy products game time this season like United??

Nihilist:


None of those boys will get up to 10 league starts this season, that is guaranteed

LVG loves mcnair....
when he comes back from injury, he would get 10+ games. he's a bloody good defender!

AdeLaNa1:
And we've played them more in the league cup. Besides, the season is just 11 games old. There's still plenry of time for them to get enough game time.

We cant just field them every time I n every match. Especially wen City and Arsenal are still ahead of us.

How many of the other regular Top 4 teams have given their academy products game time this season like United??

If you don't understand the argument, please stay on the sideline and don't get involved.

It was already agreed by all parties since last week that are at the top or close to the top at offering chances to youth.

The question I asked was "how many academy products are currently in manyoo's first team?". The answer is 1.

This is the kind of decent debate we have always had on Chelsea thread, not those nonsense my dyck is bigger than yours arguments.

Take note, those that like to go to other threads and drag scum back with them to disturb us here:

Chelseafan1
Airmark
Hensben
Mourinholic